Charters, Group Sailings, etc more common with Celebrity?

[clojacks]

As the OP, I appreciate the dialogue this question has created. Those of us who have been affected by having a booked cruise disappear temporarily or even having one actually booked out to a Charter or large group obviously have a strong opinion in a negative way regarding how Celebrity handles this. Those who have not been affected or may even understand the financials behind Chartering a full cruise at the disadvantage to those who had booked it as private general public cruisers may see it as a good "business" practice on Celebrity's part.

 

My personal opinion, which should be pretty obvious if you read the entire thread this far, is it is a pretty crappy way to treat "valued" customers. Or, maybe Celebrity doesn't see us that way.

 

Anyway, my original post still has not really been answered, and that questions is, is Celebrity the leader in doing this? I understand other lines (HAL has been mentioned) also are doing it, but on the basis of Celebrity having fewer ships and often more desirable itineraries, is anyone affected as much as Celebrity cruisers?

[Host Jazzbeau]

As the OP, I appreciate the dialogue this question has created. Those of us who have been affected by having a booked cruise disappear temporarily or even having one actually booked out to a Charter or large group obviously have a strong opinion in a negative way regarding how Celebrity handles this. Those who have not been affected or may even understand the financials behind Chartering a full cruise at the disadvantage to those who had booked it as private general public cruisers may see it as a good "business" practice on Celebrity's part.

 

My personal opinion, which should be pretty obvious if you read the entire thread this far, is it is a pretty crappy way to treat "valued" customers. Or, maybe Celebrity doesn't see us that way.

 

Anyway, my original post still has not really been answered, and that questions is, is Celebrity the leader in doing this? I understand other lines (HAL has been mentioned) also are doing it, but on the basis of Celebrity having fewer ships and often more desirable itineraries, is anyone affected as much as Celebrity cruisers?

 

I don't think anyone has that data. Most of what I have seen is anecdotal, which can only confirm that "everybody does it," not how often -- or how well they treat their affected customers. There is one line that has impacted more cruisers more often: Celebrity's sister line Azamara. Since they only have 2 ships, a single charter affects a large % of their total annual berths. And since their ships are small, it is easy for a group to charter the whole ship. The result lately has been a lot of charters and a lot of unhappy customers.

[kitty9]

You are wrong. I know nothing about running a cruise line. But, I do know about the proper way to treat customers.

I will agree to disagree with you on this point. And end my participation in this discussion as It appears that you are on the verge of making it personal.

Barry

 

My travel agent books many partial and full charter cruises. He told me that cruise lines love these bookings for a number of reasons, but mostly because these groups spend a lot of money on board. When there's a full charter, the cruise line doesn't offer perks, so everyone on board will be spending lots on booze and many times, the casino is packed. I lost a booked cruise because one of the largest agencies that handle gay charters booked the entire ship. My TA said that full charters make the cruise line a whole lot of money, a lot more than they make from just regular cruisers who come on board with all their perks and OBC.

 

Clojacks, if you find that website I mentioned a few posts back, and you see how many charters, both full and partial, that list Celebrity as the cruise line, you'd see that X has many more of these groups than any other line.

Edited May 13, 2016 by kitty9

[Redtravel]

On recent cruises there were big affinity groups. In January on the Summit, we sailed with a group of U. of Indiana dentists. They were such a large group that they had several private functions closing down sections of the ship. They were very nice quiet group of mainly older people. Last week on the Summit there was a group of motorcycle riders. Also, a very nice group. They stored their bikes on deck one. It was a gorgeous array of bikes. Earlier this year I wanted to book Summit for next winter b2b like I had done last winter. No cruises were showing. I did a search and found a Jazz cruise with excellent entertainment. Looked good until I saw the fares. The fares were outrageously high. I don't blame Celebrity for chartering out or selling to affinity groups. They make a lot of money. However, booking people and then canceling the bookings later is not good business. Charter out and never offer the sailing to individual cruisers. That way everyone is happy. Several years ago I booked Horizon and was later canceled. I was told that the ship was being repaired that week. I then booked the same week cruise on a Costa ship. When we got to the ship in San Juan, we were docked next to the Horizon. It was chartered out to Northern Telecom.

[Host Jazzbeau]

...I don't blame Celebrity for chartering out or selling to affinity groups. They make a lot of money. However, booking people and then canceling the bookings later is not good business. Charter out and never offer the sailing to individual cruisers. That way everyone is happy...

 

As you noted, the charters make more money for the cruise line. Therefore it's a buyer's market: when the charter group is ready, the cruise line has to clear the ship. Celebrity doesn't get to set the cut-off date or they would lose the business. But we individual cruisers want the schedules to come out sooner and sooner, so people will get bumped. As long as they do it before 331 days out, people shouldn't have a financial loss. Note: I don't discount the emotional loss -- I'm a planner and I get invested in my plans so I would be upset if the rug were pulled out from under me; but I understand enough of the business to know why it happens and will keep happening.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Host Jazzbeau

[VivianK]

As you noted, the charters make more money for the cruise line. Therefore it's a buyer's market: when the charter group is ready, the cruise line has to clear the ship. Celebrity doesn't get to set the cut-off date or they would lose the business. But we individual cruisers want the schedules to come out sooner and sooner, so people will get bumped. As long as they do it before 331 days out, people shouldn't have a financial loss. Note: I don't discount the emotional loss -- I'm a planner and I get invested in my plans so I would be upset if the rug were pulled out from under me; but I understand enough of the business to know why it happens and will keep happening.

 

I agree except if you need to wave "pre-existing conditions" one is required to book insurance within 21 days of the initial deposit which is what we did...back in January. If you wait to book insurance and you have an issue with something that you have ongoing, you will not be covered. In addition, some people are working within certain dates and obligations. For them it's very frustrating. There's no great solution to this problem.

[VivianK]

Uh-oh! misspelled "waive"

[Host Jazzbeau]

I agree except if you need to wave "pre-existing conditions" one is required to book insurance within 21 days of the initial deposit which is what we did...back in January. If you wait to book insurance and you have an issue with something that you have ongoing, you will not be covered. In addition, some people are working within certain dates and obligations. For them it's very frustrating. There's no great solution to this problem.

 

In these circumstances many policies let you roll the coverage over to your next vacation. Also my TA has access to a policy that gives me "pre-existing" coverage at final payment.

[VivianK]

Sounds interesting, Jazzbeau. Would you please let me know the name of the insurance company that your TA uses. The one I use (if you purchase at final payment )will cover pre-existing beginning when you leave your home, but that is only if everything has been "stable" for 60 days prior. It would be great if we didn't have to insure every time at deposit!!

[Host Jazzbeau]

Sounds interesting, Jazzbeau. Would you please let me know the name of the insurance company that your TA uses. The one I use (if you purchase at final payment )will cover pre-existing beginning when you leave your home, but that is only if everything has been "stable" for 60 days prior. It would be great if we didn't have to insure every time at deposit!!

 

The insurer is Allianz, but my TA says this policy is only available through her group. The only requirement is that you be medically able to travel on the day you purchase the insurance policy. But you would have to book the trip through my TA.

[BaKruiser]

We booked back to back cruises on the Equinox for Aug 2017. We had friends that wanted to join but couldn't find the cruises. We called X and was told it was now a charter. They said someone would be in touch with us. We feel burned as we booked on board in Jan and we really liked the ports and the fact we could do back to back with overnight in Barcelona.

[villauk]

We booked back to back cruises on the Equinox for Aug 2017. We had friends that wanted to join but couldn't find the cruises. We called X and was told it was now a charter. They said someone would be in touch with us. We feel burned as we booked on board in Jan and we really liked the ports and the fact we could do back to back with overnight in Barcelona.

 

August on Equinox appears to be an annual charter with Atlantis. It's happened over the last few years ;). Made me hold out booking for next year when the new cruises were released, even though we really liked one of the Equinox itineraries....and then it disappeared ;).

[Goodtime Cruizin]

Perhaps I'm not seeing the issue. You're booked on a B2B and Celebrity has NOT contacted you to cancel one of and/or both of the cruises. I'd say you're going to cruise.

[clojacks]

Perhaps I'm not seeing the issue. You're booked on a B2B and Celebrity has NOT contacted you to cancel one of and/or both of the cruises. I'd say you're going to cruise.

 

I'm not sure who you're directing your comment at, but another post on the board shows that the cruise that we are on, on a back-to-back has been cancelled. And by cancelled, I mean chartered! We haven't heard anything directly from our TA yet, but I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the poster who said that he had heard from celebrity that it was cancelled. I'd say that that is an issue.

Edited May 18, 2016 by clojacks

[NYDee]

I just Googled "Celebrity theme cruises 2017." A website appeared with lists of ships with theme cruises. I quit counting at 25 for Celebrity! Most are life style. Sorry I didn't get the URL

[NYDee]

The website is Theme Cruises - Alternative Life Style.

[VivianK]

Jazzbeau,thanks for the info on insurance company.

[Flamencacha]

We were cancelled by Celeb sev times.. over the yrs,...last time we were left dangling for quite awhile before switching ..and awhile later the orig cruise was in fact cancelled

 

 

 

Princess also cancelled us...said redeployment issues....but it was far in advance so we booked back on Celeb...which by then added Pacific Coastals

 

 

 

After awhile you learn the groups that charter and the ships and weeks they prefer but at this point we only take refundable air and hotels...les stress..b/c u never can be sure!

 

 

 

Good luck...

 

 

 

I wasn't aware this could happen or better yet I didn't expect it.

 

I have a holiday cruise this year and have paid air hotels etc. all non refundable. If celebrity were to cancel I would make it a road trip, and yes never ever book with them in advance.

Maybe never again, they never have a single supplement reduction, and a cancellation would be icing on the cake.

[xmarksx]

I just Googled "Celebrity theme cruises 2017." A website appeared with lists of ships with theme cruises. I quit counting at 25 for Celebrity! Most are life style. Sorry I didn't get the URL

 

I did the same thing when I was trying to figure out why I couldn't book a particular ship in January, themecruisefinder but it's not that comprehensive.

 

Clojacks, you can also run a search for the ship and add search term, Reflection 80's cruise, Reflection Jazz cruise, Blues, swingers...

[BaKruiser]

Ok. I posted that we were bumped and burned. The problem is that X has not notified us officially of the charter. I did call them and was told it was an Atlantis charter. They specialize in gay and lesbian cruises. A quick visit to their web site is Illuminating. I talked to my TA. Today and they were going to see what X would offer us for the inconvenience. She said she had that happen to her on a Norwegian ship in Nov. I asked her what they did for her and she said a little ship credit, not much. They are waiting on X to respond to them about the cancellation. Does anyone have cruise cancellation experience?

[Goodtime Cruizin]

I'm not sure who you're directing your comment at, but another post on the board shows that the cruise that we are on, on a back-to-back has been cancelled. And by cancelled, I mean chartered! We haven't heard anything directly from our TA yet, but I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the poster who said that he had heard from celebrity that it was cancelled. I'd say that that is an issue.

 

If the cruise has indeed been cancelled and you have not heard from your TA, you also, IMO, have a TA issue. But that's another issue. I can only speak for RCL experience, but last fall,we had a nice cruise on the Indy. Like your cruise, we booked well in advance. Also like your cruise, there was a charter on this cruise. It was AquaFest if I recall correctly. An annual LGBT Halloween sailing that moves from ship to ship yearly. Anyway, it was discussed in depth on the Roll Call and many feared the potential of RCL canceling the cruise and chartering the entire ship. Some even canceled. Most did not and we did not as well. It was a 'partial' charter or group cruise. The cruise went off w/o a hitch. It turned out that the ship had several large groups. AquaFest, a group of families and kids w/ Autism, our TA had a large group of 250+, and then there was a large singles group as well. My point is, if you haven't heard from the cruise line direct, it may very well not be chartered. If your TA has not been informed, then I doubt it is canceled.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Even if it's a large group on board, you should try to find out which group. Not because of who they are, but because of what activities they may scheduled that affect you by reducing your use of the ship. The worst I heard of was an American Girl Dolls group, where every girl reserved an extra chair for her doll :eek:

[Hlitner]

Ok, so we will respond to the OP's specific question. Yes, all the mass market cruise lines routinely screw folks to accommodate large groups and full charters. This has recently been an area of complaint about HAL...and we have had personal experience with RCI doing the same thing. But now that we are retired and take much longer cruises (generally 14 - 60 days) it is no longer an issue. Groups and charters are generally for 7 day cruises (or shorter).

 

So what to do? Personally, if we were booking a shorter cruise (less than 14 days) we would not consider doing the booking until about 6 months prior to the cruise (even closer if we have the flexibility). Most large group or charter deals are completed at least 8 months before a cruise (although we have seen at least one exception). Otherwise, if you choose to book shorter cruises far in advance....you take your chances. And we should mention that the mass market lines do everything in their power to hide large group bookings...from the general public. So before you book any short cruise....you might want to Google the cruise and date just to see if any Group pops up.

 

Hank

[Cruise Raider]

This post has been enlightening so far .... I had no idea this was commonplace.

 

We were booked on an Alaskan cruise, which was supposed to be a B2B with a Panama Canal cruise on the Infinity last year. They ended up cancelling our Alaska cruise in lieu of chartering the ship out for 5 nights to Salesforce. So, the cruise we originally booked was changed from a 14 night itinerary to Alaska to a 9 night Pacific Coastal ... still in and out of San Francisco.

Fellow passengers on my roll call knew about this before there was even a hint of it in the air. Well, I decided to take the 9 night Pacific Coastal and ended up canceling the Panama Canal cruise as now it wasn't a B2B ... I would have to go home for 5 days in between cruises and it just wasn't the same as staying onboard.

 

So, for those that asked -- we weren't notified officially by Celebrity until a couple of months after someone on the roll call already alerted us that this was a possibility. Celebrity reps, at least the ones we would talk to, don't really know what's going on or maybe not allowed to say. They don't want to notify everyone that is already booked until they have those signed contracts for the charter in hand. I understand this way of thinking but guess it doesn't make it easier for the folks that are going to be bumped.

 

I got the call and they offered us the following:

 

- They gave us an option of about 5 alternate cruises of approx. the same length and pricing. We would be assigned to the same room category for the same price we were quoted for the Alaska itinerary.

- We could keep all the perks that we were promised with the original itinerary provided we booked one of these cruises in the same or better category

- We would be given $200 onboard credit for the trouble, whether we booked one of the alternate cruises that were offered or any other itinerary that Celebrity offered. We only had like 30 days to make our decision on which cruise to take. I could be wrong on the time frame ... I know it wasn't very long. If one simply canceled, the $200 was forfeited.

- We were offered a full refund if we were to cancel. No consideration was given for those that already booked non-refundable airfare or other travel expenses. The cruise was canceled several months before we were to set sail.

 

We were interested in the 9 day Pacific Coastal out of San Francisco -- however, the pricing was listed for the same amount as the 14 night Alaska cruise. Well, knowing this would never really fly, we ended up booking it so we could keep our perks from the Alaska cruise and hope for price drops as it drew closer. This worked out for us as there were steep price reductions the closer it got to sail date. Because we were able to be flexible (we live quite close to SF and have been to Alaska many times), we ended up with a ton of perks, a great price on our cruise and ended up having a most fantastic cruise. However, there were many people from the roll call that were so angry they did end up just canceling....as far as I know, only one other couple from our roll call actually chose the Pacific Coastal cruise. I think there were some that purchased airfare and no consideration was given for this. Plus, there were no hotels to be found in the city for after the cruise as Salesforce also had those all tied up. While we scored big time and sailed on one of the best cruises of all times, others did not and I completely understand their frustration.

 

So, I tend to agree with the person that stated that the compensation wasn't particularly generous. Most of it came in the form of letting you keep the perks you were quoted on your original sailing.

I had no idea that Celebrity did this on a regular basis so I guess I will be booking my air with Southwest, as they don't charge any change fees ... and only book refundable hotels and tours.

[clojacks]

Here's what we were offered...

 

$200 OBC IF we rebooked one of the 2 cruises that Celebrity offered if by May 31! Yes, they only selected 2 that would apply!

 

The way I read the notice from them, the $200 is ONLY good on the 2 they offered, not on any other booking made within that time frame, but after reading your offers, I am going to check.

 

And, we can keep the perks we booked under, IF we select one of those 2 cruises, but if we rebook something more attractive to us, we rebook under the promo in affect now, not when we originally booked.

Edited May 20, 2016 by clojacks