10/22 Oosterdam Dining Change - No, I'm not kidding...

sail7seas · October 20, 2005

Just got off the phone with Ship Services and it's true. So, we now have three verifications of the dining change on the Oosterdam.

What the rep told me (and who knows how accurate this is), is that they are going to try it for the 10/22 sailing and see what the pax response to it is. The HAL General Manager is going to be on board and will be having a discussion about the dining time with pax to get direct feedback about the dining change. If the feedback is negative, they will go back to the four traditional dining times.

Good thing we have a bunch of CC'ers on this cruise. I'm just sorry that you guys got screwed so badly. :(

Curious......Who is HAL's General Manager who is going to be aboard? You mean President? CEO? I'm trying to figure out General Manager of What? Making Passengers miserable?

How would a telephone rep know this?

I

ahoymatey3 · October 20, 2005

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

gizmo · October 20, 2005

Stanford's Girl,

Since you will be on this cruise here is a thought. Get something printed up and get as many people as possible to sign it.

I doubt you will have problems finding people who dislike it.

ahoymatey3 · October 20, 2005

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

Now that I've had my temper tantrum, I want to say I just can't understand why all the cruiselines want to copy each other.

If one jumped off a bridge would all of them?

Krazy Kruizers · October 20, 2005

As I mentioned earlier, I can see that there is the possibilty that the Captain's Welcome Aboard party and a few other things may be gone.

All those nice little touches were reasons why we chose HAL.

While DH and I were dining out for lunch today, we discussed this new "TEST" extensively.

If this really does happen fleet wide, then we think that we will be lloking to other cruise lines like Crystal. We have a lot of cruises already booked for 2006 - but those plans can change.

Grumpy1 · October 20, 2005

Curious......Who is HAL's General Manager who is going to be aboard? You mean President? CEO? I'm trying to figure out General Manager of What? Making Passengers miserable?
How would a telephone rep know this?

If it is anyone lower in executive status than Johan Groothuizen

Vice President, Marine Hotel Operations, then it will be an underling with little authority to do anything other than collect data and report back, IMO.

Nautical Wheeler · October 20, 2005

I am totally at a loss for words on this one........................and quite honestly I don't think the words I have in mind are allowed on the boards.

How can HAL be so blankety blank inconsiderate of it's passengers. To pull a fast one like this at the last minute is #$%^&. Changes like this should be planned in advance and advertised so that passengers can decide if they want to participate in these TESTS! Of course no one would ...forseeing the problems ...and HAL would have an empty ship. Unless of course they compensated the passengers monitarily for agreeing to be guinea pigs. Changes due to weather or other unforseen emergencies are understandable but this is just pure @#$%$^%.:mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm not looking forward to the confusion and aggravation this is going to bring to our dining time. Ironically our only negative concerning our cruise on the O last year was in reference to the dining room. Our service last year on the O was borderline so God knows what we have to look forward to this year. Some nights we waited 45 minutes for the wine steward to bring our pre-ordered wines. Meanwhile the waiter was rushing us through our meal. Nothing like having your bottle of wine for dessert!!! I should hope he would be able to find us at all this year.

Maybe we will order huge elaborate meals from room service and demand that it be set up on our patio with linens et.al. as in the dining room.

Geeze.......guess I wasn't so speechless afterall. Wish I could say this ranting has made me feel better.:(

wrp96 · October 20, 2005

Now that I've had my temper tantrum, I want to say I just can't understand why all the cruiselines want to copy each other.

If one jumped off a bridge would all of them?

I have the same feeling. A few months ago, there was a thread on the RCI board asking if we wanted RCI to have freestyle dining. A great majority of us said no. Several people came on and accused us of being selfish because they wanted to be able to cruise RCI but they would only cruise with freestyle so they couldn't. My thoughts with that is that if you want freestyle dining you have the option of choosing NCL or Princess. Why should those of us who only want traditional dining not have a choice between cruise lines as well?

I had considered trying HAL in the future but if they go to a "freestyle" dining option, then they definitely won't be on my list.

LoveLifeAtSea · October 20, 2005

I've been following this thread from the moment it started and I, who usually don't let things bother me so much anymore, have been feeling angry, disbelief, extremely disappointed, etc. Especially, on the heels of the existing problem on the Oosterdam this week. However, the one emotion that I have yet to deal with is acceptance.

But, at this point, as it appears to be 'fact' that HAL is testing this concept as verifed by 3 posters, what I am really wondering is WHY? And, WHO is behind it? And, WHAT are they really trying to accomplish? And, finally, WHO are they looking for in their future as their primary passenger base?

Is it HAL's idea or Carnival's? Is it because HAL is losing big bucks to Princess and similar lines? Are they losing revenue or is it just that they are not making as much as they forecasted? Is it just greed for more, at any cost? Are they concentrating on attracting the new, younger generation of family cruisers? Do they factor in that they could very well lose a lot of their repeat business from their major loyalists?

We all know changes are made for a reason. So, WHAT IS THE REASON HAL???

Maybe if they were to try and explain a few things, then maybe some of us might cool down and give it a chance. Somehow, I don't think it has anything to do with keeping their repeat passengers happy.

I also have a hard time believing that they are testing this concept based on passenger comment cards.

BTW, KAKcruiser ... it crossed my mind, too, if this has anything to do with this weeks problem on the Oosterdam. 'IF' it does, then their approach to resolving one problem is only creating another.

Iggipolka · October 20, 2005

Curious......Who is HAL's General Manager who is going to be aboard?

I don't know which GM is going to be on board the ship. I should have gotten a name, but I was so aggrivated that I didn't think about that at the time.

kryos · October 20, 2005

I also have a hard time believing that they are testing this concept based on passenger comment cards.

Believe it. I can't believe any business in operation to make money would do something like this if they did not receive feedback from their passengers that they were looking for an "anytime dining" option.

I've said the same thing in relation to dress codes ... when people have complained on this board that folks are being allowed into the dining room on formal nights not quite dressed formally. Seattle calls the shots. If the passenger comment cards are more and more reading ... "why all the strict dress code crap?" then Seattle is gonna tell the shipboard management ... "ease up a bit" ... in order to keep the passengers happy.

If HAL is experimenting with a "leisure time" dining concept, then they are most likely doing so because other lines have done it, and HAL passengers are asking why they have to eat at a certain time/certain table every night of their cruise. If the concept falls flat on its face, then HAL will abandon it.

The only thing I say, though ... is if dress codes are going to be relaxed in anytime dining ... then HAL is gonna have to change their policy of designating the dress code as being in effect for the entire night ... throughout the public decks of the ship. Let's face it ... if people know they can go to anytime dining dressed casually on what would otherwise be a formal night, then they are dammed sure not going to be willing to go back to their cabins and get all dressed up just to be able to enjoy the show or sit on one of the lounges.

Blue skies ...

--rita

RevNeal · October 20, 2005

What the rep told me (and who knows how accurate this is), is that they are going to try it for the 10/22 sailing and see what the pax response to it is. The HAL General Manager is going to be on board and will be having a discussion about the dining time with pax to get direct feedback about the dining change. If the feedback is negative, they will go back to the four traditional dining times.

Boy, what I wouldn't give to be on this coming cruise of the Oosterdam so I can give this GM a piece of my mind. :) hehehe

That should be an INTERESTING meeting, to say the least!!!!! :D

RuthC · October 20, 2005

:mad: :mad: Right now I'm so angry I could spit tacks.:mad: :mad:

If this is the way HAL wants to head in to the future they will have to do it without me, for I will continue to sail, dine at a later hour, and sit at a fixed table with the same companions every night.

How terrible of them---for two weeks in a row!---to upset the dining plans of a large contingent of paying passengers. And not let the word out in advance! Is this the way to treat a "guest"? :confused:

RevNeal · October 20, 2005

If HAL is experimenting with a "leisure time" dining concept, then they are most likely doing so because other lines have done it, and HAL passengers are asking why they have to eat at a certain time/certain table every night of their cruise. If the concept falls flat on its face, then HAL will abandon it.

It may well be that Herr Kruse used to be with Princess ... and what he really wants to do make HAL into a Princess Clone. We're using Princes' superior booking system, let's use Princess' dining system too! Yeah!!!!! </Sarcasem

STOP with the stupid pills, Seattle!!!!!!

QUIT trying to change HAL into something it's not.

RevNeal · October 20, 2005

How terrible of them---for two weeks in a row!---to upset the dining plans of a large contingent of paying passengers. And not let the word out in advance! Is this the way to treat a "guest"?

The idea of running a test is one thing, but to do so without warning anybody is asinine. Totally asinine.

LAFFNVEGAS · October 20, 2005

Now correct me if I am wrong but were we not offered "Leisure Dining" before and by going to the for Lido for Dinner??:confused: I actually have never done it but to my understanding is quite nice with tableclothes on the tables and they offer the same menu that is found in the Main Dining room. I did understand that the dining time was short and early, why don't they just expand this to a later time???

BJane · October 20, 2005

What in the world is happening to HAL? I like an early dinner, but 5:30 is more of an afternoon snack time than a dinner time. I'm about to give up on RCI because of all the poorly behaved children on board. Now do I have to give up on HAL also? I've always felt that I could count on them to provide some dignity and sanity to the cruise experience. How can anything be dignified at 5:30!!

Iggipolka · October 20, 2005

Now correct me if I am wrong but were we not offered "Leisure Dining" before and by going to the for Lido for Dinner??:confused:

That is exactly what I said when I talked to the HAL rep on the phone this morning. She said that the Lido is a buffet style resturant, so it's different than the main dining room. I countered by saying that during dinner time, pax get their own appetizers and salads/soups, but the entree is brought to the table and that the Lido has tablecloths and other nice features at dinner. In addition, the Lido is the alternative to having traditional seating and has worked quite well so far, so why mess with something that isn't broken!

She had no real answer to that.

I'm seriously considering canceling the cruise that I have been looking forward to with great anticipation and excitement for the past 9 months. I'm so angry and dissapointed with HAL. The way that they handled this, without notifying pax well before hand, is just disgusting.

KAKcruiser · October 20, 2005

The main problem with the lido is that it is not as comfortable as the dining room. It is nice if you miss your meal time but I really didn't like jumping up to serve myself. They do bring your entree to the table but you have to collect the appetizer and dessert and drinks. The dining room service is what I appreciate on vacation.

mariner · October 20, 2005

I hate to say I told you so, but I've been saying for three years that Carnival's CEO is enamored with Princess' operations and their bottom line.

Princess took over operations of QM2 and their philosophy has been creeping into HAL's for the past few years.

HAL has been slipping in its premium status and shifting toward the mainstream.

The way the experiment comes as no surprise. Everyone remember when they decided to just eliminate smoking in the dining room with no notice to pax already booked?

At least they backed down on their timetable after an uproar (started on this board) ensued.

We went to HAL years ago after Princess mistook our dinner reservation with the person in the cabin next to ours who had the same first initial and last name. They wouldn't admit the error and it took a large tip to finally get us seated with our friends.

And on the next cruise, they allowed a large Italian group to literally take over the ship, including blocking admittance to the dining room until they could all be seated at the same time.

The response to our letter to Princess' chairman was hilarious and calling it a form letter would be an insult to form letters.

Princess quickly realized its flexible dining time would only work well on monster ships. HAL's fleet is woefully small for this experiment to be a success, even if they split the dining room levels. There just aren't enough alternatives to spread the load around.

Frankly, over the years we've watched some passengers barely figure out the set times shuffling into the dining room.

But their market research tells them the mass-market wants to eat when they want to, dress when they want to and sit whereever they want to. If they can make this work, they will (at least in the Caribbean).

If they do, we'll be checking out.

We loved open seating on the old Royal Viking Line. We had an assigned table, but could go whenever we wanted. The funny thing was, most passengers arrived at the same time every night.

peaches from georgia · October 20, 2005

HAL is looking to where the growth in the industry lies. No business can remain stagnant. It is not just families that want something more easy-going than HAL traditional. There is a large just retired/about-to-retire market that has the disposable income and the time to find luxury and upper-end mass market cruising a perfect vacation.

But if our friends are any indication, HAL is not getting its share of those new cruisers. Our friends all want the same thing- 4-5 star service and food, an elegant quality adult atmosphere, open seat dining and country club casual/resort dress. They are not slobs and want quality in everything, but are not even looking at HAL for their cruises. And believe me, they are cruising all over the world. The older HAL ships would be of great interest to them, especially after the SOE renovations, but they want the options of more 'freedom' in their vacation that HAL is so-far not offering. I think HAL is very attuned to the market of 2005 and on.

LoveLifeAtSea · October 20, 2005

Believe it. I can't believe any business in operation to make money would do something like this if they did not receive feedback from their passengers that they were looking for an "anytime dining" option.

Okay, maybe you're right. But then, if you are, it appears that those of us who prefer HAL's original traditions are becoming the 'minority'. I mean, how many comments do HAL have to get in order to consider making this kind of change?

rkacruiser · October 20, 2005

I, too, oppose such a change to the Dining Room schedule and service.

I am fairly certain that HAL does not have a "General Manager". Those who are in positions of authority usually have a "VP" or "Senior VP" title. As Grumpy1 stated, if the representative from Seattle is not Mr. Groothuizen, the VP for Marine Hotel Operations, who does have oversight responsibility for the food and beverage operations aboard the ships, it is not likely that the representative will be nothing more than a "reporter" for the executives in Seattle.

May I respectfully suggest that while venting our concerns here does allow the "world" to know what we think, more productive actions designed to let those in charge of HAL know what we think is possible. Write--not e-mail--write to Mr. Kruse, Mr. Groothuizen, Mr. Lanterman(he is still the Chairman, just not the CEO), and to the director of the Mariner Society(I can't immediately recall her name). A letter to Mr. Arison would not be inappropriate, also, particularly if you are a CCL shareholder. However, I think I would "hold" the letters until we see if this "test" really does take place this coming week.

The antidote for "stupid pills" is common sense. I hope that commodity is available in the Executive Offices of Holland America Line.

RuthC · October 20, 2005

I might, maybe, perhaps could understand this if there were an uprising of the masses calling for PC/open/leisurely dining and it was impacting the bottom line. But as it is if people want other than traditional dining there are lines that will provide it, and HAL ships are still sailing full.

Has there been any indication that without this radical change the dining rooms won't have sufficiant passengers? Not that's ever been reported here. I keep reading posts about the ships sailing full. When I board I see a sign that no upgrades are available as the ship is full.

Can HAL be contemplating throwing overboard (figuratively speaking) all her older, traditional passengers in an attempt to replace them with younger---got more cruises in front of 'em---passengers. Am I that expendable?

Do you suppose (oh, please God) that maybe HAL is reading this thread and reconsidering? Huh? Huh?

Grumpy1 · October 20, 2005

One problem with the comment cards is that we probably don't mention the things we take for granted. How many of us have ever put in a comment such as "I really appreciate the fact that HAL is maintaining the traditional dining instead of following the idea of personal choice dining"? But those that like PC dining will always note that they would prefer that. The guys keeping score only see that there are people that want PC and very few that express a strong feeling about traditional dining.

I'll bet the ratio of comments will be different after this "experiment".

You would think that they would do some Mariner polling before jumping into something like this.

10/22 Oosterdam Dining Change - No, I'm not kidding...

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Archived

Announcements

Features & News

New Photos