Targeting A Changing Holland America Guest

[DFWGUYZ]

Interesting article on the Koningsdam:

 

http://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Koningsdam-Targeting-A-Changing-Holland-America-Guest

[808lady]

Interesting article on the Koningsdam:

 

http://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Koningsdam-Targeting-A-Changing-Holland-America-Guest

 

For sharing this article.

[Karennella]

Interesting; what I personally liked least about the ship was the decor. Simply a matter of taste but to me looked like a casino.

I enjoyed the musical choices but not the fact that the Lincoln Center musicians had to compete with the noise from the bar.

Didn't worry me particularly, but many people would not like walking through the smoked-filled casino to get to the upstairs dining room.

I would think it would be more urgent for them to address the various needs of their guests as they move away from majority American demographics. People have been complaining in reviews about slow service in restaurants; meals taking two hours. we expect and enjoy two hour meals and hate to be rushed. Ideally they might need to get some idea of your preferences in that regard. Our steward was quite amusing when he wanted to get our group to leave; he would joke about the taxi being ordered, the taxi having arrived, the shuttle bus is on the way. It was all done in fun when he knew us well!

[ptcgal]

Thank you for the article. Very informative. I only cruised with HAL once in Alaska. The last 4 cruises were with Royal Caribbean. I am booked on Hal to Panama Canal in October. Looking forward to getting back to HAL. I had enough of the rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, zip lines, etc. Why do I go on cruise lines where I don't even use any of these "great amenities". A lot of the changes that HAL is bringing to the bigger ships will probably get more people interested in sailing with them and also can appeal to younger people and the senior crowd also. They have to move with the times if they want to attract new cruisers.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thank you for the link to the article.

Very interesting.

So far everything I have read and pictures I have seen have not interested us in that ship.

[msmayor]

Same here...its a beautiful ship but not one I would go out of my way to choose.

 

My husband and I have been on two HAL ships (Veendam, Westerdam) and will sail our third next March (Zuiderdam). Our love of cruising comes from the more traditional aspects of the experience...fixed dining, nightly shows, strolling on deck, relaxing in a deck chair and watching the sea go by. If I wanted the experience of multiple dining venues, multiple show options, etc. I'd go someplace else like Vegas.

 

HAL is not the only line moving in this direction. We've been on a few RCL trips and their larger ships have the same type of atmosphere. I've already read some stories of people who have to book dining and shows ahead of time for their entire trip (not for me) and then they get notified days or a few weeks before departure that show times have changed, and now they are scrambling to 'save' their vacation.

 

No thanks.

[cavecreekguy]

I like the look of the balcony area under the roof overlooking the Lido pool area, but otherwise the ship just doesn't interest me.

 

Not a seafood fan so Sel de Mer does nothing for me. On the other hand, when I finally make it onto the Nieuw Amsterdam or the Eurodam, I'm really looking forward to Tamarind.

 

I like music...but not sure I want an entire ship that's themed on music.

 

Mixing my own wine? That may appeal to some, but not to me.

 

Tasting fancy whisky? I have a feeling that will be like the champagne bars in the Mix area where they have those. I have yet to see anyone sitting in those areas.

 

Not to mention what they did with the Promenade deck!

Edited June 25, 2016 by cavecreekguy

[Homosassa]

The changes in the HAL experience [the "Not as You Wish" anytime dining which seems to be the only one available, the cut back in the selections in the buffet), the idea that all public deck space is no longer public but needs to be rented (cabanas), etc;] has moved us out of the HAL passenger pool.

 

We cruise several times and year and often with our daughter and her boyfriend. They both loved the "old" HAL experience. We also no longer recommend HAL to family and friends.

 

Hopefully, for HAL's bottom line, their new ship strategy pays off as old and young past cruisers look elsewhere for the excellence that used to be HAL.

[OlsSalt]

Seems like HAL can just sit still and wait for a new wave of "aging" passengers to find them for the charms so many of us also like about HAL ships.

 

No reason to attract "new" or younger passengers when they all will get "old" themselves too, and may end up looking for exactly what HAL offers best right now - small, low-key ships with emphasis on comfort, itineraries and homey predictability.

 

Attracting the "more mature" passenger seems like a steady and renewable passenger base in its own right. Unless someone has broken the code and eliminated both death and taxes.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Seems like HAL can just sit still and wait for a new wave of "aging" passengers to find them for the charms so many of us also like about HAL ships.

 

No reason to attract "new" or younger passengers when they all will get "old" themselves too, and may end up looking for exactly what HAL offers best right now - small, low-key ships with emphasis on comfort, itineraries and homey predictability.

 

Attracting the "more mature" passenger seems like a steady and renewable passenger base in its own right. Unless someone has broken the code and eliminated both death and taxes.

 

Overtime here, sorry. OlsSalt, I absolutely love your thoughtful, articulate, wry, well-reasoned posts. Been wanting to tell you that for some time. I don't necessarily always agree with all you say, but you do make me think. Thank you.

[sail7seas]

Since we first started criusing HAL, I h ave seen great changes in who are HALguetssnnow 'typical/majorityofCRUISERS NOTHING LIKE back in the early 90'S, FOR

 

BETTER OR WORSE. :D Times and circumstances change and new people are suddendely ableto afford and are interested in cruisinfg. Those who could not afford to cruise in the 80's saw changes that made it possible for them. Now there are other changes that are attacftting new people.

Edited June 25, 2016 by sail7seas

[bphman]

It looks interesting to me especially with the different dining venues. HAL had to do something to make it competitive and lure people over. I personally prefer smaller ships but this would be the largest I would try. Have done a few larger ships but "smaller is better" for my taste.

[Homosassa]

OleSalt is right.

 

I keep hearing the the HAL demographic is "old," but I started cruising in the mid 70s when I was in my twenties. HAL has always been a favorite of ours and also was good for us when we were a young family. It is (was) also a favorite of my now 32 y.o. daughter.

 

Forty years later. I now am the stereotype of the "old" clientele and she is the "young" cruiser they want to attract. Guess what? HAL no longer offers the cruising experience that she wants.

 

I have had a theory for a while that with Princess and HAL targeting the same market demographic and having the same corporate owners, a corporate decision was made to reposition HAL to be a bridge cruise line between the entry level Carnival, RCI, and NCL cruises and the more upscale cruise brands.

 

The article posted seems to support my theory.

[cruisemom42]

Seems like HAL can just sit still and wait for a new wave of "aging" passengers to find them for the charms so many of us also like about HAL ships.

 

No reason to attract "new" or younger passengers when they all will get "old" themselves too, and may end up looking for exactly what HAL offers best right now - small, low-key ships with emphasis on comfort, itineraries and homey predictability.

 

Attracting the "more mature" passenger seems like a steady and renewable passenger base in its own right. Unless someone has broken the code and eliminated both death and taxes.

 

Interesting thought, but I'm not sure the aging baby-boomers of today want the same thing in a cruise as their parents.

 

For example: my parents (80s) have been very happy with HAL ships over the years. But I don't see HAL ever being a good fit for my sister (60s) and BIL (70s) who also love to cruise but prefer the Royal Caribbean/Celebrity vibe.

 

The "new" older cruiser may want more entertainment options, better connectivity, a sleeker looking ship. One big drawback for DS and DBIL is the lack of a really meaningful past-passenger program compared with what they get on Royal & Celebrity...

 

I suppose you will say HAL can target only the relevant segment of the aging demographic. But if they want to keep as many ships in the fleet as they currently have, they may have to cast their nets wider.

[Homosassa]

Interesting thought, but I'm not sure the aging baby-boomers of today want the same thing in a cruise as their parents.

 

For example: my parents (80s) have been very happy with HAL ships over the years. But I don't see HAL ever being a good fit for my sister (60s) and BIL (70s) who also love to cruise but prefer the Royal Caribbean/Celebrity vibe.

 

The "new" older cruiser may want more entertainment options, better connectivity, a sleeker looking ship. One big drawback for DS and DBIL is the lack of a really meaningful past-passenger program compared with what they get on Royal & Celebrity...

 

I suppose you will say HAL can target only the relevant segment of the aging demographic. But if they want to keep as many ships in the fleet as they currently have, they may have to cast their nets wider.

 

LOL - I am soon to be 66 and my husband 70. HAL no longer fits what we want in cruising.

 

Of course, past guest programs aren't important to us as we have given up cruising some lines we once enjoyed as they were repositioned for their targeted demographic (RCI is an example - it is no where near the cruise experience it was in the nineties and very early 2000's).

 

The interesting thing is that some of us have recently tried MSC as it offers more of the traditional cruise experience (great traditional dining, interesting passenger mix from around the world, a strong heritage (Italian) that shows in the food, active daily programs, port or sea day, run by a large cruise staff). I just wish their ships had a smaller passenger load.

[blizzardboy]

Interesting thought, but I'm not sure the aging baby-boomers of today want the same thing in a cruise as their parents.

 

For example: my parents (80s) have been very happy with HAL ships over the years. But I don't see HAL ever being a good fit for my sister (60s) and BIL (70s) who also love to cruise but prefer the Royal Caribbean/Celebrity vibe.

 

The "new" older cruiser may want more entertainment options, better connectivity, a sleeker looking ship. One big drawback for DS and DBIL is the lack of a really meaningful past-passenger program compared with what they get on Royal & Celebrity...

 

I suppose you will say HAL can target only the relevant segment of the aging demographic. But if they want to keep as many ships in the fleet as they currently have, they may have to cast their nets wider.

 

There will always be customers like us that prefer a Bellagio experience to a Circus Circus experience. We were attracted to HAL in our 40s because it was a more genteel and traditional cruising experience. Twenty years later, I'm concerned that we might lose that feeling.

Edited June 26, 2016 by blizzardboy

[cruisemom42]

There will always be customers like us that prefer a Bellagio experience to a Circus Circus experience. We were attracted to HAL in our 40s because it was a more genteel and traditional cruising experience. Twenty years later, I'm concerned that we might lose that feeling.

 

I've been on Celebrity and it is in no way a "Circus Circus" experience.

[blizzardboy]

I've been on Celebrity and it is in no way a "Circus Circus" experience.

I was referring more to NCL, RCCL, and Carnival. We've booked our first Celebrity cruise a couple months ago, going to Asia in Jan 2018. However, my experience so far with Celebrity's customer reps, website errors, and Executive Office have left me wondering if we're doing the right thing. It's been one of the least enjoyable experiences I've had in the travel industry. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but if one more straw hits the camel's back....

Edited June 26, 2016 by blizzardboy

[iancal]

HAL needs to change. Otherwise they will end up like the Pontiac and Oldsmobile brands.

 

They need to do a 'Buick" and invigorate the brand. It is appealing less and less to my generation. Early retirees who travel often and are not particularly brand loyal. I used to include HAL brands in our short lists. Not so much any more...DW does not really want to know unless the itinerary is unique to HAL. Maybe the fleet changes will alter that.

 

We do not see much difference between the brands any more. HAL, Princess, Celebrity, etc are all very similar in terms of service levels to us. The differences lie in the specific ships, crew, and itineraries. Hardly premium brands any more.

Edited June 26, 2016 by iancal

[OlsSalt]

HAL needs to change. Otherwise they will end up like the Pontiac and Oldsmobile brands.

 

They need to do a 'Buick" and invigorate the brand. It is appealing less and less to my generation. Early retirees who travel often and are not particularly brand loyal. I used to include HAL brands in our short lists. Not so much any more...DW does not really want to know unless the itinerary is unique to HAL. Maybe the fleet changes will alter that.

 

We do not see much difference between the brands any more. HAL, Princess, Celebrity, etc are all very similar in terms of service levels to us. The differences lie in the specific ships, crew, and itineraries. Hardly premium brands any more.

 

I believe the only thing that "invigorated" Buick was the high level of 1930's nostalgia for its premium brand reputation ...... which boosted sales primarily in China. Which in turn which "saved" GM.

 

Nostalgia for old, classic comforts. Now there is a HAL marketing theme they need to hang on to.

[blizzardboy]

HAL needs to change. Otherwise they will end up like the Pontiac and Oldsmobile brands.

 

They need to do a 'Buick" and invigorate the brand. It is appealing less and less to my generation. Early retirees who travel often and are not particularly brand loyal. I used to include HAL brands in our short lists. Not so much any more...DW does not really want to know unless the itinerary is unique to HAL. Maybe the fleet changes will alter that.

 

We do not see much difference between the brands any more. HAL, Princess, Celebrity, etc are all very similar in terms of service levels to us. The differences lie in the specific ships, crew, and itineraries. Hardly premium brands any more.

 

If HAL "dumbs" things down too much, they'll definitely go the way of Olds and Pontiac.

[HUNKY]

I guess HAL, and especially, the Koningsdam is targeting my partner and I. We love the size, interior design, multiple dining options, pools and our booked itinerary. We own tuxedos and suits, but neither of us dress for work. I follow the dress code, but will most likely not lug the tuxedo to the Mediterranean this fall, even though our flights don't charge for checked bags.

 

Regarding the automotive analogy, I'm hoping that Koningsdam would be like a Lexus. Great value for the price paid. Not inexpensive, but a better value proposition than a Mercedes. Or the new 2017 Lincoln Continental, which appeals to me as a fifty something, and just might still appeal to an older generation.

 

BTW The casino is not even close to the dining room. It's easy to avoid the casino.

Edited June 26, 2016 by HUNKY

[axelskater]

I read this with great interest, as I have booked my 1st ever HAL cruise, in order to see AK. I would consider myself having brand loyalty (maybe I am in the minority?), for a myriad of reasons, but, my favorite brand does not do Alaska.

 

I more or less chose HAL specifically because it seems the most like my favorite line, Cunard. I hope I am not incorrect. I understand it will not be as formal, but it does appear to have a nice sense of history and tradition, some classic appeal in the design of the ships' interiors and exteriors, and they still appear to carry on some traditions such as afternoon tea, a place to hear classical music, etc. I look forward to my 1st HAL voyage. I took a look at Celebrity since they also offer accommodations for 3 people, and it really didn't stand out - nothing bad, but HAL came across as more traditional and elegant. I have a while before my trip but I am excited to see if it's a line I will sail on again.

[jhsocal]

This should work as long as HAL does not try "to be all things to all people" on all their ships. Probably, smart move to make these changes on "K" and a future sister ship as long as they do not implement changes on their entire fleet. Will be interesting to see how this plays out over a couple years.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I read this with great interest, as I have booked my 1st ever HAL cruise, in order to see AK. I would consider myself having brand loyalty (maybe I am in the minority?), for a myriad of reasons, but, my favorite brand does not do Alaska.

 

I more or less chose HAL specifically because it seems the most like my favorite line, Cunard. I hope I am not incorrect. I understand it will not be as formal, but it does appear to have a nice sense of history and tradition, some classic appeal in the design of the ships' interiors and exteriors, and they still appear to carry on some traditions such as afternoon tea, a place to hear classical music, etc. I look forward to my 1st HAL voyage. I took a look at Celebrity since they also offer accommodations for 3 people, and it really didn't stand out - nothing bad, but HAL came across as more traditional and elegant. I have a while before my trip but I am excited to see if it's a line I will sail on again.

 

If Cunard is your favorite, I think you made a good choice in HAL. Cunard is my favorite, too, and HAL is my only other choice. I've tried others, but I keep coming back to Cunard and HAL.

 

If you think of HAL as "Cunard Lite" your expectations will be met. Little things like afternoon is in the MDR not a lounge and you'll get tea bags, not tea in pots. (HAL regulars are rolling their eyes about now, but I think you'll understand what I mean.) Classical duo instead of quartet. But at least there's something classical, which you might not find elsewhere. And the price is "lite" compared to Cunard, so I accept that I get a bit "less" on HAL than Cunard, but I pay less for comparable accommodations.

 

Expect great service on HAL, because you'll get it. Service with a smile is their hallmark. And expect interesting fellow passengers. One of the things that the two lines seem to have in common is that they attract people who are interesting and interested in other people, so there isn't the insular "table for two" attitude I've seen on other lines.