NCL is getting fancier but what will NCL do with the bottom of their target group?

[Annmeat]

Is Celebrity just being used as an example or does FDR really think NCL can compete with or compare to Celebrity? :confused:

 

For us NCL is attractive when we cruise with our children, which we have always done . We are taking our first cruise without them later in the year and on NCL because we could not get X or MSC when we wanted or to the ports we desired to see. The "Away" ships on NCL are perfect for a family and the suites are less expensive than on RCCL.

 

That being said, NCL has really jacked up suite prices leaving many, many I booked suites and upsell opportunities. I have several feelings about this. I understand that they may be trying to reel in customers with a drastically reduced suite price at upsell in hopes that they will book full fare in the future. I don't see this happening.

 

I also can envision full-fare suite consumers getting really ticked to find that they paid 6K for a suite, and willingly so, and then their same suite is offered 30 days out at literally half the cost. As much as we all say " I book the suite that I want at a price that I am comfortable with", it still may stick in one's craw that they paid so much more than Joe Upsell. It's a psychological thing.

 

We are diamond on RCL and platinum on NCL which will transfer on MSC. We are also looking at X.

 

But if we cruise again with the three teenagers we will look at NCL simply because the bigger ships offer so much for them.

 

We have cruised twice on NCL since FDR took the reins and our experiences were absolutely wonderful.

 

However-NCL cannot truly consider themselves an upscale line. While the Haven is lovely the balcony square footage for H4,H5,H7 and H9 is almost insulting. The pool areas are a joke, the Haven pool itself had been overrun with drunkards and small kids on all of our recent cruises . My kids have received some first-hand anatomy lessons from some of the patrons and their chosen swim attire in the tiny Haven pool....

 

One more point-even with all the changes we have enjoyed every minute of our NCL cruises in the past 3 years. I have never felt "nickel and dimed" as I don't need to purchase anything that I don't want to.

 

This may well be our last NCL cruise as there are more affordable suite options out there. And we don't have any loyalty to a certain cruise line. Switching has nothing to do with the "nickel and Diming". NCL has simply raised their higher end cabin prices too much with no added benefits. X and MSC have a lot to offer us as cruisers cruises sans kids. Our three will all be off to college in the next 2 years so we are not bound by school schedules.

 

It will be a fun journey to see where we end up.

 

I hope that you all have a sparkling Sunday!

 

Just for comparison- we price RCL Grandeur for 5 nights. We are paying the same for an H6 on Getaway as we would for an OS on Grandeur. The suite benefits on RCL do not compare to NCL.

 

Annie

[Boschmann]

I think Celebrity is being used as an example, but Del Rio does want to move NCL up on the cruise line food chain. Industry analysts have said he wants to make NCL an entry level line for passengers to make the jump to Oceania and Regent.

 

I like some of the Oceania itineraries so I'd consider falling for that plan, if only they would do some sort of status match across the three lines.

[newmexicoNita]

Part of the basic challenges I see with NCL's product is that, what can executive / top management do about the basic sizes of the staterooms - outside of its Haven categories - the newly refurbished QM2's standard inside is bigger than the regular balcony on the *Away class ships, and it has a real chair (some with a sofa) vs. a "stool" for sea days.

 

I am an experienced cruiser, have cruised all mass marketed lines as well as a few that are long gone. I have to wonder what I am not seeing that so many of you are: we have rarely had questionable service on NCL, have only had a few meals that were below par; we think, overall the food has improved over the years. They have never been noted for their food quality, We haven't found the prices particularly out of sink with other lines; normally when we consider the perks we are happy with the prices. Now, myking8288: you are on to something when you talk about cabin sizes. Most lines have darn small cabins, but NCL overall probably has the smallest. HAL and Disney the largest.

[Aquahound]

I think Celebrity is being used as an example, but Del Rio does want to move NCL up on the cruise line food chain. Industry analysts have said he wants to make NCL an entry level line for passengers to make the jump to Oceania and Regent.

 

Thank you.

 

I totally agree that NCL is an entry level cruise line, like Carnival. But make the jump to Oceania or Regent? I don't see a whole lot of likelihood in that scenario. I think a disappointed first-time NCL cruiser is more likely to try a line like Celebrity, HAL, RCI or Princess before looking at a line like Regent.

[swedish weave]

There are several things to consider here:

 

1 and the most important, have you tried booking the $799.00 rate? Do, see when it is available and what the taxes and port charges are? When I was still an agent I has a new client call with a rate she had seen advertised: 40% off on Alaskan cruises on HAL Well the ad was right, the catch: it was 40% off the July rate and only available for the first 2 May sailings.

2-MSC is relatively new to the Caribbean market: they are pushing for new business, just like a new store in town when advertising specials. X clients.

3-I have had X clients, family members and friends who have sailed MSC : the newer ships are very pretty apparently, but the service leaves a lot to be desired and the food, like most ships depends on the individuals tastes, plus they do not offer the selection of dining you get on the older standard mass marketed lines

4-Maybe NCL doesn't want to compete with them?

5-have you sailed them yet? Maybe you would fall in love, maybe come back with answers to your questions.

 

-

 

Have you sailed MSC yet ????????

[Maraprince]

NCL keeps changing the terms of their promos every time a new promo is introduced. It has become so complicated to figure out whether the new promo is better than the original one you booked under and worth it to cancel and do a new booking. IMO, don't advertise that you are giving passengers free dinners/drinks under a promo only for them to find out that gratuities on the promo are extra. Also, the newer promo only includes a limited number of dinners vs. dinners for the entire number of cruise days. If you do not read the details closely you are in for a big surprise.

 

No more (included) lobster in the MDR. And unless you have the dining package, lobster is an extra charge item in the specialty restaurants even for the Platinum level.

 

On my 5/7 Gem sailing, many parents and children were surprised to learn that only the first 20 children registered daily could participate in the children's program. Nowhere was that mentioned at the time booking. Yes, the 3rd and 4th person sailed free and that was why so many parents took their kids with them on the sailing thinking they could avail themselves of the daily children's program only to learn it was severely limited. Plus, they had to register each day for the program. Kids were everywhere all day long and up after midnight. The movies shown in the attrum were "Finding Nemo" and similar fare, while activities included making balloon animals, etc. -- truly the type of things to attract the "higher clientele" that NCL wants.

 

The cabin bathrooms are so tiny as to be laughable. Try bending down and you find that you have more space between a row of seats in economy class on an airplane! If you are not a fan of confined spaces, don't book a studio cabin!

 

Not sure who NCL wants to attract to booking with them?????:confused:

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[newmexicoNita]

Have you sailed MSC yet ????????

 

No, that is why I made reference to my family, friends, X clients and my travel agent: they all have. BTW, I am not defending NCL or blasting MSC, I was simply giving some reasons, as I see it with the prices on MSC being so low. I can also add, we are cruising NCL in November and have a similar price to what the OP saw on MSC. We are paying a base price of $764 per person: 4 specialty dinners, UBP and small OBC. Of course on top of that comes taxes, port charges, ins. etc. Oh, yes, we have a balcony on the Epic.

[Demonyte]

I totally agree that NCL is an entry level cruise line, like Carnival. But make the jump to Oceania or Regent? I don't see a whole lot of likelihood in that scenario. I think a disappointed first-time NCL cruiser is more likely to try a line like Celebrity, HAL, RCI or Princess before looking at a line like Regent.

 

That is the scenario now, but not what FDR ultimately wants from NCL. (Also Royal isn't a premium cruise line like Celebrity, HAL or Princess.)

[Aquahound]

That is the scenario now, but not what FDR ultimately wants from NCL. (Also Royal isn't a premium cruise line like Celebrity, HAL or Princess.)

 

I think FDR is nuts.

 

I wasn't saying RCI was premium. I just think someone who would book NCL to begin with is more likely to jump to another mass market ship.

[sparks1093]

Thank you.

 

I totally agree that NCL is an entry level cruise line, like Carnival. But make the jump to Oceania or Regent? I don't see a whole lot of likelihood in that scenario. I think a disappointed first-time NCL cruiser is more likely to try a line like Celebrity, HAL, RCI or Princess before looking at a line like Regent.

 

He definitely has a long row to hoe to re-position NCL to where he wants it to be. The visual that comes to my mind is the Andrea Gail trying to crest that last wave in "The Perfect Storm".

[Homosassa]

I first cruised NCL in 1977. At the time, it was somewhat comparable to existing cruise lines such as Chandris (Chandris was better, however) but could not compare with Sitmar.

 

It was also the time when a decision was made to add additional cabins to their existing ships and turning them into the overcrowded sardine cans of today.

 

Over the years, the NCL food quality definitely declined. It worsened with the advent of specialty restaurants where the dining room food become more like Denny's on a poor to good night.

 

While "Freestyle' was suppose to be a great innovation with the idea of any time dining and what turned out to be "freeslob" cruise attire, it actually turned out to mean waiting for a table (sometimes for quite a while) or having to make a reservation for a time you wanted in the dining room.

 

We have stopped cruising NCL. The food is bad and I have no desire to "Freestyle" it as that requires me to plan my cruise in advance with reservations for dining and shows before I set foot on this ship. And let's not forget the additional fees for the shows and food to bring the cruise experience up to what should be a normal cruise experience.

 

I recently tried MSC Divina. And no, I didn't status match any of my high status classifications on several cruise lines.

 

I wanted to do a basic Bella interior room and see what the experience would be for someone just walking on the a ship for the first time (except I do have over 40 years of experience on different cruise lines to compare with MSC ).

 

It was great. MSC offered the more traditional cruise experience that has been lost on some many USA lines. The lost art of traditional leisurely dining is embraced. Food quality is much better than anything I have had recently on NCL, RCI, and sadly HAL, but matches Princess and Celebrity. The dining rooms are open for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day, not just sea days.

 

I know some people complain about the food on MSC, but I feel that is more a problem of limited food experience (Pizza Hut and Olive Garden are not Italian food) or lack of experience with a passenger base that draws from around the world and where people from the USA are not the majority population on the ship.

 

The performers in the shows are obviously drawn from high caliber training. They have acrobats that match any Cirque du soleil performers - at no extra cost. Singers have operatic voices and dancers are classically trained.

 

The daily activities is a full schedule; port or sea day makes no difference.

 

I actually do not understand the MSC fare schedule for the USA Divina cruises. It is much too low for the quality of what is offered. The cruises must be being offered at a lower price to built up a USA client base.

 

In my opinion, the status match program may be targeting the wrong status match cruise lines unless MSC hopes to attract those that realize there is a better cruise experience than RCI and NCL (Carnival cruisers that I met were hopeless confused by the difference on MSC and very unhappy).

[Aquahound]

I first cruised NCL in 1977. At the time, it was somewhat comparable to existing cruise lines such as Chandris (Chandris was better, however) but could not compare with Sitmar.

 

It was also the time when a decision was made to add additional cabins to their existing ships and turning them into the overcrowded sardine cans of today.

 

Over the years, the NCL food quality definitely declined. It worsened with the advent of specialty restaurants where the dining room food become more like Denny's on a poor to good night.

 

While "Freestyle' was suppose to be a great innovation with the idea of any time dining and what turned out to be "freeslob" cruise attire, it actually turned out to mean waiting for a table (sometimes for quite a while) or having to make a reservation for a time you wanted in the dining room.

 

After 3 awesome cruises on NCL...Sunward II and twice on Seaward, they brought in Freestyle. My next cruise on Norwegian Sea still goes down in history as one of my worst. The early days of Freestyle ruined great cruise service and great meals. My next cruise was on RCI and the difference blew me away.

 

10 years later, I decided to give NCL another try. I cruised Sky and Dawn. I still thought NCL sucked, resulting in another 4 years break.

 

I just cruised Escape and as a result, I have some hope for NCL. It's not even close to being a stepping stone to Regent but in my opinion, the new NCL ships are at least competitive to newer CCL and RCI ships....except Oasis Class, which is in a class of its own.

[jm485]

Our upcoming cruise on NCL may prove to be my last cruise ever with my husband if things are as dire as some comments would suggest.

 

I suppose my DH and I -- who are in our early 50s, upper middle class DINKs and willing to pay for a nice product -- are the kind of folks NCL's management is trying to attract. On the other hand, we (well, more the DH) probably fall into the "freeslob" cruise attire category, as well.:D So I suspect lines like MSC or X wouldn't fit us very well.

 

My husband has been on 2 cruises and hated them both, for a number of reasons. The second was on RCI last year. He thought the food was mediocre, but that's got a lot to do with our options being limited by his refusal to wear long pants to dinner (forget about a tie). As a result, we ended up eating in the buffet most of the time. Our occasional attempts at room service were pretty unsuccessful, as our first choice of item was often not available, the food was usually cold and there wasn't anywhere in the room to sit comfortably to eat it.

 

So we booked with NCL this year, an SF on the Gem. We are simply not interested in the Haven. We want private outdoor space, not shared "limited access" space, and the price of the DOS with the big balcony is generally out of the budget. The size of the other Haven balconies is ridiculous for the price being charged. I'm hoping the aft suite will strike the sweet spot: priority boarding and disembarkation (the suite perk we probably care about most), a nice sized balcony, a table to eat at in the room, and shorts OK at dinner.

 

And yes, he's serious about the shorts -- even though we're on a Canada/NE cruise. When I told him that I'd found out that he'd have to bring long pants to wear to the French restaurant, his response was "I don't like French food anyway."

 

So I think that's the delicate balance NCL needs to strike: how to get the quality that its price suggests, while maintaining a more casual atmosphere than its competitors (or than those it aspires to compete with). It will be interesting to see how it develops. As for me, if the mood strikes to cruise, I'm sure I could convince my MIL to go. My trips to Antarctica and Australia were with her, and she's a much easier-going travel companion than her son!

[baileytnt]

LOL. I can appreciate the issues with the dress. We too would probable be classified economically as upper middle class but hubs loves his blue jeans and baseball hat. In his defense, he's been balding since his 20s and now at nearly 50, his head feels naked without it.

 

Just got off the Pearl and other than eating at O'Sheehans we did buffet every meal because of it. We aren't really foodies so it worked for us although I would have like to try the MDR at least once.

 

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[Homosassa]

We have been on some top tier cruise lines. It is interesting that some of them are resort casual all the time (only go formal if you want for a special occasion) and the food is superb in both the dining rooms and buffets. There is also open seating for all meals because the ships have large enough dining spaces to accommodate all the passengers no matter at what time they show up to eat. That is definitely "Freestyle."

 

Those lines are a definite option for those who would like resort casual and excellent food.

 

We are also the type of passengers that NCL would like to attract back. For us to return, I would like a set cruise price that covers excellent food and any entertainment I would like to see without the need to reserve anything before I set foot on the ship..

[Merriem]

LOL. I can appreciate the issues with the dress. We too would probable be classified economically as upper middle class but hubs loves his blue jeans and baseball hat. In his defense, he's been balding since his 20s and now at nearly 50, his head feels naked without it.

 

Just got off the Pearl and other than eating at O'Sheehans we did buffet every meal because of it. We aren't really foodies so it worked for us although I would have like to try the MDR at least once.

 

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Nothing personal, but between the horrible food, and the free slob dressing, I walked away from a $2200 voucher from the POA repositioning cruise in March. The food was so bad, they took the shrimp cocktail off the suite lunch menu, and my husband who always dresses nicely, said he would not go on a cruise again. Well, I am going with my sister on X to Alaska, and DH and I are doing a b2b on X in Australia. We like a bit more class that NCL just doesn't have. Nothing against the passengers, but NCL has hit rock bottom in my opinion.

[DMH15]

I totally agree. I've sailed on Celebrity considerably more than I have on NCL and I think NCL is a long way from a premium line like Celebrity. NCL has a long expensive road ahead of them if they want to move from a mass market line to a premium line. It is going to take a lot more than upgrading the ships, it is going to take extensive advertising dollars to change the perception of what NCL has always been.

 

I don't think NCL would be worried about losing some customers to MSC, as they seem to be garnering new customers to replace them.

 

 

Re: your last sentence. NCL is losing that customer like me who is used to spending $5-$6k for a week in a suite and feeling value. But now, NCL wants $7-9k or more for the same product. And since they are not selling they fire sale them by upsells so the guy next to you paid $3k. That is a big disparity for buying early and picking my suite first. No thanks!

 

I have always spent a ton on board too. Pricy excursions, spa, casino, specialty dining. My half usually runs me about $5k. So, we are looking at about $10k fot two.

 

So, that is what I am shopping around.

[Starflyr3]

I have to wonder if he isnt trying to attract families like mine. We are the Haven target demographic of young, affluent, with younger kids. Dont know just how many of us there are,min terms of customer base, though.

 

I have sailed on traditional cruises (HAL, RCI, etc) and I like it - but NOT with children. My kids can't/won't do 2 hour + dinner each night, and we don't want to fob them off at every opportunity, but do want a good kids program available.

 

None of us are into dressing in fancy clothes nightly ("acceptable" dress for non- formal dinners on the traditional lines tends to be what I wear to work - nice slacks, country cub casual tops. No, thanks, I'm on vacation!), and none of us like buffets.

 

NCL fits us like a glove.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Starflyr3

[fshagan]

I have to wonder if he isnt trying to attract families like mine. We are the Haven target demographic of young, affluent, with younger kids. Dont know just how many of us there are,min terms of customer base, though.

 

I have sailed on traditional cruises (HAL, RCI, etc) and I like it - but NOT with children. My kids can't/won't do 2 hour + dinner each night, and we don't want to fob them off at every opportunity, but do want a good kids program available.

 

None of us are into dressing in fancy clothes nightly ("acceptable" dress for non- formal dinners on the traditional lines tends to be what I wear to work - nice slacks, country cub casual tops. No, thanks, I'm on vacation!), and none of us like buffets.

 

NCL fits us like a glove.

 

 

I think the idea that NCL wishes to be like Celebrity is incorrect; I think they want to be like RCI, but better for the target demographic. And Freestyle makes them "better".

 

I also disagree that most of the "I"m fed up, I'm trying another line!" people coming to NCL are from Carnival. There's a couple of threads on here from RCI people who have tried NCL and have loved the experience.

 

None of us know the stats, of course. But that's my guess.

 

I have to question anyone who wants to leave NCL as their primary line because of the lack of formal dining. It has been Freestyle since we started cruising, and was an immediate hit with us. And on our last two cruises we thought the MDR and buffet food was improved over the past cruises.

 

Our past cruises were on Princess and DCL, so NCL is considered a "step down" from those lines. But we enjoy it more.

[Maraprince]

We have been on some top tier cruise lines. It is interesting that some of them are resort casual all the time (only go formal if you want for a special occasion) and the food is superb in both the dining rooms and buffets. There is also open seating for all meals because the ships have large enough dining spaces to accommodate all the passengers no matter at what time they show up to eat. That is definitely "Freestyle."

 

Those lines are a definite option for those who would like resort casual and excellent food.

 

We are also the type of passengers that NCL would like to attract back. For us to return, I would like a set cruise price that covers excellent food and any entertainment I would like to see without the need to reserve anything before I set foot on the ship..

 

 

Casual dressing on NCL is not on the same level as the other lines that are all-inclusive with a higher non-American passenger ratio. Freestyle restaurants on NCL tend to be small and unable to handle anywhere near even half the passengers. To say that Freestyle allows you to eat where you want, when you want and who you want to eat with really does not ring true if you need to make reservations for the Speciality Dining Rooms and some of the production shows before you even board the ship. Show up at "peak" dining times and you will be guaranteed a wait. I'd rather have an assigned table at a fix dining time with the same wait staff and just walk directly to my table and know I can eat and still make the show without leaving before coffee and dessert arrives.

 

The issue of cabin size does not equate to cabin pricing since booking early only guarantees you will pay a much higher price than someone booking close to the departure date. Yes, it does hurt to see the dramatic drop in pricing as the sail date nears. You really have to question whether there is any benefit to attaining Platinum status and booking early to "get the cabin level" you want.

 

MARAPRINCE

Edited June 26, 2016 by Maraprince

[Aquahound]

To say that Freestyle allows you to eat where you want, when you want and who you want to eat with really does not ring true if you need to make reservations for the Speciality Dining Rooms and some of the production shows before you even board the ship.

 

I don't think that statement ever rang true. Being handed a pager on Dawn, and trying to walk into a specialty restaurant on Escape only proved to me that the "where you want" and "when you want" are BS.

[baileytnt]

We never had to make reservations for any production show on the Pearl. In fact, they did not take them. Even MDR dining we were told for a couple that we would not need reservations.

 

There were definitely better times of day to eat the buffet to find seating. If you were a large group, it would definitely be a seating challenge to keep the group together.

 

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[baileytnt]

Nothing personal, but between the horrible food, and the free slob dressing, I walked away from a $2200 voucher from the POA repositioning cruise in March. The food was so bad, they took the shrimp cocktail off the suite lunch menu, and my husband who always dresses nicely, said he would not go on a cruise again. Well, I am going with my sister on X to Alaska, and DH and I are doing a b2b on X in Australia. We like a bit more class that NCL just doesn't have. Nothing against the passengers, but NCL has hit rock bottom in my opinion.

Well if that is your thing then NCL was definitely too casual. Personally some of the nicest people may dress like a slob, or not, and the rudest may dress the nicest, or not. I am personally comfortable in any dress but my hubs is not and I am sure there are many that feel that way. I just don't feel that good dress always classes up the place.

 

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[NLH Arizona]

Re: your last sentence. NCL is losing that customer like me who is used to spending $5-$6k for a week in a suite and feeling value. But now, NCL wants $7-9k or more for the same product. And since they are not selling they fire sale them by upsells so the guy next to you paid $3k. That is a big disparity for buying early and picking my suite first. No thanks!

 

I have always spent a ton on board too. Pricy excursions, spa, casino, specialty dining. My half usually runs me about $5k. So, we are looking at about $10k fot two.

 

So, that is what I am shopping around.

But we all have to remember that there is always someone to take our place.

[NLH Arizona]

To say that Freestyle allows you to eat where you want, when you want and who you want to eat with really does not ring true if you need to make reservations for the Speciality Dining Rooms and some of the production shows before you even board the ship. Show up at "peak" dining times and you will be guaranteed a wait.

 

I think it certainly rings true to freestyle. I make a reservation for when I want to eat and where I want to eat and with whom I want to eat with. The opposite of freestyle would be, I have to eat at 8:30, at the MDR and with the same people every night, unless I go to the buffet or specialty restaurant and that is what I do when I cruise on Celebrity or Crystal.