Lisa Lutoff-Perlo and X's new direction

[4774Papa]

Just a mention "Kevinyork", you may not use the word AFFLUENT to discribe yourself, but I bet many others would. According to your signature you cruise 2-3 times a year. And maybe in Suites? I have started to cruise as we have recently retired. We do regular old balconies. We live in Florida so can drive to the ports also. I know I would love the suites, but can't justifly the double, triple or more price tags. So far we haven't even done a specialty restaurant. The MDR has been wonderful on our 3 cruises. All different lines so far. Have 5 more booked for the next 2 years spread accross 5 different lines also. Checking everything out to see where we fit!

 

Affluent is a flexible concept. I would characterize affluent as financially comfortable. Not rich, since rich is when you don't question how much it costs. Your always fly first class or in your own private jet.

 

Having done 14 cruises (ocean) and four river cruises/land tours since I retired six years ago, we are not rich, but have the savings to travel internationally twice a year.

 

DW and I lived overseas over 20 years ago, and traveled a lot, taking the children with us. Then, we had to put the kids through college, that stopped the travel for a while.

 

We could afford a suite if we wanted to do that, but have only been in a suite once, via an upsell. We would never pay the up front costs of a suite. Also, we try to save by taking private tours and when we stay in hotels, we generally avoid the expensive hotel. We don't do specialty restaurants much on Celebrity, since the MDR food is excellent.

 

My parents were raised during the depression and waste was not an option. Also, watching what you spend just seems to come naturally.

We still have great trips. Life is good.

[bayonnejoe]

The thing is though, for the amount of money being spent, I personally don't just want a "pretty good vacation experience". if you're pleased with such an experience, that's just fine. I, however, am not.

 

IMO, I can get a fairly similar experience sailing with Carnival now and spend a lot less money.

 

I can say with no hesitation that when you say Carnival is a fairly similar experience, you would be in a very small minority.

[FLSteve11]

I was just going to say the same thing as Kevinyork regarding the press release announcing EQ in the Caribbean year round. As I said in my post yesterday LLP is not interested in keeping loyal customers. She wants attract new customers (families included) that are interested in doing overnights to attend things like the Jazz Festival in NO. What?! I book a cruise to be ON THE SHIP. Why not have a Jazz Festival ON THE SHIP? She wants people that want to "do stuff" not just enjoy the onboard experience.

 

Why?

 

Well think about it: You get off the ship, you'll eat off the ship (lowers food costs), you go to a Jazz Festival (or an opera in Rome, etc.) you don't need to have as many entertainers on board (lowers entertainment cost), while on shore the people will drink (lowers beverage costs) AND the ship isn't moving (lowers fuel costs). This isn't about what the guest wants it's understandably to make the line more profitable. But hey LLP in the words of Judge Judy "don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining".

 

She doesn't EVER say, "We've listened to our loyal guests and they've asked for..." Never.

 

As someone said earlier, do I want the X of the past? You mean when Michel Roux (Michelin starred chef) was the Executive Chef for the line, and X was known for being about top quality service and not about gimmicks and promotions, etc.? Yes. I do. Am I going to get it? Not with X. Does LLP care if I take my money elsewhere? She couldn't care less.

 

I'm going to disagree with part of this one. Most people DO want to "do things" when they sail. They want to get off in ports, do excursions, visit new locations and try out new things. That's part of the reason for cruising for the majority of people. That's why, outside of TA's (even they, outside of QM2, are extended to two weeks to add some ports in), there aren't any 7-night cruises to nowhere.

 

Now, that's not everyone, and I've certainly skipped some ports (and have had a cruise or two where I didn't really get off the ship), but it's the majority of people's view that they want to go to ports and get off the ship.

 

Besides, why does it matter for you? If you don't want to get off, don't get off. You don't have to get off on an overnight or see the Jazz festival (for example). You can still stay on the ship, get some drinks and eat onboard. There is still a show of at least a guest entertainer, and you have an emptier ship to use lounges and such that won't be as crowded. Seems like a win-win really.

[Arzeena]

To be honest, I was a bit fearful when I booked our first Celebrity cruise. So many "get off my lawn" types of posts. If I wanted to vacation with grumpy old folks I could have stayed home and pitched a tent in the parking lot of my Publix.....

 

This is so thruthfully funny!!!! :D

[okiehokiepokie]

So I just scanned an online article from the NY Times about life at Fox News after Roger Ailes's departure. Change a few words and the point at the end of the article is very appropriate to both X, her future, LLP's challenge, and this thread:

 

“A broader course correction is necessary at Fox News — they must attract younger viewers — and that kind of effort will be extremely difficult because its loyal viewers have such rigid expectations".

 

Or, with my wine influenced modifications :-):

 

“A broader course correction is necessary at Celebrity Cruses — they must attract younger cruisers — and that kind of effort will be extremely difficult because its loyal cruisers have such rigid expectations.

 

Cheers,

OHP

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Working as a travel agent the majority of cruisers I work with voice their desire to have longer port times, more ports, fewer days at sea, etc. There is a contingent (like many on here, myself included) who cruise for the ship and the days at sea. We are in the minority as passengers. Look at the number of posts on all the cruise line boards complaining about "ho-hum" and "boring" itineraries. Look at the number of 7nt cruises that shoehorn an extra port in (sometimes with less than desirable port times) just to advertise 4 destinations (or more) in 7days. The cruise lines are actually responding to the customer in this regard.

 

All the cruise lines are trying to attract younger clients that will spend more on cruise line sponsored shore tours, spa treatments, specialty dining, high end shopping, casino gaming, beverage packages, etc. I would say that all the changes at Celebrity, and other lines as well, are to appeal to this consumer segment. The changes will force some "old guard" cruisers to look/book elsewhere, but be assured the cruise lines have looked long and hard at spending habits and know which clients they can afford to lose.

 

It is human nature to dislike change and to want the "good ole days", but businesses that do not evolve, change, and seek out newer or more profitable customers run the risk of disappearing completely.

Edited July 21, 2016 by AtlantaCruiser72

[ChucktownSteve]

All the cruise lines are trying to attract younger clients that will spend more on cruise line sponsored shore tours, spa treatments, specialty dining, high end shopping, casino gaming, beverage packages, etc. I would say that all the changes at Celebrity, and other lines as well, are to appeal to this consumer segment. The changes will force some "old guard" cruisers to look/book elsewhere, but be assured the cruise lines have looked long and hard at spending habits and know which clients they can afford to lose.

 

It is human nature to dislike change and to want the "good ole days", but businesses that do not evolve, change, and seek out newer or more profitable customers run the risk of disappearing completely.

 

Truer words were never spoken. As businesses raise prices, they expect to lose perhaps about 20% of their customer base...usually the less profitable ones. The key though is not to do too much too soon before you can replace them with the higher spenders.

 

In business I never sold based upon low price. Those customers aren't loyal or appreciative. The best way to maintain rate card is to have a unique position and include value added things with a high perceived customer value but with a low out of pocket expense. Celebrity seems to be reducing those items to save money.

 

Remember what happened when they first removed the pillow chocolate then brought back a cheaper version? Removed daily aqua class water? Changed the custom blended bath products? Reduce real activities and replace them with revenue generating programs. There are a lot more examples I'm sure.

 

Business can't be all things to all people. Consumers become confused by the mixed messages. Cruise Critic members are more attuned to what's happening in cruising; more so than the general population. Is Modern Luxury Celebrity's consumer perception or is it the Caribbean family vacation? Vacationing Summer families tend to pre-plan all of their activities and budget closely. I'm confused so I guess that's why I'm considering moving up. I don't buy the Modern Luxury position and don't want to sail with a bunch of kids or spring breakers.

 

Only time will tell whether LLP's direction is successful or misses the mark.

 

MARCO....

Edited July 21, 2016 by ChucktownSteve

[DanaDanes]

Well I suppose I am part of the "target demographic". Early 40s, 2 kids, dual income. And guess what no student loans :). AND I don't mooch off of my parents. Shocking to some here in sure.

 

We LOVED our celebrity cruise. We went without the kids this time. The marketing resonated with me. The decor appealed to me. The entertainment was just right - loved the type of enrichment offered, adored the cafe al baccio, the fee fitness, the Persian garden, and the smaller suite restaurant.

 

I for one an intrigued by the "summer camp at sea" for my kids.

 

White glove service and glitzy ships are not valuable to me.

 

So, I'd say it's working. I thought I was too young to cruise - now I have another booked and another in the works!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[DYKWIA]

Working as a travel agent the majority of cruisers I work with voice their desire to have longer port times, more ports, fewer days at sea, etc. .... The cruise lines are actually responding to the customer in this regard.

 

..... I would say that all the changes at Celebrity, and other lines as well, are to appeal to this consumer segment. ....

 

But are Celebrity actually doing this?

 

I've compared a Celebrity Cruise to the Canaries with Royal Caribbean and they seem to be doing exactly the opposite.

 

• Celebrity's cruise is shorter by 1 day (13vs14 nights)
  
• - offers 5 ports vs Royal Caribbean's 9.
  
• The time in port is less on Celebrity.
  
• Celebrity spend an extra 12% at sea.
  
• Most surprising Celebrity take an extra 23 HOURS to get to the same first port of call.
  
• The overnight in port in reality is only really 13 hours off ship time (assuming you're sleeping on board) split over 2 days.
  

 

Next year Celebrity cut the cruise back further - it will be 11 nights with 6 sea days and 4 ports (there will be a 10 day option with slightly less sea days) - 36 hours port time - about 87% of your time at sea!

[K.T.B.]

I can say with no hesitation that when you say Carnival is a fairly similar experience, you would be in a very small minority.

 

In comparing the last 2 cruises I've taken just in terms of service, the service in the MDR was basically the same with the waitstaff, but Carnival was more on the ball with having cocktail servers in the MDR who were actually serving. Bar service was far superior with Carnival. Room stewards were equal to one another. Buffet servers were similar, no one really going out of their way to do that little extra.

 

In other areas, the food quality in the MDR was definitely better on Celebrity, but the buffet on Carnival was better. The staff, as a whole, was very similar, though the command staff was far more visible on Celebrity.

 

IMO, Celebrity has nearly brought itself down to Carnival's level of service. My cruise on Summit was probably the best cruise I've ever been on. Excellent service, fantastic food, extremely helpful staff. THAT experience I had with Celebrity I have not gotten on the last 2 cruises with them.

[Iamcruzin]

OK I've got one. Replacing live music with DJ loud, blaring music in the atrium so you can't speak with anyone at the nearby venues.

I don't think that this will attract younger or new cruisers. It's just a way of cutting cost by not providing live entertainment.

 

 

Queen Lisa doesn't necessarily want to chase off the old farts but wants to add more to the bottom line by cutting costs. If chasing off the expensive Elite/Elite Plus perk suckers saves money, the more the better. The younger ones don't get what's been cut yet.

 

Thus to use a metaphor, a person who's never tasted steak loves the flavor of hamburger and is happy.

You hit the nail on the head with this statement/QUOTE]

 

 

All of these cruise lines who pushed these loyalty programs shot themselves in the foot because over time you only have to up the ante to keep people interested. This must have had some cost effect through loss onboard spending from elites and elite plus or they wouldn't have changed the criteria for reaching higher levels. If they want to attract new and younger passengers maybe they should offer a discount coupon or OBC to those who reach a level 10 on Pokemon Go and have some Pokemon planted on board

[Iamcruzin]

Ok, fine. Let us say that all three of those were put in place solely to attract younger cruisers (not likely). That's not aligned with the point the OP made, and agreed to by plenty of posters. How are any of those changes "alienating loyal customers" or "destroying the brand". You're saying people are going to switch to Oceania because LLP is now offering Unlimited Internet? Really?

 

And regarding Bistro on Five...it is commonly stated on this board that very few to any passengers go there. We do, but only on embarkment day for a stress free lunch. So not seeing how Loyal Customers should feel they have given up SO MUCH to give the Gen Xer's "their" Fish Bait on Five.

 

So, please fellow CCer's ......help me understand what I am giving up by way of LLP's actions in order for her to attract younger cruisers. How, specifically, is she "alienating loyal customers" or "destroying the brand" in her efforts to attract younger cruisers.

 

So far what we have is..... the large speakers at the pool area on some ships. What else is she doing to attract younger cruisers that is "destroying the brand"??

 

Cheers,

OHP

Boomers grew up listening to loud music so I don't even buy the statement that it's to attract a younger crowd. One could also argue that the music is loud so us old folk can hear it. Listening to loud music all those years at concerts and in the discos is the cause of our hearing loss.

[scotslass]

Reading all these posts some people come across as hankering for the"old days". I am 69 and DH is 73 and we have just enjoyed a fabulous cruise on the Equinox . It was every bit as good as the first cruise with Celebrity in 2004 and all the others since. Yes there are things we miss like everyone dressing up on formal nights and we don't like the loud music in the martini bar but we are not the only people on the ship and they have to cater for a wide age range and people from lots of different countries. I have been on Pand O and Cunard sailing from Southampton and they were like floating old folks homes . I would rather have the younger vibe of Celebrity any day!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[CruisingChick]

those who reach a level 10 on Pokemon Go and have some Pokemon planted on board

 

Maybe then I could finally get our 26 year old son back on a cruise ship. He hasn't cruised with us since he was 16. He and his friends have no desire to cruise.

Edited July 21, 2016 by CruisingChick

[CruiserRob]

Maybe then I could finally get our 26 year old son back on a cruise ship. He hasn't cruised with us since he was 16. He and his friends have no desire to cruise.

 

Our 27 year old daughter is still willing to do any cruise that daddy will pay for:D

[20pluscruises]

Reading all these posts some people come across as hankering for the"old days". I am 69 and DH is 73 and we have just enjoyed a fabulous cruise on the Equinox . It was every bit as good as the first cruise with Celebrity in 2004 and all the others since. Yes there are things we miss like everyone dressing up on formal nights and we don't like the loud music in the martini bar but we are not the only people on the ship and they have to cater for a wide age range and people from lots of different countries. I have been on Pand O and Cunard sailing from Southampton and they were like floating old folks homes . I would rather have the younger vibe of Celebrity any day!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

If hankering for the "old days" is 2015 versus 2016...then yes, I am hankering for the old days.

[CruisingChick]

Our 27 year old daughter is still willing to do any cruise that daddy will pay for:D

 

Lucky you. My son is more interested in hiking, camping, traveling to Korea, Shangai (yes cruises go there but they can't afford those). They stay in hostels or with friends from college, etc.

 

We might be getting him in Eclipse next May 2017 for Ireland/Iceland cruise, we have it booked but need to wait until final payment to see what his work schedule is.

 

That's another thing about most younger people they don't have that much vacation time or flexibility. As for all these affluent young people I would love to meet some because I don't know any. Heck I don't know any old affluent people either.

[Swampbabe]

In comparing the last 2 cruises I've taken just in terms of service, the service in the MDR was basically the same with the waitstaff, but Carnival was more on the ball with having cocktail servers in the MDR who were actually serving. Bar service was far superior with Carnival. Room stewards were equal to one another. Buffet servers were similar, no one really going out of their way to do that little extra.

 

 

 

In other areas, the food quality in the MDR was definitely better on Celebrity, but the buffet on Carnival was better. The staff, as a whole, was very similar, though the command staff was far more visible on Celebrity.

 

 

 

IMO, Celebrity has nearly brought itself down to Carnival's level of service. My cruise on Summit was probably the best cruise I've ever been on. Excellent service, fantastic food, extremely helpful staff. THAT experience I had with Celebrity I have not gotten on the last 2 cruises with them.

 

 

 

That's too bad. My Reflection cruise was so far superior to my Breeze cruise I can't see us ever cruising Carnival again. I can't speak to bar service in the MDR as I get my before dinner cocktail at the Martini bar and have wine with my meal. I found the sommelier to be knowledgable and prompt. I thought the buffet selection to be superior to that of the Breeze.

 

My biggest difference is the clientele. Night and day.

[needmorevacations]

I have been on Pand O and Cunard sailing from Southampton and they were like floating old folks homes . I would rather have the younger vibe of Celebrity any day!

 

Celebrity is ultimately trying to be the most 'refined' and 'luxury' of the lines that are not floating old folks homes. It's a fine line because the industry as a whole floats the old folks home anyway. Of course then you have the 'summer camp' and the 'spring breaker' crowds that basically all try to avoid each other.

 

I would love top luxury and am willing to pay for it in the small doses my vacation days limits mandate but the more luxurious lines are not my demographic and doesn't always fit the style of vacation I want at that time (sedentary older people, potentially just as cranky but about the even higher quality they are already receiving). A good balance for me had been Windstar but sometimes I want the 'energy' of a bigger ship and not just cigars and stars after dinner.

 

I will say that the suite concept on Celebrity seems to circumvent all the service complaints people have been discussing. The bartending/wine stewards in Michaels/Luminea have been amazing. Room amenities and so forth are top notch. Yes, they cost more and maybe there was that level of quality 'before' for less money. Service overall refined enough but not stuffy.

 

Obviously there's something that keeps everyone here coming back, even if it is to complain further about the past. It can't be stupid elite benefits that amount to a small fraction of their cruise dollars that most people in that bucket wouldn't have spent on those services without the coupon to begin with.

[TomTN]

Lucky you. son is more interested in hiking, camping, traveling to Korea, Shangai (yes cruises go there but they can't afford those). They stay in hostels or with friends from college, etc.

 

We might be getting him in Eclipse next May 2017 for Ireland/Iceland cruise, we have it booked but need to wait until final payment to see what his work schedule is.

 

That's another thing about most younger people they don't have that much vacation time or flexibility. As for all these affluent young people I would love to meet some because I don't know any. Heck I don't know any old affluent people either.

 

Your son is doing what we did in the 70s. And we camped in tents with our children. Yep, hiked the parks.

As we have gotten older cruising is a gentler and easier way to see the world. I suspect that most cruisers will continue to be 50+.

[CruisingChick]

Obviously there's something that keeps everyone here coming back, even if it is to complain further about the past. It can't be stupid elite benefits that amount to a small fraction of their cruise dollars that most people in that bucket wouldn't have spent on those services without the coupon to begin with.

 

Yes, actually our Elite+ benefits are a big reason we do sail Celebrity and have not tried Princess - YET. We were just about to "jump ship" when Celebiry enhanced the Elite benefits and then stuck with Celebrity, now we are Elite+ and it's hard for us to start over again on another cruise line.

 

What keeps us coming back is overall Celebrity is better than RCCL in food and service and we cannot afford Crystal, Seabourn, Oceania, Azamara, etc. Wish we could.

Edited July 21, 2016 by CruisingChick

[ChucktownSteve]

I suspect that most cruisers will continue to be 50+.

 

NOT if LLP gets her way. :D

[TomTN]

Yes, actually our Elite+ benefits are a big reason we do sail Celebrity and have not tried Princess - YET. We were just about to "jump ship" when theCelebiry enhanced the Elite benefits and then stuck with Celebrity, now we are Elite+ and it's hard for us to start over again on another cruise line.

 

What keeps us coming back is overall Celebrity is better than RCCL in food and service and we cannot afford Crystal, Seabourn, Oceania, Azamara, etc. Wish we could.

 

You should probably try Princess. They seem to be the line most often compared to X.

They should have a itinerary that is different. Travel agents offer good discounts.

But, research their ships. Some are very overcrowded.

Fwiw, we have sailed on Princess one time. Because we have relatives that will only sail on Princess we will likely do it again.

[needmorevacations]

Yes, actually our Elite+ benefits are a big reason we do sail Celebrity and have not tried Princess - YET. We were just about to "jump ship" when theCelebiry enhanced the Elite benefits and then stuck with Celebrity, now we are Elite+ and it's hard for us to start over again on another cruise line.

 

May I ask what dollar amount you associate with these perks that you would have truly chosen to spend regardless of if they weren't included? Compared again to the dollars spent on the cruise I would estimate a small fraction. I just don't think the 'points game' is worth sacrificing experimenting with other brands. Vacations cost a good amount of money and of course every bit helps but if drink packages are becoming a norm and you can do without laundry perks (or pay) we can't be held hostage by the loyalty schemes.

[Can'tstopcruising]

We book inside cabins (yes, I know we are a rarity!).

 

We know, that on Celebrity ships, the inside is the same size as the balcony cabin.

 

On another line, the inside may be a closet and we would have to upgrade to get a decent size cabin.

 

We try to cruise as cheaply as possible (which, in high season, certainly isn't cheap anymore!)