No Gratuities

[mafig]

The OP has cruised on Oceania where the daily gratuities are like $15 day p/p.

 

OP, did you remove the tips on O also?

[whogo]

I heard today that if you stop at reception after embarking and tell them that you are not paying the on board gratuities and will tip out on your own discretion.They have you sign off and thats it.It was a Celebrity line.....any truth to this??

 

True. From the Celebrity website:

What is Celebrity’s automatic gratuity program?

For your convenience, we automatically add gratuities for your restaurant and stateroom services to your onboard SeaPass® account on a daily basis in the following amounts, which may be adjusted at your discretion:

 

• $12.95 per person, per day in standard accommodations ($13.50 for cruises departing on or after July 1, 2016)
  
• $13.45 per person, per day in Concierge Class and AquaClass® staterooms ($14.00 for cruises departing on or after July 1, 2016)
  
• $16.45 per person, per day in suites ($17.00 for cruises departing on or after July 1, 2016)
  

This gratuity is shared by your stateroom attendant, dining services staff, and housekeeping staff members who help enhance your vacation experience. At your discretion, the gratuity payments may be adjusted onboard at Guest Relations, in which case they will not automatically be added to your onboard SeaPass® account. An 18% gratuity will be automatically added to all beverages, mini bar purchases, spa and salon services. Additional gratuities may be added at your discretion.

http://www.celebritycruises.com/frequently-asked-questions#faq5993

[John Bull]

Johnbull, you sound cheap. WE tip according to service. My wife worked in a Hoidy-Toidy Restaurant and the worst tippers-least generous were the rich. Little old ladies from Middleburg Horse Country Where Mellons of Mellon Bank live, would ask for a hot saucer, hot cup and hot cup of water and use their own tea bag. Football players from the Redskins would come in, spend $300.00 on a meal with bottle of wine and tip her 0. She earned $2.42/hr. The more I give away the more it seems I get back to give away. You can't out give GOD. Try it.

 

My tip for you would be, "Don't read baloney labels!":eek:

 

Hi, Whupper,

 

No, it's I who tip according to service.

YOU tip because it's the American (or North American) way, and because service staff in the US get low wages.

And its clear from your anecdotes that the US system is flawed & open to abuse by cheapskates.

When in America I tip in restaurants & bars 15% to 20% as most Americans do. But although front-liners might share their tips, I don't tip the "background" staff who launder the sheets or clean the pool or put out the kitchen garbage or man fast-food outlets. Neither do Americans - except on cruise ships.

 

But the $2.42 per hour wage that you mention would be illegal in the UK, where we have a minimum wage of currently about $8.60 per hour. Tips on top of wages are truly discretionary & earned by good service.

Bread and butter from the pay packet, jelly from tips.

 

The American way has gradually crossed the Pond, and more & more restaurants in tourist areas in Britain and elsewhere in Europe apply a service charge, usually 15%. And just like cruise lines, they do that to make their published prices look cheaper than they are.

The British way is that you pay the price on the ticket, and choose to give a tip. So I avoid such places as often as I can, because it's not the British way. And when I do use one, just like on US cruise ships I leave the service charge on but don't tip extra.

In other words, I tip - but I regard it as bonkers to tip twice for the same thing. :confused:

Matter of principle, not a matter of cheap-skating.;)

 

JB :)

[BruceMuzz]

Sounds like you cousin is an bit of an a$$. Don't assume that rest of Canadians are like that.

i travel with family and friends, our next cruise in Feb there will be 14 of us, on our last one there was 8 and all of us leave on the auto grats and usually tip extra.

Lois

 

At the conclusion of every voyage, the Purser sends me a report, detailing many financial aspects of the just-completed cruise.

These details include tips received, tips adjusted up, tips adjusted down, tips removed, and by whom. That "by whom" category is then broken down by cabin category and by nationality.

 

The highest percentage of tips removed is invariably done by those in the least expensive cabins.

In the nationality column, the highest percentage of tips removed:

#1 Aussies

#2 Brits

#3 Canadians

 

The top 3 never change.

Positions 4 and below change based on the nationality mix.

[slidergirl]

Hi, Whupper,

 

No, it's I who tip according to service.

YOU tip because it's the American (or North American) way, and because service staff in the US get low wages.

And its clear from your anecdotes that the US system is flawed & open to abuse by cheapskates.

When in America I tip in restaurants & bars 15% to 20% as most Americans do. But although front-liners might share their tips, I don't tip the "background" staff who launder the sheets or clean the pool or put out the kitchen garbage or man fast-food outlets. Neither do Americans - except on cruise ships.

 

But the $2.42 per hour wage that you mention would be illegal in the UK, where we have a minimum wage of currently about $8.60 per hour. Tips on top of wages are truly discretionary & earned by good service.

Bread and butter from the pay packet, jelly from tips.

 

The American way has gradually crossed the Pond, and more & more restaurants in tourist areas in Britain and elsewhere in Europe apply a service charge, usually 15%. And just like cruise lines, they do that to make their published prices look cheaper than they are.

The British way is that you pay the price on the ticket, and choose to give a tip. So I avoid such places as often as I can, because it's not the British way. And when I do use one, just like on US cruise ships I leave the service charge on but don't tip extra.

In other words, I tip - but I regard it as bonkers to tip twice for the same thing. :confused:

Matter of principle, not a matter of cheap-skating.;)

 

JB :)

 

Those who are washing the sheets, cleaning the pool, are making a higher hourly wage than those in "tipping" positions. It's the way it works here. The tipped positions may be payed very much lower than the minimum wage legally. Where I live, the stated legal hourly wage for servers is $2.13. The state government this year voted down an attempt to raise it to $7.25. Many times, my server friends see a $0 check after taxes, FICA, are taken out. Those pool cleaners must paid the minimum of $7.25/hr, provided they are being paid by an employer having them legally "on the books"...

[iheartbda]

It seems very patronising to insist people do not remove gratuities. It's an American culture to tip automatically. There are other cultures in the world where this is not the practice. Some prefer to tip when they receive service above and beyond the norm. What staff are required to do with these chosen gratuities is not the guest's concern. After all there are automatic tips on just about everything else eg drinks and a significant amount is generated from this source. Double dipping is wrong and should be left up to the guest to decide.:mad:

 

Anyway this subject has been done to death on these boards time and again. There will never be consensus.

I get so tired of this argument. OK, you're not from a tipping culture BUT, you are on a cruise ship and the powers that be have decided on a gratuities model that works reasonably well. Americans did not start invent tipping on ships. What other things beside drinks are there automatic gratuities?:confused: Spa services do but the spa is run by an independent company

[Cruisin' Chick]

It seems very patronising to insist people do not remove gratuities. It's an American culture to tip automatically. There are other cultures in the world where this is not the practice. Some prefer to tip when they receive service above and beyond the norm. What staff are required to do with these chosen gratuities is not the guest's concern. After all there are automatic tips on just about everything else eg drinks and a significant amount is generated from this source. Double dipping is wrong and should be left up to the guest to decide.:mad:

 

Anyway this subject has been done to death on these boards time and again. There will never be consensus.

 

double dipping? If you're suggesting that charging gratuities on beverages is double dipping, that's ridiculous and has nothing to do with the auto-grats. Not everyone buys drinks...and won't be charged those gratuities

 

For the OP, please leave on your gratuities. It will be so much easier than carrying around currency on board and tipping as you get service. If you do have problems with crew members (which would be the only reason to go to the front desk to remove your tips), try to resolve matters right away. But if that isn't the issue, you will actually be reducing the amount you're giving to your waitstaff and cabin steward with your method.

[WupperAV]

John Bull, I apologize and now understand a little better what you are saying. We have travelled Europe, (My Father in law lives in Rome) My wife studies tipping everywhere we go, in advance and is up to date on it. Don't blame me for the tipping fiasco. I don't run this train, can't blow the whistle. Just get blamed for the wrecks.

 

We weren't arguing, we were having a shindy!

Edited October 8, 2016 by WupperAV

[electro]

At the conclusion of every voyage, the Purser sends me a report, detailing many financial aspects of the just-completed cruise.

These details include tips received, tips adjusted up, tips adjusted down, tips removed, and by whom. That "by whom" category is then broken down by cabin category and by nationality.

 

The highest percentage of tips removed is invariably done by those in the least expensive cabins.

In the nationality column, the highest percentage of tips removed:

#1 Aussies

#2 Brits

#3 Canadians

 

The top 3 never change.

Positions 4 and below change based on the nationality mix.

 

But what is that in real numbers.

If there are 2000 Americans on board and 200 Canadian even if 2 Canadians remove it it is a much higher percentage than if 2 Americans remove it.

Lois

[John Bull]

Those who are washing the sheets, cleaning the pool, are making a higher hourly wage than those in "tipping" positions. It's the way it works here. The tipped positions may be payed very much lower than the minimum wage legally. Where I live, the stated legal hourly wage for servers is $2.13. The state government this year voted down an attempt to raise it to $7.25. Many times, my server friends see a $0 check after taxes, FICA, are taken out. Those pool cleaners must paid the minimum of $7.25/hr, provided they are being paid by an employer having them legally "on the books"...

 

 

Hi, Slidergirl,

Yep, that's my point.

"The American way" is that service staff like waiters are poorly paid and rely on good tips, whereas those background staff get decent wages but no expectation of tips.

But on American cruise ships ALL hotel-side staff receive next-to-nothing wages and ALL rely on a share of the tips, and that's not "the American way".

 

Hi Cruisin' chick

No, you mis-understand.

By double-tipping (double-dipping) I mean cruisers are expected to "tip" a set daily amount - which I do, by leaving the auto-tip on - but folk suggest that for particularly good service a cash tip should be added for particular staff such as the cabin steward or dining room waiter.

The auto-tip includes those folk.

So that's two tips for them.

So yes, I tip. But I don't tip folk twice.

 

You mention the drinks service charge, which many cruise lines still call "tip" or "gratuity".

That's the American way, and that's OK by me.

But on the drinks tab, as well as the 15%, there's a line for the cruiser to add more if they wish.

Again, I see that as double-tipping.

 

Hi again, Wupper.

No need for an apology - if I apologised to everyone I disagreed with, I'd save my typing finger by incorporating a standard apology in my signature line ;)

Anyway, it turns out we don't disagree.

Well, not much ;)

 

Hi Bruce,

Your figures come as no great surprise...........

There's no tipping culture in Australia.

There's a limited tipping culture in the UK

(I don't know the tipping culture in Canada)

And the auto-tips represent a much much higher percentage of the fare to passengers in the cheaper cabin categories than to those in more-expensive cabins. I'm not justifying the removal of tips, I just understand why.

 

But one thing puzzles me, Bruce......

Are Chinese & Japanese cruisers too small a sample to make that list?

Both countries have a broadly no-tipping culture. And Star Cruises, which operates out of S E Asia with a mainly Asian clientele, consequently has a no-tipping policy.

Or perhaps for those booking from China & Japan, US cruise lines increase their ticket prices to include tips, the same as many do for cruises out of Australia?

 

BTW, we were mildly ripped-off when booking, through a UK T/A, a Princess cruise out of Sydney as part of a trip down-under. In the bartering for a better deal, the T/A offered to include the tips.

Great, we thought, that's a significant saving.

But it turned out that there was no auto-tip on the cruise, tips were included in EVERYONE'S ticket price. :rolleyes:

Live & learn ;)

 

JB :)

Edited October 8, 2016 by John Bull

[BruceMuzz]

But what is that in real numbers.

If there are 2000 Americans on board and 200 Canadian even if 2 Canadians remove it it is a much higher percentage than if 2 Americans remove it.

Lois

 

Please read my post again. I'm not talking about percentages of passengers or nationalities, but percentages of money.

I stated that the highest percentage of tips (money) is removed by just three nationalities.

American cruisers are generally more comfortable and more familiar with tipping on cruise ships (even though the very first cruise line to introduce and promote this system was British).

 

If my ship is carrying 2,000 American passengers and 100 passengers from Australia, UK, and Canada, the 100 non-US passengers will generally remove more money from the gratuity pool than the 2,000 Americans.

Edited October 8, 2016 by BruceMuzz

[BruceMuzz]

Hi, Slidergirl,

Yep, that's my point.

"The American way" is that service staff like waiters are poorly paid and rely on good tips, whereas those background staff get decent wages but no expectation of tips.

But on American cruise ships ALL hotel-side staff receive next-to-nothing wages and ALL rely on a share of the tips, and that's not "the American way".

 

Hi Cruisin' chick

No, you mis-understand.

By double-tipping (double-dipping) I mean cruisers are expected to "tip" a set daily amount - which I do, by leaving the auto-tip on - but folk suggest that for particularly good service a cash tip should be added for particular staff such as the cabin steward or dining room waiter.

The auto-tip includes those folk.

So that's two tips for them.

So yes, I tip. But I don't tip folk twice.

 

You mention the drinks service charge, which many cruise lines still call "tip" or "gratuity".

That's the American way, and that's OK by me.

But on the drinks tab, as well as the 15%, there's a line for the cruiser to add more if they wish.

Again, I see that as double-tipping.

 

Hi again, Wupper.

No need for an apology - if I apologised to everyone I disagreed with, I'd save my typing finger by incorporating a standard apology in my signature line ;)

Anyway, it turns out we don't disagree.

Well, not much ;)

 

Hi Bruce,

Your figures come as no great surprise...........

There's no tipping culture in Australia.

There's a limited tipping culture in the UK

(I don't know the tipping culture in Canada)

And the auto-tips represent a much much higher percentage of the fare to passengers in the cheaper cabin categories than to those in more-expensive cabins. I'm not justifying the removal of tips, I just understand why.

 

But one thing puzzles me, Bruce......

Are Chinese & Japanese cruisers too small a sample to make that list?

Both countries have a broadly no-tipping culture. And Star Cruises, which operates out of S E Asia with a mainly Asian clientele, consequently has a no-tipping policy.

Or perhaps for those booking from China & Japan, US cruise lines increase their ticket prices to include tips, the same as many do for cruises out of Australia?

 

BTW, we were mildly ripped-off when booking, through a UK T/A, a Princess cruise out of Sydney as part of a trip down-under. In the bartering for a better deal, the T/A offered to include the tips.

Great, we thought, that's a significant saving.

But it turned out that there was no auto-tip on the cruise, tips were included in EVERYONE'S ticket price. :rolleyes:

Live & learn ;)

 

JB :)

 

JB!

A very well thought out post. I agree with you.

 

However, the no-tipping culture in Australia seems to be changing rapidly. This year, when my ship visited Australia, many crew went to restaurants on shore and were charged a non- negotiable service charge - sometimes as high as 30%!!!

When they questioned the charge, they were told that it was a weekend or holiday, so the servers had to be paid extra. Many times it was not a weekend or holiday. The restaurants just saw an opportunity to shake down visitors.

 

Although tipping is virtually non-existent in Japan (it is considered an insult); and tipping is rare in China, both groups are sophististicated enough to understand very well that when in an international setting, their local laws and customs from home do not apply.

Japanese and Chinese are both usually very good about following the service charge programs.

[navybankerteacher]

I bet that when you brought up this subject you didn't know how judgemental and rude posters on this forum can be. One even called you a cheapskate. If I were you, I would ignore their rudeness and do what suits you.

 

Since I did not notice anyone else using the term "cheapskate", I believe I was the poster you decided to MISQUOTE - I pointed out to OP that with a valid reason, other than being a cheapskate , he could remove the service charge.

 

That is NOT calling him a cheapskate - rather simply advising that the action he was asking about might result in his being considered one.

 

I hope he has enough sense to consider the advice (no actual rudeness - unless you misidentify frank advice as such) given him by most responders - and ignore yours.

[notentirelynormal]

You mention the drinks service charge, which many cruise lines still call "tip" or "gratuity".

That's the American way, and that's OK by me.

But on the drinks tab, as well as the 15%, there's a line for the cruiser to add more if they wish.

Again, I see that as double-tipping.

 

I just want to clarify this. If you write in $2 for a tip on your drink it goes into the pool. So your server gets, like a dime. If you really want to tip your bartender please do it in person.

[GUT2407]

Gratuities are included in the cruise fares sold in Australia. I wish they would do that in the US, but I can't change their marketing with the low price + add on charges. I go with the flow and do not remove gratuities.

 

Yet not all lines do it in Australia, basically those under the Carnival umbrella include it in the fare, those under the Celebrity umbrella don't (simplifying it a little i know) but celebrity et al, continue to do good business down here, maybe we're just smart enough to know that the fare looks lower because we're going to pay about $100 a head extra each week we are onboard.

[iheartbda]

..............

Hi Cruisin' chick

No, you mis-understand.

By double-tipping (double-dipping) I mean cruisers are expected to "tip" a set daily amount - which I do, by leaving the auto-tip on - but folk suggest that for particularly good service a cash tip should be added for particular staff such as the cabin steward or dining room waiter.

The auto-tip includes those folk.

So that's two tips for them.

So yes, I tip. But I don't tip folk twice.

.................

I have not seen many people saying a cash tip should be added, most say a tip COULD be added. People have asked if they were to give extra, over and above the auto-tip, what have others given. Many times, posters will also say that if the auto-tips are left on, their obligation is met and they and they do NOT need to add anything more.

 

I saw at least one person claiming that people say what amount should be given as exrta. Once again, people were only saying a specific amount since someone asked the norm if someone chooses to do so..

 

You mention the drinks service charge, which many cruise lines still call "tip" or "gratuity".

That's the American way, and that's OK by me.

But on the drinks tab, as well as the 15%, there's a line for the cruiser to add more if they wish.

Again, I see that as double-tipping.

Yes, one could consider that double tipping but you said, "if they wish", so anyone who does probably is ok with it and just considers it a bit more. Sometimes I tip a little extra on drinks and sometimes I don't but I know I don't have to.:)

[mildew1951]

Gratuities are included in the cruise fares sold in Australia.

 

Not true.......it's optional

[mildew1951]

It is arrogant to insist that the way things are done in your own country is the only way it should be done world wide.

 

My point exactly

[mildew1951]

It's not being a cheapskate and it's not about morals or principles.........it's all about choice. If the cruise line wants us to pay gratuities then include it in the fare. Otherwise it is optional.....we have a choice.

 

Tips on drinks etc are mandatory ie we have no choice so we pay. Fair enough.....them's the rules.

 

Like I said previously, there will never be consensus so we are all banging our jaws for nothing.:rolleyes:

[GUT2407]

Not true.......it's optional

 

Actually it depends on the line.

[iheartbda]

It's not being a cheapskate and it's not about morals or principles.........it's all about choice. If the cruise line wants us to pay gratuities then include it in the fare. Otherwise it is optional.....we have a choice.

 

Tips on drinks etc are mandatory ie we have no choice so we pay. Fair enough.....them's the rules.

 

Like I said previously, there will never be consensus so we are all banging our jaws for nothing.:rolleyes:

If they would be included in the fare you would be paying them so why would you, or do you, have an issue with paying them separately?:confused:

[bazbov]

Hi everyone, Without wishing to add more flames to the fire, We cruise very regularly with Costa cruises, They add a non removable service charge/tip/gratuity whatever you wish to call it.We know that we have to factor this cost into the cruise and do so happily. We Know that this is split between ALL non salaried staff.

Yes,many of these staff are on what we consider to be breadline wages, but having talked extensively with some of the staff and indeed visited some who we now consider friends in their home country. The cruise line and staff agencys have worked out a deal appropriate to the many different countries that cruise line companys employ. The vast majority of staff on cruise lines happily return year after year and often have enough money at the end of their time on ship to do the things they would not be able to do had they not worked on the cruise lines. Our friends for instance now have their own successful business.

 

Different countries have differing cultures and we accept that, just as we accept that different countries have different pricing structures for cruises.

again for example a Costa cruise in Spain is offered with extra incentives yet the same cruise if booked in Britain will not come with those extras.

 

Looking at cruise prices in America, sometimes we are astounded at the low price you can get a cruise for, yet we cant go on the american cruise companys web site and book a cruise for that price. We just have to accept that that's the way it is.

 

My intention is not to upset anybody,but we all have our own opinions and what is right for someone is not right for another. Putting it simply,there is no right and wrong way,just do what your conscience tell you. Happy cruising. :)

[GUT2407]

Hi everyone, Without wishing to add more flames to the fire, We cruise very regularly with Costa cruises, They add a non removable service charge/tip/gratuity whatever you wish to call it.We know that we have to factor this cost into the cruise and do so happily. We Know that this is split between ALL non salaried staff.

Yes,many of these staff are on what we consider to be breadline wages, but having talked extensively with some of the staff and indeed visited some who we now consider friends in their home country. The cruise line and staff agencys have worked out a deal appropriate to the many different countries that cruise line companys employ. The vast majority of staff on cruise lines happily return year after year and often have enough money at the end of their time on ship to do the things they would not be able to do had they not worked on the cruise lines. Our friends for instance now have their own successful business.

 

Different countries have differing cultures and we accept that, just as we accept that different countries have different pricing structures for cruises.

again for example a Costa cruise in Spain is offered with extra incentives yet the same cruise if booked in Britain will not come with those extras.

 

Looking at cruise prices in America, sometimes we are astounded at the low price you can get a cruise for, yet we cant go on the american cruise companys web site and book a cruise for that price. We just have to accept that that's the way it is.

 

My intention is not to upset anybody,but we all have our own opinions and what is right for someone is not right for another. Putting it simply,there is no right and wrong way,just do what your conscience tell you. Happy cruising. :)

 

Well said.

 

It just seems many want everyone to do things their way.

[mildew1951]

Actually it depends on the line.

 

Agree but the statement was a general one. RCI and Celebrity, the main ones are optional.

[mildew1951]

If they would be included in the fare you would be paying them so why would you, or do you, have an issue with paying them separately?:confused:

 

Like I said the cruise line gives you choice so no issue here.