Another new ship for HAL

[cbr663]

I don't understand. I would think that replacing a 1250 passenger ship with a 2650 passenger ship (much less replacing a 740 passenger ship with a 2650 passenger ship) increases passenger capacity of the fleet.

 

When the K was introduced to the fleet, HAL transferred out the Statendam and the Ryndam. Both ships had a combined passenger capacity of about 2600 passengers. The introduction of the K meant no significant increase in passenger capacity.

 

If HAL were to do the same again, this would see 4 HAL smaller ships leave the fleet as the two new Pinnacle ships are introduced. This may very well see the end of Maasdam, Veendam, Rotterdam, and maybe the P'dam or the Volendam.

 

Personally, I think that the Volendam may leave before the P'dam. We experienced leaking on the Volendam when we sailed on her in 2014 and I noticed a recent thread showed an up to date video that the leaks are still occurring. This leaves me wondering whether HAL is trying to do as little repair as necessary to the wonderful ship.

 

Then again, we know that the P'dam and the Veendam have been for sale for some time, so their exit could have absolutely nothing to do with the new ships. :confused:

[Alphen]

My dismay about all this is that we'd like to do it on HAL, not a different line.

 

Linda R.

 

I understand your point, but I was referring to the fact that Cunard uses larger ships for world cruises and grand voyages, so I see no reason why HAL should not do the same!

Edited January 27, 2017 by Alphen

[InTheWASide]

I understand your point, but I was referring to the fact that Cunard uses larger ships for world cruises and grand voyages, so I see no reason why HAL should not do the same!

 

People have brought up the topic of the newer ships have less closet/drawer space... but with the dress codes changing, mostly warm to HOT climates visited, laundry services, packages, bags and/or laundrettes on the older ships... there's not a whole lot to worry about... Pack a little less and if you can do $25000+ per person for a cruise plus all taxes and visas and shots and spending and gratuities and excursions... and and and and.... :eek: then certainly you can handle some $30 stuff the bag laundry specials over that period of time (not to mention clothes for warm and hot climates are typically smaller and thinner so you can fit more and it takes less space overall.)

Edited January 27, 2017 by InTheWASide

[shrimp56]

i wish they would build a third signature class ship

amen!

[kazu]

People have brought up the topic of the newer ships have less closet/drawer space... but with the dress codes changing, mostly warm to HOT climates visited, laundry services, packages, bags and/or laundrettes on the older ships... there's not a whole lot to worry about... Pack a little less and if you can do $25000+ per person for a cruise plus all taxes and visas and shots and spending and gratuities and excursions... and and and and.... :eek: then certainly you can handle some $30 stuff the bag laundry specials over that period of time (not to mention clothes for warm and hot climates are typically smaller and thinner so you can fit more and it takes less space overall.)

 

Believe it or not, not all cruises go to the Caribbean or Hawaii. We'll certainly have to pack layers for our next two cruises and yes, we'd like some space.

 

There's lots of South America cruises, Europe, Northern Europe, United kingdom, etc. that require layering in clothing and/or clothes for warmer and colder weather. So, yes, sufficient room is nice ;)

[TheEmerson]

Well, sooner or later there will be a "Name That Ship" betting pool. I have $5 on Verstappendam

[CaveDiving]

...

 

The disappointment is that with the demise of the smaller ships, the nice long cruises that go to remote places might end. I do hope that they will keep some of the long ones...the Grands...but those are the ones that they really don't make money on. We don't drink much, go to the casino....do our own tours....on those long ones.

 

Linda R.

 

I wonder about this. It would seem that all we'd need is perhaps more efficient tendering operations to get to most locations. As for the long cruises, I have been told that the 2018 World is already almost sold out. So HAL can't be losing money on it.

 

Scott & Karen

[InTheWASide]

Believe it or not, not all cruises go to the Caribbean or Hawaii. We'll certainly have to pack layers for our next two cruises and yes, we'd like some space.

 

There's lots of South America cruises, Europe, Northern Europe, United kingdom, etc. that require layering in clothing and/or clothes for warmer and colder weather. So, yes, sufficient room is nice ;)

 

I was specifically trying to address that a lot of folks say there are no world or grand voyages on the Vista or newer because of those reasons... I personally think there's plenty of space on Vista and newer for cruises in the 1-2 week range without many repeats, or 3 week if laundry is planned in it.

[bUU]

When the K was introduced to the fleet, HAL transferred out the Statendam and the Ryndam. Both ships had a combined passenger capacity of about 2600 passengers. The introduction of the K meant no significant increase in passenger capacity.

If that we to continue that would be very bad news. In business it is grow or die. If they cannot grow by expanding capacity then they will have to find some other way: probably more Revenue enhancement.

[cruisemom42]

If that we to continue that would be very bad news. In business it is grow or die. If they cannot grow by expanding capacity then they will have to find some other way: probably more Revenue enhancement.

 

I think the cruise lines are where the major airlines were a few years ago -- too much capacity.

 

Cruise lines may well consider cutting (or at least not increasing) capacity for a while as it may enable them to begin to raise fares, something that hasn't happened much in the last decade with so many new ships (and cabins) coming out.

[Alphen]

Well, sooner or later there will be a "Name That Ship" betting pool. I have $5 on Verstappendam

 

I second that :D:D:D

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I have to wonder if HAL/Carnival Corp felt the need to replace the Prinsendam in the next two-three years with a newer small vessel if they wouldn't look at transferring the Fathom/P&O Adonia (original R8) to HAL. Built in 2001 it is 13 years younger than Prinsendam and has a similar passenger capacity. It is also newer than Maasdam (1993) or Veendam (1996) by several years which both carry roughly 500+/- passengers more than the Prinsendam or Adonia. Would this make "sense" for HAL?

 

I think Maasdam and Veendam will be replaced one for one vessel wise when Nieuw Statendam and Pinnacle 4 enter the fleet. There will be a trickle down through the Signature, Vista and R-Class vessels most likely and the new vessels will provide moderate growth through an increased number of berths on higher volume routes (Alaska, Caribbean, Europe)

 

There are definitely sailing regions that currently get R-Class vessels where moving to a Vista Class might make sense - South America, Japan/SE Asia, etc as the R-Class are moved to replace Maasdam/Veendam. This already happened in Australia with the Noordam. There may be a destination, like Bermuda for example, that HAL may have to reconsider serving due to the R-Class being longer and wider but I think that's a unique exception.

Edited January 28, 2017 by AtlantaCruiser72

[bUU]

I think the cruise lines are where the major airlines were a few years ago -- too much capacity.

Except one thing: There are new markets opening within which the cruise lines will be welcome, whereas when that happened in the airline industry there was more protectionism employed.

[Cruiser Bruiser]

I think the cruise lines are where the major airlines were a few years ago -- too much capacity.

 

Cruise lines may well consider cutting (or at least not increasing) capacity for a while as it may enable them to begin to raise fares, something that hasn't happened much in the last decade with so many new ships (and cabins) coming out.

 

We will know soon enough if increased capacity will lead to lower fares. My suspicion is that it will not. Fares are much higher already than they were when I started cruising seven years ago, and I only see them going up. Also, as I understand it, the number of cruise passengers is increasing dramatically, especially in North America.

 

We should all be mindful that each ship represents a capital expense of approximately $1 billion, so I think the folks in Miami who make these purchasing decisions are quite aware of market trends.

[Cruiser Bruiser]

I have to wonder if HAL/Carnival Corp felt the need to replace the Prinsendam in the next two-three years with a newer small vessel if they wouldn't look at transferring the Fathom/P&O Adonia (original R8) to HAL. Built in 2001 it is 13 years younger than Prinsendam and has a similar passenger capacity. It is also newer than Maasdam (1993) or Veendam (1996) by several years which both carry roughly 500+/- passengers more than the Prinsendam or Adonia. Would this make "sense" for HAL?

 

P&O pax wouldn't be very happy about that. The buzz over on the P&O board [as much as there is ever "buzz" over there] is that folks are very happy to have their Adonia back. ;)

[kazu]

I have to wonder if HAL/Carnival Corp felt the need to replace the Prinsendam in the next two-three years with a newer small vessel if they wouldn't look at transferring the Fathom/P&O Adonia (original R8) to HAL. Built in 2001 it is 13 years younger than Prinsendam and has a similar passenger capacity. It is also newer than Maasdam (1993) or Veendam (1996) by several years which both carry roughly 500+/- passengers more than the Prinsendam or Adonia. Would this make "sense" for HAL?

 

I think Maasdam and Veendam will be replaced one for one vessel wise when Nieuw Statendam and Pinnacle 4 enter the fleet. There will be a trickle down through the Signature, Vista and R-Class vessels most likely and the new vessels will provide moderate growth through an increased number of berths on higher volume routes (Alaska, Caribbean, Europe)

 

There are definitely sailing regions that currently get R-Class vessels where moving to a Vista Class might make sense - South America, Japan/SE Asia, etc as the R-Class are moved to replace Maasdam/Veendam. This already happened in Australia with the Noordam. There may be a destination, like Bermuda for example, that HAL may have to reconsider serving due to the R-Class being longer and wider but I think that's a unique exception.

 

Interesting thoughts. Hopefully HAL will replace the P'dam but their direction doesn't seem to be in that way. Oceania added a ship (Sirena) from Princess which was much loved by their board and spent millions of dollars on her. She was not a young ship. If HAL did the same it would be nice.

 

I wonder what they will do with the Amsterdam and the Rotterdam when their time comes? They are the flagships of the fleet. To see them go and not be replaced would be a sad day and hail a different HAL IMO.

 

But for now, I'm happy to sail on the Rotterdam soon and the P'dam next year ;)

[Copper10-8]

I have to wonder if HAL/Carnival Corp felt the need to replace the Prinsendam in the next two-three years with a newer small vessel if they wouldn't look at transferring the Fathom/P&O Adonia (original R8) to HAL. Built in 2001 it is 13 years younger than Prinsendam and has a similar passenger capacity. It is also newer than Maasdam (1993) or Veendam (1996) by several years which both carry roughly 500+/- passengers more than the Prinsendam or Adonia. Would this make "sense" for HAL?

 

I think Maasdam and Veendam will be replaced one for one vessel wise when Nieuw Statendam and Pinnacle 4 enter the fleet. There will be a trickle down through the Signature, Vista and R-Class vessels most likely and the new vessels will provide moderate growth through an increased number of berths on higher volume routes (Alaska, Caribbean, Europe)

 

There are definitely sailing regions that currently get R-Class vessels where moving to a Vista Class might make sense - South America, Japan/SE Asia, etc as the R-Class are moved to replace Maasdam/Veendam. This already happened in Australia with the Noordam. There may be a destination, like Bermuda for example, that HAL may have to reconsider serving due to the R-Class being longer and wider but I think that's a unique exception.

 

 

Good points! Don't forget HAL runs Seabourn.........

[sammiedawg]

Oceania spent fifty million plus to bring the Ocean Princess up to their standards. It is the fourth R ship in the fleet and commanded high per diems the first year. No way is holland America going to spend that.

Carnival corporation offers Seabourn for those in love with the Carnival family. I have never met a soul who sailed Seabourn, it is kind of a mystery line to me.

The corporate execs can and will work out some joint loyalty program.

Edited January 28, 2017 by sammiedawg

[kazu]

Oceania spent fifty million plus to bring the Ocean Princess up to their standards. It is the fourth R ship in the fleet and commanded high per diems the first year. No way is holland America going to spend that.

Carnival corporation offers Seabourn for those in love with the Carnival family. I have never met a soul who sailed Seabourn, it is kind of a mystery line to me.

The corporate execs can and will work out some joint loyalty program.t

 

The Ocean Princess (now Sirena) is not a young ship. I was actually surprised that O bought it but I do love that ship, but I love old ships ;)

 

If you check history, you will find that HAL has sunk more than that amount into the Prinsendam, not to mention replacements are costly. When the Crow's Nest window got broken, it had to specially ordered. Maintenance costs don't show in dry dock costs ;)

 

Personally, I am not in love with the CCL Family nor am I in love with Oceania. I do like Prinsendam and the smaller HAL ships so I guess I am in love selectively, but I would be certainly willing to try Seabourn or Silversea (they don't need to be part of CCL) but sadly, they don't offer the itineraries that the ships like the Rotterdam and the Prinsendam do.

 

That is part of the attraction (for us) of these ships - the itineraries offered.

 

I still get O brochures despite my pleas and there is not one unusual or interesting itinerary in them. So, I will sail the great itineraries of HAL as long as I can and as long as they are offered. :) Long may they be offered!

[freestyling]

I agree that the itineraries of O are not that unique. We have yet to sail on the P'dam or Rotterdam but planning on it late 2018 / early 2019. We don't mind the S or even Pinnacle ship but so far the Maasdam is our favorite.