Domestic air upgrades to first class?

[Dolebludger]

To my recent experience Regent does not offer a way to upgrade their domestic flights to first class or business class. And neither do the airlines when Regent books the flight. Because some domestic flights are rather long (depending on where you live and the port location) the ability to upgrade these flights would be greatly appreciated by many.

 

I am far from alone in my dislike of the ever-shrinking accommodations in economy/coach class, even if the flight is only two to four hours flying time. In fact, the FAA recently began an investigation of the crowding in economy/coach class on the grounds that it was unsafe. Somehow, the investigation was quashed.

 

Now, this is not Regent's fault. It is the fault of the airlines. I only suggest that Regent recognize the problem with it's "included" air, and book domestic flights that can be upgraded to first/business, like it does on its international flights.

[mrlevin]

Richard, I just wish Regent would allow additional originating cities; only 24 and it seems half of those are in Florida or New York.

 

BTW, Regent no longer offers international coach; just business or no air.

[gofish]

Leaving today on Regent flights. Paid $250 because we are in HNL and got business class to Rio. Coming back paid Regent $1200 to upgrade to first class MIA-LAX-HNL.

maybe it isn't offered on all itineraries but it was for this one.

[Travelcat2]

Leaving today on Regent flights. Paid $250 because we are in HNL and got business class to Rio. Coming back paid Regent $1200 to upgrade to first class MIA-LAX-HNL.

maybe it isn't offered on all itineraries but it was for this one.

 

It could be different when traveling in the domestic U.S. and Canada since Honolulu requires flying over the ocean. A week ago we upgraded to Business/First Class on round-trip Miami flights (from YVR). The cost was $3,200 (booked through Regent). Since we can get First Class roundtrip from Vancouver round-trip for $2,200, we may cancel the Regent flights in a couple of months.

 

In terms of Regent including domestic First Class air, I strongly feel that if the airlines will not give Regent discounts, they sure as heck aren't going to give their customers a discount. Can you blame them?

[Dolebludger]

Yes, I do blame the airlines for a lot of things, including this one. The scenario I would suggest would be if domestic flights booked by Regent under the "free air" could be upgraded upon my payment of an additional fee to Regent or the airline. I can't do that now. So I'm not suggesting I get anything for free here. Just the opportunity to be able to pay extra and get extra, which I don't have now.

 

And it is good that Regent abandoned international coach -- especially on US airlines where it is particularly pitiful. I don't know about Regent adding additional departure airports in their free air program. It looks to me that they have selected all the "hubs" we have in the US, so it was clearly their intent to offer free air only from a hub. It would be nice, though, if the air were from any city with an airport to the port.

[Dolebludger]

gofish,

 

All I know is that two years ago we had Tahiti as the embarkation port. This meant Denver to LAX and LAX to Tahiti. Our Denver to LAX flight was coach and could not be upgraded "no way no how". It was better on the way back from the final port of Lima, Peru. We were on a non-stop from Lima to Denver which was all first/business class.

 

This year, we booked a Miami to Miami cruise, and there is no way to upgrade tickets through Regent to something better than coach. So we took a credit (a skimpy one) from Regent and booked our own business/first. That shouldn't have to be the case. Regent needs to realize that its guests who pay Regent fares (and won't go on something like NCL or Carnival) won't like flying coach from Denver or Dallas to Miami.

[Travelcat2]

gofish,

 

All I know is that two years ago we had Tahiti as the embarkation port. This meant Denver to LAX and LAX to Tahiti. Our Denver to LAX flight was coach and could not be upgraded "no way no how". It was better on the way back from the final port of Lima, Peru. We were on a non-stop from Lima to Denver which was all first/business class.

 

This year, we booked a Miami to Miami cruise, and there is no way to upgrade tickets through Regent to something better than coach. So we took a credit (a skimpy one) from Regent and booked our own business/first. That shouldn't have to be the case. Regent needs to realize that its guests who pay Regent fares (and won't go on something like NCL or Carnival) won't like flying coach from Denver or Dallas to Miami.

 

 

As mentioned in my last post, we just (within last two weeks) upgraded flights to and from Miami (for a Miami to Miami cruise) and Regent booked them. We have done this in the past so whoever told you that you can't upgrade through Regent is misinformed. However, having Regent upgrade your flights will cost you more than booking it yourself!

[Dolebludger]

Oh, I did not know that. I wonder why it costs more for first/business through Regent than booking your own. Especially when regent is already paying the coach fare.

[Travelcat2]

Oh, I did not know that. I wonder why it costs more for first/business through Regent than booking your own. Especially when regent is already paying the coach fare.

 

 

Good question! We do lose transportation when we book our own flights and Regent agents do have to spend some time booking the flights but I wouldn't think that it would cost $500/person to do that. This is obviously something that Regent prefers not doing and perhaps hopes that if they price themselves high enough, no one will ask them to book it. On the other hand, maybe Regent has to pay cancellation fees on domestic flights while they likely do not to on their international contracted flights. Still, the cost is quite high!

[Dolebludger]

To all,

 

I am sorry for having posted this based on non-current information. Our last Regent cruise two years ago did involve overseas air, and at that time we had to pay Regent extra for business/first class air for the overseas segments. It wasn't as much as booking these segments ourselves, and we were unpleasantly surprised to find that our up-charge did not include the flight segment from Denver to LAX. On our cruise Miami to Miami for late this month, our TA was told by Regent that domestic flight upgrades were not available through them. This is a part of our Regent experience that once you get onboard, all is wonderful. But dealing with the "home office" is not so much. But in any event, I strongly feel that upgrading domestic flights to a cruise (in light of Regent's "free air" claim) should be at the airline's upgraded fare, minus what Regent would pay for coach/economy, even if all is domestic. This should result in an extra fare for the upgrade that is LESS than if we booked our own air -- not more. And in this case, Regent's credit for our booking our own air was very skimpy. My point is that anybody who is willing and able to pay Regent's cruise fare will not stand for the "sardine can" coach/economy accomodations of US airlines for flights over about one hour. So, for us, Regent's advertised "free air" is meaningless and misleading for cruises involving a longer domestic segment. I do feel that a cruise line as large as what is now the NCL/Oceana/Regent corporation should have the negotiation power to do better for its Regent guests whose cruise involves some or only domestic air. But perhaps not. One good thing about the way our US airlines operate is now us lawyers and car salesmen are not the most hated business --the airlines are!

[flossie009]

:confused: If Airlines Sold Paint........... :D

 

The following is very old, but the sentiments are still valid:

https://people.freebsd.org/~peter/airlines.txt

[Dolebludger]

Flossie,

 

Any comment I would make would be considered too political for this forum and would be deleted. But I hope I can just say that the airlines and their practices are just killing the long distance travel industry. Here in Durango, Colorado we are seeing a huge increase in tourism. It is my theory that part of the reason for this is many people can get here via driving or only a short flight. My original post was about Regent advertising "free air" when somebody in New York who had to fly to LA to board a ship or catch an international flight would be packed in like a sardine in coach for five hours or more just to get to LA, with no feasible alternative offered by Regent. And your average Regent guest is not going to like that! And some of us with physical problems just can't do it. (Did airlines ever hear about the ADA?)

 

Back to the topic of my thread, I think Regent should offer its guests a financially feasible way to upgrade any domestic air legs to reach a cruise to business or first, or stop advertising that they offer "free air" -- because their "free air isn't usable by many of their guests.

[fizzy]

We SO agree with you Mr. Dolebludger. We had forgotten about this absurd irritation when reserving our upcoming cruise. It's rather insulting to the very customers that Regent is trying to attract and keep. If we had chosen to go with the "free air" , in coach, round trip NY. to Miami, they would have had us arriving fairly early in the morning.....and then what? Sit around for a few hours until boarding?.....or pay a deviation fee for a different more reasonable time.....but still in coach with attending extra baggage fees. We considered the option of fiddling around with points and miles and it became a bigger annoyance for all involved. I would much prefer that their "free air" banner was clearly printed in same size type to say...."free economy air within the United States" or something to that effect. It would actually be so much better to have the entire travel experience be top notch from start to finish.

[Dolebludger]

fizzy,

 

Thank you for your response. Regent is great -- once you get on the ship. I just think that the folks at Regent's head office don't fully realize the problem many of us have in getting to the ship! Maybe they haven't tried to fly coach/economy lately. Maybe they haven't had to sit around in an uncomfortable chair at an airport (if they can even find one) waiting on a connecting flight (if it is even close to on time). And maybe the folks at NCL/Oceania/Regent don't comprehend the bargaining power they could use with the airlines.

 

Now here is my situation. A year ago we booked a nice, laid back Regent cruise on the Mariner in the Caribbean embarking March 29. We got travel insurance. In the intermediate time, my wife's back began to hurt her badly, which resulted in her having some major back surgery this Feb. 8th. Two days ago, her doctor said she would be fine for the cruise, but the flight from Durango CO to Miami might be of concern. Thankfully, we had booked our own first class air, with Regent giving us only about a $300 pp discount. That's just wrong! And the only flights we could book involved a rather long lay over in Dallas (DFW). That is an obsolete airport with no "people movers" and inadequate seating for those waiting for a flight. And even though we are booked first class air, we are not eligible to go to American Airlines "Admiral's Club" for comfortable seating as we are not on an international flight. Fortunately, we have two adult daughters in the Dallas area who can pick us up and take us somewhere that will be more comfortable for my wife. But I still don't know if she (and we) are medically able to go until she has some X-rays done on March 21. Perhaps we will have to cancel and use the travel insurance. All because airlines have yet to understand the ADA (Americans with disabilities act). Although I am a lawyer, I am too old to "teach them the lesson".

 

Crystal cruise lines has recently introduced its own airline. It uses a Boing 757 that formerly held 250 passengers, but has been reconfigured to hold only 75. Of course, it is very expensive and flies routes independent of the ships. But perhaps I see the future here. If we can't get to the ship unless we are in the condition of an olympic athlete, what does it matter how good the onboard experience is? Most of us aren't in shape to take long flights in coach and have long lay overs in crappy airport chairs (if one can be found). An international organization has rated airports world wide and rated all of those in the US no higher than a "D" on an "A to F" scale.

 

I will not express my ideas about what should be done about the airlines and airports because it would be deemed political and not permitted on this board. But you can guess what they would be. For now, I will only say that the best cruise line in the world (and Regent is close) cannot survive forever if it can't get its guests to the ship in a reasonable manner.

[rallydave]

A couple of thoughts Dolebludger. In tc’s case the issue might be that she is flying from Vancouver to Miami which is an International flight and Business, not First Class which might make the difference between her being able to upgrade while you are not able since your flight is truly domestic.

 

Also domestic airlines seem to be decreasing the size of the first class cabin in order to squeeze more paying people into coach. For example we are flying first class on our own nickel to Miami this fall on a UAL 737-900 and these places used to have 5 or 6 rows of first class seats so 20-24, ours now has only 2 rows or 8 seats.

 

Used to fly extensively for business and got upgraded regularly and most of those flying first class were upgraded for free so decreasing the number of first class seats does increase revenue which the airlines need to do to continue to stay in business. After all, prices today compared to years ago are much less expensive sometimes in actual dollars but, almost always in real dollars. I can go back and remember 40 years ago buying a car for $2400 that today would cost about $24000 so 10 times the cost yet airline fares have not gone up anywhere near 10 times.

 

Also blaming the airlines makes no sense when the Regent price for Business from Vancouver to Miami is about $500 pp higher than buying on your own. Might be refundable vs. non-refundable and then it is up to the buyer to determine their risk level in buying the non-refundable ticket to save the money. IMHO can’t blame the airline as that is normal and has to cover costs based on the conditions of the flights.

 

While agree that dealing with the home office is not the same as being on board, they simply cannot purchase non-refundable tickets while allowing people to cancel and thus own tickets that cannot be used by them since can’t change names on tickets.

 

Really not a simple as what we all would like things to be and yes the money for not using Regent air is usually not enough to buy your own tickets, have to remember, the cruise fare being the same no matter where one lives means it is based on an average price for the US and Canada thus those on the east coast for Europe and those on the west cost for Asia stand a better chance of using the air credit than the opposite as flight costs are based on distance while cruise fares are not as far as the included air.

[UUNetBill]

Some valid points there. Having lived in Colorado for 20 years, I've done my share of travel from more in the middle of the country and I'd forgotten how long some of those flights are.

 

Of course, you can't blame Regent for the state of American air travel and airports, but you most definitely CAN blame them for not offering a reasonable opportunity to upgrade the domestic air leg. I'm kind of spoiled now, living closer to the east coast - but we've been looking at more Asia and Oceania itineraries, and the thought of being crammed into coach from CLT or ATL to the west coast is not a pleasant thought at all.

 

There are those who will say "just take the air credit and book your own air" which is an option for those with miles, but for the rest of us it certainly takes away from the luxury, all-inclusive aspect of Regent. Really, how much more difficult would it be to contract a few first-class seats on longer domestic flights? I can't see it being that much of a problem...

[Dolebludger]

rally,

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. The real problem is that airlines have shrunk the space in the coach/economy section to the point that it is painful and unsafe. I used to fly coach all the time for business in the 70s, and there was sufficient room. Also, there were more flights back then so not every seat was filled. Further, the number of restrooms available to coach has decreased. There are ADA violations all over the place.

 

I shall not debate price on this issue. There are a number of factors involved in price. One factor is that airlines are still using some of the planes they used back in the 70s, and I'm not smart enough to do the math on that.

 

But the issue here is whether Regent is getting its guests to the ship in an appropriate manner, and not an issue of price. I say it is not, and its representation of "free air" is a bit over the top. If you disagree, that is your right. And I still contend that their "credits" for those booking their own air is really skimpy. You don't have to agree.

[UUNetBill]

But the issue here is whether Regent is getting its guests to the ship in an appropriate manner, and not an issue of price. I say it is not, and its representation of "free air" is a bit over the top. If you disagree, that is your right. And I still contend that their "credits" for those booking their own air is really skimpy. You don't have to agree.

 

 

Well, although I agree with you that flying economy is far from luxurious, I don't see where Regent's representation of 'free air' is over the top. The website clearly states:

FREE

ROUNDTRIP BUSINESS CLASS AIR*

ON INTERCONTINENTAL FLIGHTS

FREE

ROUNDTRIP AIR*

ON DOMESTIC FLIGHTS

From the T&C Page:

FREE Roundtrip Air includes ground transfers between airport and ship and applies to coach, roundtrip flights only from the following airports: ATL, BOS, CLT, DEN, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, IAD, IAH, JFK, LAX, LGA, MCO, MDW, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PHX, SAN, SEA, SFO, TPA, YUL, YVR, YYZ. Airfare is available from all other U.S. and Canadian gateways for an additional charge.

Business Class Air applies to Intercontinental flights only and any pricing listed is per person, each way. 2016 European voyages offer FREE Roundtrip Business Class Air in Penthouse Suites and higher. FREE Roundtrip Business Class Air in all suite categories will be offered on all Intercontinental flights, beginning with Seven Seas Explorer® 3/26/17, Seven Seas Voyager® 3/23/17, Seven Seas Navigator® 8/18/17 and Seven Seas Mariner® 1/17/17.

Frankly, I think they're more 'over-the-top' on their claims of 'free wi-fi', which in most cases is barely usable.

[rallydave]

Dole, Completely agree about the space in coach becoming ridiculous. Also completely agree with your last paragraph. Only thing in your last post I will disagree with is that Domestic airlines are flying planes from the 70's. Sure there are airlines outside the US still flying some of those planes and I too would not fly on those airlines but, almost positive you would not be able to find an airline in the US flying 40+ years old.

 

Just found the following dated 2014 where Delta was retiring the oldest plane in the US fleet built in 1978: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0107/Last-DC-9-retired-by-Delta-oldest-plane-in-US-fleet-video

 

With that article being 3 years old, doubt any more pre 1980 are still flying and if any, extremely few and far between. Really believe we are mostly in agreement on the state of Regent included air.

[Dolebludger]

UUNetBill,

 

I certainly am not blaming Regent for the problems we have in getting to their ships. But perhaps I am blaming them for not recognizing these problems and not helping us Regent guests deal with these problems. Let's face it. Few Regent cruisers want to fly coach/economy (the way it is today) for more than an hour or so on the way to a Regent cruise. As I was informed above, all Regent "free air" is now business class overseas. This was not the case two years ago, and this was a good move by Regent. But there is an issue as to the suitability of their "free air" on domestic flights in the US. This is in light of the ever-shrinking space in coach on US airlines, in light of the fact than most of Regent's guests tend to be older and therefore have some physical difficulties. Regent doesn't have to make domestic "free air" first/business class, in my opinion. They just need to be honest about the credits they give those of us who want to book first/business class air for domestic legs of our flights to get to the ship. The $300 pp rt credit they gave us for not using their "free air" (coach) from Denver or Dallas to Miami and back was far less than the cost of those tickets per the airlines web site. So we were not given adequate credit for not using their "free air" and booking upgrade air on our own. I think the credit they gave us was more than a bit too low.

[travelingduo]

We were able to upgrade the domestic portion of our flights using miles on AA (LAX/MIA). We made our final payment early so that Regent would book the air earlier. Of course there has to be availability and I think it also depends upon what class of service Regent books the economy fare. I know that the airlines will not allow you to 'upgrade' to economy plus or more room seats. Bottom line is it doesn't seem right that the domestic portion is coach when you are transferring to a business class flight.

 

 

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[Dolebludger]

Now this is ironic,

 

On a Regent cruise two years ago, we were concerned about the leg from Denver to LA on United being coach. United would not let us upgrade to business/first for miles or money, but would let us upgrade to "economy plus". This whole domestic airline thing is a real mess!

[Portolan]

All of the discussion above is why we never have, nor likely ever will, take the included air. We can arrange our own air and usually come out ahead by taking the air credit. Using frequent flyer miles, we can always beat their international business air credit. And, no, it isn't because I treat FF miles as free. Their "cost" to me is $0.02/mile or less (since that's the straight out purchase cost offered at times). Any arrangement we make is domestic first/international business all the way. Yes, no transfers included this way, but our TA often throws them in, and no transfer comes anywhere near to offsetting the savings.

 

As an example, we plan to be on the Explorer February 2019 Buenos Aires to Valparaiso cruise. It has a $3000/pp air credit and the FF cost will be 70k miles RT/pp or ~$1400 "cost" for business class all the way. Of course, this takes effort on my part, but I consider it a game where, played well, one can come out ahead.

[rallydave]

Scott, So agree with you. Just a word to the wise, not a lot of availability on those South America flights. In January the moment flights opened started checking and after a few days finally got my flights although a bit higher than the 70K each way. Had to spend an extra nite in Santiago but, the savings were well worth it. Have found UAL if that is your choice does open up bookings a few days before the 330 day mark so make sure you book early and keep trying. Good luck,

[Travelcat2]

Bottom line is it doesn't seem right that the domestic portion is coach when you are transferring to a business class flight.

 

 

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The rules are different if you are flying on the same airline domestically and then transferring to an international flight. In this case, you would have Business or Domestic First Class on the domestic leg and Business Class on the International leg. This discussion has been mainly about domestic only flights.