Who is HAL's new breed of customers?

[navybankerteacher]

McDonald's used to fry their fries in beef tallow. They switched to something healthier (vegetable oil?) years ago.

 

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That explains it -- I'm sure it's healthier --- but as the saying goes: even if eating only healthy food does not make you live longer, it will certainly seem longer.

[Cruise Junky]

The issue is comparing cruise ship travel to cruise ship travel; not to land travel. Of course there are different options and outcomes when choosing land travel. Nature of the beast.

 

Why only compare cruise ship travel? Cruisers are a small percentage of the vacationing public. All cruise lines need to tap into that land trip population.

[iancal]

That is exactly my point. I have to wonder if the new breed of cruisers are those who include other competing travel options in their vacation plans. We find ourselves doing more land travel and less cruising as cruise lines change their product and their pricing model.

 

When we look at a cruise we are not simply comparing cruise lines, ships, whatever. We are comparing it against independent land travel, organized tours, and AI's.

[cruisemom42]

As a solo cruiser, I now find land travel, such as your trip to Crete, better value, with much better food and better interaction with locals than a cruise, with single supplement.

 

However, Cruise ships have the advantage when it comes to cruising islands and difficult to reach locations. Which is why I am attracted to the itineraries of some HAL cruises. However, HAL middle size ships seem to share a common lack of maintenance problem. I have no desire to pay good money to cruise on a ship with leaks, plumbing problems, and on going noisy repairs, paint fumes, etc.

 

 

Excellent points regarding solo travel. Because of the 'business model' used by most cruiselines, it IS generally cheaper for solos to do land vacations, while for couples it may or may not be the case depending on how and where you travel.

 

I also agree that cruising is a great way to see several difficult to reach locations in one trip -- as long as they are the kind of location where one can get somewhat of a sense of the place in a one-day visit. For me: Greek islands would be a 'Yes', but visiting Rome and Florence would be a 'No' (both have so much to offer that you need more than one day PLUS they are a good distance from the port).

 

I do enjoy being on the ocean, it's one of the reasons why I continue to cruise. But that's IN ADDITION to having a good itinerary. I'd never take a 'cruise to nowhere'.

 

On the other hand, if I cruise too often, I start to get fed up with the restrictions of cruise travel -- e.g., always having to watch my time ashore, generally departing too early to eat dinner in port, etc.

[Tampa Girl]

It strikes me that all of the posts concerning land vs. sea travel are really not responsive to the initial issue, i.e. new breed of travelers. I think the question of land vs. sea vacations has always been an issue and always will be. Nothing new about it, and it will probably always change for some people as the economies of the various countries change. Also age and the ability or desire for either form of travel will influence one's preference.

[OlsSalt]

..... However, HAL middle size ships seem to share a common lack of maintenance problem. I have no desire to pay good money to cruise on a ship with leaks, plumbing problems, and on going noisy repairs, paint fumes, etc.

 

T......

 

What facts support your statement about HAL's "lack of maintenance. Then you condemn the on-going maintenance that is routine on any ship: painting and some limited noise and even "water leaks" during ships operation.

 

You present yourself as an expect in this field so please tell us more.

[iancal]

I think the new breed of cruise customers will be people who are more adventurous and who do see cruises and other options in an equal light. The world continues to become a smaller place. Internet makes independent travel much easier. And 60 is the new 80.

 

I think this is why there is such a push to get younger families on family style vacation cruises.

 

The market is changing. We have older friends who get concerned when they hear of us venturing of to Thailand/ Vietnam/Malaysia for the winter or Turkey in the fall with just a general idea of an itinerary. Our younger friends and associates think nothing of it. Nor is it simply price issue. I think that it has become more of an experience issue. Which option will give us the best experience based on our personal preferences.

 

The older ones wear watches. The younger ones don't. Their smart phones are attached in the same manner as an umbilical chord. Change is constant. Well, perhaps not so much at HAL.

[OlsSalt]

Because I don't feel confident about what our experience will be, I'm not prepared to pay top dollar for the uncertainty and risk of having a toilet that doesn't work, a/c that doesn't cool, food that is mediocre or cancelled ports that I had been counting on going to (I realize the latter is not controllable) but I would be able to go on a land tour. I look for a 'good deal'/last minute type of situation.

 

No sense making yourself miserable since that is your upfront scenario. But if the price is right, you are willing to do exactly that?

[OlsSalt]

I think the new breed of cruise customers will be people who are more adventurous and who do see cruises and other options in an equal light. The world continues to become a smaller place. Internet makes independent travel much easier. And 60 is the new 80.

 

I think this is why there is such a push to get younger families on family style vacation cruises.

 

The market is changing. We have older friends who get concerned when they hear of us venturing of to Thailand/ Vietnam/Malaysia for the winter or Turkey in the fall with just a general idea of an itinerary. Our younger friends and associates think nothing of it.

 

The older ones wear watches. The younger ones don't. Their smart phones are attached in the same manner as an umbilical chord. Change is constant. Well, perhaps not so much at HAL.

 

70 is the new 30.

[bennybear]

For me, I enjoy cruising watching the water and visiting new places and getting a taste of a new place without the hassle of trains, planes and automobiles.

But some places are best experienced on land. We have now visited Crete three times for a total of 6 weeks. We have spent several weeks on other Greek islands as well. We enjoy small places off the beaten path as much or more than the main cities and sights.

We also love to visit Hawaii most winters and would never cruise there as just gives a rushed glimpse. But each to his own.

I just wish the cruise companies would consider the land portion. We would love to visit Japan in cherry blossom season, but it is difficult to find an add on cruise that works with that timing.

I also wish they would vary the ports a bit more. This year if you wish to do a longer cruise some even visit the same port three times in 21 days! I know people want to visit the main sights, but some of the more obscure could be a draw.

[cruisemom42]

It strikes me that all of the posts concerning land vs. sea travel are really not responsive to the initial issue, i.e. new breed of travelers. I think the question of land vs. sea vacations has always been an issue and always will be. Nothing new about it, and it will probably always change for some people as the economies of the various countries change. Also age and the ability or desire for either form of travel will influence one's preference.

 

I'm not sure I fully agree. I think cruise lines are going to have to do a better job of attracting the 'new breed of travelers' who often have a pre-existing viewpoint on cruising as something their grandparents did, particularly if they have never cruised themselves. I get this reaction over and over again at my workplace when I say I've just returned from a cruise vacation. The most common responses are 1) Isn't cruising geared toward retirees? 2) Oh, I bet you got plenty of food to eat -- isn't it nonstop eating on cruises? and 3) I wouldn't have pictured you as the 'cruising' type.

 

My son (who at 24 enjoys cruises because he's done them since age 7), gets a similar if not even more negative response.

 

Especially if cruise lines keep adding berths, they need to do a good job of reaching a wider market of potential cruisers. As to who, exactly, HAL is targeting as their passengers in the next 10 to 20 years, my suspicion is that a number of them will be early (or later) retirees -- but they will already be more well traveled than the previous generation (based on general demographic information). And I believe they will look for more -- or different -- options than they can get from land travel.

[OlsSalt]

...... I know people want to visit the main sights, but some of the more obscure could be a draw.

 

Wonder what it takes for "obscure" coastal towns to become cruise ports, either direct docking or tender facilities when all the sudden they need to absorb thousands of people, maybe a few times a year.

[bennybear]

Wonder what it takes for "obscure" coastal towns to become cruise ports, either direct docking or tender facilities when all the sudden they need to absorb thousands of people, maybe a few times a year.

True, I guess I need to be careful what I wish for!

Sadly, even on land places change and not always for the better. Aix en Provence used to be magical, whereas last time it had become a big bar scene.

And I think all the media coverage has caused some places to become overrun. I still enjoy the joy of discovering what is still less visited.

[cruisemom42]

Wonder what it takes for "obscure" coastal towns to become cruise ports, either direct docking or tender facilities when all the sudden they need to absorb thousands of people, maybe a few times a year.

 

It's already happened -- or happening -- in many places in the Med. There are so many ships now that cruise lines are looking for 'new' ports either to alleviate crowding or to provide new experiences. Or to provide an "extra-EU" port on a cruise to avoid the blanket VAT being added to all charges aboard ship.

 

This last became relevant earlier this year when Turkey (which provided excellent sightseeing opportunities in addition to that valuable extra-EU port stop) was removed from most Med itineraries. There followed a scramble to identify new ports to take the place of the cancelled Turkish ports. Sarande, Albania was a major beneficiary. When I went there a few years ago the facilities were not great. I believe it is a tender port still. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't look to capitalize on this situation and create greater infrastructure to continue to entice cruise ships to call.

 

We've probably all heard about cruise lines investing in infrastructure in Cuban ports as well.

 

As someone noted in a post on a different current thread, very few cruise ships used to call on the Italian port of La Spezia until the Cinque Terre villages became suddenly popular. Now suddenly it is a mainstream destination.

 

One positive about cruising on "very small ships" (my newly minted category for ships under 500 passengers), is that they can stop at more tender ports, opening a much wider potential range of ports for consideration. It doesn't take long to tender 300 passengers ashore. With 6,000 or even 3,000 passengers? Not so much.

[OlsSalt]

What attracted any of us to cruising. That is a good place to start. Yes, it was something my parents and grandparents did after they retired (aka older). My early impressions were that it was a very expensive vacation option and never really thought about doing in when we were in our 60's - we were still the land-based independent travelers then.

 

I have to laugh now because what got us started was a "50% off - two for one" Crystal marketing ad in the WSJ - none of the itineraries had any interest since I had already been to most of their offerings. But then there was the one that went from Singapore to Dubai that intrigued me most.

 

Next hurdle was learning what it would cost to fly to the ports assuming again it would be prohibitively expensive to even get to those far away locations from the US. Turned out it was not as bad as I thought, in the hundreds of dollars not the thousands of dollars. So off we went and that started the cruise option for us.

 

Out of sheer curiosity I went looking for other cruise lines who also offered a similar exotic itinerary in the Indian Ocean (my favorite destination) on one of the online comparative cruise search websites. Lo and behold, that is when I saw HAL had an even more extensive Indian Ocean itinerary at easily half the price.

 

I had to laugh how stupid and naive we were in the beginning starting with the premise that "cruising is too expensive" , jumping at the 2 for 1 marketing Crystal always hypes, and then discovering the real value cruising HAL offers to get us into those far flung unexplored parts of the planet. We have never looked back. Now we do see cruising as our "aging in place" travel option.

 

We are no longer the same independent full adventure travelers we once were. So we grew into HAL as we got older. And that I suspect is not an untypical scenario for HAL's base of "new customer". HAL's "new customers" will be people getting older looking, for more convenience while still looking for new horizons.

[Tampa Girl]

I'm not sure I fully agree. I think cruise lines are going to have to do a better job of attracting the 'new breed of travelers' who often have a pre-existing viewpoint on cruising as something their grandparents did, particularly if they have never cruised themselves. I get this reaction over and over again at my workplace when I say I've just returned from a cruise vacation. The most common responses are 1) Isn't cruising geared toward retirees? 2) Oh, I bet you got plenty of food to eat -- isn't it nonstop eating on cruises? and 3) I wouldn't have pictured you as the 'cruising' type.

 

My son (who at 24 enjoys cruises because he's done them since age 7), gets a similar if not even more negative response.

 

Especially if cruise lines keep adding berths, they need to do a good job of reaching a wider market of potential cruisers. As to who, exactly, HAL is targeting as their passengers in the next 10 to 20 years, my suspicion is that a number of them will be early (or later) retirees -- but they will already be more well traveled than the previous generation (based on general demographic information). And I believe they will look for more -- or different -- options than they can get from land travel.

 

But how is that a change from 20 - 30 years ago?

[bennybear]

Cruise mom, well said, the loss of Turkey had a huge impact. I am glad we were able to visit both Istanbul and Ephesus.

I call it the Rick Steves effect, the Cinque Terre is beautiful but has become a victim of this popularity. We also had the peace and joy of lake Como disrupted by tourists. In the rush to visit the must sees people often miss the hidden gems.

 

But there are some places that do make great ports. We enjoyed Genoa a lot last year and it has both the sights and the infrastructure. Trieste is another interesting city, with lots of sights and an extremely beautiful coastline.

 

OlsSalt, you make some great points. We still do mostly independent travel but will be looking for more ease of travel with interesting itineraries.

[iancal]

Ease of access, ease of arranging land travel and obtaining information about interesting destinations. Inexpensive budget airlines. In the recent past we have flown from Portugal to Rome and from Crete to Paris for under $100. Palermo-Rome for $40.

 

Same reasons for the demise of many travel agencies and travel agents. Access to information and a lower economic barrier.

[cruisemom42]

But how is that a change from 20 - 30 years ago?

 

Good question, and I'm not sure I can answer it empirically. But it seems to me that every generation or so there's a shift in how people want to spend their vacation time. Or at least in how they aspire to vacation.

 

I'm not sure anyone views cruising as a vacation for the rich anymore. The mass market lines have bombarded us with enough 'low price offers' that cruising seems reasonable. College students take spring break cruises and secretaries take Med cruises. (Not that I don't think the affordability is a good thing, just to point out that the perception is no longer one of affluence and entitlement...)

 

Cruise lines need to ensure that cruising remains relevant. There's a danger that cruising (especially the shorter cruises on large ships) will come to be looked at the same way that I'd think of vacations in the Catskills in the 1950s and 1960s, for example -- quaint, but terribly old-fashioned. I don't think any amount of aging would change my perspective on that.

 

Some cruise lines seem to have tapped into a greater wish among vacationing Gen Xers and even some of the younger Baby Boomers to have a more 'deluxe' experience in the midst of a large mass-market ship. Hence the popularity of suite perks and special enclaves onboard some ships. I can't get onboard with the idea myself (pun intended), but apparently the thought among these consumers is to be able to partake of the benefits of being on a larger ship but at the same time also have an exclusive area where they can avoid the mass-market crowds. To me, this is one thing that represents a shift in attitude, at least among cruisers, in the last 20-30 years.

[OlsSalt]

...

 

Cruise lines need to ensure that cruising remains relevant. There's a danger that cruising (especially the shorter cruises on large ships) will come to be looked at the same way that I'd think of vacations in the Catskills in the 1950s and 1960s, for example -- quaint, but terribly old-fashioned. I don't think any amount of aging would change my perspective on that.

......

 

Good reminder. i was shocked when I saw Grosinger's in a haunted ruins internet photo file. I remember all the Poconos Honeymoon resort ads in the bridal magazines back in the 1960s. Assume they went by the wayside too.

[navybankerteacher]

70 is the new 30.

 

If lancal is correct in identifying "60 is the new 80" - what does that make the old 80's ? -- I hope it was a mis-statement, because otherwise there will no longer be many 80's around (the new centenarians) and the 60's will mainly be on scooters.

[Aquahound]

Cruise lines need to ensure that cruising remains relevant. There's a danger that cruising (especially the shorter cruises on large ships) will come to be looked at the same way that I'd think of vacations in the Catskills in the 1950s and 1960s, for example -- quaint, but terribly old-fashioned. I don't think any amount of aging would change my perspective on that.

 

Some cruise lines seem to have tapped into a greater wish among vacationing Gen Xers and even some of the younger Baby Boomers to have a more 'deluxe' experience in the midst of a large mass-market ship. Hence the popularity of suite perks and special enclaves onboard some ships. I can't get onboard with the idea myself (pun intended), but apparently the thought among these consumers is to be able to partake of the benefits of being on a larger ship but at the same time also have an exclusive area where they can avoid the mass-market crowds. To me, this is one thing that represents a shift in attitude, at least among cruisers, in the last 20-30 years.

 

Of course they need to remain relevant and that means looking past the Baby Boomers. They are building ships that need to be relevant...or able to be refurbished as relevant for the next 20 years. That means catering to technology addicts and the anxiety driven populous who always need to be on the move.

 

They most certainly can continue to cater to the older generations...they just need to forecast who that older generation is going to be 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now.

[infinitiandbeyond]

Well, I hope I am the "new breed" Im 45, work in IT, and my first cruise will be the 14 day Alaska Explorer on Amsterdam June 5. 28 more days and I can't wait. Something about the quiet, relaxed pace, getting dressed for dinner, exploring new lands, and most importantly being disconnected from the regular world sounds...well, amazing! Anyone else on the same cruise?

[OlsSalt]

If lancal is correct in identifying "60 is the new 80" - what does that make the old 80's ? -- I hope it was a mis-statement, because otherwise there will no longer be many 80's around (the new centenarians) and the 60's will mainly be on scooters.

 

Here is the way it works, 80 years olds are the new 20 year olds - silly and brash. And 90 year olds soon start acting sadly like 5 year olds ...... (except for the ones who don't)

[OlsSalt]

What do we know about "tech addicts" and the kinds of vacations they now take? Or do they.

 

Maybe all they will need in the future is putting on a pair of glasses and they can be any where they want to be in the entire world and universe beyond -all the sights and smells at a touch of a keypad. Maybe cruising will always be something else - something more visceral, more elemental. More unwound.