Who is HAL's new breed of customers?

[OlsSalt]

Well said, that's all some are asking for, a few additional entertainment options, you either partake or you don't......it's just that easy!!

 

Keep thinking crew beds -- add something new means taking away something old. Not that everything needs to be permanently set in stone, but crew beds are the static limitation to everything HAL offers onboard. Nothing more to read into that than the facts of life HAL needs to juggle when they are caught between competing customer demands/wishes and there are not enough crew beds to go around.

[doone]

Showing a movie on the deck doesn't take up any "crew beds"....and while I truly understand what your saying about where to house the help, I can't help but ask on the older ships when I sailed them oh so many years ago, there was a lot more activities on sea days, what happened to those crew beds, as those ships are still sailing?

[RuthC]

Showing a movie on the deck doesn't take up any "crew beds"....and while I truly understand what your saying about where to house the help, I can't help but ask on the older ships when I sailed them oh so many years ago, there was a lot more activities on sea days, what happened to those crew beds, as those ships are still sailing?

Doone, I know we both go back to the days when every sea day was filled with so many non-stop activities that we had to make choices of what we could get to. Those days are long gone, and I agree that a day full of trivia, Pictionary, Scattergories, and all the other fun & games made the shipboard aspect of cruising attractive.

 

But some of the crew beds that were once filled by activities staff, who cost HAL money, are now filled with an acupuncturist, teeth whitening specialist, and assorted other people who bring in money to HAL.

HAL took the focus off making an opportunity for passengers to have a good time, to replace it with making an opportunity to make more money off the passengers.

[iancal]

Cannot imagine why anyone would cruise on a HAL ship to watch TCM movies like Casablanca when they could do it much easier from the comfort of their home. Much less expensive, and better popcorn too. It would be akin to eliminating all live music and going with juke boxes.

[RuthC]

Cannot imagine why anyone would cruise on a HAL ship to watch TCM movies like Casablanca when they could do it much easier from the comfort of their home. Much less expensive, and better popcorn too. It would be akin to eliminating all live music and going with juke boxes.

Can your imagination conceive of the possibility that not everyone can watch TCM in the comfort of their home?

Some of us don't get that channel. Some of us have other things to do with our time at home. Some of us like to do things on vacation that are out of our ordinary.

[doone]

Doone, I know we both go back to the days when every sea day was filled with so many non-stop activities that we had to make choices of what we could get to. Those days are long gone, and I agree that a day full of trivia, Pictionary, Scattergories, and all the other fun & games made the shipboard aspect of cruising attractive.

 

But some of the crew beds that were once filled by activities staff, who cost HAL money, are now filled with an acupuncturist, teeth whitening specialist, and assorted other people who bring in money to HAL.

HAL took the focus off making an opportunity for passengers to have a good time, to replace it with making an opportunity to make more money off the passengers.

 

Thanks RuthC, your right those were the days that made me love cruising, truly sad.

I still enjoy it but differently....

[anonmom]

This was on NCL. They don't have Explore 4. That's HAL. Since his "bar tab" is mostly bottled water and coffee drinks, there was no real value to NCL's "Ultimate Beverage Package," because it ultimately doesn't cover his beverages.

Ok, I guess I should have said that NCL is the only mass-market cruise line that consistently offers free unlimited alcoholic beverages as an option that is included in the fare.

 

My point was that I am an NCL cruiser who would love to try some of HAL's exotic itineraries, and it would not bother me a bit that HAL ships are quieter at night than NCL ships, or that HAL ships have fewer bells and whistles than NCL's ships.

 

For me, the issue is one of affordability. If HAL brings back the Explore 4 promotion, I'll be very excited to try HAL. I just can't afford it otherwise.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Forums mobile app

[navybankerteacher]

Please, anyone out there, can you turn this thread into a thread about smoking, tipping or formal wear. :) At least some of those were interesting as opposed to the mumbo jumbo assumptions we are being subjected to here.

It seems that a few posters should seriously consider switching to decaf. :rolleyes:

 

Well said. A lot of people like HAL the way it is and have no wish for it to be updated. A lot of others believe it should be updated: perhaps they should sail on "updated" lines. I can't help thinking that some old fashioned thinking by HAL's management might not be all bad -- they do seem to continually sell out - and at prices which equal and sometimes exceed the "up to date" lines. Maybe, just maybe, having a dowdy old approach is not all bad.

[Florida_gal_50]

There are many other cruise lines besides HAL to choose from, for those wanting US departures. Lots of inventory. Wish the 2016 CCL Annual Report did a breakdown of offerings and revenue analysis between CCL's various brands.

I can guarantee hal will never leave the Caribbean. . Perhaps it's time for you took look elsewhere. Hal must change or die. Like it or not.

[Florida_gal_50]

Well said. A lot of people like HAL the way it is and have no wish for it to be updated. A lot of others believe it should be updated: perhaps they should sail on "updated" lines. I can't help thinking that some old fashioned thinking by HAL's management might not be all bad -- they do seem to continually sell out - and at prices which equal and sometimes exceed the "up to date" lines. Maybe, just maybe, having a dowdy old approach is not all bad.

I would love to know where you are getting the information that hal continually sells out at higher prices. I've seen some prices this year that I never thought possible and it I don't see a lot of sell outs. One exception would be Alaska.

[Bostonjetset]

Ok, I guess I should have said that NCL is the only mass-market cruise line that consistently offers free unlimited alcoholic beverages as an option that is included in the fare.

 

My point was that I am an NCL cruiser who would love to try some of HAL's exotic itineraries, and it would not bother me a bit that HAL ships are quieter at night than NCL ships, or that HAL ships have fewer bells and whistles than NCL's ships.

 

For me, the issue is one of affordability. If HAL brings back the Explore 4 promotion, I'll be very excited to try HAL. I just can't afford it otherwise.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Forums mobile app

Hundreds of dollars in mandatory gratuities for the NCL beverage package is hardly free. They are the only line I know of that touts "free" drink packages but then makes passengers pay tips on the package. When HAL offers this [or Princess or RCI or Carnival for that matter] free means free [well at least in the sense that there are no hidden costs. Of course one is usually paying for these promos by way of a higher fare than when it is not included]. Also, the drinks on HAL are MUCH cheaper than almost any other line. Most are less than $8 unless you want ultra top-shelf brands. One must drink at least 5 drinks per day for it to almost break even with the cost of an unlimited package on HAL.

 

In terms of overall cost, I haven't found HAL to be that much more than NCL, especially for cruises in Europe. In the Caribbean HAL is usually more expensive than NCL but deals can be found, especially if one books very early or very late.

 

For what it is worth [in keeping with the theme of the thread], I am only 34 and HAL is one of my favourite lines to sail with. I love Cunard too; maybe I'm an "old soul"? haha. We've sampled most of the major lines except for Celebrity and HAL has some of the best itineraries and the service is wonderful.

[Tampa Girl]

I can guarantee hal will never leave the Caribbean. . Perhaps it's time for you took look elsewhere. Hal must change or die. Like it or not.

 

No one is asking that HAL should leave the Caribbean, and your response to OlsSalts post was not responsive. If you want more Caribbean cruises, there are plenty to choose from on other lines. Incidentally, what data do you have to support your contention that HAL is in a "change or die" condition? I would be interested in seeing it.

[navybankerteacher]

I can guarantee hal will never leave the Caribbean. . Perhaps it's time for you took look elsewhere. Hal must change or die. Like it or not.

 

Who is Hal? If your diagnosis is correct, I hope he does change.

 

But, we are talking about HAL here- which seems to be doing rather well providing the quality experience a lot of people seem to like.

[Florida_gal_50]

No one is asking that HAL should leave the Caribbean, and your response to OlsSalts post was not responsive. If you want more Caribbean cruises, there are plenty to choose from on other lines. Incidentally, what data do you have to support your contention that HAL is in a "change or die" condition? I would be interested in seeing it.

Olssalt has mentioned it many, many times. I am not saying that I want more Caribbean cruises but how can hal survive if it does nothing but long exotic cruises? That is simply not feasible for young families and those of us still in the workforce. Olssalt has suggested posters go to other lines for shorter Caribbean cruises. Do you believe that it what hal wants as well?

[Florida_gal_50]

Who is Hal? If your diagnosis is correct, I hope he does change.

 

But, we are talking about HAL here- which seems to be doing rather well providing the quality experience a lot of people seem to like.

I agree. I'm not the one who is saying Hal (Holland America line) should only do long exotic cruises. That would be a drastic change in my opinion and not one that would be a wise business decision if they want to attract younger cruisers.

[cruisemom42]

Economics would dictate that if HAL becomes a line of "medium sized" ships, HAL will de facto have to become more expensive than their current mass-market competition. The fixed costs per passenger are higher on medium sized ships than on large ships. Someone in Princess management said to me quite clearly -- in regard to selling some of the smaller R-class ships -- that the larger ships of the line were subsidizing the smaller ones. They couldn't charge fares that would be higher enough to ensure the same degree to profitability on the small ships because people wouldn't pay it (using a mass market line model).

 

HAL has somewhat mitigated this by maintained older medium-sized ships; i.e., the initial cost of the ship is less of a factor.

But if what you traditionalists want is a HAL line of smaller and medium sized ships (which at some point would have to be replaced with newer vessels) that ONLY sail longer itineraries -- again, not the cash cow that the shorter Caribbean/Alaskan itineraries traditionally have been) -- then you are going to wind up with a line that's considerably more expensive. (Think Viking Ocean....)

 

Other than in fantasies, I really don't think it's possibly for HAL to provide long interesting itineraries on new-build medium-sized ships without charging more for them -- and if they do that, they will lose some of you who've made it clear that cost is definitely a key factor. AND they will have to offer more of what this itinerary-seeking customer with the money to pay for long cruises will want.

 

Current strategies of similar lines would seem to suggest that key points would not necessarily be entertainment but availability of very good food (either included or at extra cost); more modern, deluxe finishes; spa services; connectivity, etc.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think HAL may have missed an opportunity to become a Viking Ocean-type brand. With additional larger ships on order, it would appear to me that the decision has already been made NOT to go in that direction. So I think if you're going to speculate about who is the 'coming' passenger that HAL will be targeting, you have to do so in the frame of reference of the newer, larger ships that are planned....

[Tampa Girl]

I haven't read any post in this thread that suggests HAL should do only long or exotic cruises; or do only U.S. cruises. I have been very satisfied with the diverse type and number of cruises presently in effect. And there are plenty of 7-10 days cruises to attract those who cannot, for whatever reason, spend fourteen+ days on a ship.

 

It is my impression from many, many posts, that one of the major attractions to HAL is their itineraries. Why would we want to change this? I haven't seen evidence of why HAL needs to change this.

[iancal]

cruisemom42....I think that your comments are spot on.

 

My sense is that HAL is trying to get the last drop of service out of their older vessels. The trade off is probably higher mtce costs, lower energy efficiency, and the chance of failure of large and costly systems breakdowns that take a considerable amount dry dock time to repair/replace. HAL's goal will be to unload these vessels prior to any such failure.

 

HAL could well be left in a situation where their only true market differentiator is itinerary. Not such a great place to be since any competitor can come in a compete in this space.

[sail7seas]

Doone, I know we both go back to the days when every sea day was filled with so many non-stop activities that we had to make choices of what we could get to. Those days are long gone, and I agree that a day full of trivia, Pictionary, Scattergories, and all the other fun & games made the shipboard aspect of cruising attractive.

 

But some of the crew beds that were once filled by activities staff, who cost HAL money, are now filled with an acupuncturist, teeth whitening specialist, and assorted other people who bring in money to HAL.

HAL took the focus off making an opportunity for passengers to have a good time, to replace it with making an opportunity to make more money off the passengers.

 

 

 

 

 

I

Yes, ^^^ This.

I remember the fun some had with the 'horse races, build a ship, competition. golf, putting at aft pool.

[Aquahound]

Hundreds of dollars in mandatory gratuities for the NCL beverage package is hardly free. They are the only line I know of that touts "free" drink packages but then makes passengers pay tips on the package. When HAL offers this [or Princess or RCI or Carnival for that matter] free means free [well at least in the sense that there are no hidden costs.

 

Exactly. Not to mention, you have to pay an increased fare (sometimes significant) to get the free-at-sea promotion to begin with...then they tack on the hundreds of dollars in gratuities.

[POA1]

I

Yes, ^^^ This.

I remember the fun some had with the 'horse races, build a ship, competition. golf, putting at aft pool.

 

Don't forget the ice carving demos. Everyone I know found the ice carving demos interesting. The problem is that there's not a lot of repeat value - unless you count being able to guess that "It's going to be a seahorse!" much to the delight of your first time cruiser friends.

 

They need to have Wayback Machine Cruises with Dutch Night and Hats, Mr. & Mrs. (Insert Ship Name Here) full blown chocolate extravaganza, and so on.

 

 

Although I must admit the passed chocolate desserts on our recent Eurodam cruise were pretty nice. It was like the chocolate extravaganza for people who are too lazy to walk along a buffet line. They even held it in the Gallery Bar & Billboard Onboard in case your attention span was too short to wait between trays of treats and you needed to keep yourself occupied.

[legaljen1969]

I see no relationship between the comments on this thread and our experiences on Holland. I would ignore these comments.

I find the comments interesting, but I am by no means put off by them. I would certainly try HAL. My husband is 54 and I am 47. We are both pretty quiet and a bit introverted, so I am thinking we might well enjoy HAL.

There are drama queens/kings on every board. Just ignore the most extreme posts- i.e. the Loyalist cheerleaders who say HAL can do no wrong and the ones that say "HAL is the worst." Somewhere in between are the opinions you most likely want to consider. That goes for every line. Pay no attention to the haters and the drones and you will find lots of good information.

[legaljen1969]

The title of this website is CRUISE CRITIC, not HAPPY CRUISES.

 

CRITIC from the Greek word "Kritikos" Able to Judge........

It also doesn't mean that everything has to be negative. Sometimes "judgment" points out positive things and good arguments too.

[EDLOS]

It also doesn't mean that everything has to be negative. Sometimes "judgment" points out positive things and good arguments too.

 

Absolutely, and those positive things have been pointed out i.e. Itineraries are outstanding and my primary reason for being a 4 Star on HAL. (101 days on HAL between Jan.15,2016 and Feb.14, 2017) I think the food on HAL in MDR is as good as or better than I have had in the MDR on Silverseas, Regent and Oceania as is the service for dining, cabin, and bars. But HAL is tinkering or deminishing entertainment, activities, libraries, lectures, etc. which means a lot of those 101 days were sea days probably 25 + and my Kindle is groaning under the load. Yes, I have also sailed NCL, Costa, RCL, MSC, Celebrity, everyone of those two or more times except Costa. (once was enough on Costa, you need combat pay for being in a buffet line on Costa )...... AND we all need to have a sense of humor on Cruise Critic posts.

[kalliekae]

Well you just have a riproaring time in Alaska and the Baltics in the middle of winter, sign me up for that cruise, jeez, why would anyone want the Caribbean when they can cruise Stockholm in January?

 

Please follow the conversation if you're going to post. We're talking about where to put the ships in the winter season if not the Caribbean.

 

There was no reason for your rude post. I was replying to a previous poster who stated that the people she knew that were under 60 only cruised on HAL for the Caribbean since those cruises were 7 days or less.

 

This thread has taken several different turns since it started. Let's try to be respectful and pleasant when posting.