Gratuities question

[dodger1964]

How much do you get paid and how does your company come up with your salary? I don't really want to know, but think about how rude it would be if I really asked you this question. Do you go in to your local grocery store and ask them how they get paid or how about your hair stylist? I think it is rude to ask anyone about their salary or how their salary is derived at, etc. and I think Celebrity is totally correct with their policy of crew not talking about it and if a crew member brought it up in conversation, I would wonder why.

 

I think it is very fair question to ask, "if I give you a cash tip, do you keep it (100% for yourself), or does it have to be turned in and pooled".

[mafig]

I couldn't agree more. It never fails to amaze me how some cruise passengers take an inordinate interest in matters that they wouldn't think of prying into elsewhere. I can't imagine them staying at a hotel and trying to find out how the restaurant staff or chambermaids are compensated.

 

 

I couldn't agree more either.:D

Here in Florida during the summer many local restaurants have BOGO offers. However, they clearly state that the gratuity will be added automatically for the full amount. OK with me. However, should I concern myself or ask the server if they "really" are getting the full amount? Or if I put the tip on a CC if they get it vs. putting it on the table?

[markeb]

I think it is very fair question to ask, "if I give you a cash tip, do you keep it (100% for yourself), or does it have to be turned in and pooled".

 

Why? Are you not going to tip if they pool?

 

The only time I've ever asked anything like that was at a retail wine shop with a wine bar and a tip jar, and it was because two people who were clearly peers had both assisted me and I wanted to know if I needed a five to each of them or one ten in the jar. Although from what I've heard, essentially everyone "pools" tips, either directly as a condition of employment or by re-tipping the bartender, busser, etc., whose help the server needed.

 

My officemate doesn't know my actual salary, and we work for the same company. Compensation just isn't ever a fair question, other than maybe public employees where it's a matter of public record.

[dodger1964]

Why? Are you not going to tip if they pool?

 

The only time I've ever asked anything like that was at a retail wine shop with a wine bar and a tip jar, and it was because two people who were clearly peers had both assisted me and I wanted to know if I needed a five to each of them or one ten in the jar. Although from what I've heard, essentially everyone "pools" tips, either directly as a condition of employment or by re-tipping the bartender, busser, etc., whose help the server needed.

 

My officemate doesn't know my actual salary, and we work for the same company. Compensation just isn't ever a fair question, other than maybe public employees where it's a matter of public record.

 

I guess if they are pooling tips will just have to start paying them thru paypal (or whatever other money payment app). If I want to reward a specific employee for giving me good service I want them to get my money.

 

I have no problem with pooling the daily tip charge...(I think it would be ethical for X to actually give us some kind of allocation of where our money is going), but if I want to reward good service, I want it to go to the person that actually provided it to me.

[NLH Arizona]

(I think it would be ethical for X to actually give us some kind of allocation of where our money is going)

Why? When you make purchases at a business, your are paying the employees' salaries, so do you ask them how much of your purchase goes to each employee's salary?

[dodger1964]

Why? When you make purchases at a business, your are paying the employees' salaries, so do you ask them how much of your purchase goes to each employee's salary?

 

No I don't, when I make a purchase I pay the business the sales price and they pay their expenses with that cash, including wages and whatever benefits they provide to their employees...that is all none of my business.

 

That is the end of my transaction with that business.

 

Separately from that, if I want to tip someone that gives me good service I want that person to actually get my money.

 

It is called a "tip", and has nothing to do with the business...Someone did something for me, over and above the service that the business paid them for, and I want to give them some of my money. I don't want to give someone else the money...I want to give it to the specific person.

[MrsNorman]

I couldn't agree more. It never fails to amaze me how some cruise passengers take an inordinate interest in matters that they wouldn't think of prying into elsewhere. I can't imagine them staying at a hotel and trying to find out how the restaurant staff or chambermaids are compensated.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. The staff in my local grocers, my hairdresser and myself included all have at least a minimum wage. As far as I know restaurant staff and chambermaids get that as well, so I don't worry too much about their earnings even though we leave a tip for them. Also, most people are able to move on to another job if we feel we can do better elsewhere. As a rule, working conditions for us are not bad so we would not expect anyone to be concerned about us.

 

I don't think it is prying to want to know if the cruise staff's working conditions are fair, including them benefiting from any tips they might deserve, because their circumstances are obviously different, and may be open to exploitation. And I think we all want to know that in supporting the cruise companies we are supporting people who treat their staff well, which I hope and pray they do.

[SantaFeFan]

..... but feel a bit uneasy about whether the staff are actually getting the tips.

 

..... no one really knows whether the cruise line pocket some of this extra cash or whether it all goes to the crew. .....

 

 

Many thanks for your reply but it seems that while some people are reassured, like yourself, that the tips are going to the right hands, many other people still doubt and I think it is time that cruise liners like Celebrity are transparent and open about who gets what - and whether the crew will lose their jobs if they don't get a 10 on the feedback form - so that we all know.

 

Lets be perfectly clear about one thing - the only people who wonder if the cruise lines are pocketing some of the gratuities are from countries who hate the idea of tipping for anything. Most of you fight the long established tipping policies on many cruise lines, even though you know well in advance what the policies are and voluntarily choose to cruise on those lines anyway, and then look for any and every excuse to rationalize not tipping. :rolleyes:

 

......We only know that when talking to the cabin steward about gratuities he had been told not to discuss with the passengers, we could see the fear in his eyes the worry for his job security.

 

As for being suspicious because the staff tells you not to discuss their wages and gratuities with passengers, do you discuss your wages with people you come into contact with in the course of your jobs? Of course not!! It is ludicrous to expect employees of other companies to do the so when you would be insulted if it was your wages being questioned. :rolleyes:

 

And why would he have "fear in his eyes the worry for his job security"? If he told you "None of your business", he should instead be proud that he is able to follow the rules he agreed to when he signed up for employment.

 

Fear in his eyes? What a laughable claim to make!! The look in his eyes was more likely a feeling of being insulted by your impertinent questions. :rolleyes:

Edited May 31, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[PoppyandNana]

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. The staff in my local grocers, my hairdresser and myself included all have at least a minimum wage. As far as I know restaurant staff and chambermaids get that as well, so I don't worry too much about their earnings even though we leave a tip for them. Also, most people are able to move on to another job if we feel we can do better elsewhere. As a rule, working conditions for us are not bad so we would not expect anyone to be concerned about us.

 

I don't think it is prying to want to know if the cruise staff's working conditions are fair, including them benefiting from any tips they might deserve, because their circumstances are obviously different, and may be open to exploitation. And I think we all want to know that in supporting the cruise companies we are supporting people who treat their staff well, which I hope and pray they do.

 

Sorry but it is none of your business how the staff are compensated; when they are compensated; how much they are compensated; how much of the tip pool they receive; how many days off they get; how they do their laundry; what country they are from; if they are married; how many kids they have or any other rude and intrusive question you can think of.

 

It is not your role, job, responsibility or business to know whether the working conditions are fair or not. You are a passenger on a cruise ship. You paid a fare for agreed transport and amenities. How the employees are treated or paid is none of your business.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't think it is prying to want to know if the cruise staff's working conditions are fair, including them benefiting from any tips they might deserve, because their circumstances are obviously different, and may be open to exploitation. And I think we all want to know that in supporting the cruise companies we are supporting people who treat their staff well, which I hope and pray they do.

I'm guessing that you inquire at every business you do business with how their employees are treated. If you feel that you have to ask employees if they are treated properly or if they are exploited or not, maybe you should not do business with those companies. The crew members sign a contract and they know what the minimum salary they will received, they receive room and board, medical care, etc. If they felt that they are not being treated properly, they are free to leave. If they are treated badly then why is it that many crew members have been with the cruise line for many, many years.

[springfire]

No I don't, when I make a purchase I pay the business the sales price and they pay their expenses with that cash, including wages and whatever benefits they provide to their employees...that is all none of my business.

 

That is the end of my transaction with that business.

 

Separately from that, if I want to tip someone that gives me good service I want that person to actually get my money.

 

It is called a "tip", and has nothing to do with the business...Someone did something for me, over and above the service that the business paid them for, and I want to give them some of my money. I don't want to give someone else the money...I want to give it to the specific person.

 

Agreed!

[markeb]

No I don't, when I make a purchase I pay the business the sales price and they pay their expenses with that cash, including wages and whatever benefits they provide to their employees...that is all none of my business.

 

That is the end of my transaction with that business.

 

Separately from that, if I want to tip someone that gives me good service I want that person to actually get my money.

It is called a "tip", and has nothing to do with the business...Someone did something for me, over and above the service that the business paid them for, and I want to give them some of my money. I don't want to give someone else the money...I want to give it to the specific person.

 

That's great in theory, but not the way it really works in almost any tipped employee system. Yes, maybe the server at the little mom & pop diner, but not many other places.

 

I'm assuming you're in the US? The Fair Labor Standards Act sets up an entire legal system for paying "tipped employees", including allowing the employer to mandate a tipping pool, and restricting who can be in it. That doesn't apply on a cruise ship, but if you leave a tip in almost any restaurant on land, it's going to get split somehow, including to the absolute dirtbag who almost spilled the drink on you. If you tip the valet who brings your car around and the doorman loads your bags, they're probably splitting the tip. If you leave a $20 in your hotel room for the nice person who left their name on a card in your room, it probably goes into a pool with other housekeepers, at least those who also cleaned your room while you were there. And in those systems, pooling is a condition of employment; pocketing the cash and not sharing can get you fired, and don't believe for a moment that you won't be found out. Legally, it has everything to do with the business.

 

Tip because you appreciated the service, but don't assume it's only going to the person you handed the money to.

[fshagan]

Just go on glassdoor.com to see what employees have said they were earning. This screenshot shows some of the Celebrity Cruises salaries:

 

There are some obvious outliers in the numbers; I don't think a waitress earns $4,000 a month when all the other cruise lines (and even Celebrity on that same screen shot) show an hourly wage of about $10 per hour. The waitress would have to work 13 hours a day 7 days a week to earn that amount. Their union won't allow them to work that long. They don't work those hours, but they do work more than a 40 hour week, often on a split schedule. So the job is hard. (Bartenders, on the other hand, report from $3,000 to $4,000 per month on RCL, Celebrity, and NCL).

 

Here's my theory about how the pay / tips things works:

 

I suspect the wages they get are a contracted amount. Tips are not taxable income in some countries, such as the Philippines. If their check shows $500 in wages and $500 in tips then they pay taxes on the $500 in wages and not on the tips. That's by design of their home country's tax policies, which are created to encourage workers to take service position jobs. In the Philippines a wage of $1,000 a month is roughly equivalent to 4 to 5 times that much in the US. They are earning as much as aircraft mechanics, legal assistants and other similar professionals in their home countries.

 

"Super savers" from the UK can remove their auto-gratuities with impunity; I don't believe it immediately affects the pay of that crew on that sailing. However, over time, pooled incentive programs and shared tip pools shrink if enough customers stop paying into them. The Filipino will end up with $800 in wages and $200 in tips on his check, and pay a high progressive tax rate. So you do hurt the little guy when you are "sticking it to the man".

 

I asked the Hotel Manager on out last NCL cruise and he said the cabin stewards keep their cash tips and the "pool" talked about on the NCL boards is a myth. Only the service charge is a pool (NCL admits it is more than just part of the salary, but also helps pay for other services like medical for the crew). Bartenders and others may pool their cash tips by prior arrangement, or they might keep them all. But they are not compelled to put it in a tip pool. I'm not sure about Celebrity, but I suspect they follow suit. Finding, training and keeping workers is one of their biggest challenges.

 

Those of us with consciences who worry about taking a cruise where workers are exploited can rest easy. The workers are certainly working hard, and are earning every penny, but they are in the best jobs they can get. They are not exploited. They are employed.

[CEOofVacation]

On my last cruise, I chatted with the bartenders in Michaels and the wait staff in Luminae. I consistently heard from the staff that they were very glad to have been accepted by Celebrity because they were the best paymaster in the cruise industry and they said "they make alot of money" working on the ship and they were very happy. I did not ask and these folks simply offered the information. They usually started the conversation about this is their x contract... And when it runs out and they want to renew etc. So I won't be too worried about exploitation. Regardless, this is free economy. Everyone is free to work for a different employer.

[SantaFeFan]

On my last cruise, I chatted with the bartenders in Michaels and the wait staff in Luminae. I consistently heard from the staff that they were very glad to have been accepted by Celebrity because they were the best paymaster in the cruise industry and they said "they make alot of money" working on the ship and they were very happy. I did not ask and these folks simply offered the information. They usually started the conversation about this is their x contract... And when it runs out and they want to renew etc. So I won't be too worried about exploitation. Regardless, this is free economy. Everyone is free to work for a different employer.

 

Thank you for confirming what most of us on this side of the pond understand.

 

Those know-it-all bleeding hearts that are so convinced that the staff is being exploited by the cruise lines should worry about themselves being exploited by their own employers. From my experience, the staff on a cruise ship are happier than the employees of most land based companies. In other words - such people should mind their own business and keep their busy-body noses out of everyone else's private affairs. :mad:

Edited June 1, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[CEOofVacation]

Thank you for confirming what most of us on this side of the pond believe. Those bleeding hearts that are so convinced that the staff is being exploited should worry about themselves being exploited by their own employers. From my experience, the staff on a cruise ship are happier than the employees of land based most companies. In other words - they should mind their own business and keep their busy-body noses out of everyone else's private affairs. :mad:

Like! :D

[caribill]

How much do you get paid and how does your company come up with your salary? I don't really want to know, but think about how rude it would be if I really asked you this question. Do you go in to your local grocery store and ask them how they get paid or how about your hair stylist? I think it is rude to ask anyone about their salary or how their salary is derived at, etc. and I think Celebrity is totally correct with their policy of crew not talking about it and if a crew member brought it up in conversation, I would wonder why.

 

This is comparing apples and oranges.

 

Your tips to the crew, whether by auto-tip or handed top them, are a substantial part of their compensation.

 

When you purchase groceries, you are not giving money to the employees except very indirectly. Their pay does not change if you did not shop there that week or even at all.

 

I am willing to bet if you asked the appropriate manager (Hotel Director?) on a ship, you will be told how your daily tip is divided up among cabin steward, dining room waiter, assistant waiter, headwaiter, room service and other personnel.

 

 

On one cruise line I have been on before auto-tips, there was a suggested daily amount to tip (at the end of the cruise) to various staff. When the auto-tip was initiated, it was at the total of what had been the suggested amounts.

[frealan]

Lots of interesting replies. But the bottom line is that the cruise lines are the employers, and not the passengers. It is their responsibility to pay their staff, not ours. At a proper rate. We do that by paying our fares.

And if, as someone said earlier, staff who receive tips (a word which, by the way was invented by Twinings Tea in London) tax-free and furthermore the do not necessarily go to the people you want the money to go to, isn't that even more of a disincentive to pay them?

 

 

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[MrsNorman]

Just go on glassdoor.com to see what employees have said they were earning. This screenshot shows some of the Celebrity Cruises salaries:

 

There are some obvious outliers in the numbers; I don't think a waitress earns $4,000 a month when all the other cruise lines (and even Celebrity on that same screen shot) show an hourly wage of about $10 per hour. The waitress would have to work 13 hours a day 7 days a week to earn that amount. Their union won't allow them to work that long. They don't work those hours, but they do work more than a 40 hour week, often on a split schedule. So the job is hard. (Bartenders, on the other hand, report from $3,000 to $4,000 per month on RCL, Celebrity, and NCL).

 

Here's my theory about how the pay / tips things works:

 

I suspect the wages they get are a contracted amount. Tips are not taxable income in some countries, such as the Philippines. If their check shows $500 in wages and $500 in tips then they pay taxes on the $500 in wages and not on the tips. That's by design of their home country's tax policies, which are created to encourage workers to take service position jobs. In the Philippines a wage of $1,000 a month is roughly equivalent to 4 to 5 times that much in the US. They are earning as much as aircraft mechanics, legal assistants and other similar professionals in their home countries.

 

"Super savers" from the UK can remove their auto-gratuities with impunity; I don't believe it immediately affects the pay of that crew on that sailing. However, over time, pooled incentive programs and shared tip pools shrink if enough customers stop paying into them. The Filipino will end up with $800 in wages and $200 in tips on his check, and pay a high progressive tax rate. So you do hurt the little guy when you are "sticking it to the man".

 

I asked the Hotel Manager on out last NCL cruise and he said the cabin stewards keep their cash tips and the "pool" talked about on the NCL boards is a myth. Only the service charge is a pool (NCL admits it is more than just part of the salary, but also helps pay for other services like medical for the crew). Bartenders and others may pool their cash tips by prior arrangement, or they might keep them all. But they are not compelled to put it in a tip pool. I'm not sure about Celebrity, but I suspect they follow suit. Finding, training and keeping workers is one of their biggest challenges.

 

Those of us with consciences who worry about taking a cruise where workers are exploited can rest easy. The workers are certainly working hard, and are earning every penny, but they are in the best jobs they can get. They are not exploited. They are employed.

 

 

Many thanks for your post, that is very reassuring and food for thought. :)

[MrsNorman]

On my last cruise, I chatted with the bartenders in Michaels and the wait staff in Luminae. I consistently heard from the staff that they were very glad to have been accepted by Celebrity because they were the best paymaster in the cruise industry and they said "they make alot of money" working on the ship and they were very happy. I did not ask and these folks simply offered the information. They usually started the conversation about this is their x contract... And when it runs out and they want to renew etc. So I won't be too worried about exploitation. Regardless, this is free economy. Everyone is free to work for a different employer.

 

Thank you for your post, that's good to hear. :)

[MrsNorman]

Lots of interesting replies. But the bottom line is that the cruise lines are the employers, and not the passengers. It is their responsibility to pay their staff, not ours. At a proper rate. We do that by paying our fares.

And if, as someone said earlier, staff who receive tips (a word which, by the way was invented by Twinings Tea in London) tax-free and furthermore the do not necessarily go to the people you want the money to go to, isn't that even more of a disincentive to pay them?

 

 

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No, not for me. I happily pay my tips (or use the "tips paid" perk which I am told is the same as paying tips) and if I think it appropriate to tip someone a little extra, I'll do so. :)

[DirtyDawg]

I am always interested reading these ‘who gets what’ threads. Frankly, I don't care if my auto tip or my cash tip is pooled or not. If there is a pool I don't care if the pool split is set by the crew themselves or by the cruise line. If the crew is satisfied by the agreed to arrangement, so I'm I. That does not mean that I don't care if the crew is compensated fairly, I do.... to a degree. It's just like I care that my mechanic is compensated fairly by his employer but I still want that oil change for $39.95, not $89.95. And I want my Swiss Chalet server (it’s a big Chicken restaurant chain up here in Canada) to be fairly compensated but I still want my quarter chicken dinner to cost $9.99 not $19.99. And if some of my $3 tip goes to the busboy/busgirl or the kitchen staff, so what, they worked hard to to make my meal great too (I love SC :), could you tell?).

Edited June 1, 2017 by DirtyDawg

[awhcruiser]

Where is the like button?

I am always interested reading these ‘who gets what’ threads. Frankly, I don't care if my auto tip or my cash tip is pooled or not. If there is a pool I don't care if the pool split is set by the crew themselves or by the cruise line. If the crew is satisfied by the agreed to arrangement, so I'm I. That does not mean that I don't care if the crew is compensated fairly, I do.... to a degree. It's just like I care that my mechanic is compensated fairly by his employer but I still want that oil change for $39.95, not $89.95. And I want my Swiss Chalet server (it’s a big Chicken restaurant chain up here in Canada) to be fairly compensated but I still want my quarter chicken dinner to cost $9.99 not $19.99. And if some of my $3 tip goes to the busboy/busgirl or the kitchen staff, so what, they worked hard to to make my meal great too (I love SC :), could you tell?).

[NLH Arizona]

And if, as someone said earlier, staff who receive tips (a word which, by the way was invented by Twinings Tea in London) tax-free and furthermore the do not necessarily go to the people you want the money to go to, isn't that even more of a disincentive to pay them?

 

 

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It is only an incentive to the person who wasn't going to pay it in the first place.

[grapau27]

I am always interested reading these ‘who gets what’ threads. Frankly, I don't care if my auto tip or my cash tip is pooled or not. If there is a pool I don't care if the pool split is set by the crew themselves or by the cruise line. If the crew is satisfied by the agreed to arrangement, so I'm I. That does not mean that I don't care if the crew is compensated fairly, I do.... to a degree. It's just like I care that my mechanic is compensated fairly by his employer but I still want that oil change for $39.95, not $89.95. And I want my Swiss Chalet server (it’s a big Chicken restaurant chain up here in Canada) to be fairly compensated but I still want my quarter chicken dinner to cost $9.99 not $19.99. And if some of my $3 tip goes to the busboy/busgirl or the kitchen staff, so what, they worked hard to to make my meal great too (I love SC :), could you tell?).

Good post, there are many people who help us who deserve a little extra.