NCL Cruise Service Charge Refund

[Wyoming2010]

Who doesn’t know they should be budgeting for tips?

 

Only people who have no business traveling.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

When I go out to eat, or stay at a resort, I always know to budget for tips. Having the cruise line now force our hand by automatically putting them onboard I think is bad business. I prefer the "old days" when we could add the tips to our account and/or tip extra in envelopes. JMO.

[Maniacal Cruiser]

Yes, but only the server would have gotten that tip where as the daily service charge is divided among more than just one person.

 

 

You do not know that. WHEREAS many places now pool tips and divide them among all servers and back end help, you are wrong.

[kristapb]

Does anyone believe that 100% of the DSC goes to the crew?

 

Yes/no will suffice.

 

Yes

[erdoran]

Who doesn’t know they should be budgeting for tips?

 

Only people who have no business traveling.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Nowadays, maybe. Back in the old days - NOT at all.

 

But before the rush to judgment - honeymooners, young couples, college kids, folks from non-tipping cultures, etc.....

 

Why not just INFORM people at the time the trip is booked? What's wrong with doing that? Informed decisions and all that. The DSC becomes a very substantial line item when added to a 1-2 week cruise for a family of 4 - rather than "you have no business travelling because you didn't add the DSC into your budget for the trip" - how about "Cruise fare $xx DSC $yy Total $zz"? What's wrong with doing that?

[ElaineKeagy]

I’ve known since I was a young child that you tip workers in the service industry. I don’t believe there are any honeymooners, college kids etc. that don’t know we live in a culture that tips. And if traveling to another area of the world, you research what the customs are there. Including tipping.

I don’t think the cruise lines are exactly hiding the service charges. I know exactly how much my service charge will be before I book.

But I do my due diligence.

 

 

 

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[erdoran]

I’ve known since I was a young child that you tip workers in the service industry. I don’t believe there are any honeymooners, college kids etc. that don’t know we live in a culture that tips. And if traveling to another area of the world, you research what the customs are there. Including tipping.

I don’t think the cruise lines are exactly hiding the service charges. I know exactly how much my service charge will be before I book.

But I do my due diligence.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Of course you do, and that's why you and I are having this chat on CC. But not everyone is as conscientious as you. There are all ranges of education, intelligence, finances and research and for that matter, computer-phobia in the general population. Just because people SHOULD do something doesn't mean they DO. Seems to me the end goal is that the DSC is paid, and that pax aren't shocked by a $200-$800 (more or less) additional charge AFTER final payment.

 

But I'm clearly naive - I believe every business transaction should be like I said above - all non-optional costs (and I consider DSC mandatory) clearly presented at booking time, when the customer has an opportunity to choose NOT to book, rather than "surprise, you owe another $800 and it's too late for a refund!". And there ARE people who are surprised, I'm sure.

 

My own personal experience - back before Internet days when there WAS no opportunity to research, as a family of 4 we did a big red boat sailing and WERE surprised by the envelopes at the end of the cruise. TA never told us, there was no CC, nothing was said in the brochure, and it added up to a hefty $300+, which was a LOT of $$ in 1988. Yes, we tipped appropriately and yes, we returned the next year, better prepared--but our budget WAS tight, we spent $0 extra on the cruise because of it and it WAS a shock. I don't want to see this happen to anyone else.

 

And even recently, on a Carnival cruise AFTER paying the DSC, which was clearly stated to include EVERYONE, the last day of the cruise, all day long it seemed, the entertainment director kept pushing people to tip the maitre d'. No guidelines, no info, just tip, tip, tip. I had done my homework, read every line in the brochure about the DSC, but was STILL surprised.

 

JMO. If it's a game, so be it-but I'm saying what I think.

[jb456]

Ncl should state what the dsc is. Half their pages say a service charge the other half says it's to tip the workers.

 

If it's a tip. You normally tip after you received the service. You decide the amount based on the service. You don't tip before and hope to get exceptional service.

 

Ncl needs to make their gimmick clear cause it looks like a scam to make more money.

[Maniacal Cruiser]

I’ve known since I was a young child that you tip workers in the service industry. I don’t believe there are any honeymooners, college kids etc. that don’t know we live in a culture that tips. And if traveling to another area of the world, you research what the customs are there. Including tipping.

I don’t think the cruise lines are exactly hiding the service charges. I know exactly how much my service charge will be before I book.

But I do my due diligence.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

You left "if they earn a tip" off of the end of the first sentence.

[Maniacal Cruiser]

Does anyone believe that 100% of the DSC goes to the crew?

 

Yes/no will suffice.

 

 

Yes, there is no reason to believe otherwise.

[jb456]

Yes, there is no reason to believe otherwise.

 

So let's Say the Breakaway sailing one trip (7days) at full capacity. 3963 passengers.

 

We know some rooms pay higher gratuities but let's Say everyone pays $14.50.

 

We also know not all workers are part of the gratuities buts let's just say all 1657 workers are part of it.

 

3963 x 14.50 x 7 =$402,244.5

 

402,244.5 divided by 1657 =$242.75

 

So do u believe in a 7 day trip every worker gets a $242 tip??

 

Now not all workers are part of the dsc so that$242.75 can be much higher when you calculate the amount of workers that are apart of it plus all the rooms that pay $17.50 and not $14.50

 

I seriously doubt all that money goes to the workers but that's just me.

[CruiseGal999]

I would walk out of a restaurant without leaving a tip if I had not had good service.

Go On : bring it on !

 

I have done that. It was a Denny's. Yeah, the word restaurant is used loosely ... but I SAW the waitress walk by my breakfast on the hot plate for a long time. When she was told repeatedly to deliver it, she picked up EACH and every one of my pancakes and then grabbed the plates and brought them over. I said ... "I just watched you pick up and touch each of my pancakes". She said "so? I'm a clean person!". I told my DH we were LEAVING ... he was PISSED. ??? His breakfast was completely wrong from what he ordered!

[Maniacal Cruiser]

So let's Say the Breakaway sailing one trip (7days) at full capacity. 3963 passengers.

 

We know some rooms pay higher gratuities but let's Say everyone pays $14.50.

 

We also know not all workers are part of the gratuities buts let's just say all 1657 workers are part of it.

 

3963 x 14.50 x 7 =$402,244.5

 

402,244.5 divided by 1657 =$242.75

 

So do u believe in a 7 day trip every worker gets a $242 tip??

 

Now not all workers are part of the dsc so that$242.75 can be much higher when you calculate the amount of workers that are apart of it plus all the rooms that pay $17.50 and not $14.50

 

I seriously doubt all that money goes to the workers but that's just me.

 

First off I do not know anyone named "u" so I cannot answer as to what that person thinks. Your entire argument is based on multiple false premises. 1) that every sailing is full. 2) That no one ever reduces the DSC. 3) That the DSC is paid directly to the crew as cash. 4) It is anyone else's business but NCLs and the crew's how the DSC is distributed. No one ever said that the entire DSC is handed directly to the crew as a cash tip. That may or may not happen. However the DSC going to the crew includes (as NCL puts it) " Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." Notice it does not say "The DSC is paid directly to the crew in cash", it says it is used to fund incentive programs. In the end I really do not care one iota how NCL distributes the DSC as incentive to the crew and it is none of my business. It is a huge non issue.

[jb456]

First off I do not know anyone named "u" so I cannot answer as to what that person thinks. Your entire argument is based on multiple false premises. 1) that every sailing is full. 2) That no one ever reduces the DSC. 3) That the DSC is paid directly to the crew as cash. 4) It is anyone else's business but NCLs and the crew's how the DSC is distributed. No one ever said that the entire DSC is handed directly to the crew as a cash tip. That may or may not happen. However the DSC going to the crew includes (as NCL puts it) " Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." Notice it does not say "The DSC is paid directly to the crew in cash", it says it is used to fund incentive programs. In the end I really do not care one iota how NCL distributes the DSC as incentive to the crew and it is none of my business. It is a huge non issue.

 

I said 1 7 day sail at max. I'm sure out of a year they sail one 7 day cruise at max.

 

Anyways so is it a tip or is it to pay for the crews incentive programs?? Cause that is two completely different things.

 

On top of that charge then they add 20% for the drink package for gratuities. I've seen 2 bar tenders at the same bar on the ship working together. One was horrible and the other was friendly. Do they deserve the same tip amount? I think not but again that's just me. Also if someone only drinks bottled beer do they really deserve like $1.40 tip to open a cap and slide it over the bar?

 

Dsc is a complete joke at least other cruise lines discount the amount for kids. As if a 3 year old should be charged the same as an adult.

[Love my butler]

So let's Say the Breakaway sailing one trip (7days) at full capacity. 3963 passengers.

 

We know some rooms pay higher gratuities but let's Say everyone pays $14.50.

 

We also know not all workers are part of the gratuities buts let's just say all 1657 workers are part of it.

 

3963 x 14.50 x 7 =$402,244.5

 

402,244.5 divided by 1657 =$242.75

 

So do u believe in a 7 day trip every worker gets a $242 tip??

 

Now not all workers are part of the dsc so that$242.75 can be much higher when you calculate the amount of workers that are apart of it plus all the rooms that pay $17.50 and not $14.50

 

I seriously doubt all that money goes to the workers but that's just me.

 

Correct. The math just does not add up. NCL is pocketing the Discretionary Service Charge and doling it out in dribs and drabs under some secret distribution system. The vague language NCL uses just reinforces the fact they don't want the truth out there about where the Discretionary Service Charge really goes. cough cough Into NCL's bank account..

 

Tipping a crew member directly with cash is the ONLY way you know they are actually getting a gratuity from you.

[newmexicoNita]

I’ve known since I was a young child that you tip workers in the service industry. I don’t believe there are any honeymooners, college kids etc. that don’t know we live in a culture that tips. And if traveling to another area of the world, you research what the customs are there. Including tipping.

I don’t think the cruise lines are exactly hiding the service charges. I know exactly how much my service charge will be before I book.

But I do my due diligence.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Know what you mean, even in the 1950s and still in highschool, wewoud go to the Newberry's dime stroe, sit at the soda fountain and would order a grilled cheese sandwich, a coke, and fries. We always made sure we had that extra dime for a tip.

[Texas_Holdem]

The vague language NCL uses just reinforces the fact they don't want the truth out there about where the Discretionary Service Charge really goes. cough cough Into NCL's bank account..

 

Tipping a crew member directly with cash is the ONLY way you know they are actually getting a gratuity from you.

 

Remember you can adjust the Discretionary Service Charge (DSC), up or down, by simply visiting the customer service desk. You do not need to provide a reason for your adjustment.

 

Love My Butler, have you been on NCL recently? There have been recent reports that they inquisition you, and will not remove the DSC if you tell them you prefer to tip staff members directly. There are several reviews on youtube and cruise critic that suggest that they will not allow you to fully adjust the DSC to a subjective amount but instead a percentage that the customer service staff member believes is justified based on your complaint.

[newmexicoNita]

Correct. The math just does not add up. NCL is pocketing the Discretionary Service Charge and doling it out in dribs and drabs under some secret distribution system. The vague language NCL uses just reinforces the fact they don't want the truth out there about where the Discretionary Service Charge really goes. cough cough Into NCL's bank account..

 

Tipping a crew member directly with cash is the ONLY way you know they are actually getting a gratuity from you.

and what about those behind the scenes? Ok, I agree we do not know where the DSC is really going but you know as well as I do, as a seasoned cruiser, if those we want to tip were not getting their fair share they would now stay with NCL year in and year out. We always get to know our cabin steward and some of the wait people, many have been with the company for a decade of more. They do not seem to be complaining. :rolleyes:

[erdoran]

Know what you mean, even in the 1950s and still in highschool, wewoud go to the Newberry's dime stroe, sit at the soda fountain and would order a grilled cheese sandwich, a coke, and fries. We always made sure we had that extra dime for a tip.

I think the difference is "how much to tip" and to who? For your $1 lunch in the 1950's you knew to tip at least 10% (now it's 20%) on that dollar. But when your cruise fare is $2500, that's $500 for 20% - who gets that $500? And in what proportion? Even given folks know it's a service industry and tipping is mandatory, even for crummy service (because on cruising it is, unfortunately, which in my mind makes it part of the cruise fare) then how in the world would a newbie know how to distribute that?

 

I do support DSC and was relieved to find it after 20 yrs of not cruising, I'm just of the mind that ALL cruise lines need to be up front with it and display it at booking time - so you know that the FINAL cost of that cruise is not $2500, but $3k, for example.

 

The knowledgeable cruiser isn't going to be offended by seeing it up front, the naive cruiser will get over their sticker shock and be able to make an informed decision as to whether they can afford the cruise, etc. Remember, not everyone books online either, so even if there is a ton of info available, it might not be read or seen.

 

There's a lot of IF YOU DON'T PAY DSC YOU'RE A BAD PERSON going around here. A "good" CC person advocates for DSC payment always no matter what. So - instead of being negative about uninformed people, let's advocate for that DSC (and extra tipping expectations for Haven - even my TA told me the DSC for Haven includes butler & concierge, which is WRONG) being displayed UP FRONT before booking, and the number on the TA's screen which they have to read to the pax, includes DSC and (for Haven) a MANDATORY statement about butler/concierge being excluded from the DSC pool.

 

I know, fantasyland....

[Cafedumonde]

Does anyone believe that 100% of the DSC goes to the crew?

 

Yes/no will suffice.

 

No. And the reason I say that is because they refuse to spell out where the money goes. The last restaurant where I worked, we tipped out a percentage to "management," which at the time I suspected wasn't legal, but who knows. Since cruise lines have even less labor restrictions, I have no doubt they are pocketing some of that money or paying "management" with some of it. I do believe that the little people and especially those who work very hard would be better off with tips coming directly from individuals and not from a dsc. That being said, we do always pay (prepay) the dsc. I would really prefer to tip my own waiters and stewards. It is not my responsibility to directly pay the salaries of everyone else on the ship. And it is a bit overwhelming to think this way, which is I think why NCL wants people to think this way. Like they are doing you a favor by "distributing" the dsc for you. I do not really think of the dsc as tipping but as part of the fare. We tip extra for those who really helped us or made our cruise special. That was originally what tipping was about. I wonder if eventually the dsc will be the same amount as the cruise fare since they seem to be using it to pay more and more people.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Cafedumonde

[Cafedumonde]

and what about those behind the scenes? Ok, I agree we do not know where the DSC is really going but you know as well as I do, as a seasoned cruiser, if those we want to tip were not getting their fair share they would now stay with NCL year in and year out. We always get to know our cabin steward and some of the wait people, many have been with the company for a decade of more. They do not seem to be complaining. :rolleyes:

 

For me the whole behind the scenes thing is something the cruise lines have put into people's minds to guilt them into paying more dsc. When you go to a hotel, do you worry about tipping "behind the scenes?" I just am not responsible for directly paying everyone on the ship's salary. What the cruise lines are doing is taking money that would have gone to your steward and waiters and giving it to other people to subsidize their salaries. It is a weird system, but obviously they think people like seeing the lower fare, when actually your fare includes the dsc.

[jb456]

Love My Butler, have you been on NCL recently? There have been recent reports that they inquisition you, and will not remove the DSC if you tell them you prefer to tip staff members directly. There are several reviews on youtube and cruise critic that suggest that they will not allow you to fully adjust the DSC to a subjective amount but instead a percentage that the customer service staff member believes is justified based on your complaint.

 

Guest ticket contract says "© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salaryand incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge ,which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, isintended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employeesaccording to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrieris also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

So how can NCL deny you from adjusting to zero? Since its at your discretion no reason has to be given.

 

NCL is sneaky and have all different things listed on their site and faq section. Their like a telemarketer lol. Use words like "fixed" "important one".

 

According to the Guest ticket contract. (The only one that people need to read). NCL tries hard to word it in a way where they are not saying the word "optional" but wording it in a way that still means "optional" but they use the word "subject to an adjustment". Just like a telemarketer using words that kind of mean the same to get you to buy. Wonder how long NCL Lawyers worked on that wording. lol.

 

One NCL webpage says "The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports"

Another says "Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile," so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them."

NCL ticket contract starts off by saying "certain crew members" then it ends with "is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories"

 

So is it all crew members? Some crew members? Whats the money for? Is it a tip or incentive program?

 

Ticket contact says "© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salaryand incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest.

 

No word of gratuities/tips. Says combination of their salary and incentive program.

 

Then it goes on to says "isintended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employeesaccording to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrieris also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs"

 

So basically all those hard working people never see that money. They get a portion depending on their job evaluation. Probably a quarterly evaluation and NCL takes some for "fleet wide crew welfare programs"

 

 

So the way I see it is,maybe all cruisers, even the ones that make sure they tell everyone that they tip above the dsc is getting screwed from NCLs gimmick thinking their hard working friend from the Philippines is going to get something good for all that hard work he did to make your trip great!!

[erdoran]

So it's just like my resort that we've stopped visiting-we've gone from direct tipping to a charge that's really mandatory (no matter what anyone says) and we are encouraged to tip IN ADDITION to the mandatory "tip".

 

I hated the envelopes, realized that tipping is a necessary evil (cruiselines, just like restaurants, have pushed the cost of payroll onto customers) so dealt with the DSC, but I have to say that I consider I have tipped IN FULL with the DSC, and I rarely (but not never) tip "above and beyond" because I'VE ALREADY TIPPED. Exception is of course Haven butler & concierge who don't get DSC. But from all the discussion, it really sounds like DSC is just the paycheck, and there IS an expectation to tip over and above.

[Trimone]

We book from the U.K. and all our DSC, drinks package plus gratitudes is already paid, if anyone impresses us we tip the last day

[Expat Cruise]

The cruise contract is clear, (US Contract) You can remove or adjust the service charge at your discretion. You do not need to explain your reasons or thinking, in fact no one on the ship has the right to question your choice. I would never allow any crew member to question me about my choices.

[SeaShark]

The cruise contract is clear, (US Contract) You can remove or adjust the service charge at your discretion. You do not need to explain your reasons or thinking, in fact no one on the ship has the right to question your choice. I would never allow any crew member to question me about my choices.

 

The contract is "clear"? How do you figure?

 

First, it says that you can adjust the service charge, it does NOT say that you can "remove" it. That is certainly NOT clear.

 

Second, it mentions nothing about not having to give a reason. Nothing in the contact "clearly" states that you are reason-free in your thinking. Nothing in the contact prevents them from requesting or requiring a reason.