NCL Cruise Service Charge Refund

[LMaxwell]

Good service; good money. Bad service; bad money. Great service; great money. If a crew member is negatively impacted because someone else gave bad service, that's the deal they all agreed to. If particular staffer continues getting complaints and negatively impacts earning potential of colleagues, the colleagues and management will coach the offender or they will be let go and someone better suited takes the role. It's not a great system, but it was designed by the company and the workers agree. I also feel guaranteed rates discourage exceptional service, but that's how it is. No one has to pay hard earned money for poor service, that's not what the company advertises. I don't think management needs to be involved in every situation of poor service; slow dining rooms, attendant did a poor job making up a room, etc. Speak to the service personnel first and convey your expectation and give them a chance to meet it. If failure is egregious, talk to manager. Not spending my whole vacation micromanaging poor service; give them a chance to correct and then let your money do the talking - it is a universal language.

[newmexicoNita]

People behind the scenes are paid appropriately in other industries and are not tipped.

 

The advocates of tip everyone-feel free to go to your hotel’s laundry room and hand out tips, and figure out all the other tipped dsc people and tip their counterparts off the ship.

 

What irks me is that tips were always for good service and appreciated. Now they are an entitlement in the cruise industry. And you do t dare remove any portion of dsc because of all the poor innocent people who will be affected. That makes it not a tip or gratuity but an additional fixed cost of the cruise.

 

Yes I pay my dsc. No flames. But I am entitled to my opinion.

of course you are entitled to your opinion. I don't think anyone is questioning this and I am entitled to mine. I will add just one more thing then think all that can be said has been said. Neither you or I have any clue exactly who is paid what and if, some of those behind the scene deserve extra gratuities. :rolleyes:

[erdoran]

Comes back to the age-old debate - should NCL pay behind the scenes people at the same level as those jobs in all other industries, so they are NOT tip-dependent? Again, do the "behind the scenes" people "DESERVE EXTRA GRATUITIES" in any other industry other than cruising? Is that an entitlement in other industries like it seems to be in cruising?

 

Waitstaff, bar staff, hotel maids, etc. are tipped routinely. Many who are included in NCL DSC are NOT.

[Wyoming2010]

Anyone want a truly great inside look at behind the scenes, what the crew goes through, etc., try this book -- it really opened our eyes:

 

Cruise Confidential: a Hit Below the Waterline: Where the Crew Lives, Eats, Wars and Parties -- One Crazy year Working on a cruise ship

 

by Brian David Bruns

 

He has three other follow up books, including one where he worked the auction part on cruise ships. Hilarious.

[erdoran]

Good service; good money. Bad service; bad money. Great service; great money. If a crew member is negatively impacted because someone else gave bad service, that's the deal they all agreed to. If particular staffer continues getting complaints and negatively impacts earning potential of colleagues, the colleagues and management will coach the offender or they will be let go and someone better suited takes the role. It's not a great system, but it was designed by the company and the workers agree. I also feel guaranteed rates discourage exceptional service, but that's how it is. No one has to pay hard earned money for poor service, that's not what the company advertises. I don't think management needs to be involved in every situation of poor service; slow dining rooms, attendant did a poor job making up a room, etc. Speak to the service personnel first and convey your expectation and give them a chance to meet it. If failure is egregious, talk to manager. Not spending my whole vacation micromanaging poor service; give them a chance to correct and then let your money do the talking - it is a universal language.

Part of my job is dealing with peoples' performance. I'm paid to do that. I go on vacation NOT to have to work, but to relax. I guess that's one of the reasons I get worked up about all of this tip/don't tip/DSC/service issues dialogue and drama. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING AT ALL WHILE I'M ON VACATION!

[newmexicoNita]

Comes back to the age-old debate - should NCL pay behind the scenes people at the same level as those jobs in all other industries, so they are NOT tip-dependent? Again, do the "behind the scenes" people "DESERVE EXTRA GRATUITIES" in any other industry other than cruising? Is that an entitlement in other industries like it seems to be in cruising?

 

Waitstaff, bar staff, hotel maids, etc. are tipped routinely. Many who are included in NCL DSC are NOT.

Just curious: isn't the DSC pretty much industry wide. Why are we simply always saying NCL this and that? I don't think all the griping in the world is going to change the policies one bit. :cool:

[erdoran]

Just curious: isn't the DSC pretty much industry wide. Why are we simply always saying NCL this and that? I don't think all the griping in the world is going to change the policies one bit. :cool:

Yes, you are 100% right. It IS cruise industry wide and NO, the griping isn't going to change anything. Just venting, and also defending the folks who get shamed for messing with DSC (regardless of cruise line) when they have a legit complaint.

[Maya1234]

Well the Guest Ticket Contract states that the DSC can be adjusted “ at your discretion “ whcich legally means “ for any reason or no reason at all” Flynt v. LFP, Inc., 245 F.Supp.2d 94, 104 (D.D.C.,2003). Legally an “adjustment” means any change in the price, including a refund after payment. Bunge Corp. v. Northern Trust Co., 252 Ill.App.3d 485, 501, 623 N.E.2d 785, 796, 191 Ill.Dec. 195, 206 (Ill.App. 4 Dist.,1993)

[KeithJenner]

Well the Guest Ticket Contract states that the DSC can be adjusted “ at your discretion “ whcich legally means “ for any reason or no reason at all” Flynt v. LFP, Inc., 245 F.Supp.2d 94, 104 (D.D.C.,2003). Legally an “adjustment” means any change in the price, including a refund after payment. Bunge Corp. v. Northern Trust Co., 252 Ill.App.3d 485, 501, 623 N.E.2d 785, 796, 191 Ill.Dec. 195, 206 (Ill.App. 4 Dist.,1993)

 

Alternatively, you can just calculate the total cost of the holiday, decide whether that is worth it for you and then just leave the legal books at home and concentrate on enjoying yourself.

 

I know which one sounds like most fun to me, and I don't need to look it up in a book. :)

[notalandlover]

Well the Guest Ticket Contract states that the DSC can be adjusted “ at your discretion “ whcich legally means “ for any reason or no reason at all” Flynt v. LFP, Inc., 245 F.Supp.2d 94, 104 (D.D.C.,2003). Legally an “adjustment” means any change in the price, including a refund after payment. Bunge Corp. v. Northern Trust Co., 252 Ill.App.3d 485, 501, 623 N.E.2d 785, 796, 191 Ill.Dec. 195, 206 (Ill.App. 4 Dist.,1993)

 

 

Does it mention that you must have a good reason such as poor service:confused::o etc

[Maya1234]

Does it mention that you must have a good reason such as poor service:confused::o etc

 

No. It does not. And because the contract specifically says that it supersedes all other statements by NCL you CAN remove your DSC for no reason at all . That does NOT mean that you SHOULD.

[SeaShark]

Well the Guest Ticket Contract states that the DSC can be adjusted “ at your discretion “ whcich legally means “ for any reason or no reason at all” Flynt v. LFP, Inc., 245 F.Supp.2d 94, 104 (D.D.C.,2003). Legally an “adjustment” means any change in the price, including a refund after payment. Bunge Corp. v. Northern Trust Co., 252 Ill.App.3d 485, 501, 623 N.E.2d 785, 796, 191 Ill.Dec. 195, 206 (Ill.App. 4 Dist.,1993)

 

Legally, discretion is the power of a judge, public official or a private party (under authority given by contract, trust or will) to make decisions on various matters based on his/her opinion within general legal guidelines.

 

I see you like to reference US Law. Are you certain that US Law is applicable here?

[notalandlover]

No. It does not. And because the contract specifically says that it supersedes all other statements by NCL you CAN remove your DSC for no reason at all . That does NOT mean that you SHOULD.[/quote]

 

 

I agree with that. I never remove my DSC but always say in the comment cards I hate them and want these charges tacked onto the cruise fair price like they do elsewhere in the world. That would ensure everyone paid it.

[Two Wheels Only]

I never remove my DSC but always say in the comment cards I hate them and want these charges tacked onto the cruise fair price like they do elsewhere in the world. That would ensure everyone paid it.

It would likely end up costing more than the current DSC which would lead to more (but different) complaints.

[Maya1234]

Legally, discretion is the power of a judge, public official or a private party (under authority given by contract, trust or will) to make decisions on various matters based on his/her opinion within general legal guidelines.

 

I see you like to reference US Law. Are you certain that US Law is applicable here?

 

The contract calls for arbitration of contract claims in Florida under NAM (National Arbitration and Mediation ) rules so US law would apply. Under the law of every state I’m aware of “ discretion” in a contract allows the private party to make a decision for any reason or no reason at all. This is especially true as here when you have a “ contract of adhesion” meaning that the contract is not negotiated but rather is presented as a given to a customer in a take it or leave it transaction. In such contracts the interpretation of any word must favor the customer.

[SeaShark]

The contract calls for arbitration of contract claims in Florida under NAM (National Arbitration and Mediation ) rules so US law would apply. Under the law of every state I’m aware of “ discretion” in a contract allows the private party to make a decision for any reason or no reason at all. This is especially true as here when you have a “ contract of adhesion” meaning that the contract is not negotiated but rather is presented as a given to a customer in a take it or leave it transaction. In such contracts the interpretation of any word must favor the customer.

No...the arbitrator would have to adhere to the applicable law as stated in the contract.

[Maya1234]

No...the arbitrator would have to adhere to the applicable law as stated in the contract.

 

I don’t know what you mean. There is no specific choice of law stated in the contract. This means that arbitrators in the US under NAM rules would apply US Law, Which states law would depend on a variety of factors . But the law in pretty much every state is that a contract of adhesion requires the judge or arbitrator to interpret a contract in a way that favors the customer. This would arise if there was more than one reasonable way to interpret the contract. So since many courts have held that a reasonable interpretation of “ discretion” means “any reason or no reason” that’s the interpretation that would be used, even if there could be another reasonable interpretation of the term.

[Gampy1967]

I think it is pretty clear that you can reduce the DSC for most any reason, not saying that you should. I would never reduce it unless a service issue was reported and not resolved. Has anyone ever had an instance where they were NOT allowed to reduce their DSC? I don't recall any stories on here of it happening (other than when they tried a month after the cruise ended) so while it may not be easy to do, it is pretty clear it is allowed for most any reason.

[Maya1234]

I think it is pretty clear that you can reduce the DSC for most any reason, not saying that you should. I would never reduce it unless a service issue was reported and not resolved. Has anyone ever had an instance where they were NOT allowed to reduce their DSC? I don't recall any stories on here of it happening (other than when they tried a month after the cruise ended) so while it may not be easy to do, it is pretty clear it is allowed for most any reason.

 

What’s not clear to me is when you can reduce it. From what I understand it used to be that you had to reduce on board. But now you can only reduce after. Is that correct? And if after does NCL state how long you have to do so?

[erdoran]

It would likely end up costing more than the current DSC which would lead to more (but different) complaints.

Surprisingly enough, I don't advocate for that. Personal experience - may have already posted it - DH and I used to love a resort in the Poconos. In addition to inflated room cost, there was an 18% (raised to 20% after a few years) autograt on the entire hotel bill, much more $$$$$ than DSC. That 20% was clearly called 'GRATUITY' and we were told at booking time no need to tip any more (other than $ drinks of course).

 

Fast forward several years - the 20% is still on the bill, as is a $27.50/day resort fee - but now it's a SERVICE CHARGE, NOT a gratuity, and it's taxed. I asked if this service charge was a tip, and was clearly told "Not a tip, and be sure to tip the dining room staff".

 

Moral - you do NOT want the DSC added to the base fare and made mandatory, because what will happen is soon or later a beancounter will get the idea that people expect to tip on cruises, so let's keep the DSC and go back to the envelopes!!

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

SeaShark v. Maya1234. LOL! Will we need popcorn? Haven't had it for a while. I know who I am betting on.

 

We were on a ship tour once and the head chef, in front of the whole tour group, said something so rude to me, it made me want to go running to my cabin crying. You could see it in the other peoples faces that they were surprised by it also. One of them even said something to me. My husband and I tried to finish the tour with dignity, although it was quite hard. The next day I filled out one of the cards at the desk explaining what had happened. Almost immediately I got a call from the person in charge of the restaurants. He apologized beyond belief, gave us multiple free specialty dining coupons, and daily chocolate strawberries in our cabin (13 day cruise). Never once did we think about reducing or removing the service charge. It's just not what we do.

[NLH Arizona]

 

Moral - you do NOT want the DSC added to the base fare and made mandatory, because what will happen is soon or later a beancounter will get the idea that people expect to tip on cruises, so let's keep the DSC and go back to the envelopes!!

I don't think they will ever go back to the old days of envelopes, but I think if the cruise lines added the DSC/automatic gratuities to the fare, the crew will end up being the winners. Why, because many people will continue to tip, even if the cruise line says "tipping not necessary". The losers will obviously be those that currently remove the DSC, because they just don't want to pay it and I bet they will complain loudly that their fares have gone up.

[Gampy1967]

What’s not clear to me is when you can reduce it. From what I understand it used to be that you had to reduce on board. But now you can only reduce after. Is that correct? And if after does NCL state how long you have to do so?

 

No idea as I have not been on a cruise in a while and I would never even consider reducing it unless there was a service issue that did not get corrected. My room is not cleaned and I complain and they never come clean it, or I have a leaking sink that they never repair after I report it to them, then I am lowering the DSC. My waiter does not bring my next course as soon as I like, not going to do a thing about it as it does not warrant, in my opinion, any kind of reduction in the DSC for a itty bitty inconvenience like that.

 

Here is one that will get people fired up. I am paying a nice piece of change to stay in an OS coming up in March. If anyone is smoking on their balconies close to mine where I can't enjoy my own balcony, I complain to the staff, and nothing is done about the smoking (with is not allowed), I am lowering the hell out of my DSC and perhaps removing the entire thing.

[Two Wheels Only]

We were on a ship tour once and the head chef, in front of the whole tour group, said something so rude to me, it made me want to go running to my cabin crying.

 

Now, we're all wondering what the chef said. :confused:

.

[Gampy1967]

Now, we're all wondering what the chef said. :confused:

.

 

"No more buffet for you. You have been here 4 hrs. You go home now." I forget which comedian did that joke.