Out of all the cut backs over the years, what is the one thing ...

[sail7seas]

So reading back a few posts...

 

I haven't been on a cruise without a yum yum man yet (last one was April - May 2017). Now we were in fixed dining, not sure if they are there in open dining, but our yum man made fixed dining so worth it. Origami galor.

 

As to suite issues, I still saw a suite reception on my last cruise but no luncheon (have never seen a dinner). MIssed having a luncheon :( but that is not an issue for most posters on this board ;)

 

Some things do remain on HAL but if they keep losing the little touches like cruise logs and so many other things that others mention, they will lose the specialness (is that a word?) that makes them HAL.

 

When did yous tart sailing HAL? I think the Suite dinners I reference ended around 2,02 or so. I DO not remember the exact year but t it has been a long time. They were really nice. We never bothered with suite lunch. DH preferrred to stay at the pool . He favored his pool time over showering and dressing for lunch.

[iancal]

People say they are willing to pay more but the reality is that this is just not so. Well, perhaps a small minority are-very small. The airlines found this out years ago.

 

My thought is you are either in the mass market business or the niche business. Trying to saddle both is seldom successful. For a start your marketing endeavours are fraught with errors/contradictions and at the end of the day customers have lost the plot on what you want to be when 'you grow up'. HAL seems to be firmly stuck in this rut. The constant re-work of their on board entertainment programs, their reluctance to initiate smoking policies that their competitors and most other vendors in the travel industry accepted/adopted years ago, and their failure to change or really enhance a loyalty reward program that is aimed more at stroking egos of long time customers than it is at providing real benefits that entice future customer loyalty.

 

Cruise lines are like department stores. You cannot depend on the goodwill and custom of the past two generations and their offspring to see you through the new business environment. Our children do not shop for anything the way we do or the way we used to. Nor are the loyal to any one vendor-the loyalty is based on their last experience. We are waiting anxiously to see what comes out when the music stops and HAL has transformed itself.

[kohl57]

Well it's all very interesting I must say. Holland America Line has, as its president, a man who apparently doesn't even like cruise vacations.. and never took one until he joined the company. And hasn't been back, either. It's like a blind man running an art gallery.

[shrimp56]

The changes in the Crow's Nest offend me. Do they expect the EXC spaces to make them more money than the bar? Plus it was the best view on board.

[RuthC]

It's like a blind man running an art gallery.

Great comparison.

[sail7seas]

Oh I had forgotten the live music in the dining room. I know that the cruise line has been sold and are no longer Dutch owned, but I still miss the lady in traditional Dutch wear that greeted you with actual tulips and the Dutch cheese and cookies sold in the gift shops. I miss the horse races and the interaction between the passengers. I really miss getting to know your fellow passengers on the longer cruises especially. I guess I'm just showing my age.

 

 

Bev, Carnival Corporation bought HAL in l988. A Long time ago. :)

[Aquahound]

My thought is you are either in the mass market business or the niche business. Trying to saddle both is seldom successful. For a start your marketing endeavours are fraught with errors/contradictions and at the end of the day customers have lost the plot on what you want to be when 'you grow up'. HAL seems to be firmly stuck in this rut.

 

Great post. I totally agree. I'm about to embark on my 4th HAL cruise and the truth is, the main reason I'm even at #4 is because my HAL cruises have been the cheapest cruises I've booked. It blows my mind that I was able to book a balcony room on a line's newest ship for only $86/night.

[Sage]

Sail I know, but I was sailing with them in 1980, and still have photos and memories of those days. I also miss the crew shows. They were wonderful. I keep coming back to HAL I guess because I'm comfortable with the cabin size, the service and the elegance of the older ships. Sadly Crystal, my favorite cruise line is rather expensive to take family on even though it is now all inclusive.

[peug]

Sad. But somehow reassuring, too. My last cruise with Holland America Line was in December 2011 aboard NIEUW AMSTERDAM after one in Rotterdam (V), two in MAASDAM,one in EURODAM and another in NA. I read every "innovation", every "improvement" and came to the conclusion that HAL really did want me or my business. Why? Because they seemed intent on removing everything that I liked in the first place. The general feeling, especially from this Orlando Ashford, is "It would be ever so nice if you weren't here". I got the message. And since 2011, my wife and I have immensely enjoyed many cruises with Oceania and recently had a wonderful return to Cunard (QUEEN ELIZABETH) and booked her again for next year. Cunard, at least, is a bastion of traditional cruising the way many still prefer it.

 

What's missing from Holland America Line: ME

 

I'm going to have to try Cunard. We are also missing from HAL now

[Sea girl 23]

Granted I haven't been on as many HAL cruises as some(6 in 10 years)but I've noticed some slippage,especially with desserts.On my last cruise I ordered a cheesecake sort of thing and was very disappointed.

[sail7seas]

Sail I know, but I was sailing with them in 1980, and still have photos and memories of those days. I also miss the crew shows. They were wonderful. I keep coming back to HAL I guess because I'm comfortable with the cabin size, the service and the elegance of the older ships. Sadly Crystal, my favorite cruise line is rather expensive to take family on even though it is now all inclusive.

 

 

We used to really like the crew shows but perhaps they ended when crew numbers decreased. they used to rehearse late at night after a full days work and with fewer c rew it probab ly got too hard for them. A shame.. We lovrd when there were high numbers of stewards in mDR and sttewards had a chance to chat with their guests. We thought it wonderful getting to know so mny of them.

 

Another nice tradition that is long gone are the beautitiful menu coversDining Stewards used to collect a full set for all the ladies, sign and date one of the covers and give them to guests on the last night of the cruise. I still have a number of them.

 

Who remembers the Dutch hats the stewards and bartenders used to paint with lovely designs for us/ They are among my favorite HAL treasures and I wish I could tell some of the crew from ' those days' how much pleasure those pretty hats. brought us. Some were ttruly beautiful and worth framing.

[navybankerteacher]

Reading all of this, I appreciate just how much has been "purged" from HAL and replaced by... well by what exactly? What I've seen of HAL under this new "management" is an effort to "ethnically cleanse" the line of past passengers and traditional cruisers in favour of some mythical hip Millennial market. Even the new decor is right out of IKEA. I work in an office with almost nothing but Millennials who a) don't take traditional "vacations" and b) wouldn't be caught dead on a cruise of any description. So whatever HAL is aspiring for... good luck to them.

 

Holland America Line is like the guy in his late 50s experiencing late middle age crisis trying to squeeze into a pair of skinny H&M jeans and wearing lycra in hopes of snagging some 25-year-old girlfriend. It's the MAMIL (Middle Age Male in Lycra) of cruise lines. And it's not a pretty sight.

 

Sad. But I am just amazed so many people still go on it... it sounds like an abusive relationship, enduring one cut-back after another yet still going back for... less.

 

What you seem to not understand is the fact that, for many of us, HAL still offers more of what we want than do other comparably priced lines.

 

Sure, they are not what they once were -- nor, for that matter, are Celebrity, Princess, Royal Caribbean or even Cunard (which has maintained more of what used to make cruising special - but which has also devolved--- in spite of significantly higher prices). NCL, of course, has taken an uncatchable lead in the race to the bottom.

 

Yes, things have gone down hill - but all things considered, HAL remains somewhat higher on the slope than the others.

[sail7seas]

What you seem to not understand is the fact that, for many of us, HAL still offers more of what we want than do other comparably priced lines.

 

Sure, they are not what they once were -- nor, for that matter, are Celebrity, Princess, Royal Caribbean or even Cunard (which has maintained more of what used to make cruising special - but which has also devolved--- in spite of significantly higher prices). NCL, of course, has taken an uncatchable lead in the race to the bottom.

 

Yes, things have gone down hill - but all things considered, HAL remains somewhat higher on the slope than the others.

 

 

IMO, HAL no longer wishes for us long time loyal mariners to return, even if we bring our adult children and their young children. they do not want to be reminded of their proud history. It seems they no longer respect and are proud of their wonderful history. Evidenced, iMO, by their change from the wonderul fomer HAL logo. They do not want to be reminded who they used to be. How many at the 'top' of their 'chain of c ommand' even know who they used to be?

 

They surely want young c ruisers and I doubt any here would argue the wiisdom of that bu t they also are so entrenched in searching for every penny they can get as on board spending (again, we understand that is where their profit grows from) BUT, to stress the 'need for' 'guests' to go to the spa, or aHywhere they can spend money, , buy photos and, drink and gamble heavily is not the way to to encouraging young families. The 'message I hear from HAL these days is: we don't care how much you spend for your cabin. We care far more how many drinks you b uy, how much you gamblle. The concept of much inclusive seems to be missing from HAL's current direction. The effort to provide, fun and memorable cruises is lacking. had this been the product when we sitarted crusing, we would not ug have sailed as much as we dd. tHey are not enttertaining enough, fun enough They are not bring guets together in th e ways they used tol , iMO to encourage guests to return trhe way they used. to. they don'tt seem to care if we leave happily pleased or not. So much seems to be perfunctory with little eagerness from the crew in the way they used to interactThe horible experience we had in Pinnacle with an ill trained, rude manager is far from 'excellence' Am I hearing their message wrong?

Edited October 11, 2017 by sail7seas

[Sea girl 23]

HAL can't be everything to everyone: something that no doubt has been said more than once.

 

That being said..I'm younger and have no interest in the spa, etc. Yes, it's(one of)the ways HAL makes money but I spend my money(minimally) on the casino and on drinks(like one a day or every other day!)

[Old As Dirt Mom]

............. And I'm surprised that nobody has asked the other big question yet--how much more would you pay to have these items returned?

 

It's the way the cruise industry is going. Competition for passengers on the mass-market lines is driving prices down, so cuts must be made. I've come to accept this. We sail only HAL and Cunard. Many aspects of the two lines are similar. Where Cunard outshines HAL is in many of the things listed on this thread. Excellent libraries, daytime activities that include real enrichment lectures, many choices of entertainment (including during the day), real formal nights, real captain's parties not just a toast during the first show in the showroom). However, I pay more on Cunard than I do on HAL.

 

........... Sadly Crystal, my favorite cruise line is rather expensive to take family on even though it is now all inclusive.

 

These two quotes from the above posters sums it up: You now have to pay more for the upscale experience that includes all the nice touches that were prevalent in the past on HAL.

[fsdj1097]

We used to really like the crew shows but perhaps they ended when crew numbers decreased. they used to rehearse late at night after a full days work and with fewer c rew it probab ly got too hard for them. A shame.. We lovrd when there were high numbers of stewards in mDR and sttewards had a chance to chat with their guests. We thought it wonderful getting to know so mny of them.

 

Another nice tradition that is long gone are the beautitiful menu coversDining Stewards used to collect a full set for all the ladies, sign and date one of the covers and give them to guests on the last night of the cruise. I still have a number of them.

 

Who remembers the Dutch hats the stewards and bartenders used to paint with lovely designs for us/ They are among my favorite HAL treasures and I wish I could tell some of the crew from ' those days' how much pleasure those pretty hats. brought us. Some were ttruly beautiful and worth framing.

 

DW and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary with our first HAL cruise aboard Veendam. We both received hand painted Dutch hats from a thoughtful bartender commemorating our first cruise. We still have those treasures and cherish them.

 

That was 20 years ago and we still love HAL and all the memories that we've created and shared with other family members.

 

Thanks for reminding me Sail!

[sail7seas]

when you start sailing HAL? I think the Suite dinners I reference ended around 2' date='02 or so. I DO not remember the exact year but t it has been a long time. They were really nice. We never bothered with suite lunch. DH preferrred to stay at the pool . He favored his pool time over showering and dressing for lunch.[/quote']

 

Kazu

When did you start sailing HAL?

The Suite dinners were usually held in Marco Polo and Odyssey restuarant but you may not reemember those restaurantrs which were so good That may have ben before you came to HAL? They w ere only on the "R" c lass ships. On the "S" class ships, Suite dinner was held inone of the conference roomswhere they set up with tables(The Hudson room) . NIce dinners.. Marco Polo and Oddyssey were foreerunner ro Pinnale and were on Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Volendam and Zandam..

[kazu]

Kazu

When did you start sailing HAL?

The Suite dinners were usually held in Marco Polo and Odyssey restuarant but you may not reemember those restaurantrs which were so good That may have ben before you came to HAL? They w ere only on the "R" c lass ships. On the "S" class ships, Suite dinner was held inone of the conference roomswhere they set up with tables(The Hudson room) . NIce dinners.. Marco Polo and Oddyssey were foreerunner ro Pinnale and were on Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Volendam and Zandam..

 

Started sailing HAL in the 1980's Sail.

 

Was on the old N Amsterdam and the Rotterdam back then in the 80's if my memory serves.

Edited October 11, 2017 by kazu

[navybankerteacher]

IMO, HAL no longer wishes for us long time loyal mariners to return, even if we bring our adult children and their young children. they do not want to be reminded of their proud history. It seems they no longer respect and are proud of their wonderful history. Evidenced, iMO, by their change from the wonderul fomer HAL logo. They do not want to be reminded who they used to be. How many at the 'top' of their 'chain of c ommand' even know who they used to be?

 

They surely want young c ruisers and I doubt any here would argue the wiisdom of that bu t they also are so entrenched in searching for every penny they can get as on board spending (again, we understand that is where their profit grows from) BUT, to stress the 'need for' 'guests' to go to the spa, or aHywhere they can spend money, , buy photos and, drink and gamble heavily is not the way to to encouraging young families. The 'message I hear from HAL these days is: we don't care how much you spend for your cabin. We care far more how many drinks you b uy, how much you gamblle. The concept of much inclusive seems to be missing from HAL's current direction. The effort to provide, fun and memorable cruises is lacking. had this been the product when we sitarted crusing, we would not ug have sailed as much as we dd. tHey are not enttertaining enough, fun enough They are not bring guets together in th e ways they used tol , iMO to encourage guests to return trhe way they used. to. they don'tt seem to care if we leave happily pleased or not. So much seems to be perfunctory with little eagerness from the crew in the way they used to interactThe horible experience we had in Pinnacle with an ill trained, rude manager is far from 'excellence' Am I hearing their message wrong?

 

All good points --- but is there a comparably priced line you prefer to HAL? To rephrase and old economics cliche: a falling tide lowers all boats.

[haladdict]

Yes we have lost a lot, but I still love Hal. I would throw things into a suitcase and head for the port now. The others lines are slipping too [even Cunard ].

I think that we are all lucky to be able to Cruise.

Sandra

[Sage]

I'm sorry Sail and everyone; I meant to say that I was sailing in the early 1980s instead of 1980. Sail I had forgotten about the Marco Polo and Odyssey restaurants, and they were free. I agree the suite dinners were free, and you usually got an officer to join you at the table. Jim made a wonderful friend of the Chief Electrician when they discovered they both loved scanning photos. Jim had to come home and buy the same scanner. I also apologize in that at times my memory isn't as sharp at times; I guess it is either old age or still grief getting in my way. Thank you.

[esimon]

more staff

When people all knew how to dress nicely before the cocktail hour and dinner.

[sail7seas]

Started sailing HAL in the 1980's Sail.

 

Was on the old N Amsterdam and the Rotterdam back then in the 80's if my memory serves.

 

 

Well, then, it is surprising you do not remember the Suite dinners. They were held every cruise .

 

Our first HAL cruise was on the 'old' Noordam, sister to the 'old' Nieuw Amsterdam. I might be mistaken but I think they might stitll be dsiling for Thompson, i do not recall the names they were changed to.

 

Do you remember MARCO Polo and Odyssey restaurants?

Edited October 11, 2017 by sail7seas

[sassy~one]

Thank you everyone! I forgot about the Yum Yum Man, the dutch hats, the tea, and all the other changes i have seen being posted. I have not been on HAL for a while.

So are there still cloth towels in the bathrooms?

Someone wrote about a room service charge, how does that work? Is it every order? What about coffee in the am?

thanks again.

[innlady1]

Well, then, it is surprising you do not remember the Suite dinners. They were held every cruise .

 

Our first HAL cruise was on the 'old' Noordam, sister to the 'old' Nieuw Amsterdam. I might be mistaken but I think they might stitll be dsiling for Thompson, i do not recall the names they were changed to.

 

Do you remember MARCO Polo and Odyssey restaurants?

 

 

 

People don't always cruise in the same category stateroom. I know that we've cruised in Insides, OV, Verandah and Suites. Plenty of people switch it up.

 

Unless I had kept a running list, I would have forgotten many of the things mentioned here.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited October 11, 2017 by innlady1