Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[pully8]

Concerned to read an account from an Australian passenger on AMA Venita who said they were NOT informed prior to the cruise about the changes and disappointed not to be seeing Germany as planned and being misinformed by staff prior to departure.

We contacted our TA today and were told APT are saying the water levels are improving!!

Not sure where they are getting their information or who is responsible for dissemination of travel updates? 

 

[notamermaid]

pully8,

 

it is a very tricky situation for APT and not only for them, of course. I would say they are neither wrong nor right. A river cruise starting in Amsterdam today will likely not go beyond Boppard in a few days time. A cruise starting in Budapest on Thursday is a different kettle of fish. It depends on how you look at it. Weather experts say it will stay dry. Water experts say the rivers will stay low. They are right as they see the wider picture. For barge traffic the critical situation will continue. For river cruise companies a little rain and a little rise is sufficient to call the situation "improving".

 

On a personal note I may add that for customers who travel a far distance to get to a port I find the information potentially raising expectations in a degree that I regard as too much as I can see the river and how it looks. However, final decision on what Ama can do I am not going to argue with. It will be down to satisfied or dissatisfied customers to utter their opinion.

It appears that I am a bit more sceptical about the situation than Ama.

 

All my admiration goes to the captains who face the daily changing conditions. They know best.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by notamermaid
Spelling

[pully8]

I think you chose the correct word to describe the current situation, tricky.

There was a large trade cruise conference in Paris over the weekend. It was interesting to follow various posts of proceedings on twitter and other social media.

Projected growth in the industry and sales targets for agents and new trends and opportunities.

Customers/guests are prepared to pay for premium service, if not delivered they are unlikely to be satisfied.

Communication is important, it is troubling to read some of the accounts people are experiencing. Telling people the water levels are improving, when evidence suggests otherwise only serves to reduce credibility, and would be comical if not serious.

Luckily its nearly the end of the season for cruising but locals are left with the current situation until it improves, which it will with time.

 

  

[ganski]

We just returned Friday , started on the Viking Eir in Amsterdam and finished on the Mani in Basel. Overall Viking did an excellent job with the low water situation, we were on the Eir until the Marksburg Castle, the we hopped on a bus for 45 minutes and took a smaller ship through the Rhine Gorge, they handed us a beer when we stepped on the boat and had lunch too , the weather was perfect and we saw all the castles . When we got off we took a bus to Strasbourg , this was a 2 hour bus trip, most slept on the bus and we arrived for a 7 PM dinner, we stayed in Strasbourg 2 nights, the next day was a 11/2 hour bus ride to Heidelberg and Viking provided lunch at a restaurant. The next day we toured Strasbourg and walked into Khel for a beer before going back on the ship. We missed Koblenz and Rudesheim , other than that it was an excellent cruise and vacation. There was minimal bus riding and plenty of cruising on the Rhine.    

[Mark_T]

The problem for a number of the Australians on board is that they left home two, three or even more weeks before the scheduled departure to spend more time in Europe before the cruise.

 

Some of those people will have talked to APT at that time, and back then they were doing ship swaps around Regensberg and limited coaches to reach a couple of places that they didn’t sail to.

 

After that it all changed when the Rhine Gorge fell too low and ship swaps were no longer possible. Not all of those were able to be contacted with the new information, so some arrived on board expecting to be in Germany with maybe a couple of coach trips and didn’t know about the revised Netherlands/ Belgium itinerary.

 

Regarding the next cruise, it will be on AmaVenita as they are now using just one ship for both directions, so where we end up determines exactly what happens next...

 

If we only do the revised itinerary then the ship will end up in Amsterdam and the people on the next cruise will stay in a hotel in Budapest then transfer to a hotel in Vienna for a total of around 3 or 4 nights then will be flown to Amsterdam to do the same modified itinerary as we are doing. 

 

On on the other hand if we do by some miracle manage to get through the Rhine Gorge at some point then that will change and the next cruise will still begin with hotels in Budapest and Vienna, but then will transfer to the ship wherever we ended up and will then have a different modified itinerary if the Rhine Gorge is not still open. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Mark_T

[notamermaid]

36 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

The problem for a number of the Australians on board is that they left home two, three or even more weeks before the scheduled departure to spend more time in Europe before the cruise.

 

Some of those people will have talked to APT at that time, and back then they were doing ship swaps around Regensberg and limited coaches to reach a couple of places that they didn’t sail to.

 

After that it all changed when the Rhine Gorge fell too low and ship swaps were no longer possible. Not all of those were able to be contacted with the new information, so some arrived on board expecting to be in Germany with maybe a couple of coach trips and didn’t know about the revised Netherlands/ Belgium itinerary.

 

...

Thank you for pointing that out. Such a scenario is very much possible. I do wonder, does it have to be? I think not... In this day and age communication is relatively easy to accomplish and a river cruiser should not be left in the dark, even if he is already in Europe and will not be able to decide on not boarding a plane.

 

41 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Regarding the next cruise, it will be on AmaVenita as they are now using just one ship for both directions, so where we end up determines exactly what happens next...

 

If we only do the revised itinerary then the ship will end up in Amsterdam and the people on the next cruise will stay in a hotel in Budapest then transfer to a hotel in Vienna for a total of around 3 or 4 nights then will be flown to Amsterdam to do the same modified itinerary as we are doing. 

 

On on the other hand if we do by some miracle manage to get through the Rhine Gorge at some point then that will change and the next cruise will still begin with hotels in Budapest and Vienna, but then will transfer to the ship wherever we ended up and will then have a different modified itinerary if the Rhine Gorge is not still open. 

Interesting, not a ship swap then. I hope you get very far, alas, as you know, it is tight.

 

notamermaid

 

[hbr777]

I think they are very deliberately leaving people in the dark. Since river levels change frequently, they don't want people canceling out of fear. Then they will switch up the itinerary at the last minute so they can keep your money. AMA for example makes it very clear on its website. It seems to have no problem substituting a classic Rhine Christmas market cruise for a some meandering around the flat non-Christmas market areas of Benelux. Given that option, I am most likely canceling, no offense to those who choose to take it. 

 

These companies know the situation well. They are choosing to not inform passengers until they absolutely have to. Until people are stuck and have no other choice but to take the "cruise" which hopefully is actually on the water, and not on a highway.

Edited November 12, 2018 by hbr777

[notamermaid]

O.k., this morning we are a little better off than yesterday. By that, I mean Kaub gauge is fluctuating at a higher level than yesterday. The river levels as of 3pm local time: Maxau 344cm, Kaub 45cm, Koblenz 55cm. Rain is coming later in the day and through the night. Tomorrow the clouds will be much reduced going East and not much rain will get to the Danube. Temperatures will go down over the next few days and still virtually no rain is forecast for four days. I am afraid the centimetres we will gain over two days could easily be lost again in the following four days.

 

For those interested in genealogy and local history here is a slightly unusual, "comparative" article of the Rhine with "Over-the-Rhine" in Cincinnati: https://eu.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/11/06/over-rhines-cincinnati-namesake-drying-up-rhine-river-germany/1893378002/

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

20 minutes ago, hbr777 said:

I think they are very deliberately leaving people in the dark. Since river levels change frequently, they don't want people canceling out of fear. Then they will switch up the itinerary at the last minute so they can keep your money. AMA for example makes it very clear on its website. It seems to have no problem substituting a classic Rhine Christmas market cruise for a some meandering around the flat non-Christmas market areas of Benelux. Given that option, I am most likely canceling, no offense to those who choose to take it. 

 

These companies know the situation well. They are choosing to not inform passengers until they absolutely have to. Until people are stuck and have no other choice but to take the "cruise" which hopefully is actually on the water, and not on a highway.

Interesting. I can see their point. And I can see yours. Some people will be happy with a holiday that is on the river they chose and it does not matter which towns they see. Others will have seen the Netherlands for example and will not be happy with it, for them it is "the holiday they booked or no holiday" and prefer to cancel.

 

As you mentioned before - and I agree - the Christmas market holiday you booked they may not be able to provide and an adequate alternative is not available in the Netherlands amended itinerary that has been posted by past cruisers. I could accept a different itinerary in October, in December I would not be willing to and would prefer the option of being able to cancel. With full cruise money paid back, not part payment with future cruise credit or the like. I am trying to see this from an overseas customer point of view. For myself different options apply as under EU consumer rights law I am protected differently and the terms and conditions of my river cruise would differ.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by notamermaid

[Mark_T]

16 minutes ago, hbr777 said:

These companies know the situation well. They are choosing to not inform passengers until they absolutely have to. Until people are stuck and have no other choice but to take the "cruise" which hopefully is actually on the water...

 

I think the key word there is ‘inform...’ more than a week out I am not sure there is very much information they honestly can give. Certainly they can’t state what will or will not be possible, so I have to commend lines like APT for giving people the option to cancel or to continue on an alternate itinerary. 

 

If lines are not giving people the option to cancel then I agree, that is wrong. 

 

[bubbulz]

4 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

 

I think the key word there is ‘inform...’ more than a week out I am not sure there is very much information they honestly can give. Certainly they can’t state what will or will not be possible, so I have to commend lines like APT for giving people the option to cancel or to continue on an alternate itinerary. 

 

If lines are not giving people the option to cancel then I agree, that is wrong. 

 

I think that cruise lines that fail to inform customers in a timely manner about the true breadth of possible interruptions in their original itinerary will be judged very harshly after this season. Many cruisers have invested a significant amount in their trips (both in terms of money and time) and would/could take advantage of 'cancel for any reason' clauses in their trip insurance policies. It's all about communication and from what I've seen here, most of the cruise line companies are failing miserably.

Edited November 12, 2018 by bubbulz

[B&BCruiseFool]

59 minutes ago, ganski said:

We missed Koblenz and Rudesheim , other than that it was an excellent cruise and vacation. There was minimal bus riding and plenty of cruising on the Rhine.

 

We just returned yesterday from the same trip after our Basel extension. Your summation of the itinerary is right on however my conclusion differs. The onboard staff of both ships was excellent and, for the most part, they worked very hard to keep the guests appeased. Our cruise director was in a precarious position of providing information while remaining upbeat. There were daily updates keeping us abreast of the next day's developments but ultimately sharing little beyond that. In other words, I spoke to many guests who had no idea of impeding bus trips until the daily report from the CD. A few indicated they would have canceled had they known.

 

Obviously it is impossible to predict long-term operating conditions with the weather and river levels in constant flux and, as stated, the staff did a great job minimizing the logistical effects of the dreaded "ship swap". But the Viking "front office" certainly anticipated the bus rides and modifications to the itinerary. In my opinion, they dropped the ball by not being more forth coming before embarkation. We called several times leading up to our departure and were very close to cancelling. They could easily provide possible modified itineraries, complete with bus information, as they have apparently been dealing with the situation for weeks if not months.

 

If you are departing soon for a similar cruise, consider this. If you are simply looking for a fun experience where you meet interesting people in an entertaining environment, go for it. This was our experience. If you want a relaxing cruise on the river with majestic views and little hassle, I recommend you do more research so you know what to expect. As noted in ganski's post, we spent a total of roughly 8 hours busing around the low points of the river over two days. Although much of the cruising is at night, there are 8 hours we cannot get back.

 

In short, we chose not to cancel and in hindsight we are glad we did not. Any frustration we have is with the Viking front office with kudos to the onboard staff.

 

[hbr777]

17 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Interesting. I can see their point. And I can see yours. Some people will be happy with a holiday that is on the river they chose and it does not matter which towns they see. Others will have seen the Netherlands for example and will not be happy with it, for them it is "the holiday they booked or no holiday" and prefer to cancel.

 

As you mentioned before - and I agree - the Christmas market holiday you booked they may not be able to provide and an adequate alternative is not available in the Netherlands amended itinerary that has been posted by past cruisers. I could accept a different itinerary in October, in December I would not be willing to and would prefer the option of being able to cancel. With full cruise money paid back, not part payment with future cruise credit or the like. I am trying to see this from an overseas customer point of view. For myself different options apply as under EU consumer rights law I am protected differently and the terms and conditions of my river cruise would differ.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

I see both sides too. And yes, I would accept the Benelux itinerary, but not in December. Christmas markets are themed cruises. For me it would be like taking a wine-themed cruise and then being told on boarding, whoops we have no wine lol

[gadugger]

Below is the notice AMA has now put on their website re their California toll free line. It appears that you may have trouble even reaching them by phone much less getting a straight answer.

 

Important Notice

IMPORTANT NOTICE: OFFICE OPENS MONDAY NOV. 12TH

While mandatory evacuations are still in effect in Calabasas, CA and the surrounding areas due to the Woolsey Fire, AmaWaterways will open for business beginning on Monday, November 12th. We will be operating out of a satellite office, and therefore, will only offer limited services until we can regain safe access to our Calabasas headquarters and return to normal business operations.

We will do our best to service all requests, prioritizing inquires relating to 2018 departures as well as deposits for existing booking options. We greatly appreciate your patience and thank you in advance for your understanding.

Travel Advisors may now access our Online Booking System 24 hours a day via our website's Travel Agent Portal.

Please note our business hours for this week:

Monday, Nov. 12 – 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. PST
Tuesday, Nov. 13 through Friday, Nov. 16 – 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. PST
Saturday, Nov. 17 – 7:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. PST

Toll Free: 1.800.626.0126
Fax: 1.818.871.9737
E-mail: info@amawaterways.com

We are monitoring the situation closely and will provide an update should it become necessary to alter our business hours and services. The safety and wellbeing of our employees is of the utmost importance, and our thoughts are with them as well as with our valued guests and travel partners within the affected areas.

 

 

UPDATE ABOUT LOW WATER LEVELS ON THE DANUBE & RHINE RIVERSCLICK HERE

[Aslangold]

Nothing new to report but a very interesting article appeared in my Travel Agent Newsletter.   After this season of river cruising, I think this is a good idea.  https://www.travelweekly.com/Richard-Turen/Is-it-time-for-river-cruise-bill-of-rights?utm_source=eNewsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=eltrdb&eid=W2TkTymnzA5MEza7y/8an7wwe8mOk+QVGDBne4sZrWU=

 

[notamermaid]

19 minutes ago, Aslangold said:

Nothing new to report but a very interesting article appeared in my Travel Agent Newsletter.   After this season of river cruising, I think this is a good idea.  https://www.travelweekly.com/Richard-Turen/Is-it-time-for-river-cruise-bill-of-rights?utm_source=eNewsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=eltrdb&eid=W2TkTymnzA5MEza7y/8an7wwe8mOk+QVGDBne4sZrWU=

 

I saw this article on the website yesterday and thought this might be worth starting a new thread with as it is about more than just the Rhine. As it is getting distribution and some more attention that way I think I will give it a go.

 

notamermaid

 

[gadugger]

6 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

I saw this article on the website yesterday and thought this might be worth starting a new thread with as it is about more than just the Rhine. As it is getting distribution and some more attention that way I think I will give it a go.

 

notamermaid

 

An additional right that should be included is disclosure about cancellations specifically if cruise cancellations are linked to air cancellation if air is booked thru the cruise. AMA didn't disclose that if a cruise cancellation occurs either by the company or by the customer, then air booked through them is also cancelled. 

[Mark_T]

24 minutes ago, gadugger said:

An additional right that should be included is disclosure about cancellations specifically if cruise cancellations are linked to air cancellation if air is booked thru the cruise. AMA didn't disclose that if a cruise cancellation occurs either by the company or by the customer, then air booked through them is also cancelled. 

APT gave us the option to cancel all, or still keep the air (at a cost) and cancel everything else.

 

... more shortly, we have a little excitement at the moment as our itinerary is changing to Nijmegen tomorrow, taking us in the ‘right’ direction if the water levels should by some chance deliver a good change in the next 24 hours or so...

[Mark_T]

OK, everything changes 🙂

 

After Nijmegen we are heading for Cologne, then Koblenz and then up the Moselle before returning to the Rhine again and Düsseldorf.

 

After that we fly to Vienna.

 

This means that Namedy is back on as an evening event, so everyone is happy.

 

... and of course everything can still change... .. again... 🙂

 

 

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

APT gave us the option to cancel all, or still keep the air (at a cost) and cancel everything else.

 

... more shortly, we have a little excitement at the moment as our itinerary is changing to Nijmegen tomorrow, taking us in the ‘right’ direction if the water levels should by some chance deliver a good change in the next 24 hours or so...

From what you have described before and what you are mentioning now, I dare conclude that APT operates slightly differently from Ama, perhaps based on different ways of doing business in Australia. Or you being in the UK depending how you have booked they could be bound to EU regulations. Whatever the reason, comparing both companies practices here posted on this board have differed slightly.

 

What an adventure your cruise is turning into. I hope it works out with Nijmegen and beyond.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Just now, Mark_T said:

OK, everything changes 🙂

 

After Nijmegen we are heading for Cologne, then Koblenz and then up the Moselle before returning to the Rhine again and Düsseldorf.

 

After that we fly to Vienna.

 

This means that Namedy is back on as an evening event, so everyone is happy.

 

... and of course everything can still change... .. again... 🙂

 

 

Changes by the minute! Glad to hear that. The Moselle is lovely, but I think after seeing ural-guy's photos everyone knows that already. 

 

notamermaid

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

6 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

OK, everything changes 🙂

 

After Nijmegen we are heading for Cologne, then Koblenz and then up the Moselle before returning to the Rhine again and Düsseldorf.

 

After that we fly to Vienna.

 

This means that Namedy is back on as an evening event, so everyone is happy.

 

... and of course everything can still change... .. again... 🙂

 

 

 

This is a very good example of why the river cruise lines have not been more 'forthcoming' with dire warnings.  They are watching the river changes and adapting at the last minute to provide the best cruise possible, so that most passengers will be satisfied with the cruise they receive.  Scaring people off would just result in empty boats.  Don't forget that this year's extra costs are going to show up in future years' cruise prices!

[ural guy]

Notamermaid-  Thanks, you are too kind.

 

Mark-  I do think that is good news, literally haven't seen another cruise ship on the Mosel.

 

Today I did bike to Trier, and what a difference a day makes (or 2)! Saturday, Porta Nigra had many people milling about at all times; today it was wonderfully less crowded.

 

Checked out both Roman Baths, and the Dom.  I have been in many churches and cathedrals.  The statues in this one were phenomenal.   At one point, I thought I was exiting, and was actually entering a peaceful courtyard.  Can't recommend enough.

 

Warm enough, I biked back in shorts and Tshirt, until the rain came.  Hope it is enough to help out folks in the next week or so.

[FuelScience]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I saw this article on the website yesterday and thought this might be worth starting a new thread with as it is about more than just the Rhine. As it is getting distribution and some more attention that way I think I will give it a go.

 

notamermaid

 

If you start a "River Cruiser's Bill or Rights," I'll post the "rights" that were spelled out in my documents I received from Nicko. They specifically come from EU Directive 2015/2302.

[CILCIANRQTS]

Now on Viking Eir in Koblenz.

Woke up this morning in Strasbourg.

Bussed to Heidelberg. Lunch on Viking.

Bus trip to Braubach to board Eir.

Sailed during dinner to Koblenz.

Local boat sail on the Middle Rhine to see castles in the morning.

Afternoon excursion to Marksburg castle.

Evening sail to Cologne.

Pretty smooth ship swap!

Only missed stop was Rudesheim.

 

P.S. Heavy rain this afternoon, but not enough to fill a river.

Edited November 12, 2018 by CILCIANRQTS