Carnival tipping to Bag Porters

[maryred]

So here’s a follow up question

 

The tip is given to the porters at the baggage drop area. I assume they get the bags from that spot to the ship. But then there the guys on the ship that actually get the bags to each floor and then in front of your cabin door.

Does your tip cover the entire value chain of baggage delivery or only to the guys that get your bags to the ship. Do the guys who route the bags to the rooms get some of the collected tips ? If not, that’s the travesty here

 

 

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The tip given to the curbside porters ends with them. It goes right into their pocket. Again the curbside porters tend to be port authority employees and their responsibility for your checked luggage starts/ends with you and the Customs area security check point or the zone luggage staging area.

Before arriving on the ship but after going through security screening (and the reverse on return) is where longshoremen or teamsters are involved. They transport the baggage through what is generally considered "no man's land" the area after Customs but before the hull of the ship.

On board general any crewmember without another specific responsibility on turn around day will be required to help with the sorting and delivery of luggage for a portion of their work shift. They will receive some sort of tips out of the Alternate Service portion of your auto-gratuities. How much they individually receive is based on what job they are doing towards luggage delivery and how much time of their work shift is spent doing it.

The alternative services portion on most cruise lines is where most people get the misconception if the tipping pool from. Since it would be massive amounts of paperwork for the paymaster to apportion the tips from specific cabins for luggage delivery/collection to the individual crew involved it just easier for them to split it using a job load rating and hours worked. In a basic nutshell the crew doing the more strenuous work and those working longer that work period on a tipped activity will see a higher percentage of the tip pool. Which is well and good enough for my family as we have never seen the luggage ninjas dropping off or taking away our checked luggage. Don't get me wrong we've seen crew making the hallway deliveries just never for our bags specifically that we can tip them directly.

 

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[Pellaz]

When checking in, $2/bag is probably typical for me. When debarking, I get a porter, put all luggage for 2 people (including bags formerly known as carry ons + souvenirs), and usually tip $20 for the express passage through customs, if nothing else.

 

Which ports still have "express passage" through Customs for porter-assisted debark? Sadly, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale no longer have an express line for porters. :(

 

I seriously doubt luggage goes swimming because someone is cheap. I think it is possible it might not be treated gently, or might not get a priority sticker (do they still do those?). But no, I don't tip out of fear, but because I consider it the right thing to do.

Yes, AFAIK they still use priority stickers for FTTF and VIFP passengers' checked luggage.

If a curbside porter sees our FTTF on the luggage tag and then puts the priority tag on our luggage, I tip more accordingly, and make sure he knows why.

 

I bet there are lots of people who provide a service to you that you don't tip.

 

I tip in 2 situations.

 

1) where I know that the person is being paid less than the market value for those services with tips expected to make up the difference

 

2) where the person is paid fairly for what they do, but goes above and beyond for me.

 

I'd also add

 

3) "Where tipping is customary." Borrowing the IRS' phrase there.

 

I've had cruise line employees who met #2 for me, but who I did not tip because in their cases, tipping is not customary. One example was a hotel services officer (uniform with epaulettes) who helped us secure a move to a different stateroom due to A/C problems. I didn't tip him because as an officer it isn't customary, BUT I did mention his assistance both in my CruiseCritic review and in my satisfaction survey.

They sent a crewman to our room to help us move our stuff to the new room on a luggage cart. Now HIM, I tipped, under Condition #1. :)

[Doggielover68]

I really hate the idea of tipping and being solicited for tips is annoying. That being said, there are so many jobs where tipping is customary even though it may not be necessary for certain jobs, I.e. Starbucks employees receive tips sometimes, but they are paid a full wage.

That being said, if you participate in an activity where tipping is customary, you should do it. If you don't want to tip, you should avoid doing things that require tipping. Stiffing people is never okay.

 

 

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[BlerkOne]

Which ports still have "express passage" through Customs for porter-assisted debark? Sadly, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale no longer have an express line for porters. :(

 

:)

 

New York, Galveston, New Orleans, Long Beach - at least last time I used. I would think more. Time is money for the porters. Maybe there is a union beef or something.

 

It was disappointing in FLL, however, there was no line for the passport app line. I had the app but had not set it up. YMMV.

 

Not sure what is wrong with Miami.

[SkyPiglet]

First things first... I am NOT a fan of tipping culture. I would prefer that all employees are paid a fair wage by their employer, and that that would be reflected in the prices of service, and that would be the end of it. But current reality...

 

 

• I live in a country where waitresses are paid less than minimum wage with the expectation that tips will supplement their pay, so I play ball and tip servers appropriately.
  
• I cruise on a cruise line where the tips are expected as part of the service oriented crew's salaries, so I play ball, and keep my gratuities intact, and encourage others to not remove gratuities. I would prefer it was an obligatory service charge, not a gratuity, to avoid any confusion, but for now, this is how it is. I do extra when the service is above and beyond, which is... very often, especially with the stewards and bar staff.
  

Now, for the porters, I am glad to just avoid the whole issue. The union ones seem to make a good salary, if what is read in this thread is true. I pack so lightly that I just self assist with my bags. Nobody is working for me and nobody is getting screwed either.

 

I am reminded of my first visit to Las Vegas. A guy picked up my bags at the hotel entrance, and told us not to worry, as he carried them, with us, to check in. He said he was going to take them to our room. We tipped him about $20, checked in, and he was gone, our bags right where he was standing. We carried them to our room. Lesson learned about tipping BEFORE the service is completed. I don't think he was even a hotel employee.

[Toofarfromthesea]

First things first... I am NOT a fan of tipping culture. I would prefer that all employees are paid a fair wage by their employer, and that that would be reflected in the prices of service, and that would be the end of it. But current reality...

 

 

• I live in a country where waitresses are paid less than minimum wage with the expectation that tips will supplement their pay, so I play ball and tip servers appropriately.
  
• I cruise on a cruise line where the tips are expected as part of the service oriented crew's salaries, so I play ball, and keep my gratuities intact, and encourage others to not remove gratuities. I would prefer it was an obligatory service charge, not a gratuity, to avoid any confusion, but for now, this is how it is. I do extra when the service is above and beyond, which is... very often, especially with the stewards and bar staff.
  

Now, for the porters, I am glad to just avoid the whole issue. The union ones seem to make a good salary, if what is read in this thread is true. I pack so lightly that I just self assist with my bags. Nobody is working for me and nobody is getting screwed either.

 

I am reminded of my first visit to Las Vegas. A guy picked up my bags at the hotel entrance, and told us not to worry, as he carried them, with us, to check in. He said he was going to take them to our room. We tipped him about $20, checked in, and he was gone, our bags right where he was standing. We carried them to our room. Lesson learned about tipping BEFORE the service is completed. I don't think he was even a hotel employee.

 

The problem with including them in the fare can be seen by visiting some tipping threads pertaining to all inclusives. Many of them are 'gratuities included', but you have the same kinds of tipping threads we have here. All of the same conspiracy theories, but now anyone who doesn't tip above and beyond the included gratuities for routine service is excoriated.

[BlerkOne]

The problem with including them in the fare can be seen by visiting some tipping threads pertaining to all inclusives. Many of them are 'gratuities included', but you have the same kinds of tipping threads we have here. All of the same conspiracy theories, but now anyone who doesn't tip above and beyond the included gratuities for routine service is excoriated.

 

As this thread is about porters who aren't cruise line employees, I think that would make it a non-starter. Then you have people who don't use porters. People who can pack 2 weeks of clothes into a gym bag and those who need 5 trunks.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

I bet there are lots of people who provide a service to you that you don't tip.

 

I tip in 2 situations.

 

1) where I know that the person is being paid less than the market value for those services with tips expected to make up the difference

 

2) where the person is paid fairly for what they do, but goes above and beyond for me

 

Neither applies to Union longshoremen. #1 is why I never have and never will remove or adjust the auto-grats. #2 is why I don't do much additional tipping 'just because'. If all the MDR waiter does is take my order and bring my food then I feel no need to tip beyond the auto-grats. Last cruise the additional tips went to the piano bar guy and the 2 bartenders and the waitress at the piano bar. They fit #2.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

 

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[CdrescherRBL152]

We usually have 2 or 3 bags. Generally give them a $20

 

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[oldmanonthesea]

$10 to $20, depending on how many bags we have. I'm always very pleasant to the people handling my luggage; I don't want to start my vacation with missing luggage. Once, when flying to Seattle from San Diego, my wife was snarky to the airline agent. My bag showed up in Seattle, my wife's bag went to Reno!

[Luckiestmanonearth]

We usually have 2 or 3 bags. Generally give them a $20

 

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That’s very generous. Seems too much but “to each their own” I guess

 

 

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[Bernardo62]

So here’s a follow up question

 

The tip is given to the porters at the baggage drop area. I assume they get the bags from that spot to the ship. But then there the guys on the ship that actually get the bags to each floor and then in front of your cabin door.

Does your tip cover the entire value chain of baggage delivery or only to the guys that get your bags to the ship. Do the guys who route the bags to the rooms get some of the collected tips ? If not, that’s the travesty here

 

 

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Some people just guess and have no clue of who the "porters" are...

I think 1 person knew they are LONGSHOREMEN

You would be surprised how much they get paid before your tip

LONGSHOREMEN start off at 6 figures and have a union

So with your tip for (7 days a week) they go home with a nice wage - - - $1,500+ (TAX FREE) remember it's cash!!

Do they go in the ship- - -- NOOOOOO

Will your bag get lost if you don't tip them - - - -MAYBE

[DoCboYY]

Hello, there are a lot of uninformed misconceptions about the process so i'll chime in as someone who's been working PT as a longshoremen for the last decade.

 

When you arrive at the port to check in your luggage, the 1st longshoreman you are encountering are usually the ones with the highest seniority (most years working) unless there are 8 or more cruise ships docking that day (in S FL). They are responsible for making sure your luggage tags are correctly filled out and placing your bags onto the correct carts for your cabin on your specific side of the ship. Now tipping is optional, but those who tip will generally have their bags prioritized and generally get their luggage at their cabin door quicker. Those who don't tip will often have a longer wait or may have their luggage placed in the wrong cart as it is not prioritized (unless it is really lightweight and easy to handle) you can usually tell by looking back and seeing if your luggage is still sitting where u left it as you walk away.

 

The courtesy thing to do is tip however as it is a long tradition, however no porter is allowed to badger you for a tip those who do are breaking the rules. I'd say most of you have the correct idea in mind $2-3 dollars per bag is a sufficient tip, of course the more the better. That said, If you know you have several pieces of luggage to check in weighing 75+ pounds I would recommend you tip at least $10. 

 

TIP: Don't worry about the dirty looks as long as you've tipped sufficiently, some guys are just lazy disgruntled old farts always complaining about something you can often tell by their unwelcoming attitude from the get go and you don't have to check your bags in with them, if their vibe is off then go on to the next welcoming porter and check in with him and tip him instead. They are not all the same. Some are great others can be real DlCKz!

 

After this point. Once your bags are on a full cart it is pulled away by the PULLERS, the longshoremen with lower seniority to the scanner room where they now will be scanned by the X-ray. Now this is where the real hard work takes places as the longshoremen with the lowest seniority have to manually take each bag off the carts and place it onto the X-ray machine belt then place it back onto a cart again to be hauled away by the forks and loaded onto the cruise ship. This is also the point where if your tags are not properly placed on your bag by you or the 1st longshoreman they may tear or come off which results in your luggage being placed in the lost and found area aboard the ship, or if you have something that is not suppose to be in the luggage it will be flagged and stalled. ::Starting in 2018 the guys in this group which are probably the most deserving no longer receive tips in the afternoon arrival time unless senior guys choose to throw them some bread crumbs as tips are no longer pooled. (If you can tip one of these guys, if for nothing more then to show appreciation for true hard workers or just to see their reaction as these are the true hardest workers, do it, at your own discretion of course!)::

 

Well there you have it! This is the true process of what happens with your luggage upon arriving at the cruise port!

 

As for salary, on the Southern East Coast. Yes UNION longshoreman are paid well hourly but generally the whole 80k-150k a year thing is a myth. The busy part of the cruise season is only roughly 6 months Nov-April, after that the work dries up for the majority of longshoremen except for the one's with the highest of high of seniority like 20+ years. These are the guys that can make that amount if they choose to take the work. I'd say the average Longshoreman makes no more than 50-60K and that's if you work hard and take the less than desirable jobs in the summer when the cruise ships leave for the slow season and highest seniority guys doesn't want to do them. Jobs like tying rods on dirty dangerous container ships, driving tractor trailers/top loaders, flagging and things of that nature, many pass up this time period as this is the part of the season where many longshoremen have been/are killed and face many hazardous conditions. At this point for anybody with less than say, 10 years it will be very hard to get work at the port, if they do it's the highly inconsistent bottom of the barrel jobs, however most are just on unemployment or are forced to get summer jobs as it will be very difficult to pay monthly bills this way.

[DoCboYY]

On 7/20/2018 at 1:56 PM, Bernardo62 said:

 

Some people just guess and have no clue of who the "porters" are...

I think 1 person knew they are LONGSHOREMEN

You would be surprised how much they get paid before your tip

LONGSHOREMEN start off at 6 figures and have a union

So with your tip for (7 days a week) they go home with a nice wage - - - $1,500+ (TAX FREE) remember it's cash!!

Do they go in the ship- - -- NOOOOOO

Will your bag get lost if you don't tip them - - - -MAYBE

 

This is a clear example of a person with uninformed misconceptions unconsciously spreading misinformation. No Longshoremen starts off at 6 figures or works 7 days per week. Cruise ships don't even go out on cruises 7 days a week and generally don't stay at a particular port for more than 6 months a year. You'd be lucky to make even 20k a year just starting out. You also have to work 700hrs in 1 cruise season in order to gain 1 yr seniority in the union, which is almost impossible for most starting out because the busy season is only 6 months out of the year. This is why many people give up on becoming a longshoremen altogether after a season or 2 in addition to it being really labor intensive work for those just starting out. So people really have to start getting all the facts before writing on a subject they really know nothing about. Stop listening to these websites saying longshoremen make 150-200k a year it's nothing but a bunch of nonsense.

[Saint Greg]

23 minutes ago, DoCboYY said:

 

This is a clear example of a person with uninformed misconceptions unconsciously spreading misinformation. No Longshoremen starts off at 6 figures or works 7 days per week. Cruise ships don't even go out on cruises 7 days a week and generally don't stay at a particular port for more than 6 months a year. You'd be lucky to make even 20k a year just starting out. You also have to work 700hrs in 1 cruise season in order to gain 1 yr seniority in the union, which is almost impossible for most starting out because the busy season is only 6 months out of the year. This is why many people give up on becoming a longshoremen altogether after a season or 2 in addition to it being really labor intensive work for those just starting out. So people really have to start getting all the facts before writing on a subject they really know nothing about. Stop listening to these websites saying longshoremen make 150-200k a year it's nothing but a bunch of nonsense.

 

If they only work on days cruise ships are in port, it would be 10 days a month in New Orleans.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, DoCboYY said:

Hello, there are a lot of uninformed misconceptions about the process so i'll chime in as someone who's been working PT as a longshoremen for the last decade.

 

As for salary, on the Southern East Coast. Yes UNION longshoreman are paid well hourly but generally the whole 80k-150k a year thing is a myth. The busy part of the cruise season is only roughly 6 months Nov-April, after that the work dries up for the majority of longshoremen except for the one's with the highest of high of seniority like 20+ years. These are the guys that can make that amount if they choose to take the work. I'd say the average Longshoreman makes no more than 50-60K and that's if you work hard and take the less than desirable jobs in the summer when the cruise ships leave for the slow season and highest seniority guys doesn't want to do them. Jobs like tying rods on dirty dangerous container ships, driving tractor trailers/top loaders, flagging and things of that nature, many pass up this time period as this is the part of the season where many longshoremen have been/are killed and face many hazardous conditions. At this point for anybody with less than say, 10 years it will be very hard to get work at the port, if they do it's the highly inconsistent bottom of the barrel jobs, however most are just on unemployment or are forced to get summer jobs as it will be very difficult to pay monthly bills this way.

And as someone who has dealt with longshoremen on all US coasts for decades, I would say that your impressions are those of someone who has worked part time.  Generally, there are one to two "ghost" members of each longshore team, whether it is line handling, container handling, or cruise ships.  These "ghosts", while not common for cruise ship operations, since they can pester for tips in these easy jobs, are almost universal for cargo ships, and are the most senior people, who as you say "don't want the nasty, dirty jobs", but sure do want the pay for them, so they sign on as part of the gang, and then don't show up to work.  So, while the senior guys, who do make the six figure salaries, work the cruise ships as the easy jobs, they also "work" the other jobs while fishing.

 

I don't believe I said that "all" longshoremen make six figures, nor that the average was in the six figures, but the numbers I've always quoted when talking about longshoremen on CC have come from industry sources like port councils and shipper's associations.

Edited January 8, 2019 by chengkp75

[coevan]

3 hours ago, DoCboYY said:

ow tipping is optional, but those who tip will generally have their bags prioritized and generally get their luggage at their cabin door quicker.

 

 

This is pure bull. The guys outside have nothing to do once the baggage is loaded on the ship and Carnival takes over the distribution. These guys have no idea if you tipped a porter or not.

 

 

3 hours ago, DoCboYY said:

The busy part of the cruise season is only roughly 6 months Nov-April

 

 

cruises are booked to capacity year round. The summer months are always packed with families.

[Cafedumonde]

3 hours ago, DoCboYY said:

Hello, there are a lot of uninformed misconceptions about the process so i'll chime in as someone who's been working PT as a longshoremen for the last decade.

 

When you arrive at the port to check in your luggage, the 1st longshoreman you are encountering are usually the ones with the highest seniority (most years working) unless there are 8 or more cruise ships docking that day (in S FL). They are responsible for making sure your luggage tags are correctly filled out and placing your bags onto the correct carts for your cabin on your specific side of the ship. Now tipping is optional, but those who tip will generally have their bags prioritized and generally get their luggage at their cabin door quicker. Those who don't tip will often have a longer wait or may have their luggage placed in the wrong cart as it is not prioritized (unless it is really lightweight and easy to handle) you can usually tell by looking back and seeing if your luggage is still sitting where u left it as you walk away.

 

The courtesy thing to do is tip however as it is a long tradition, however no porter is allowed to badger you for a tip those who do are breaking the rules. I'd say most of you have the correct idea in mind $2-3 dollars per bag is a sufficient tip, of course the more the better. That said, If you know you have several pieces of luggage to check in weighing 75+ pounds I would recommend you tip at least $10. 

 

TIP: Don't worry about the dirty looks as long as you've tipped sufficiently, some guys are just lazy disgruntled old farts always complaining about something you can often tell by their unwelcoming attitude from the get go and you don't have to check your bags in with them, if their vibe is off then go on to the next welcoming porter and check in with him and tip him instead. They are not all the same. Some are great others can be real DlCKz!

 

After this point. Once your bags are on a full cart it is pulled away by the PULLERS, the longshoremen with lower seniority to the scanner room where they now will be scanned by the X-ray. Now this is where the real hard work takes places as the longshoremen with the lowest seniority have to manually take each bag off the carts and place it onto the X-ray machine belt then place it back onto a cart again to be hauled away by the forks and loaded onto the cruise ship. This is also the point where if your tags are not properly placed on your bag by you or the 1st longshoreman they may tear or come off which results in your luggage being placed in the lost and found area aboard the ship, or if you have something that is not suppose to be in the luggage it will be flagged and stalled. ::Starting in 2018 the guys in this group which are probably the most deserving no longer receive tips in the afternoon arrival time unless senior guys choose to throw them some bread crumbs as tips are no longer pooled. (If you can tip one of these guys, if for nothing more then to show appreciation for true hard workers or just to see their reaction as these are the true hardest workers, do it, at your own discretion of course!)::

 

Well there you have it! This is the true process of what happens with your luggage upon arriving at the cruise port!

 

As for salary, on the Southern East Coast. Yes UNION longshoreman are paid well hourly but generally the whole 80k-150k a year thing is a myth. The busy part of the cruise season is only roughly 6 months Nov-April, after that the work dries up for the majority of longshoremen except for the one's with the highest of high of seniority like 20+ years. These are the guys that can make that amount if they choose to take the work. I'd say the average Longshoreman makes no more than 50-60K and that's if you work hard and take the less than desirable jobs in the summer when the cruise ships leave for the slow season and highest seniority guys doesn't want to do them. Jobs like tying rods on dirty dangerous container ships, driving tractor trailers/top loaders, flagging and things of that nature, many pass up this time period as this is the part of the season where many longshoremen have been/are killed and face many hazardous conditions. At this point for anybody with less than say, 10 years it will be very hard to get work at the port, if they do it's the highly inconsistent bottom of the barrel jobs, however most are just on unemployment or are forced to get summer jobs as it will be very difficult to pay monthly bills this way.

This is interesting and I agree about bags getting priority with tips.  A couple of cruises back I didn't have any change and was in a particularly jovial mood and gave the baggage handler a $20 for 3 average size bags and the handler said, "You're a smart girl."  I didn't know what she meant and didn't really think about it.  We got on the ship, meandered a bit, but basically went first to our cabin (it was around 1 or so), and our bags were at our door!!  It clicked when I saw the bags-- wow, did our bags get expedited because of the tip? I think they did.  Lol.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Cafedumonde said:

This is interesting and I agree about bags getting priority with tips.  A couple of cruises back I didn't have any change and was in a particularly jovial mood and gave the baggage handler a $20 for 3 average size bags and the handler said, "You're a smart girl."  I didn't know what she meant and didn't really think about it.  We got on the ship, meandered a bit, but basically went first to our cabin (it was around 1 or so), and our bags were at our door!!  It clicked when I saw the bags-- wow, did our bags get expedited because of the tip? I think they did.  Lol.

Considering as the previous poster stated, there are several longshoremen between the one you tipped and getting your bag on the ship (and who is going to share a tip?), and then, once the bags are on the ship, in no particular order on the carts, they are no longer handled by longshoremen, but by crew, I would say that your "expedited" bags were just luck.

[coevan]

Again, how do the Carnival employees know you tipped the porter? You just got lucky. We are Platinum and tip well. We have gotten our bags at 1 and at 5, no rhyme or reason

[coevan]

great minds think alike 

[Florings]

If we have one bag, we generally tip $5.    If we have multiple bags, we tip $2 or $3 a bag.  Honestly, it's a small price to pay for the service, in the grand scheme of things.

[Cushing985]

I just received my Consumer Reports magazine and it had an article about tipping.  The closest equivalent to a porter at the cruise terminal is an airport skycap or porter.  The magazine stated $1 to $3 per bag for multiple bags or $5 for a single bag.  Personally I tip $3 per bag.

[DoCboYY]

5 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

 

If they only work on days cruise ships are in port, it would be 10 days a month in New Orleans.

 

Correct. In fact that's often exactly how many days those with the lowest seniority work about 10 days a month or so, give or take. Mostly on the weekends, now those with higher seniority that are also certified to operate machinery like forklift, tractor trailer or top loader do a bit better than that because they can work the container ships when the cruise ships aren't as abundant. 

[DoCboYY]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And as someone who has dealt with longshoremen on all US coasts for decades, I would say that your impressions are those of someone who has worked part time.  Generally, there are one to two "ghost" members of each longshore team, whether it is line handling, container handling, or cruise ships.  These "ghosts", while not common for cruise ship operations, since they can pester for tips in these easy jobs, are almost universal for cargo ships, and are the most senior people, who as you say "don't want the nasty, dirty jobs", but sure do want the pay for them, so they sign on as part of the gang, and then don't show up to work.  So, while the senior guys, who do make the six figure salaries, work the cruise ships as the easy jobs, they also "work" the other jobs while fishing.

 

I don't believe I said that "all" longshoremen make six figures, nor that the average was in the six figures, but the numbers I've always quoted when talking about longshoremen on CC have come from industry sources like port councils and shipper's associations.

 

Don't misconstrued me working PT as someone that's not in the know about the operations. As I work part-time, but my family members that have high seniority do not. If you know anything you know that generally if you work as a longshoreman then usually you have family that is also in the occupation. So no, my impressions are not of someone who's JUST working PT.

 

The whole ghosting thing is something that's being dealt with slowly as it goes a bit deeper that just the ILA union as there are often other, I'll just say "entities" that are involved when it comes that. It's already been publicly documented in the news as stories have been posted on the Tampa ILA union's ghosting situation and also many of Miami ILA members have been getting arrested and/or indicted within the past year for being involved with this scheme and that chapter has been put under trustee ship due to it as well with more coming down the line. This is not any new news to me.

 

and It's not about what you "believe" It's a fact MOST longshoremen DO NOT make 6 figures, for the reasons I have already explained in the prior posts above. So please, stop listening to these "industry sources" that have their own agendas as they are part of contract negotiation meetings (over wages) and take it from a longshoreman. I have no reason to lie about this, just want to dispel all the rumors and spreading of false info.