Service Charge Vs. tipping freely on NCL

[fshagan]

33 minutes ago, buckeyefrank said:

A portion of their wages MAY be subject to US tax reporting.  It would only be the portion of wages that are earned while in US waters though.  The wage and labor laws are definitely NOT based on US laws.  US law dictates things like the 40 hour work week, overtime, FLMA, employment status, issuance of year-end W2 forms, etc.  Employees or NCL are not subject to those laws.  However, generally speaking income earned while in the US (I believe including US waters) would be subject to US taxation.  Different subject.

 

My understanding is that you are right regarding working hours, overtime pay, etc. That is governed by their union and the agreement with the ship. But, as far as tax law, that's not the way US tax law works. It has nothing to do with US waters or even if you live in the country.

 

US citizens are taxed on their world-wide income, regardless of where they are, and even if they are a dual citizen and have never set foot in the US. There are some tax deductions for seafarers, usually related to meal deductions, etc. There are also some "tax treaty" provisions where, if subject to another country's tax laws, you can avoid some or all US income tax with off-setting credits, but AFAIK, these don't apply to seafarers.

 

NCL pays US citizens and residents subject to US tax law with all the regular deductions we see on our checks at home; income tax, payroll tax, etc. People under the tax jurisdiction of other countries are paid without any withholding and are expected to settle up with their home country, unless that country has a specific arrangement with NCL. The UK has an exemption for seafarers who work outside the UK waters (if you meet the requirements you don't pay UK income tax).    Source.

 

[buckeyefrank]

57 minutes ago, fshagan said:

 

My understanding is that you are right regarding working hours, overtime pay, etc. That is governed by their union and the agreement with the ship. But, as far as tax law, that's not the way US tax law works. It has nothing to do with US waters or even if you live in the country.

 

US citizens are taxed on their world-wide income, regardless of where they are, and even if they are a dual citizen and have never set foot in the US. There are some tax deductions for seafarers, usually related to meal deductions, etc. There are also some "tax treaty" provisions where, if subject to another country's tax laws, you can avoid some or all US income tax with off-setting credits, but AFAIK, these don't apply to seafarers.

 

NCL pays US citizens and residents subject to US tax law with all the regular deductions we see on our checks at home; income tax, payroll tax, etc. People under the tax jurisdiction of other countries are paid without any withholding and are expected to settle up with their home country, unless that country has a specific arrangement with NCL. The UK has an exemption for seafarers who work outside the UK waters (if you meet the requirements you don't pay UK income tax).    Source.

 

Don't disagree with what you're saying here.  My "broad brush" is assuming the standard employee onboard with NCL is not a US citizen.

[Trimone]

5 hours ago, erdoran said:

Are you Haven or Joy concierge cabin?  The reason I ask is that when I asked NCL the question about why the Haven DSC is higher-also asked TA same question - both said because it includes tips for butler and concierge, so I don’t need to tip additionally.  We all know that is misinformation, so that’s why I’m wondering about your concierge tip.  But, being from the UK it may be different.

Yes we are in a concierge cabin, I think paying everything up front, takes away tipping culture, and it’s fair across all nations where tipping is just for going beyond your normal duties.

[zebrazeb]

amazing how this thread has gone all over the place.  My opinion of what I will do, is probably the same, but I feel a little more informed, based on opinions/facts people have said in the thread.

 

I pay my DSC up front, before the cruise, so I know what my initial overall cost will be.  It is for the behind the scenes people, and the like, so I am ok with this, as long as I know this up front.

 

This next cruise, we will be in Haven, and like once before, will most likely tip my butler and concierge, with what I feel is appropriate for their use.  I never use the butler, and honestly think this trip, will even tell them to just NOT bring the daily snack.  Too much food all over the cruise anyway, and just do not need it.  Last cruise received thank you gifts of food, from concierge, casino, etc.  So we had piles of food in room, that was not eaten fully.  The concierge we actually used last time for general questions, dinner reservations, getting off ship through special elevator.  How much is that service worth?   For me, not too much.

Last time I did ok, in casino, so felt ok sharing some of that with concierge, butler, and room attentend….and yes my wife got the most 😉

[NancyW12]

I used to be all in on paying the DSC but I believe I may remove it next time. Here's the part that bothers me- if I knew the employees were getting paid (making up numbers here) $50 a day and then were getting a portion of the DSC, I'd be in. But, it's that language of "employee compensation and programs" that gets me- does that mean they are paid $10 a day and get tips split? How do they split the tips? Does everybody get some? What are the programs that the cruise line has decided needed to be provided in lieu of an employee getting more cash in their paycheck?

 

The language is too vague and while it might not go to the bottom line, the DSC is clearly not passed on to non-visible employees in its entirety but is used to offset something NCL doesn't want to spend its own money to provide- hence, it's going to NCL's bottom line.

[Tapi]

On 12/12/2019 at 7:24 AM, wilmingtech said:

but then you have a product like Disney which is 3x more expensive, doesnt include tips and they still sell out.

We sailed on the Disney Fantasy. Our lowly standard stateroom was $3,000 cheaper than what we are paying for a Haven forward penthouse suite aboard the Norwegian Encore. Needless to say, Disney was a one time cruise for us. But the vast majority of fellow cruisers we met onboard will ONLY sail on Disney. Everything else is crap and they’ll gladly pay extra for the Disney experience.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Tapi

[Oakman58]

I don't care how the DSC is divided up among the crew or even if a portion is used for something else.  The crew gets some of that DSC for sure.  I take if for granted that because of the DSC the crew make very good money on a cruise ship.  Why else would they be willing to leave their families behind for many months at a time.

 

I think it's a damn shame that some people look for reasons to remove the DSC from their bill.

[don't-use-real-name]

Well it is NCLs fault for levying the DSC in the first place and then saying it can optionally be reduced in part or full.

 

Forget having the guest customer being forced to TIP and adjust the tipping -

Quit using the customer as a scapegoat for less crew compensation -

Best would be let the guest customer determine what and whom needs to be tipped of the customer contact crew -

Raise or not raise the cruise fare and pay the non-guest/customer contact people adequately -

 

For those customer contact crew people Stewards Butler Concierge Host/Wait People Bartenders TIP these

employees on their own individual merits.

 

NCL sure makes it complicated in addressing the compensation given to "WE ARE FAMILY" and using the

guest customer as the agent of TIP compensation - to adjust or not to adjust - in full or in part  ---

And being a captive consumer in the process. 

 

Agree or not - NCL has brought this quirk upon itself - TIPs the DSC should not be automatically foisted on

the guest customer !!! 

  

[erdoran]

Agree 100%.  If NCL cares about their employees being properly compensated, having incentives, etc. why leave it to the generosity of pax? Or guilt them into paying a phony gratuity that’s really mandatory/part of their payroll?  Add it to the fare and make sure all crew are properly compensated.  End of story.

[FLAHAM]

25 minutes ago, erdoran said:

Agree 100%.  If NCL cares about their employees being properly compensated, having incentives, etc. why leave it to the generosity of pax? Or guilt them into paying a phony gratuity that’s really mandatory/part of their payroll?  Add it to the fare and make sure all crew are properly compensated.  End of story.

Same for waiters in land restaurants?  Hotel housekeepers?  Hotel bellmen? Barbers and hair stylists?  Etc., etc.?

[Oakman58]

I don't see what the big deal is.  Most, if not all, of the major cruise lines add a service charge to your bill to cover the tip.  It's not just an NCL thing. 

[NLH Arizona]

29 minutes ago, Oakman58 said:

I don't see what the big deal is.  Most, if not all, of the major cruise lines add a service charge to your bill to cover the tip.  It's not just an NCL thing. 

Some posters just dislike NCL so much, that they blame the automatic service charge/gratuities, that most cruise lines do, on them.  I'd bet that these folks would be the first to complain if NCL added it to the fare, just as many did in Europe when NCL did it there.  Reason, they don't want to pay it no matter if it is through the DSC or added to the fare.

[erdoran]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

Some posters just dislike NCL so much, that they blame the automatic service charge/gratuities, that most cruise lines do, on them.  I'd bet that these folks would be the first to complain if NCL added it to the fare, just as many did in Europe when NCL did it there.  Reason, they don't want to pay it no matter if it is through the DSC or added to the fare.

I have no problem paying it.  I tip over and above as well to dsc people where warranted.  I think it’s unfair to crew to make them dependent on the whim of the cruiser. 
 

re land based restaurants it’s totally different.  Kitchen, laundry and other non customer facing staff are paid by employer directly.  It’s a given you will tip about 20% more or less.  Known fact.  
 

and I’m not picking on ncl.  I find the dsc practice deceptive and unfair to crew across the entire cruise industry.  That goes for all cruise lines who bury it.  Just add it to the invoice total at booking time and make it mandatory.  Done deal.  No deceit. Crew benefits.  Cruisers know total fixed cost.  

[NLH Arizona]

1 hour ago, erdoran said:

I have no problem paying it.  I tip over and above as well to dsc people where warranted.  I think it’s unfair to crew to make them dependent on the whim of the cruiser. 
 

re land based restaurants it’s totally different.  Kitchen, laundry and other non customer facing staff are paid by employer directly.  It’s a given you will tip about 20% more or less.  Known fact.  
 

and I’m not picking on ncl.  I find the dsc practice deceptive and unfair to crew across the entire cruise industry.  That goes for all cruise lines who bury it.  Just add it to the invoice total at booking time and make it mandatory.  Done deal.  No deceit. Crew benefits.  Cruisers know total fixed cost.  

The crew, no matter if no one paid the DSC, would still get the salary that they agreed to in their contract.  They make over and above that with the amount of DSC that is paid by the passengers.  I know if I knew I would get more from a DSC or tip, I would work harder to make sure the passenger is happy.  There are always going to be those that don't like the DSC, but it is what it is.

[PTC DAWG]

13 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

I don't care how the DSC is divided up among the crew or even if a portion is used for something else.  The crew gets some of that DSC for sure.  I take if for granted that because of the DSC the crew make very good money on a cruise ship.  Why else would they be willing to leave their families behind for many months at a time.

 

I think it's a damn shame that some people look for reasons to remove the DSC from their bill.

Well said. 

[luv2kroooz]

6 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

I don't see what the big deal is.  Most, if not all, of the major cruise lines add a service charge to your bill to cover the tip.  It's not just an NCL thing. 

 

Yes, NCL is no different with the policy to add a service charge each day. I think the "rub" comes in because there are theories whereby passengers intend for the DSC to directly benefit staff for service but in reality they may be supplementing NCLs corporate bottom line by using the DSC to reduce uniform expense, crew enrichment expense, medical insurance expense. Some people want to control where their money goes and think that directly handing the crew money accomplishes this. I know you are not one of those people because I read your post above where you mentioned you didn't care if the DSC was used for something else. We don't know because NCL and other cruise are deliberately vague about what they do with the money which creates more speculation.

 

I do think the issue is more sensitive with NCL because the service charges are higher on NCL than most other mainstream lines. Plus, you have service charges on beverages at a very high 20% versus 18% or even 15% on other cruise lines. There are still a few lines that don't even charge gratuities on promotional beverage packages offered as part of the cruise fare . So, the bottom line in my mind is that extra charges are just more visible on NCL. They are just something you have to deal with on NCL and they do add up.

 

Unless I have an issue that can't be corrected onboard, I generally leave the DSC in place. There have been times when I have decreased it, too. I used to tip bar waiters an extra buck or two from time to time, but I stopped that practice when the beverage service charge percentage went to the mandatory 20%.

 

[Trimone]

The U.K. covers all costs upfront, if you don’t want to bring any cash on board, then don’t you’ve already paid tips

[Love my butler]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:42 AM, don't-use-real-name said:

Well it is NCLs fault for levying the DSC in the first place and then saying it can optionally be reduced in part or full.

 

Forget having the guest customer being forced to TIP and adjust the tipping -

Quit using the customer as a scapegoat for less crew compensation -

Best would be let the guest customer determine what and whom needs to be tipped of the customer contact crew -

Raise or not raise the cruise fare and pay the non-guest/customer contact people adequately -

 

For those customer contact crew people Stewards Butler Concierge Host/Wait People Bartenders TIP these

employees on their own individual merits.

 

NCL sure makes it complicated in addressing the compensation given to "WE ARE FAMILY" and using the

guest customer as the agent of TIP compensation - to adjust or not to adjust - in full or in part  ---

And being a captive consumer in the process. 

 

Agree or not - NCL has brought this quirk upon itself - TIPs the DSC should not be automatically foisted on

the guest customer !!! 

  

Good points Bob.