class difference?

[Underwatr]

Cunard is already (almost) providing "free" drinks for Grills passengers on many cruises IF you're booking from the US. Well "free" if they are $12 or under.

This probably belongs in a tipping/gratuities thread, but thanks to periodic promotions my Cunard cruises in Britannia have been daily gratuities-included for the last few years.

[majortom10]

This probably belongs in a tipping/gratuities thread, but thanks to periodic promotions my Cunard cruises in Britannia have been daily gratuities-included for the last few years.

 

Lucky you. They expect UK passengers in Britannia restaurant to pay $322 for a 14nt cruise for a couple more chance of seeing a cow jump over the moon especially when they give US cruisers free gratuities.

[eroller]

Lucky you. They expect UK passengers in Britannia restaurant to pay $322 for a 14nt cruise for a couple more chance of seeing a cow jump over the moon especially when they give US cruisers free gratuities.

 

 

They certainly don't always give US bookings free gratuities, or even free drinks in the Grills. It all depends on what promos are being offered and what you book. I've seen very low flash promos in the UK that include a free hotel in NY and free air home on a QM2 crossing, and I've never seen that offered in the US. So each region gets their own promos. Sometimes one region might come out ahead on a sailing, sometimes not. It all depends.

 

Who knows, maybe Cunard will begin to remove all gratuities for UK bookings like they are doing for P&O?

[babs135]

We recently sailed on the NCL Breakaway and was gobsmacked to see in the theatre an area roped off with a sign stating the seats were only for people staying in The Haven! If that isn't class distinction what is?

 

My BIL has stated that he won't sail with Cunard because of their class system but will quite happily sail with Celebrity. When I mention their Aqua. Class he is quite dismissive. As far as he is concerned Cunard is class ridden 'full stop'. I've given up arguing with him.

[Shuffleboard Dude]

We recently sailed on the NCL Breakaway and was gobsmacked to see in the theatre an area roped off with a sign stating the seats were only for people staying in The Haven! If that isn't class distinction what is?

 

My BIL has stated that he won't sail with Cunard because of their class system but will quite happily sail with Celebrity. When I mention their Aqua. Class he is quite dismissive. As far as he is concerned Cunard is class ridden 'full stop'. I've given up arguing with him.

 

Well, the Haven is nothing else than NCL's first class!

I find it amazing how the right wording and branding can make such a difference. A lot of people seem to be easily tricked by the right PR strategy or simply don't bother to think about basic concepts who stand behind the marketeers waffle.

[eroller]

Well, the Haven is nothing else than NCL's first class!

 

.

 

 

 

Celebrity is even calling their new highest tier “Suite Class”.

 

I think Cunard used to call it “Grill Class” but got away from that terminology. Now it’s just The Grills.

[kohl57]

Even when QUEEN ELIZABETH 2 came out, The Grill was an extra cost restaurant for First Class. And had its own "secret entrance" a deck below via the most wonderful little bar. Of course, Cunard ruined it in 1972 along with so much of the ship by re-siting the Grill to the former Casino and it was just another restaurant assigned to suite passengers. It was done in the worst mid '70s "Towering Inferno" set decor, too.

 

But I like that so many find Cunard "snobbish" and "class conscious" frankly. The very notion of any cruise line today even eliciting such strong reactions proves it is actually perceived as different from others. Even for the wrong reasons. And the idea that NCL even attempts anything First Class is, to me, rather like a coveting a suite in a roadside motel. I guess they have moved on from the NCL I remember and avoided like the plague.

 

I had the distinct pleasure of flying "First" to/from QE on British Airways and trust me, they know class conscious better than Cunard... an entire separate check-in section at Terminal 5 (with hot towels!), a completely separate lounge (Concorde Room with $250 a bottle champers) and the whole experience is rather like Moses parting the Red Sea. Except one is addressed throughout as Mr. Moses.

Edited September 28, 2018 by kohl57

[eroller]

 

But I like that so many find Cunard "snobbish" and "class conscious" frankly. The very notion of any cruise line today even eliciting such strong reactions proves it is actually perceived as different from others. Even for the wrong reasons. And the idea that NCL even attempts anything First Class is, to me, rather like a coveting a suite in a roadside motel. I guess they have moved on from the NCL I remember and avoided like the plague.

 

 

 

When I sailed in The Haven on NCL it was every bit as good as the Cunard Grills, even better in many respects. You were made to feel first class in every aspect of the experience, from escorted embarkation to disembarkation. Cuisine and service were excellent all around. Cunard could actually learn a thing or two to be honest. The one thing missing was formality, but that is true of pretty much every line but Cunard. Those that think the Cunard Grills are the end all, be all of luxury cruising have a lot to learn. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it's not the best out there by a long shot.

 

Mass market lines like MSC and NCL have really studied luxury products like Silversea, Seabourn, Crystal , and Regent. These are the lines they are competing with their own luxury products like The Haven and Yacht Club. What they have accomplished is impressive. I know I was very impressed with both experiences. If anything it left me thinking Cunard probably needs to up it's game when it comes to the Grills.

 

I think the "ship within a ship" concepts of MSC and NCL have been very successful, and are even taking a small bite of market share from the luxury lines. It meets the desire of people that want a big ship experience and all the amenities that a big ship offers, but a spacious and luxury experience at the same time. We are seeing the concept expanded to other lines. It's also great for multi-generational families traveling together. Something for everyone. The grandparents, kids, grandkids, etc., all at a budget and level of service that meets individual requirements.

Edited September 28, 2018 by eroller

[Pegase90]

Anyone who thinks The Grills are snobbish and class ridden has obviously never shared a table with me in the Queens Grill restaurant! Perhaps I'm lucky to have only shared with some of the nicest, down to earth people I've ever sailed with.

 

Nothing whatsoever to do with 'class'.

 

You pay your money and you make your choice, and only you can decide if you've received value for money.

[Adammara]

Anyone who thinks The Grills are snobbish and class ridden has obviously never shared a table with me in the Queens Grill restaurant! Perhaps I'm lucky to have only shared with some of the nicest, down to earth people I've ever sailed with.

 

Nothing whatsoever to do with 'class'.

 

You pay your money and you make your choice, and only you can decide if you've received value for money.

 

Like it!, last cruise in the Grills we were chatting to a policeman, and a insurance salesman and other ordinary people. We used to cruise 2 or 3 times a year in a balcony cabin, but now choose to go once a year in Grills, mainly for the bigger cabin and the excellent food and service.

[CateW]

It’s already happening and alive and well. I’ve already mentioned MSC and NCL, and now we have lines like Celebrity and Royal Caribbean joining in. Even Carnival has the Havana cabins which offer a private lounge and pool during the day. Basically lines are providing more and more amenities fir those that are willing to pay extra. I don’t see anything wrong with it.

 

If anything I think Cunard falls a bit short with the Grills product. It should really be more inclusive like booking a suite on other lines, where drinks, gratuities, and sometimes internet and an OBC are automatically included (not part of some promo). People booking and paying for the highest level of accommodations on any line don’t want to be nickel and dimed.

 

We are doing Princess Grille for the first time in November on QM2. drinks, gratuities and OBC are included! Internet is not.

[CateW]

When I sailed in The Haven on NCL it was every bit as good as the Cunard Grills, even better in many respects. You were made to feel first class in every aspect of the experience, from escorted embarkation to disembarkation. Cuisine and service were excellent all around. Cunard could actually learn a thing or two to be honest. The one thing missing was formality, but that is true of pretty much every line but Cunard. Those that think the Cunard Grills are the end all, be all of luxury cruising have a lot to learn. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it's not the best out there by a long shot.

 

Mass market lines like MSC and NCL have really studied luxury products like Silversea, Seabourn, Crystal , and Regent. These are the lines they are competing with their own luxury products like The Haven and Yacht Club. What they have accomplished is impressive. I know I was very impressed with both experiences. If anything it left me thinking Cunard probably needs to up it's game when it comes to the Grills.

 

I think the "ship within a ship" concepts of MSC and NCL have been very successful, and are even taking a small bite of market share from the luxury lines. It meets the desire of people that want a big ship experience and all the amenities that a big ship offers, but a spacious and luxury experience at the same time. We are seeing the concept expanded to other lines. It's also great for multi-generational families traveling together. Something for everyone. The grandparents, kids, grandkids, etc., all at a budget and level of service that meets individual requirements.

 

We also have sailed in the Haven on NCL and love the ship within a ship concept, especially on the mega ships (i.e. Breakaway, Escape, Bliss, Getaway).

[eroller]

We are doing Princess Grille for the first time in November on QM2. drinks, gratuities and OBC are included! Internet is not.

 

 

QM2 is a gem. One of kind. I hope you absolutely love the ship. I think you will also enjoy the Princess Grill experience. It's very nice but I don't think you are made to feel like a VIP like you are in the Haven. Part of that is because on Cunard you are just dining at a different restaurant for the most part, and everything else is pretty much mixed. As you know in the Haven you are literally in a self contained ship within a ship. You would not have to leave the area if you didn't want to. The Haven did things like escort you on and off the ship, escort you down to reserved seating in the show lounge, etc. You won't get that VIP treatment as much on Cunard, but it's still really really nice. Overall the entire ship on Cunard will feel more like The Haven on NCL. It's fairly quiet, classy, and refined. It's one reason I don't feel the need to upgrade to the Grills with Cunard so much, because the entire ship and experience are quite nice.

 

I'm sailing in November as well on QM2, but not in the Grills.

[Shuffleboard Dude]

Like it!, last cruise in the Grills we were chatting to a policeman, and a insurance salesman and other ordinary people. We used to cruise 2 or 3 times a year in a balcony cabin, but now choose to go once a year in Grills, mainly for the bigger cabin and the excellent food and service.

 

I find Cunard in general to be a very middle class experience. Unless you are a minor nouveau riche like the current POTUS (or his opponent of 2017), then you own or rent one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_yachts_by_length

 

By coincidence - or maybe not, there are a "Queen Miri" (!) and a "Carinthia VII" among these vessels.

[VintageCCG]

I find Cunard in general to be a very middle class experience. Unless you are a minor nouveau riche like the current POTUS (or his opponent of 2017), then you own or rent one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_yachts_by_length.

 

Don't know too many working stiffs who can afford $1000-$2000 per night fares!

But I agree, even some of the wealthier passengers I encountered seemed to lack class.

And the Cunard experience, while inarguably pleasant, at times failed to meet the refined standards that the company purports to offer.

[CateW]

QM2 is a gem. One of kind. I hope you absolutely love the ship. I think you will also enjoy the Princess Grill experience. It's very nice but I don't think you are made to feel like a VIP like you are in the Haven. Part of that is because on Cunard you are just dining at a different restaurant for the most part, and everything else is pretty much mixed. As you know in the Haven you are literally in a self contained ship within a ship. You would not have to leave the area if you didn't want to. The Haven did things like escort you on and off the ship, escort you down to reserved seating in the show lounge, etc. You won't get that VIP treatment as much on Cunard, but it's still really really nice. Overall the entire ship on Cunard will feel more like The Haven on NCL. It's fairly quiet, classy, and refined. It's one reason I don't feel the need to upgrade to the Grills with Cunard so much, because the entire ship and experience are quite nice.

 

I'm sailing in November as well on QM2, but not in the Grills.

 

This will be out 8th cruise on QM2, we've done balcony and Brittania Club in the past and loved them all. There was a pretty significant price drop on our cruise (11/25 Caribbean, are you on that cruise?) so I thought this would be a good opportunity to try it. Then we are on the Escape in January. I have been sick most of this year (now, thankfully recovered) and am not wasting any time getting back into cruising and travel! To be honest, when on NCL if someone asks what cabin we are in I usually whisper The Haven. I love quiet and privacy of the Haven but don't need the fanfare:'). On our last cruise, which was 7 days to Bermuda there was a younger crowd carrying the phone around and calling the butler for every little thing. It was embarrassing! Looking forward to the PG experience, we like the flexibility of anytime dining. In Brittania 6:00 too early; 8:30 a little too late. Even 8:00 would be better.

[eroller]

This will be out 8th cruise on QM2, we've done balcony and Brittania Club in the past and loved them all. There was a pretty significant price drop on our cruise (11/25 Caribbean, are you on that cruise?) so I thought this would be a good opportunity to try it. Then we are on the Escape in January. I have been sick most of this year (now, thankfully recovered) and am not wasting any time getting back into cruising and travel! To be honest, when on NCL if someone asks what cabin we are in I usually whisper The Haven. I love quiet and privacy of the Haven but don't need the fanfare:'). On our last cruise, which was 7 days to Bermuda there was a younger crowd carrying the phone around and calling the butler for every little thing. It was embarrassing! Looking forward to the PG experience, we like the flexibility of anytime dining. In Brittania 6:00 too early; 8:30 a little too late. Even 8:00 would be better.

 

 

I've been really lucky to have enjoyed my share of butlers on ships. Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, MSC, NCL, Oceania, Azamara, and maybe a couple others I have forgotten. Anyway I never use them. My husband and I are just not butler people. I like to do things on my own when possible. I guess it's nice they are around but they are certainly not why I book a suite. I know others that love them though. On a few cruises I've actually had the butlers practically beg us to give them something to do. Nope. Didn't happen. LOL I know there are others that constantly bother them for every little thing. That is not us and I feel those people keep them busy enough.

 

I'll miss you on QM2. I'll be on earlier in November. Eastbound crossing. Looking forward to it. Just plain steerage this time which is fine by me.

[Shuffleboard Dude]

Don't know too many working stiffs who can afford $1000-$2000 per night fares!

But I agree, even some of the wealthier passengers I encountered seemed to lack class.

And the Cunard experience, while inarguably pleasant, at times failed to meet the refined standards that the company purports to offer.

 

Well, yes there aren't many, but there are quite a few. If my count is right, then there are 172 cabins in the grills (96 QG, 76 PG) - or 344 passengers. This isn't much compared to the total of 2705 passengers.

 

I find it funny that you consider the term class outdated but think that some wealthier passengers lack class. :D

[eroller]

$$ doesn’t equal class. No question about that.

[Slugsta]

We got on of the 'leather' card holders on our very first cruise (QEII) and have used it every cruise since, whatever line we were on. And I'm looking forward to using it again on our QV 'shortie' in November :)

[soraya]

Interesting analysis about the SWS concept. I'm not sure about it, we did Aquaclass and suites on Celebrity which was nice, but not amazing. On reflection, I prefer to cruise on a ship where all the amenities are of a standard that I want rather than just parts of it. If I'm paying a lot more I think I'd prefer Silversea, Regent etc rather than the megaships.

Clearly, it's a business model that works as more companies are going that way.

[VintageCCG]

I find it funny that you consider the term class outdated but think that some wealthier passengers lack class. :D

 

 

"Class" - a group sharing the same economic or social status; social rank

"Class" - divisions of varying travel categories, each with its own price, perqs and rules

"Class" - dignified or restrained form, appearance, behaviour or style; sophistication

 

My point was that most people who book the Cunard Grill classes - almost by definition - populate the wealthiest economic classes, rather than the middle/working class professions that you had described.

 

The discussion revolved around perceptions of social/economic class and how they manifest in the segregation of one booking class from another, with Cunard almost perversely providing a more egalitarian approach than some rival brands, notwithstanding their "throwback" branding that purports to evoke the Golden Age of ocean liners, in which social status was foremost. I considered that to be a surprising characteristic of Cunard, yet commendable.

 

Most of the folks I met aboard QM2, from whatever cabin category and social stratum, were charming, pleasant people who did nothing to perpetuate the outdated notions of social class essentialism (i.e. the belief that surface differences between two groups of people or things can be explained by differences in fundamental identities).

 

Still, I did encounter a minority who demonstrated a sense of entitlement with regard to attitudes toward stewards, servers, other passengers, and other social interactions. I was quite dismayed and disgusted to overhear one group of up-ticket passengers discussing how best to avoid tipping the staff, not to mention too many incidents of snide comments, queue-jumping, etc. Thus my comment that "money can't buy class".

[fizzy1]

Spot on.

 

 

 

If you look at other cruise forums, classes on trains or planes are fine with people, but people are often outraged if, as you say, it's a ship. and actually, they are only outraged with Cunard. Other cruise lines have exactly the same arrangement, but that, for some odd reason, if perfectly okay with those same people.

 

 

 

I agree

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[eroller]

Interesting analysis about the SWS concept. I'm not sure about it, we did Aquaclass and suites on Celebrity which was nice, but not amazing. On reflection, I prefer to cruise on a ship where all the amenities are of a standard that I want rather than just parts of it. If I'm paying a lot more I think I'd prefer Silversea, Regent etc rather than the megaships.

Clearly, it's a business model that works as more companies are going that way.

 

 

I was the biggest skeptic of the ship within a ship concept until I tried it, both on NCL and MSC. I really loved it, having all the amenities of a big mega-ship available to me, but the ability to escape to the solitude and refinement of the ship within a ship. Most importantly, to escape the crowds that a mega-ship presents at will. Cruising on a ship with 5000 pax but not having to worry about getting a deck chair by the pool at noon if you wanted. That is a luxury of the ship within a ship.

 

I've also sailed on luxury lines like Silversea and Seabourn, and yes I still prefer it when the entire ship is a luxury experience instead of just a small slice, but there is a tradeoff. You give up all the big ship amenities, most importantly the night life and entertainment, and you are also in for a much older crowd generally speaking.

 

The ultra-premium tier (just below luxury) is nice too. Lines like Azamara, Oceania, and Viking Ocean. The ships are a little larger with more amenities than luxury lines, and a bit more active too, but they are less inclusive and also tend to be an older crowd with limited entertainment and nightlife.

 

That to me is the true appeal of the ship within a ship concept on mass-market mega-ships. You really get the best of both worlds and can close one off whenever you choose to.

[eroller]

Classes on trains and planes is not what classes on NCL/MSC or suite perks on Cunard are.

A plane is transportation, a cruise ship is destination.

That's the reason why.

 

 

In the case of Cunard and QM2, the ship is absolutely used as transportation in some circumstances. Those relocating to Europe or vice versa, and those wanting to relocate their pets and they don't want to fly them. On my QM2 crossings I almost end up chatting with several people that are using the ship as transport to relocate. More civilized than flying and they can bring more items with them.