Smoking is such a nuisance on cruise ships

[ColeThornton]

2 minutes ago, pete_coach said:

Whew ....from a smoking nuisance thread to .....NoX to, Particle emissions to , Co2 to, HFO to, LSOF to, Sulfur Dioxide to, perfume to, aftershave to, body lotions to, body odors to.....I think this thread has certainly run the gamut of nose attacking substances. 🙂

 

 

Indeed.   It now smells like a Dead Horse.

[Relax@Sea]

10 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Indeed.   It now smells like a Dead Horse.

For me it was an educational experience.

[ColeThornton]

3 minutes ago, Relax@Sea said:

For me it was an educational experience.

 

 

Well, hang around because the subject is re-visited weekley.   🙂

[cruiseseal]

23 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Well, hang around because the subject is re-visited weekley.   🙂

As it should be. Hopefully some cruise lines pay attention. BTW, it's a somewhat bizarre that Celebrity X is the best in this regard, even though NCL and RC cater more to families. I also noticed no one mentioned Disney (or maybe I missed it), are they smoke free?

[dalmoradie]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:29 PM, Oceangal711 said:

Thank god I live in NYC we are much more laid back. People smoke and enjoy the parks and beaches as we are outside. I guess we are all law breakers. I couldn't live anywhere that up tight. Jeez. But then again just breathing the air here is not good for your health, but hell it is the greatest city in the world.

I live in NYC in Belle Harbor right on Rockaway Beach.  There is no smoking anywhere on the beach or the boardwalk.  That rule is strictly enforced all year long.  There is also no smoking in all public parks.  

 

"Smoke-Free Parks and Beaches. To improve the beauty of the city's public outdoor spaces, and ensure an even healthier and cleaner experience for New Yorkers,smoking is prohibited within New York City's parks, beaches and pedestrian plazas."  

https://www.nycgovparks.org/facility/rules/smoke-free

[cruiseseal]

2 hours ago, dalmoradie said:

I live in NYC in Belle Harbor right on Rockaway Beach.  There is no smoking anywhere on the beach or the boardwalk.  That rule is strictly enforced all year long.  There is also no smoking in all public parks.  

 

"Smoke-Free Parks and Beaches. To improve the beauty of the city's public outdoor spaces, and ensure an even healthier and cleaner experience for New Yorkers,smoking is prohibited within New York City's parks, beaches and pedestrian plazas."  

https://www.nycgovparks.org/facility/rules/smoke-free

 

New Jersey soon to follow.

https://www.nj.gov/governor/news/news/562018/approved/20180720a.shtml

 

On a related note, Great Stirrup Cay, the NCL owned island that some people rave about, doesn't have any smoking restrictions (I learned about that when I asked the lifeguard). He said they just rely on the smokers to consider their surroundings. It can get pretty crowded on the beach, and I saw people smoke next to kids/families, instead of going off to the side. Not all smokers did that, but it just shows you that you can't rely on people to be nice.

Edited November 19, 2018 by cruiseseal

[pete_coach]

5 hours ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Well, hang around because the subject is re-visited weekley.   🙂

Gosh, if that is the case, perhaps Norwegian should pay closer attention?

[amscene1]

I personally like to smoke on my balcony, but I make sure it’s late and no ones around. I would never smoke if my neighbors were outside. 

 

If its 1am and I have a drink and my cigarette and the coast is clear I’ll do it, otherwise I’ll run up topside. 

 

As for fines, ive never been caught and don’t think I will but if I am it still won’t be my last time. 

 

[Oceangal711]

4 hours ago, dalmoradie said:

I live in NYC in Belle Harbor right on Rockaway Beach.  There is no smoking anywhere on the beach or the boardwalk.  That rule is strictly enforced all year long.  There is also no smoking in all public parks.  

 

"Smoke-Free Parks and Beaches. To improve the beauty of the city's public outdoor spaces, and ensure an even healthier and cleaner experience for New Yorkers,smoking is prohibited within New York City's parks, beaches and pedestrian plazas."  

https://www.nycgovparks.org/facility/rules/smoke-free

Sorry we smoke and drink at Breezy Point. Don't know who would enforce the law as it is a very private. We also smoke indoors at our private clubs and bars. As I said we are all law breakers. Most breaking the law are cops and fireman. Don't go to Rockaway, and I guess I won't.

[Oceangal711]

19 hours ago, cruiseseal said:

 

I believe you're completely off topic. We're not discussing pollution caused by ships, but rather, the air you breathe during the cruise. If you want to start a topic about pollution, and how we shouldn't support the cruise industry because it's bad for environment, I am sure that would be an interesting discussion, but a different one.

I think he's trying to tell that the air you breathe on a ship is polluted. Whether people are smoking or not.

[cruiseseal]

19 minutes ago, amscene1 said:

I personally like to smoke on my balcony, but I make sure it’s late and no ones around. I would never smoke if my neighbors were outside. 

 

If its 1am and I have a drink and my cigarette and the coast is clear I’ll do it, otherwise I’ll run up topside. 

 

As for fines, ive never been caught and don’t think I will but if I am it still won’t be my last time. 

 

I suppose I could make a nasty reply, but given that's what you're fishing for, I'll take the high ground instead. Many sleep with balcony door open, for that fresh ocean air, not for your cigarette smoke. BTW, the air system in ships is generally setup to pull air from outside into the cabin (negative pressure), and because of lateral wind, smoke travels along the ship and gets sucked into every open balcony room. Please don't do this anymore, both because it is against cruise rules, and because it's inconsiderate to other passengers.

 

Also, thanks for providing a good example to support a tech solution to this problem, as well as for more serious consequences (like taking people off the ship), since obviously existing policies aren't enough to dissuade some smokers.

Edited November 19, 2018 by cruiseseal

[cruiseseal]

10 minutes ago, Oceangal711 said:

I think he's trying to tell that the air you breathe on a ship is polluted. Whether people are smoking or not.

 

Exhaust doesn't go down to the ship majority of the time, and air systems have filters, so you can always go inside the ship to avoid exhaust if the ship is stationary at the port and there is some downdraft.

[Oceangal711]

2 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

 

Exhaust doesn't go down to the ship majority of the time, and air systems have filters, so you can always go inside the ship to avoid exhaust if the ship is stationary at the port and there is some downdraft.

Levels of pollution on some cruise ships' decks are worse than in the world's most polluted cities

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/pollution-cruise-ships-po-oceana-higher-piccadilly-circus-channel-4-dispatches-a7821911.html

[dalmoradie]

24 minutes ago, Oceangal711 said:

Sorry we smoke and drink at Breezy Point. Don't know who would enforce the law as it is a very private. We also smoke indoors at our private clubs and bars. As I said we are all law breakers. Most breaking the law are cops and fireman. Don't go to Rockaway, and I guess I won't.

Ah, yes, Breezy point is quite the private town.  So glad it recovered quite nicely after Sandy.

[Oceangal711]

1 minute ago, dalmoradie said:

Ah, yes, Breezy point is quite the private town.  So glad it recovered quite nicely after Sandy.

Thanks it was rough a lot of the older people cashed in and left so sad. My parents gave up their bungalow and moved to the middle of Queens far, far from the water. 

[cruiseseal]

21 minutes ago, Oceangal711 said:

Levels of pollution on some cruise ships' decks are worse than in the world's most polluted cities

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/pollution-cruise-ships-po-oceana-higher-piccadilly-circus-channel-4-dispatches-a7821911.html

 

Although I am sure every ship is different, that's still good info (seriously, not being facetious), I'll try to avoid the part of the deck downwind of the funnels in the future (which is generally a small portion of the deck, but still). Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't get to lower decks, and most of the ship, most of the time. Maybe we can put all the smokers there, since they don't care about particulates in their lungs anyway.

 

"The device found that the air on the deck downwind of, and directly next to the ship's funnels, had 84,000 ultra-fine particulates per cubic centimetre. 

Directly next to the funnels on the deck, the numbers rocketed to 144,000 with a peak at 226,000."

Edited November 19, 2018 by cruiseseal

[chengkp75]

44 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

 Many sleep with balcony door open, for that fresh ocean air, not for your cigarette smoke.

BTW, leaving the balcony door open affects the air conditioning for surrounding cabins, causing them to get warmer, and this is personally more annoying than a balcony smoker.

44 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

 

BTW, the air system in ships is generally setup to pull air from outside into the cabin (negative pressure), and because of lateral wind, smoke travels along the ship and gets sucked into every open balcony room. Please don't do this anymore, both because it is against cruise rules, and because it's inconsiderate to other passengers.

BTW, the air system is not set up for negative pressure.  If that were the case, then every time a door to the open deck was opened, there would be a rush of air into the ship.  Yes, fans do draw air into the ship, but this is balanced by the exhaust fans removing air from bathrooms and public spaces.  Public spaces generally have balanced air pressure, and cabins have positive pressure, designed that way to prevent smoke entering a cabin from the passageways.  This can be shown by doing what you propose, opening the balcony door, and then opening the passageway door.  There will be a hurricane blast of air out the balcony door.  So, no, smoke would not be drawn into balcony cabins aft of the smoker, just the reverse in fact.

44 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

 

Also, thanks for providing a good example to support a tech solution to this problem, as well as for more serious consequences (like taking people off the ship), since obviously existing policies aren't enough to dissuade some smokers.

Most of the air in your cabin is recirculated.  80% of the cabin volume is recirculated strictly from the cabin and back to the cabin.  20% of the cabin volume is exhausted by the bathroom fan and under the doorway into the passageway, and this is balanced by 20% of the cabin volume (supplied at a higher pressure) supplied from outside fresh air.

[cruiseseal]

27 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

BTW, leaving the balcony door open affects the air conditioning for surrounding cabins, causing them to get warmer, and this is personally more annoying than a balcony smoker.

Don't believe you. The air from cabin doesn't circulate back into air conditioning of other cabins. Air conditioning can be set to make you room super cold, so you must be a penguin 🙂

 

27 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

BTW, the air system is not set up for negative pressure.  If that were the case, then every time a door to the open deck was opened, there would be a rush of air into the ship.  Yes, fans do draw air into the ship, but this is balanced by the exhaust fans removing air from bathrooms and public spaces.  Public spaces generally have balanced air pressure, and cabins have positive pressure, designed that way to prevent smoke entering a cabin from the passageways.  This can be shown by doing what you propose, opening the balcony door, and then opening the passageway door.  There will be a hurricane blast of air out the balcony door.  So, no, smoke would not be drawn into balcony cabins aft of the smoker, just the reverse in fact.

You must have been on different ship. On every ship I was on, there was always a rush of air into the hallway when I open the door with balcony open. Sometimes it is subtle, sometimes it's very strong, but I never experienced air rushing into the room from the hallway. Rooms have same pressure as the ship, because room doors are not air-tight and neither are balcony doors, even if air conditioning is on, it's nothing compared to the ships general air intake system, and ship has to have negative pressure to prevent air from going from the passage ways into the room. When our neighbor was smoking on the balcony, the smell was coming in easily with the balcony door closed.

 

27 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Most of the air in your cabin is recirculated.  80% of the cabin volume is recirculated strictly from the cabin and back to the cabin.  20% of the cabin volume is exhausted by the bathroom fan and under the doorway into the passageway, and this is balanced by 20% of the cabin volume (supplied at a higher pressure) supplied from outside fresh air.

You just explained why cabins have negative pressure, generated by ships air systems, not by in-cabin air system. Please think about it some more.

 

BTW, what's the point of a balcony room exactly, if you don't open your balcony door for some fresh air? It seems silly to me, but I guess to each their own. Of course, once again, it doesn't matter, because my room smelled like smoke regardless of whether the balcony door was closed or open. In fact, I first noticed the smoke when the door was closed.

Edited November 19, 2018 by cruiseseal

[NLH Arizona]

8 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

Don't believe you. The air from cabin doesn't circulate back into air conditioning of other cabins. Air conditioning can be set to make you room super cold, so you must be a penguin 🙂

 

 

FYI, the poster you don't believe is a Chief Engineer, who is very knowledgable about the workings of the ships, so I believe he knows more than most.

Edited November 19, 2018 by NLH Arizona

[cruiseseal]

10 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

FYI, the poster you don't believe is a Chief Engineer, who is very knowledgable about the workings of the ships, so I believe he knows more than most.

 

I was not a Chief Engineer (I assume you mean on a ship), but have enough physics and engineering knowledge to translate my observations into understanding how things work. I know what I know about about the ships I was on. The air never came in from the hallway, it was always came in from the balcony, regardless of whether my room door was closed or open, that's negative pressure (maybe he's calling it positive pressure, and we're agreeing, but whatever).

 

Also, if air from our room was mixed with air coming into neighbor's room (through air conditioning), I would smell smoke from air conditioning, which I didn't, and neighbor's rooms reeked when I walked by it when their door was open. I even overheard the room attendant talking about them smoking in the bathroom.

 

Actually, I agree that cabins may have slight positive pressure relative to the hallway, but they have negative pressure relative to outside.

Edited November 19, 2018 by cruiseseal

[chengkp75]

33 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

Don't believe you. The air from cabin doesn't circulate back into air conditioning of other cabins. Air conditioning can be set to make you room super cold, so you must be a penguin 🙂

Never said it circulated back to "other cabins".  It doesn't.  It is drawn from your cabin to an air handler that cools it, and is then returned to your cabin.  This is what the thermostat in your cabin controls.

 

Quote

You must have been on different ship. On every ship I was on, there was always a rush of air into the hallway when I open the door with balcony open. Sometimes it is subtle, sometimes it's very strong, but I never experienced air rushing into the room from the hallway. Rooms have same pressure as the ship, because room doors are not air-tight and neither are balcony doors, even if air conditioning is on, it's nothing compared to the ships general air intake system, and ship has to have negative pressure to prevent air from going from the passage ways into the room. When our neighbor was smoking on the balcony, the smell was coming in easily with the balcony door closed.

Ah, that would be balancing your 3 cruises against my 43 years as a ship's engineer, who works on ship's AC systems all the time.  Cabins do not have "the same pressure" as the ship, and the doors being non-air tight is designed for this.   This is so the overpressure sent to the cabin has a place to leave the cabin, flowing under the door to the passageway, which is kept at a lower pressure than the cabins, as I've said, to keep smoke in the passageway from entering the cabins.  This is a SOLAS requirement.  You yourself say that the ship has "negative pressure to prevent air from going from the passage ways into the room".  Again, I will ask you, when you open a door from the Pool deck to the buffet, or wherever, does a rush of air flow into the ship?  If not, then the ship is not at "negative" pressure, it is at atmospheric pressure.  The fans that supply fresh air to the cabins and public spaces push more air than the small ducts can take at atmospheric pressure, so the delivery pressure of this air is increased, and when it enters the cabin from the duct, it expands and raises the cabin pressure above the outside.

Quote

 

You just explained why cabins have negative pressure, generated by ships air systems, not by in-cabin air system. Please think about it some more.

How's that?  Let's do the math.  The cabin recirculation system draws 80% of the cabin volume (over time) out of the cabin, and the bathroom exhaust and under door crack, take 20% of the cabin volume out (to me, 80% plus 20% is 100% of the volume out, following me?).  Now, the cabin recirculation system sends that 80% of the cabin volume back to the cabin, and the fresh air supply brings 20% of the cabin volume to the cabin (now, correct me if I'm wrong, but 80% plus 20% is 100% supplied back to the cabin).  Therefore, if everything was working at atmospheric pressure, there would be atmospheric pressure in the cabin, since the air taken out equals the air sent in.  However, that pesky fresh air supply is at a higher pressure, and when released from the confines of the ductwork, it expands to fill the cabin, and raises the pressure.  The fresh air supply fan provides 20% of cabin volume at the pressure it is supplied at, which is a greater volume than 20% of cabin volume when it expands in the cabin, so let's say it is 22% at cabin pressure.  You now have 102% of the cabin volume in 100% of the cabin, so you have overpressure, and the excess bleeds off under the door to the passageway.

 

But that's about the extent of the maritime AC system that I'm going to take the time to explain at this time.  I've done it enough over the years explaining why leaving the balcony doors open makes your neighbors hot on many, many threads.

 

And, by the by, my 4 years as a cruise ship Chief Engineer were with NCL, so I am intimately familiar with the operations of NCL's AC systems in particular.

Edited November 19, 2018 by chengkp75

[SteveH2508]

Chengkp75

 

Thank you for the informed and knowledgeable explanations, to cut through the BS agenda that some posters seem to have. They clearly do not understand that you have more knowledge than they ever will have, but, because it does not fit with their agenda, they are walking around with their fingers in their ears going 'na-na-na' (or waving their arms around wafting smoke away - whatever).

 

I love the 'keep the balcony door open and sod the rest' attitude on the one hand - but - one whiff of tobacco smoke and the world is going to end on the other hand. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by SteveH2508

[cruiseseal]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

[long interesting explanation of ship's AC system]

 

But that's about the extent of the maritime AC system that I'm going to take the time to explain at this time.  I've done it enough over the years explaining why leaving the balcony doors open makes your neighbors hot on many, many threads.

 

I appreciate your explanation, but it doesn't align with my experience. Yes, the cold air does rush in when doors open to pool deck on cold days.

 

You explained room's slight positive pressure relative to ship, but did not explain why air is pulled from the outside through non-airtight balcony. I know what I experienced on three ships I've been on (especially with "special" folks smoking on the balconies), and it doesn't line up with your assertion that ship is at same exact pressure as outside. I assert that room/ship is at slight negative pressure relative to outside. Perhaps it has to do with wind/motion/etc., which creates higher than atmospheric pressure along the side of the ship, I don't know for sure, but lack of explanation doesn't change facts.

[cruiseseal]

6 minutes ago, SteveH2508 said:

Chengkp75

 

Thank you for the informed and knowledgeable explanations, to cut through the BS agenda that some posters seem to have. They clearly do not understand that you have more knowledge than they ever will have, but, because it does not fit with their agenda, they are walking around with their fingers in their ears going 'na-na-na' (or waving their arms around wafting smoke away - whatever).

 

I love the 'keep the balcony door open and sod the rest' attitude on the one hand - but - one whiff of tobacco smoke and the world is going to end on the other hand. 

 

I have no way to validate anyone credentials on this this forum (or yours), or their agenda. I am sure you are a smoker and enjoyed his explanation, but the fact remains, smoke comes in regardless of whether balcony door is open or closed, and balcony cabins exist for those who enjoy the fresh ocean air, and not the stink of cigarettes or resulting stink of their cabin/clothes.

[Two Wheels Only]

I was still having fun with the 83,000 million cars.