Smoking is such a nuisance on cruise ships

[BirdTravels]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:56 PM, Newleno said:

Empirical evidence with statistical significance indicates NCL would make more money if they banned smokers,  ncl should do some studies/trials to determine if the program would  increase revenue.  If they adopted such a strategy because of evidence then anyone caught smoking should be kicked off the ship at the next port.  I would not be surprised if the study indicated over a 93% reductory therefore concluding it would be in the best interest of ncl corp to BAN smokers from their ships

Do you remember when the Norwegian Escape was smoke-free inside? No smoke in the casino? No smoke in the 678 core?

 

The empirical evidence with statistical significance indicated that they were losing money by banning indoor smoking. I was there on November 11, 2015 when they carted in boxes of ash trays and began placing them out all over the casino. 

[pspercy]

8 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

Sure, when you can keep your smoke on your balcony.  I have no desire for your smoke to ruin my enjoyment of my balcony.  I am never able to go in a casino, anywhere, because of the smoke issue.  

 

 

Celebrity =X= is no smoking anywhere indoors, including the casino 😁

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

No need to go into so much personal info!  Relax!  LOL!  Marijuana is being legalized everywhere.  Let's see how this plays out in the future.  Until then, let smokers have their space.  They follow the rules (hopefully) where or where they cannot smoke. 

I foresee this going into a totally different direction with the Marijuana debate.  Now Cruise Lines will have to accommodate Marijuana? Maybe a few years out, but it will definitely be a debate here on CC...

 

JMO

Well, given that the maritime industry as a whole is one of the tightest regulated industries for drug and alcohol abuse, until the international maritime laws change, there won't be any marijuana debate, though it is brought up every now and again here on CC.  Additionally, since the NCL ships are flagged in the Bahamas, and not only is marijuana illegal in the Bahamas, but they make quite a deal about enforcing it, and the ship is under the jurisdiction of the flag state (Bahamas), not any less restrictive port state or country where passengers come from, in the case of NCL, I really doubt there will be any marijuana allowed onboard within the next two decades.

[momofmab]

Smoking has never ruined a cruise for me, but then again I don't usually visit the casino.  However, exposure to secondhand smoke can be more serious than just the annoyance of the smell.  The U.S. has done a fairly good job in banning smoking in most public areas and limiting the amount of situations where non-smokers have to walk through clouds of cigarette smoke.  Other than the casinos, I think the cruise ships (that I have been on) have done a pretty good job with designated smoking areas that you don't have to necessarily walk through to get to other areas of the ship (I took quick note of the designated smoking area on the pool deck of Oasis and was able to avoid it for the remainder of my cruise).  Certainly work needs to be done on those ships with repeated complaints of cigarette smoke from the casino infiltrating (non-smoking) common areas.

 

(from cancerdotgov)

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. National Toxicology Program, the U.S. Surgeon General, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer have all classified secondhand smoke as a known human carcinogen (a cancer-causing agent) 

Inhaling secondhand smoke causes lung cancer in nonsmoking adults. Approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths occur each year among adult nonsmokers in the United States as a result of exposure to secondhand smoke. 

Some research also suggests that secondhand smoke may increase the risk of breast cancer, nasal sinus cavity cancer, and nasopharyngeal cancer in adults and the risk of leukemia, lymphoma, and brain tumors in children. Additional research is needed to learn whether a link exists between secondhand smoke exposure and these cancers.

 

[xcell]

I'm going to eat a can of beans and fart towards my smoking balcony neighbors -- hope the wind goes the right direction -- and see how they like that...

[pete_coach]

18 hours ago, cb at sea said:

Smoking used to be allowed EVERYWHERE....in airplanes, in stores...even in HOSPITALS!   Yes, in today's society, smoking is annoying, but when everyone (or so it seemed) was doing it,  it was tolerated.  In some places, it's still allowed, in clubs and bars!

 

If smokers stuck to the "allowed" areas, non-smokers could avoid them much better!

Actually, it is not just a matter of annoying. I was in the aviation business and I can tell you that banning smoking from aircraft saved the airline buisness millions upon millions of dollars on maintenance and refurbishment almost immediately after the ban. The same goes for Hospitals.

I too, live in a Canadian Province where smoking is basically banned in public, public institutions and anywhere people gather.

Not to point fingers or demean in any way but I find that there are a few Countries where smoking is almost still a right and many many people still smoke. The US is one of them and since NCL and lines sailing the Caribbean cater very much to the American market, I cannot see banning smoking in any of those ships.

I can see it happening on the Mediterranean cruises fairly soon as it is becoming less tolerant to smoking in Europe.

[JamieLogical]

All of you talking about the strong smell of hairspray/perfume or how rude other passengers can be at the buffet or elevators are missing the point. This isn't about rudeness or annoyance. It's about HEALTH. Rude people aren't going to physically harm you. Bad smells aren't going to physically harm you. Second-hand smoke does real and lasting damage to people's health.

[ColeThornton]

1 hour ago, xcell said:

I'm going to eat a can of beans and fart towards my smoking balcony neighbors -- hope the wind goes the right direction -- and see how they like that...

 

 

Keep some toilet paper handy.

[xcell]

But to be serious -- whether being rude, smoking, farting, making noises at godawful hours of the day, etc...  I think we just need to be considerate to those around you.

 

If you are on your balcony smoking and no one is around -- then I'm all for it. But then if people in your neighboring balcony comes out, there are kids looking and enjoying the site or whatever, just be considerate and stop for a while. Is that too much to ask? Do you really need that smoke? (for some it would). But let's do the reverse, those kids are now making a lot of noise, they paid for their room, shouldn't they enjoy it? Or would you like if the parents told them to bring it down a notch because you are disturbing the neighbors? 

 

We all share the same space -- being considerate to others will go a long way.....

[NLH Arizona]

11 minutes ago, xcell said:

But to be serious -- whether being rude, smoking, farting, making noises at godawful hours of the day, etc...  I think we just need to be considerate to those around you.

 

If you are on your balcony smoking and no one is around -- then I'm all for it. But then if people in your neighboring balcony comes out, there are kids looking and enjoying the site or whatever, just be considerate and stop for a while. Is that too much to ask? Do you really need that smoke? (for some it would). But let's do the reverse, those kids are now making a lot of noise, they paid for their room, shouldn't they enjoy it? Or would you like if the parents told them to bring it down a notch because you are disturbing the neighbors? 

 

We all share the same space -- being considerate to others will go a long way.....

I somewhat agree, but isn't there a difference in someone breaking a rule by smoking and children enjoying themselves?  What I agree is that parents should be more considerate and teach their children to be considerate with the noise level, but totally disagree with thinking it is okay for someone to smoke on their balcony.  One I would report, the other I would tolerate.

Edited November 17, 2018 by NLH Arizona

[jpcdds6]

I think 5:45am chair hogs, obnoxious passengers in the theater, bars and restaurants, unruly kids running amok with no parental supervision, enormous tour groups that basically do what they wish onboard without fear, cancelled itineraries, no Maine lobster,  complaining passengers, and getting into port after Anthem of the Seas, more of a nuisance.

Edited November 17, 2018 by jpcdds6

[Phaedrus78]

"I'm sorry sir, but the biopsy shows you have stage 4 lung cancer."

 

"Damn!  If only I hadn't had to walk past that casino on the cruise ship!"

 

I'm not a doctor, but I feel like that if the secondhand smoke from someone having a cigarette on their balcony causes you to get cancer or emphysema, you might have been fairly predisposed to those conditions anyway.

[cruiseseal]

35 minutes ago, jpcdds6 said:

I think 5:45am chair hogs, obnoxious passengers in the theater, bars and restaurants, unruly kids running amok with no parental supervision, enormous tour groups that basically do what they wish onboard without fear, cancelled itineraries, no Maine lobster,  complaining passengers, and getting into port after Anthem of the Seas, more of a nuisance.

 

There are lots of nuisances, that's true, but in my limited experience (3 cruises), I didn't really have any significant problems with any of these. Smoking was the only problem I couldn't get away from, even in my cabin.

 

This thread has degenerated a bit into anti-smoking thread, which wasn't the point. Although I'd gladly pay 15% premium to sail on a smoke-free ship, until that happens, I think it's totally possible to design ships where smokers can enjoy themselves without making others' lives miserable.

Edited November 17, 2018 by cruiseseal

[cruiseseal]

1 minute ago, Phaedrus78 said:

"I'm sorry sir, but the biopsy shows you have stage 4 lung cancer."

 

"Damn!  If only I hadn't had to walk past that casino on the cruise ship!"

 

I'm not a doctor, but I feel like that if the secondhand smoke from someone having a cigarette on their balcony causes you to get cancer or emphysema, you might have been fairly predisposed to those conditions anyway.

 

You're right, if you're just walking through the casino once in a while, it's not a big deal from health perspective. However, the smell is absolutely revolting to many people, in addition, many have health issues and can become physically ill if they are exposed to second-hand smoke. You are effectively banning those people from using large areas of the ship, and on some ships, those areas include restaurants and entertainment which is a big part of what you pay for when you go on a cruise. There are already examples of ships/cruise lines (Bliss, Celebrity X ships, etc.) that manage this issue better, and hopefully we'll see more positive changes in the future.

[NLH Arizona]

31 minutes ago, jpcdds6 said:

I think 5:45am chair hogs, obnoxious passengers in the theater, bars and restaurants, unruly kids running amok with no parental supervision, enormous tour groups that basically do what they wish onboard without fear, cancelled itineraries, no Maine lobster,  complaining passengers, and getting into port after Anthem of the Seas, more of a nuisance.

I agree, but with the exception of chair hogs, there are no rules against the things you mentioned, so until there are rules against them, we all will have to deal with them, same with the smell of someone's perfume, hair spray, etc.  There is a rule about smoking on one's balacony.

[TruckerDave]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:56 PM, Newleno said:

Empirical evidence with statistical significance indicates NCL would make more money if they banned smokers,  ncl should do some studies/trials to determine if the program would  increase revenue.  If they adopted such a strategy because of evidence then anyone caught smoking should be kicked off the ship at the next port.  I would not be surprised if the study indicated over a 93% reductory therefore concluding it would be in the best interest of ncl corp to BAN smokers from their ships

NCL, and every other cruise line, is a for profit company and are in business to make money. If they thought for one second they would/could make more money by going smoke free they would do it in a second.  Where is this "study" you are referring to?  Just because you think or believe something doesn't make it a fact. 

[Phaedrus78]

48 minutes ago, cruiseseal said:

 

You're right, if you're just walking through the casino once in a while, it's not a big deal from health perspective. However, the smell is absolutely revolting to many people, in addition, many have health issues and can become physically ill if they are exposed to second-hand smoke. You are effectively banning those people from using large areas of the ship, and on some ships, those areas include restaurants and entertainment which is a big part of what you pay for when you go on a cruise. There are already examples of ships/cruise lines (Bliss, Celebrity X ships, etc.) that manage this issue better, and hopefully we'll see more positive changes in the future.

 

Oh, I hear you.  The smell thing I totally understand, and that's a legitimate complaint.  I also understand that some people, due to other health issues, may have legitimate concerns.

 

I just feel like the BUT SECONDHAND SMOKE KILLS folks might need to pump the brakes a little bit.

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, Phaedrus78 said:

I'm not a doctor, but I feel like that if the secondhand smoke from someone having a cigarette on their balcony causes you to get cancer or emphysema, you might have been fairly predisposed to those conditions anyway.

 

 

"Since the 1964 Surgeon General’s Report, 2.5 million adults who were nonsmokers died because they breathed secondhand smoke." -

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/health_effects/index.htm

 

Obviously, one time exposure to a balcony smoker won't instantly kill anyone but the dangers of secondhand smoke are irrefutable.

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Two Wheels Only

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, Phaedrus78 said:

I just feel like the BUT SECONDHAND SMOKE KILLS folks might need to pump the brakes a little bit

 

How many thousands of non-smokers need to die from secondhand smoke for it to be important?

[PTC DAWG]

88% of stats are made up. 

[cruiseseal]

2 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

How many thousands of non-smokers need to die from secondhand smoke for it to be important?

I think there is no reason to derail this thread with a health debate. If you booked a hotel for your vacation, and it turns out it's next to a smelly garbage dump, no one expects you to justify your displeasure by proving that it's a health hazard.

[momofmab]

But smoking IS a health issue, cruiseseal - for those doing it and those inhaling their smoke.  And you yourself wished for "fresh, clean air" on your cruise, so it sounds like it's more than a "smell issue" for you, too.  There are many people with health issues that are adversely affected by secondhand smoke too (COPD, Asthma, Cystic Fibrosis to name a few).  

 

And perhaps walking through a smoky casino one time won't cause lung cancer - but most of us from earlier generations have accumulated YEARS of being exposed via our smoking parents, airlines, restaurants, work places, etc., so walking through a smoky casino just piles on what's already there.  And how about the newest generations, who came after the public non-smoking laws were enacted?  Shouldn't they have the right not to be exposed when they're in a public place?

 

 

[chengkp75]

35 minutes ago, momofmab said:

But smoking IS a health issue, cruiseseal - for those doing it and those inhaling their smoke.  And you yourself wished for "fresh, clean air" on your cruise, so it sounds like it's more than a "smell issue" for you, too.  There are many people with health issues that are adversely affected by secondhand smoke too (COPD, Asthma, Cystic Fibrosis to name a few).  

 

And perhaps walking through a smoky casino one time won't cause lung cancer - but most of us from earlier generations have accumulated YEARS of being exposed via our smoking parents, airlines, restaurants, work places, etc., so walking through a smoky casino just piles on what's already there.  And how about the newest generations, who came after the public non-smoking laws were enacted?  Shouldn't they have the right not to be exposed when they're in a public place?

 

 

While that may be a "right" under US mores and customs, you must remember that when on a cruise ship, you are no longer in the US, even when docked in a US port.  This is just like saying that all public spaces in Italy should be non-smoking, because it is that way in the US.  As I've said before, if you want the full protection of US laws, you have to cruise on US flag ships.

[Oceangal711]

1 hour ago, momofmab said:

But smoking IS a health issue, cruiseseal - for those doing it and those inhaling their smoke.  And you yourself wished for "fresh, clean air" on your cruise, so it sounds like it's more than a "smell issue" for you, too.  There are many people with health issues that are adversely affected by secondhand smoke too (COPD, Asthma, Cystic Fibrosis to name a few).  

 

And perhaps walking through a smoky casino one time won't cause lung cancer - but most of us from earlier generations have accumulated YEARS of being exposed via our smoking parents, airlines, restaurants, work places, etc., so walking through a smoky casino just piles on what's already there.  And how about the newest generations, who came after the public non-smoking laws were enacted?  Shouldn't they have the right not to be exposed when they're in a public place?

 

 

while passengers hope to escape the dirty air of cities for some fresh sea air, the investigation found cruise ships are having a negative impact on the environment. One cruise ship can emit as much particulate matter as a million cars in a day. Levels of pollution on some cruise ships' decks are worse than in the world's most polluted cities. Sorry not so fresh or clean anywhere on a cruise.

[fshagan]

9 hours ago, pete_coach said:

Not to point fingers or demean in any way but I find that there are a few Countries where smoking is almost still a right and many many people still smoke. The US is one of them and since NCL and lines sailing the Caribbean cater very much to the American market, I cannot see banning smoking in any of those ships.

 

Like your provinces, we have states where smokers have more or less freedom than in other states. I live in California and we're pretty strict here. Smoking in bars and restaurants has been banned since 1998. Right now, you cannot smoke within 20' of a doorway or window no matter where you are outside. Beaches, parks and other public places are non-smoking, but this depends on the city laws. You can be cited for smoking in a private vehicle if your children under 18 are in the car (my understanding is they won't pull you over for it, but will add the infraction to your ticket if you are pulled over).