HAL vs Celebrity?

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, RDC1 said:

Cruise lines have very limited pricing power.  As a result when they do raise prices, especially when they do more  than their competition, the impact can be severe.  As long as their competition is making cuts HAL will as well.  Actually with the HAL ship sizes, there is even more pricing pressure on HAL as their competition has substantial ship size cost efficiency advantages.

 

While that is certainly true, I still see other cruise lines raising their rates in innovative ways.

 

I see Celebrity as one of HAL's most direct competitors, and they seem (on the whole) to be raising their fares, if not purely via the base fare then by the number of fares that they sell at a higher price point which include their chief perk, the beverage package.

 

Also, when Celebrity introduced Edge, the inaugural prices were sky-high. While Celebrity's initial enthusiasm for their new ship may have backfired to an extent, in the market it is often the case that when you raise rates to a very high level, and then drop them, the final resting place is still somewhat higher than the initial point....

 

There was not a similar effort at HAL to promote their new class when Koningsdam was launched. 

[RDC1]

6 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

While that is certainly true, I still see other cruise lines raising their rates in innovative ways.

 

I see Celebrity as one of HAL's most direct competitors, and they seem (on the whole) to be raising their fares, if not purely via the base fare then by the number of fares that they sell at a higher price point which include their chief perk, the beverage package.

 

Also, when Celebrity introduced Edge, the inaugural prices were sky-high. While Celebrity's initial enthusiasm for their new ship may have backfired to an extent, in the market it is often the case that when you raise rates to a very high level, and then drop them, the final resting place is still somewhat higher than the initial point....

 

There was not a similar effort at HAL to promote their new class when Koningsdam was launched. 

Celebrity has been able to raise price due to drinks being included (of course the process has simply reduced the ability of the customer to select rates without the drink package), they also have been able to raise rates by increase suite related services, which has removed access to what have been formally public areas.  No thanks.

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, RDC1 said:

Celebrity has been able to raise price due to drinks being included (of course the process has simply reduced the ability of the customer to select rates without the drink package), they also have been able to raise rates by increase suite related services, which has removed access to what have been formally public areas.  No thanks.

 

I fully agree with you regarding Celebrity -- they have dropped in my rankings!  I'm just pointing out that there are innovative ways out there for cruise lines to increase their fares, by offering something more/new/different.

[OlsSalt]

7 Day Florida RT - Western Caribbean

 

Moving from lowest to highest cabin categories:

Celebrity Edge (3000 pp): $849--- $-1199---$ 1349---$3549

(These are the senior over 55 discount prices, about $100 more if under age 55)

 

Holland NS (2666pp): $521---$749--- $806 ---$1186

Holland Oosterdam (1964 pp):  $684 --- $959 ---$1091

(No senior discounts)

 

Bonus: HAL offering more interesting ports.

Edited March 20, 2019 by OlsSalt

[iancal]

Celebrity Solstice class ships new?  Perhaps compared to some HAL ships.

 

They first went into service in 2008.  I guess some might consider them to be new and gimmicky in 2017 and I suppose they are compared to oldies like Veendam, etc.    They simply deliver some of the attributes that the new generations of cruisers consider as basic requirements.

 

I do not view being in service for 10 or 11 years as new.

Edited March 20, 2019 by iancal

[iancal]

Point in time pricing comparisons are absolutely meaningless.  Prices change constantly.  The only price comparison that is valid is the price that you either lock in at just prior to final payment or the price you pay inside the final payment window.   Same itinerary, same date, same or similar ports.  All others are pointless and can be subject to gross manipulation by posters to try an prove some meaningless claim.

 

 I have no doubt that if I cherry picked some prices I could find instances of where HAL is more and less expensive than Celebrity, Princess, Carnival, etc.   

 

I could probably do the same for all of those cruise lines.  SO what would that prove?  Nothing...other than prices fluctuate and that it pays to shop and closely follow pricing.  Which we do.

Edited March 20, 2019 by iancal

[Cruzaholic41]

5 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Celebrity has a new big ugly, gimmick-laden ship and it now has to put heads in all those beds. Any publicity Celebrity can gin up for their brand is a good thing.. 

 

Considering this is a HAL vs Celebrity thread and you’ve got a lot to say on it, I’m curious what your experience is on both lines. What are your most recent HAL and Celebrity cruises?

[Caymus88]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

7 Day Florida RT - Western Caribbean

 

Moving from lowest to highest cabin categories:

Celebrity Edge (3000 pp): $849--- $-1199---$ 1349---$3549

(These are the senior over 55 discount prices, about $100 more if under age 55)

 

Holland NS (2666pp): $521---$749--- $806 ---$1186

Holland Oosterdam (1964 pp):  $684 --- $959 ---$1091

(No senior discounts)

 

Bonus: HAL offering more interesting ports.

Edge just advertised $599 for lowest cabin. 

[Hlitner]

(Just a "primer" for those that do not have a clue how to do price comparisons.  Celebrity (and some other lines) have done a fantastic job making price comparisons difficult....with all their promos.  In order to do a real comparison you must first forget about everything you hear from the cruise line :).  You need to value each amenity (including drink packages) based on their real worth to YOU!.   DW and I both enjoy adult beverages and have over 1000 cruise days which makes it easy for us to know how much we drink per cruise day.   On X we value their drink packages at $35 per passenger day (for the basic classic package) and slightly more for a premium package (I take advantage to the better packages while DW continues to drink her usual Cosmos and a few after dinner drinks).  Once you value each amenity you simply do the math and convert everything to your actual cost per person/day.  Once you subtract the value of all those amenities you can compare the cruise price to other lines, Celebrity pricing without the amenities, etc.  

 

As to Celebrity vs HAL (we are Elite Plus and also 5 Star Mariners) it is almost like apples and oranges.  And much will depend on the actual ship (especially with HAL).   At the moment we continue to book long cruises (at least 25 days) on HAL (they have the best itineraries) and have no future plans to return to Celebrity until they offer appropriate pricing.  Meanwhile, we are cruising on other lines such as MSC (yacht club) and Seabourn...both of which are must better values then what we currently see on Celebrity.

 

Hank

[iancal]

Like all other price comparisons, the only comparison that counts is the one on the date when you actually hit the buy button on the non refundable fare.

 

On one of our Med cruises we followed fares on HAL, Princess and Celebrity ships.  Prior to final the all jockeyed for position.  On the day we purchased, inside the final payment window, Celebrity was 30 percent lower than the HAL ship.  A week later HAL had reduced it’s price to the same level. 

 

What does that prove?  Nothing really except that prices fluctuate over time....outside and inside the final payment window.  

Edited March 20, 2019 by iancal

[AncientWanderer]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

7 Day Florida RT - Western Caribbean

 

Moving from lowest to highest cabin categories:

Celebrity Edge (3000 pp): $849--- $-1199---$ 1349---$3549

(These are the senior over 55 discount prices, about $100 more if under age 55)

 

Holland NS (2666pp): $521---$749--- $806 ---$1186

Holland Oosterdam (1964 pp):  $684 --- $959 ---$1091

(No senior discounts)

 

Bonus: HAL offering more interesting ports.

 

Ya know....they really do offer more interesting ports.   And another thing that isn't mentioned often is actual time in the ports.  I'm really digging in making our plans through 2020, and I don't know if this is a new thing or if I haven't noticed it before, but I'm seeing great variability in actual time in the ports, even if the port stops are the same.  When you consider that "all aboard" is even earlier than stated port times, this can make a lot of difference in the actual "value" of a port stop.   HAL is looking really good when the port hours are factored in.  

 

But this probably comes around to the main point:  HAL is really best for "travelers" who want to see the world.  If you just want to be onboard and cruise, there may be better options.

[*Miss G*]

5 hours ago, iancal said:

The NA did well in the results.  I would suppose that HAL cheerleaders would find this part of the survey incredibly accurate.

 

Do you think that HAL antagonists would find that part of the survey incredibly inaccurate?  😉

 

In all fairness, I  don’t think it’s kind... or helpful... to call others out in a derogatory way when they voice their preferences.  It’s just a conversation with different viewpoints.

[OlsSalt]

49 minutes ago, Caymus88 said:

Edge just advertised $599 for lowest cabin. 

 

Did they improve their itinerary or are they just fire-saleing their ugly, gimmick laden mega-ship. Me thinks the cruise industry may well be on the verge of over-saturaiton. 

 

One market is going boutique and upscale. One market is going large and ludicrous. HAL put their money on the wrong team and destroyed the one thing that set them uniquely apart - value cruising for travellers. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by OlsSalt

[iancal]

I believe that the NA results were accurate.  

 

We would not hesitate to cruise on NA.  Nor would we hesitate for a moment to book on numerous HAL ships.  Just not the older ones with fewer amenities or that are on the auction block.

[Aquahound]

Just now, iancal said:

I believe that the NA results were accurate.  

 

I loved my cruise on NA.  I would cruise that ship again in a heartbeat.  But put it up against a Solstice Class ship and I'll choose Solstice every time.  I just think Celebrity is a better product.....from having actually sailed both lines numerous times.  

[BarbarianPaul]

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Did they improve their itinerary or are they just fire-saleing their ugly, gimmick laden mega-ship. Me thinks the cruise industry may well be on the verge of over-saturaiton. 

 

One market is going boutique and upscale. One market is going large and ludicrous. HAL put their money on the wrong team and destroyed the one thing that set them uniquely apart - value cruising for travellers. 

We love both HAL and Celebrity, pretty much for all the reasons discussed here. For fun Caribbean cruises, we go with Celebrity, for more exotic locations, always HAL.

That said, we just returned from a week on the Edge. It’s pretty amazing. Have you actually sailed on it, and tried out the “gimmicks?” Or are you just complaining about it from a relatively uninformed standpoint?

[Aquahound]

7 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

 Have you actually sailed on it, and tried out the “gimmicks?” Or are you just complaining about it from a relatively uninformed standpoint?

 

I'm still trying to figure out if he has ever even sailed Celebrity.  It's crickets any time someone asks.  

 

[OlsSalt]

A few points:

 

1. I have sailed HAL almost exclusively; only others were Crystal and Voyages of Discovery

2. I will never sail on a 3000 passenger ship, no matter what the brand.

3. I will never sail on a Celebrity ship because it features, size and itineraries are of no interest to me.

4. It is perfectly reasonable to state the Celebrity Edge is an ugly, gimmick-laden behemoth. 

5. This is a HAL board; not a Celebrity promotional board.

6. I will never sail on the larger HAL ships, for the same reasons

7. Once the smaller, older HAL ships are gone we will seek other similar equivalents.

Edited March 21, 2019 by OlsSalt

[Cruzaholic41]

31 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

A few points:

 

1. I have sailed HAL almost exclusively; only others were Crystal and Voyages of Discovery

2. I will never sail on a 3000 passenger ship, no matter what the brand.

3. I will never sail on a Celebrity ship because it features, size and itineraries are of no interest to me.

 

So you’ve posted 11 times on a HAL vs Celebrity comparison thread and you’ve never sailed Celebrity. You really don’t see how that’s a little odd?  

 

Never mind. I’m sure you won’t. Rah, rah HAL!

[BarbarianPaul]

27 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

A few points:

 

1. I have sailed HAL almost exclusively; only others were Crystal and Voyages of Discovery

2. I will never sail on a 3000 passenger ship, no matter what the brand.

3. I will never sail on a Celebrity ship because it features, size and itineraries are of no interest to me.

4. It is perfectly reasonable to state the Celebrity Edge is an ugly, gimmick-laden behemoth. 

5. This is a HAL board; not a Celebrity promotional board.

6. I will never sail on the larger HAL ships, for the same reasons

7. Once the smaller, older HAL ships are gone we will seek other similar equivalents.

One of the reasons we loved the Edge was that it didn’t feel crowded at all, unlike some of the smaller HA ships. And the huge lido buffet, the Ocean View Cafe, has the best food we’ve ever had in that kind of venue, and with floor to ceiling glass windows and it’s two story ceiling, the space is spectacular. But we’ve had some wonderful cruises on many HA ships, though I wish the smaller ones’ decor didn’t seem so dated and they were better maintained.

In terms of larger HA ships, the Westerdam and Nieuw Amsterdam were both great. We’ll be on the Koningsdam next month.

 

[Hlitner]

We also find it fascinating that some posters will comment on both cruise lines and ships when they have no first-hand experience with the product.  Even though we have a few hundred days on Celebrity (and over 500 on HAL) we would not draw any conclusion about the Edge until we have actually been on the ship.  The size of the vessel is not a big deal for us (we have cruised on everything from 20 passenger to over 3600 passenger)….but is more a factor of each ship's design.  Some large ships (such as the Celebrity Solstice Class) are terrific vessels that do not feel as crowded as some of the small HAL vessels (such as the Rotterdam).   Our only negative posts about the new Edge Class has to do with the "Infinity Balcony" concept which should probably be marketed as a French Balcony...rather then a veranda (which it is NOT).  French Balconies are nothing new for those who have done River Cruises and is not a veranda (by definition).

 

As we have posted, comparing HAL and Celebrity is like Apples to Oranges...and we like both lines when they are appropriately priced.   For us, Celebrity has overpriced some of their ships (especially the Edge Class) at the same time that they have continued to cut-back on those little extras that used to make Celebrity our favorite mass market line.  Now, Celebrity is near the bottom of the heap (in our own selection process) because of numerous cut-backs which have taken away from the overall quality of the line.

 

Hank

[Caymus88]

I have been on the Edge and it’s way overpriced.

There is an ongoing sewer stench which we experienced 

and can’t be resolved

 

[Winnigirl]

I like them both - and I don't really bother trying to compare - if I'm happy and the cruise is enjoyable, that's enough for me.  I do like "Blu" in Celebrity.  We were upgraded on our last summer's cruise to Bermuda and Blu was one of the perks.   I liked the smaller dining room, the menu and the wait staff was wonderful.  On the other hand, on our cruise to Japan with HAL in October, the lecture series couldn't be beat!  So thoroughly enjoyable.  I kept thinking that school was really wasted on the young. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Winnigirl
spelling error

[JRG]

This is still one of the better Hal forum threads.   

 

I agree that It is fascinating that posters who have not sailed on Celebrity insist on chiming in on this thread.

 

The 2019 Cruisers Choice awards clearly show Celebrity dominating in the dining category.     

There are thousands of reviews which comprise the results.     

 

HAL just did not do very well in the dining ratings.    

 

[BarbarianPaul]

On 3/21/2019 at 12:00 PM, Caymus88 said:

I have been on the Edge and it’s way overpriced.

There is an ongoing sewer stench which we experienced 

and can’t be resolved

 

We sailed for a week in the eastern Caribbean in late Feb. on the Edge. There were zero issues of the nature you’re describing, and this has not come up in a single review or comment about the ship. When we’re you on the Edge? What did you like or not like? Where was your cabin?