Casino regulars - interesting tidbit on dealer tips

[erdoran]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

Do you ask your server in a land restaurant if they get to keep all their tips?  BTW, in many restaurants they share with bus persons, hostest, etc. and if they don't get a tip, they still have to payout those folks.  Also, we have no idea if the story is true or not.

But those tips go directly to the people who make your dinner special, NOT to the restaurant as a hidden source of revenue.  or is it customary for a restaurant to take a percentage of tips off the top?

 

[graphicguy]

Every once in a while these types of accusations come up with just about all the cruise lines.

 

I’ve never run into a lot of it, but every once in a while I’ll hear a steward, massage “therapist”, bartender etc complain about pay.  But, it’s very rare.....kinda like the casino dealers/pit workers with the OP.

 

Yet, talking to these folks, they all have several contracts under their belts.  So, if it’s so bad, why keep re-upping?  No one forces them to re-up.

 

That said, I’ve never heard of any remotely concrete proof that tips are being absconded, skimmed, or whatever you want to call it, from casino dealers and pit crew.  I suppose that’s something that could happen.  If so, it would be discussed with the crew before any person signs their contract.

 

Still, not buying it, though!  There’s no good reason I can think of for them to tell the passengers that “tidbit”.  Unless they are trying to garner the “pity” tip?

 

Guess I’ll keep tipping in cash to be certain, just like I do with the bartenders.  I’ve seen them put cash tips in a tip jar so they can divy them up at the end of the night.

Edited March 27, 2019 by graphicguy

[Love my butler]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:06 AM, cdnsteelman said:

Many of you are probably already aware but I had a few rather frank and detailed conversations with a dealer while waiting for the hold'em table to draw enough players on a few nights. He let it slip that the house takes 60% of dealer tips (all table games) with the remaining 40% shared among dealers and other casino staff.

Quite simply this policy is despicable by NCL. However, it does not surprise me.

[Love my butler]

13 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

What I find amazing is that someone would actually have the audacity to ask a crew member about their salary, tips, etc., especially since I’ve heard discussing this is a cruise line’s fireable offense.  Not only did they ask, they then posted it on a public website that NCL reads, even calling out the Casino Host.  Now, the poster didn’t name the ship, but it was very easy to find out by reading one of his other posts, if I could figure it out, I'm sure NCL did.    Sometimes people do more harm to crew members than help, when they ask about their compensation and then share private conversations on public websites, whether the information they were given is true or not.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.  I discuss all sorts of topics with my many crew friends.  We don't have any 'audacity' when we are having a friendly conversation.

[MrMike45]

7 hours ago, Love my butler said:

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.  I discuss all sorts of topics with my many crew friends.  We don't have any 'audacity' when we are having a friendly conversation.

 

Do you then take this private conversation/information shared from one of your crew friends, and take the time to verify it with 25 other crew workers?  

[cdnsteelman]

1 hour ago, MrMike45 said:

Do you then take this private conversation/information shared from one of your crew friends, and take the time to verify it with 25 other crew workers?

Why are you commenting when you clearly haven't read the thread?

[Takoyaki]

14 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

Why are you commenting when you clearly haven't read the thread?

why read when you can just pick bits and pieces to make your own accusations

 

On topic though I hope they were full of BS but it seems like a lie that would not be beneficial to spread.

Good thing I spent all my money buying my cruise so I cant gamble much anyway.

[MrMike45]

38 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

Why are you commenting when you clearly haven't read the thread?

 

I've actually read every single post in this thread, especially all the ones posted by you:

 

- Your initial post on Monday stated that while waiting around for a poker game to fill, a dealer let it slip that the house takes a cut of tips

 

- Later on Monday, you said that the information slipped by that dealer was confirmed by 1 host and 2 other dealers (which to me reads that you went ahead and talked to 3 other people, asking about the tip policy that was "leaked" by the initial dealer

 

- On Tuesday, you then stated that this policy was well know to ALL hosts and dealers.  So I guess your investigation continued?

 

- Finally, later on Tuesday, you then stated that 6 casinos hosts and 20+ dealers all confirmed what the initial dealer stated, that the house takes a cut.  I can only assume since there are never 6 hosts on a cruise, and 20+ dealers might be stretching it even, that you took your investigation findings and confirmed them on other cruises?  

 

Do I have something wrong?  Did you not say those things?  What did I miss reading exactly? 

Edited March 27, 2019 by MrMike45

[MrMike45]

25 minutes ago, Takoyaki said:

why read when you can just pick bits and pieces to make your own accusations

 

On topic though I hope they were full of BS but it seems like a lie that would not be beneficial to spread.

Good thing I spent all my money buying my cruise so I cant gamble much anyway.

 

Thanks for weighing in Takoyaki...I've actually responded in this thread previously though, but if you read thru everything I'm sure you saw that right?  

[Takoyaki]

9 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

 

Thanks for weighing in Takoyaki...I've actually responded in this thread previously though, but if you read thru everything I'm sure you saw that right?  

Ive read this whole thread,

and I can tell you it seems overwhelmingly apparent that either you or I have a comprehension issue with at least one statement.

 

He did not say "6 hosts and 20+dealers" corroborated his story, that was in direct reference to NHL Arizona's post saying he could get someone in trouble for this thread. He was implying that with that number of staff on a long sailing there would be no true way for NCL to know which dealer said this. They can only narrow it down to 20 dealers and 6 hosts but cannot definitively tell which one had this conversation. in fact in that same post he again says 4 people told him this.

 

cdnsteelman please correct me if that is wrong

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Takoyaki

[cdnsteelman]

5 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

Do I have something wrong?  Did you not say those things?  What did I miss reading exactly?

At no point did I ever say I that 6 casino hosts and 20 dealers confirmed anything EVER! But do you really care? Seriously? One know-it-all accused me of endangering jobs (asinine in the extreme) intimating that NCL would now carry out some interrogation and fire those guilty of discussing "compensation". As such I pointed out that the three dealers and one casino host who had spoken with me on the topic over the course of the week were but a small portion of the team of dealer and casino hosts (~6 & 20).

 

The fact remains the information was freely shared with me in the first instance and then corroborated by three others freely. Believe they were lying to me to garner extra tips (which seems counter-intuitive to me but could be plausible I guess) or believe I was told truth - I don't much care. 

 

I do believe, however, that we all have a right to know if tips meant for casino staff are partially going in to NCL coffers. If I had reason to believe the tips I was giving a server at a restaurant here in Canada were being partially diverted to a restaurant profit centre I would absolutely follow up on it. Again I DID NOT SEEK OUT THIS INFORMATION IN THE FIRST INSTANCE - IT WAS SHARED WITH ME FREELY! Further if - as Mr. know-it-all suggests - this is a fireable offence, wouldn't you think it would be odd that it was so easily and casually discussed?

 

I'll just close by saying I'm not naive nor easily fooled, I like NCL for the most part as my preferred provider (as my cruise history would indicate) but I'm not inherently and overly positive or negative about NCL... I tend to take a balanced approach. I happen to believe, on balance and based on my experience, that the information I have provided here about the house taking 60 per cent of dealer tips is very likely to be the truth. You are all free to do whatever you want with that information.

[cdnsteelman]

9 minutes ago, Takoyaki said:

cdnsteelman please correct me if that is wrong

Thanks Takoyaki for A) taking the time to read and understand and B) trying to be a voice of reason. Your interpretation of my posts is correct.

[NLH Arizona]

16 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

At no point did I ever say I that 6 casino hosts and 20 dealers confirmed anything EVER! But do you really care? Seriously? One know-it-all accused me of endangering jobs (asinine in the extreme) intimating that NCL would now carry out some interrogation and fire those guilty of discussing "compensation". As such I pointed out that the three dealers and one casino host who had spoken with me on the topic over the course of the week were but a small portion of the team of dealer and casino hosts (~6 & 20).

 

The fact remains the information was freely shared with me in the first instance and then corroborated by three others freely. Believe they were lying to me to garner extra tips (which seems counter-intuitive to me but could be plausible I guess) or believe I was told truth - I don't much care. 

 

I do believe, however, that we all have a right to know if tips meant for casino staff are partially going in to NCL coffers. If I had reason to believe the tips I was giving a server at a restaurant here in Canada were being partially diverted to a restaurant profit centre I would absolutely follow up on it. Again I DID NOT SEEK OUT THIS INFORMATION IN THE FIRST INSTANCE - IT WAS SHARED WITH ME FREELY! Further if - as Mr. know-it-all suggests - this is a fireable offence, wouldn't you think it would be odd that it was so easily and casually discussed?

 

I'll just close by saying I'm not naive nor easily fooled, I like NCL for the most part as my preferred provider (as my cruise history would indicate) but I'm not inherently and overly positive or negative about NCL... I tend to take a balanced approach. I happen to believe, on balance and based on my experience, that the information I have provided here about the house taking 60 per cent of dealer tips is very likely to be the truth. You are all free to do whatever you want with that information.

First off, it is Ms. Know It All.  The bottom line is you did ask casino crew members about their compensation, as you fully admitted when you said you collaborated the information with other crew members, thus asking them about their compensation and you then posted a private conversation on a public website, so that NCL can see.  

 

Also, in all the years, this is the first time anyone has heard of this.....probably because it is not true and wondering what your adgenda is about spreading this on a public website, other than to possibly get NCL employees in trouble. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[cdnsteelman]

1 minute ago, NLH Arizona said:

The bottom line is you did ask casino crew members about their compensation,

Nope - I asked if it was true that NCL takes 60% of the tips I give them. My motivation is obvious - to inform. Your motivation and vehemence leads me to believe you are an NCL insider or sympathizer trying to deflect. Classic strategy - can't attack the message, attack the messenger. Anyway - I'm done with you Ms. know-it-all.

[NLH Arizona]

6 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

Nope - I asked if it was true that NCL takes 60% of the tips I give them. My motivation is obvious - to inform. Your motivation and vehemence leads me to believe you are an NCL insider or sympathizer trying to deflect. Classic strategy - can't attack the message, attack the messenger. Anyway - I'm done with you Ms. know-it-all.

That is asking about their compensation.  Not an NCL insider, but now since you mentioned it, I'm thinking you work for a competitor and are trying to put out bad information about NCL, especially since in all these years no one has ever heard of this.  Just remember, if anything happens to any of those crew members, it is on you and you only for sharing a private conversation.  It has been fun, but I'm done with you and still SMH.

Edited March 27, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[MrMike45]

My interpretation (and others as well) is that you took the information one dealer said to you and then confirmed that with others.  I do not see any post by NLH stating 6 hosts or 20+ dealers, only the OP.  In re-reading, I guess I can see what was meant by those numbers, so I will go ahead and apologize for that part of my post.  However, the OP still stated that one dealer told him something...and one host and 2 other dealers collaborated it.  So the OP did speak to others about this, but my 6 hosts/20 dealers was incorrect...it was 1 and 2.  

 

I do not believe this is a case of any one being a know-it-all.  But some of us have cruised with NCL many many times, and spent way too much of that time in the casinos.  I cannot speak on the behalf of others, but me myself have been on 16 cruises in the past 7 years with NCL.  Everyone one, except the first, comped thru CAS, which I am merely stating to show the level of play (i.e. hours spent in the casino).  Hundreds of dealers, dozens of pit bosses and casino hosts...no one, ever, not once mentioning anything to the effect of this.  I am sure others on this thread have me trumped on their experiences and quantity of cruises.  And those doubting the OP surely would say the same that they have never heard this either.  In fact...when someone does tip, the dealers all get excited, do their little tap tap tap clap clap thing.  Even dealers at adjacent tables sitting there with no one playing get excited.  Why would that be the case, if each of them knew they were getting a small % of that tip, and furthermore, then splitting that small % between 15-20 other dealers.  Resulting in less than $0.25 for each of them on a normal $5 chip tip for a decent hand.  

 

Bottom line...it seems rather hard to believe, and quite frankly, doubtful to be accurate and true.  

[NLH Arizona]

10 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

My interpretation (and others as well) is that you took the information one dealer said to you and then confirmed that with others.  I do not see any post by NLH stating 6 hosts or 20+ dealers, only the OP.  In re-reading, I guess I can see what was meant by those numbers, so I will go ahead and apologize for that part of my post.  However, the OP still stated that one dealer told him something...and one host and 2 other dealers collaborated it.  So the OP did speak to others about this, but my 6 hosts/20 dealers was incorrect...it was 1 and 2.  

 

I do not believe this is a case of any one being a know-it-all.  But some of us have cruised with NCL many many times, and spent way too much of that time in the casinos.  I cannot speak on the behalf of others, but me myself have been on 16 cruises in the past 7 years with NCL.  Everyone one, except the first, comped thru CAS, which I am merely stating to show the level of play (i.e. hours spent in the casino).  Hundreds of dealers, dozens of pit bosses and casino hosts...no one, ever, not once mentioning anything to the effect of this.  I am sure others on this thread have me trumped on their experiences and quantity of cruises.  And those doubting the OP surely would say the same that they have never heard this either.  In fact...when someone does tip, the dealers all get excited, do their little tap tap tap clap clap thing.  Even dealers at adjacent tables sitting there with no one playing get excited.  Why would that be the case, if each of them knew they were getting a small % of that tip, and furthermore, then splitting that small % between 15-20 other dealers.  Resulting in less than $0.25 for each of them on a normal $5 chip tip for a decent hand.  

 

Bottom line...it seems rather hard to believe, and quite frankly, doubtful to be accurate and true.  

I too have been on many cruises comped through CAS and obviously have spent way too much time in the casino and have never heard such a thing.  I did ask on my first cruise, why they were tapping the table and clapping, since I've never heard or seen this in Las Vegas, and was told that it is to alert the other dealers that they got a tip, since it is split between them.  In all the years, I've been on Cruise Critic and all the years I've sailed with NCL, I've never heard what the OP is saying and trust me if it were true, there are way too many passengers who delve into the crews compensation that we would have heard this years ago.  Maybe a call to CAS is in order to ask them the questions and see what they say.

[sjbdtz]

1 hour ago, Takoyaki said:

Ive read this whole thread,

and I can tell you it seems overwhelmingly apparent that either you or I have a comprehension issue with at least one statement.

 

He did not say "6 hosts and 20+dealers" corroborated his story, that was in direct reference to NHL Arizona's post saying he could get someone in trouble for this thread. He was implying that with that number of staff on a long sailing there would be no true way for NCL to know which dealer said this. They can only narrow it down to 20 dealers and 6 hosts but cannot definitively tell which one had this conversation. in fact in that same post he again says 4 people told him this.

 

cdnsteelman please correct me if that is wrong

 

 

 

 

So that's 4 out of 20+.    Including the one who sat for a long time, assigned to the Hold'em Table.   That is NOT very difficult to solve.

 

 

.

 

[phillyguy31]

OP understand there are many reasons you are getting so much push back on this post.

1. It looks like just another DSC post dressed differently.

2 You state it came up with a person who used to work in a land based casino. That being the case why would a person leave a land base where he probably was making a lot more than on the ship.

3. you said you confirmed this with 3 other people, did you just walk up to them and ask? How did you bring this subject up to confirm it. It is hard to believe that 4 employees gave this info up so easily since they probably would get fired for talking compensation with customers. 

5. Someone else said this but this is the first time this has ever come up and I find that hard to believe.

 

My final point is...That it is very rude to ask anyone about their compensation, not only could it get them in trouble but it is non of our business. If they were not happy about it they could not resign the contract(many of which do) or not sign at all. If you don't ask you server in a restaurant how their tips are divided why should you do that on board? Do you ask if the server gets the credit card fee removed for their tip.

[K_e_short]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:32 PM, cdnsteelman said:

Why would this make anyone tip more? It would have the opposite impact.

If only $40 of a $100 tip is making it to the dealer perhaps if you tip $250 in total then you'd still be giving them the $100 you wanted to in the first place.

[Jachred]

OP: Thank you for the post.. 

 

To those that say where my money goes is none of my business..  YOU ARE WRONG!

 

He(and as I will be doing when I go on) have EVERY RIGHT to know if our money is going to the people we intend on it going to!

Asking about TIPPING and COMPENSATION are TWO Different things. He did not ask how much do you get paid, how much do you make hourly, how much do you normally get per contract.... he asked... how much of this money I am giving you do you get to keep!!  How is that not relevant information?  If I am paying someone for doing work for me... and then the bank says... I am taking 1/2 as fees but if you tell anyone you can't bank here anymore... and I only can pay using that bank..... How is it not my business??  Same thing.. 

 

THE ONLY ONE THAT BENEFITS FROM TIPPING/GRATS NOT BEING TRANSPARENT IS NCL... PERIOD.... STOP BEING NASTY PEOPLE AND PROTECTING NCL AND KEEPING THESE STAFF MEMBERS UNDERPAID, UNDER-APPRECIATED AND ABUSED.

 

Also since you think this info is false.. if someone does get fired... then.... it must be true?  So even in your post you make no sense... 

 

On a cruise ship, I want quality people, who work hard, to get paid well, and treat me well.. Currently we use the tipping system for that.. but if it keeps getting abused... Were going to have crap workers, crap food, crap cruises, and slave ships... we have to stand up for the vacation experience we want.. and the way to get that is to treat the crew well.... 

 

Larry

#endrant

 

 

 

[Love my butler]

Why does everyone seem to take for granted an NCL employee will get fired for discussing compensation?  Is it a dastardly secret NCL does not want to get out because they are ashamed of their compensation practices?  I don't trust NCL as far as I could throw them because I know of their past deeds and they are now completely interested in profit over customers.

[MrMike45]

I think, as someone pointed out, we are spiraling towards a version of dsc discussion now. 

[sjbdtz]

21 hours ago, Jachred said:

OP: Thank you for the post.. 

 

To those that say where my money goes is none of my business..  YOU ARE WRONG!

 

He(and as I will be doing when I go on) have EVERY RIGHT to know if our money is going to the people we intend on it going to!

Asking about TIPPING and COMPENSATION are TWO Different things. He did not ask how much do you get paid, how much do you make hourly, how much do you normally get per contract.... he asked... how much of this money I am giving you do you get to keep!!  How is that not relevant information?  If I am paying someone for doing work for me... and then the bank says... I am taking 1/2 as fees but if you tell anyone you can't bank here anymore... and I only can pay using that bank..... How is it not my business??  Same thing.. 

 

THE ONLY ONE THAT BENEFITS FROM TIPPING/GRATS NOT BEING TRANSPARENT IS NCL... PERIOD.... STOP BEING NASTY PEOPLE AND PROTECTING NCL AND KEEPING THESE STAFF MEMBERS UNDERPAID, UNDER-APPRECIATED AND ABUSED.

 

Also since you think this info is false.. if someone does get fired... then.... it must be true?  So even in your post you make no sense... 

 

On a cruise ship, I want quality people, who work hard, to get paid well, and treat me well.. Currently we use the tipping system for that.. but if it keeps getting abused... Were going to have crap workers, crap food, crap cruises, and slave ships... we have to stand up for the vacation experience we want.. and the way to get that is to treat the crew well.... 

 

Larry

#endrant

 

Just curious, do you check-in with every car valet, hotel maid, room service attendant, etc. to find out how much of their tips they get to keep? 

 

I assume you want every right to know that your car mechanic is being paid for their work  (aka "money is going to the people we intend on it going to",  because you want "quality people, who work hard, to get paid well"), but do you ask them what part of the commissionable parts they sell / upsell, they get to keep?  

 

As others have pointed out:  they are not there by indentured servitude.  If this is happening, it is either accepted practice, or not so egregious that the dealers aren't complict.

 

 

Now there's a potential explanation which nobody has ventured yet which is that MAYBE the dealers are on a similar plan to bartenders & servers with their tips.  That is, they're granted an advance against tips and that the advance is recovered by no more than 60% of the tips.  In other words  I will pay you $1000 / month.    If your total share of tips is more than $1,675/mth (so that 60% = $1000) then you get to keep 100% of the overage.   Otherwise you get the $1000 draw, plus 40% of the tips.

 

If that was the whole story, it would be more consistent with their practices elsewhere, and somewhat more excusable.  Dealers earn tips based on being personable, and since they all share tips - it's less about single-hand luck.     

 

This could explain why all dealers participate in the clap-clap when tokes are dropped.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

21 hours ago, Jachred said:

 

 

 

[Jachred]

38 minutes ago, sjbdtz said:

 

Just curious, do you check-in with every car valet, hotel maid, room service attendant, etc. to find out how much of their tips they get to keep? 

 

I assume you want every right to know that your car mechanic is being paid for their work  (aka "money is going to the people we intend on it going to",  because you want "quality people, who work hard, to get paid well"), but do you ask them what part of the commissionable parts they sell / upsell, they get to keep?  

 

As others have pointed out:  they are not there by indentured servitude.  If this is happening, it is either accepted practice, or not so egregious that the dealers aren't complict.

 

 

Now there's a potential explanation which nobody has ventured yet which is that MAYBE the dealers are on a similar plan to bartenders & servers with their tips.  That is, they're granted an advance against tips and that the advance is recovered by no more than 60% of the tips.  In other words  I will pay you $1000 / month.    If your total share of tips is more than $1,675/mth (so that 60% = $1000) then you get to keep 100% of the overage.   Otherwise you get the $1000 draw, plus 40% of the tips.

 

If that was the whole story, it would be more consistent with their practices elsewhere, and somewhat more excusable.  Dealers earn tips based on being personable, and since they all share tips - it's less about single-hand luck.     

 

This could explain why all dealers participate in the clap-clap when tokes are dropped.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

 

Yes I have checked those other positions and many more that get my tips to see how much they are getting and optimize their commision/tip so I do take that into consideration.   Like some restaurant servers have to tip out other positions and if they did a really good job i over tip...  another place I go the valet and establishment split 50% of the tips and I still have to pay a fee to park that is not shared.. I avoid the valet and when I do need to use it i dont tip...

 

The mechanic situation would be different because that would be commission on sales that his skill as a salesman earned him and agree it's mostly non of my buisness. But I do shop labor rates and part prices and see the cost vs doing it somewhere else or myself.  I do reward those that do a great job with repeat buisness.  

 

I do want to know if a position is commission based so I can evaluate the Information being provided..  

 

I do think that draw idea sounds like the most correct as it's the only fair way if they are a 100% tip position. 

 

I agree they have the choice to leave, but I view them if it's TRUE also taking advantage of me in the situation as well.

 

I have asked dealers at other casinos if their tips are pooled or not..  I tip smaller on pooled tips because that extra money makes a bigger difference in my bankroll than the toke box

 

In my job I've had many customers asked how I bonus what commission I get and I have never taken offence and shared that Information freely.

 

Larry