Casino regulars - interesting tidbit on dealer tips

[graphicguy]

Just now, cdnsteelman said:

The dealers do not have keys to the tip boxes.

That’s what I was getting to.  They wouldn’t know how much would be in the tip boxes. So, no way to know how much in tips one way or their other they are splitting or what amount was in the boxes at the end of the day.  Sounds like they are all trying to maximize tips by stating they are somehow being shorted.

[cdnsteelman]

6 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

That’s what I was getting to.  They wouldn’t know how much would be in the tip boxes. So, no way to know how much in tips one way or their other they are splitting or what amount was in the boxes at the end of the day.  Sounds like they are all trying to maximize tips by stating they are somehow being shorted.

Sorry I guess I'm not understanding your point. All the tip boxes would be collected and counted in the back room. The house takes its 60 per cent and the remaining 40 per cent gets split among the dealers and floor staff.

 

I get that some people may not want to believe this because it's ugly and I guess there's a possibility it's not true but when four different people corroborate the same story it's either a well-practiced and pointless lie (that would actually get a dealer fired if the wrong person overheard it) or it's true.

[Outerdog]

5 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

I get that some people may not want to believe this because it's ugly and I guess there's a possibility it's not true but when four different people corroborate the same story it's either a well-practiced and pointless lie (that would actually get a dealer fired if the wrong person overheard it) or it's true.

 

I think the four people corroborating the story have about an equal chance of getting fired as the theoretical liar does.

 

If the house is raking dealer tips at NCL... that's a new low, even for NCL. 

[graphicguy]

^^^^^^^

 

I still can’t see how the dealers would know how much is in the tip boxes at the ed of the day to say someone skimmed.  

 

Hospitality industry feeds off making you want to tip them, and tip them a lot.  Who does or doesn’t know what hospitality people will do or say to up their tips?

[cdnsteelman]

4 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I still can’t see how the dealers would know how much is in the tip boxes at the ed of the day to say someone skimmed.

Who said anything about skimming? Believe what you want.

[MrMike45]

There is a distinct difference between tipping at the hold'em poker table, where every hand there is a house rake, and tipping at a Blackjack table, in which there is no rake and the tips go into a box.  

 

I'm wondering if all this only applies to the poker games and not the rest of the tables?  That would make a little more sense 

[bfree32]

If this tactic is true, I agree that it makes me more inclined not to tip. However, main reason for my post is to comment on the difference between poker tables and table games.

Poker is a game where the players play against each other and not the house. The house 'rakes' at a poker game in order for the house to make some money off the play. Table games like blackjack have a built-in odds advantage for the house.....that is how the house 'rakes' at a table game. In both situations, the house makes money.

If you choose to tip the dealer, you should be tipping THEM (not the cruise line) for dealing you good cards that allowed you to win. It is the same at poker and blackjack.

[Paphillyguy]

The more I think about this the more this just does not seem like it is even legal.  At least if this was a USA based casino there is no way that this would be legal.   Many a company has been sued and lost because they took part of an employee's tips. 

[slugg]

You know what they say. “The house always wins.”

[slugg]

1 minute ago, Paphillyguy said:

The more I think about this the more this just does not seem like it is even legal.  At least if this was a USA based casino there is no way that this would be legal.   Many a company has been sued and lost because they took part of an employee's tips. 

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, the cruise industry, on the whole, seems generally unethical. This isn’t unique to NCL. 

 

It pains me to say this, but as far as I can tell, Disney seems to be the only one running a mostly ethical ship. But look at their prices. 

 

The world is imperfect. I don’t have any answers, but I do agree with you that what NCL (and let’s be honest, other lines, too) is doing should be illegal.

[sandyzag]

2 hours ago, MrMike45 said:

There is a distinct difference between tipping at the hold'em poker table, where every hand there is a house rake, and tipping at a Blackjack table, in which there is no rake and the tips go into a box.  

 

I'm wondering if all this only applies to the poker games and not the rest of the tables?  That would make a little more sense 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^  This makes a whole lot of sense!!

[graphicguy]

10 hours ago, cdnsteelman said:

Who said anything about skimming? Believe what you want.

You said it.  You said NCL was skimming tips.

 

I’m not getting what these dealers are telling you.  I don’t see how they’d even know even if their tips are being taken. I’m thinking it’s a way to get you to tip more.

 

There’s no way to know, over the course of several shifts, and by the end of the night, that any dealer or pit boss to know what’s in the tip box to even have an inkling of how much, or how little there is.

 

I play table games and craps.  Even on “Hold’em”, if I take in a good pot, I tip the dealer.  Same in BJ, or 3-Card Poker (which I really enjoy).  If I’ve had a particularly good night, with one particular dealer, when I’m coloring my chips, I’m just as likely to through out paper money as a tip.  Let’s say it was a $50 bill.  In your scenario, someone from the casino management would have to come take the bill, give the dealer $30 of it and take the $20 left and put it in some sort of “house account”.

 

Never seen that happen.

 

Some people try to play on your sympathies for tips on cruise ships.  We’ve all seen it.

 

Sorry, not buying it.

[cdnsteelman]

I said nothing about skimming. This was explained to me as a policy well known to the dealers and casino staff - not as something the dealers felt like was going on behind their backs.

 

Again, believe what you want but don't put words in my mouth.

[cdnsteelman]

2 hours ago, MrMike45 said:

There is a distinct difference between tipping at the hold'em poker table, where every hand there is a house rake, and tipping at a Blackjack table, in which there is no rake and the tips go into a box. 

Tips at a poker table are treated exactly like every other table game. The dealer "taps" the tip on a plastic bar and puts them in a secure tip box... whether the casino profits via a rake or a statistical advantage has no bearing on this.

[NLH Arizona]

What I find amazing is that someone would actually have the audacity to ask a crew member about their salary, tips, etc., especially since I’ve heard discussing this is a cruise line’s fireable offense.  Not only did they ask, they then posted it on a public website that NCL reads, even calling out the Casino Host.  Now, the poster didn’t name the ship, but it was very easy to find out by reading one of his other posts, if I could figure it out, I'm sure NCL did.    Sometimes people do more harm to crew members than help, when they ask about their compensation and then share private conversations on public websites, whether the information they were given is true or not.

Edited March 26, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[TonyB17]

21 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

I said nothing about skimming. This was explained to me as a policy well known to the dealers and casino staff - not as something the dealers felt like was going on behind their backs.

 

Again, believe what you want but don't put words in my mouth.

This is what I understood in your original post.  The dealers know this is being done because they've been told by management that it's being done.  For those that don't know, in land based casinos like Las Vegas, all the tip boxes are pooled and counted at the end of the shift.  At least one dealer representative is there while the chips are being counted and verifies the total.  The total is divided among all the dealers that worked that shift and added to their paychecks.  In poker, there typically is no pooling.  I would think that it would look very similar in this case, but with someone from the casino being there to verify as well.  The counts are verified, the house takes their cut and the rest is divided among the dealers.  For those who think that this couldn't/can't be done, chips only have value if the house lets you cash them in.  If the house won't let the dealers cash in for full value, what would be their option except to quit? 

 

[erdoran]

as above, tips go into the clear locked box, so NCL does have access.  IF this is true, then of course it would be disclosed to the dealers by NCL, because I’m sure there is discussion of income, both salary and tips.  

 

I would HOPE this isn’t the case - certainly I am NOT going to tip more to make up for NCL taking that 60% if it is true, and that disclose does not make me want to tip more.

 

No idea about legalities, but consider....

 

autograt on UBP is for “beverage service charge and gratuity” - NCL takes an unknown cut 

 

isn’t there an autograt on bottled water pkgs and some other purchases?  A non-discretionary one?  Perhaps the fine print calls it a “service charge”?

 

DSC controversy of “does it or doesn’t it go directly to staff, including the new 50c increase?”

 

So it is not outside the realm of possibility that NCL takes a cut of dealer tips.  Not saying yes or not, obviously I have no way to know, but opinion is that it is possible.  Not nice either if true.

[cdnsteelman]

2 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

What I find amazing is that someone would actually have the audacity to ask a crew member about their salary, tips, etc., especially since I’ve heard discussing this is a cruise line’s fireable offense.  Not only did they ask, they then posted it on a public website that NCL reads, even calling out the Casino Host.  Now, the poster didn’t name the ship, but it was very easy to find out by reading one of his other posts, if I could figure it out, I'm sure NCL did.    Sometimes people do more harm to crew members than help, when they ask about their compensation and then share private conversations on public websites, whether the information they were given is true or not.

Six casino hosts, 20+ dealers... find on my post where I named names. As for what you find audacious, LOL, it doesn't bother me in the least. The information was shared with me as part of a much larger conversation about land casinos where this particular dealer had worked prior to joining NCL and NOT as a result of a question I asked.

 

You would think that if this was a fireable offence that none of the four different people with whom I spoke about it (I did directly and discretely ask the other three for confirmation as part of other conversations) would have said anything about it or would have said something along the lines of "we can talk about compensation per company policy" or laughed it off.

 

But, of course, you know better.

[jdvmd]

Very interesting.

[NLH Arizona]

8 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

Six casino hosts, 20+ dealers... find on my post where I named names. As for what you find audacious, LOL, it doesn't bother me in the least. The information was shared with me as part of a much larger conversation about land casinos where this particular dealer had worked prior to joining NCL and NOT as a result of a question I asked.

 

You would think that if this was a fireable offence that none of the four different people with whom I spoke about it (I did directly and discretely ask the other three for confirmation as part of other conversations) would have said anything about it or would have said something along the lines of "we can talk about compensation per company policy" or laughed it off.

 

But, of course, you know better.

Yes I do, not hard for NCL to question the Casino Hosts on the Pearl and if anything happens, it is on you for repeating a private conversation.  A crew members compensation and how they get it is really none of anyone business.  Do you ask the same questions to each and every employee at each establishment you do business with?  If not, then why would you think it is okay to invade someone's personal information, just because they work on a cruise ship.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[MrMike45]

1 hour ago, cdnsteelman said:

Six casino hosts, 20+ dealers... find on my post where I named names. As for what you find audacious, LOL, it doesn't bother me in the least. The information was shared with me as part of a much larger conversation about land casinos where this particular dealer had worked prior to joining NCL and NOT as a result of a question I asked.

 

You would think that if this was a fireable offence that none of the four different people with whom I spoke about it (I did directly and discretely ask the other three for confirmation as part of other conversations) would have said anything about it or would have said something along the lines of "we can talk about compensation per company policy" or laughed it off.

 

But, of course, you know better.

 

16 cruises with NCL, and I don't think I have ever seen 6 casino hosts on the same ship for any of those cruises.  So after one dealer mentioned this to you, you took the time to go around to 25 other people to ask them?  

[Paphillyguy]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

 A crew members compensation and how they get it is really none of anyone business. 

 

 

I guess the difference here is that it is involving tips that you are giving directly to the dealer.  Most people expect that these tips are going directly to the dealers and not that NCL is taking a cut of these.    Are other people that might be given a cash tip required to give it to NCL for their cut as well?  

[sjbdtz]

So this started as  "because we were waiting at the Hold'em table, a dealer told me in a frank conversation" moving on to "corroborated by a Casino Host & 3 other dealers",  to  "six casino hosts and 20+ dealers". 

 

Granted, I'm skimming (not 60%) but the reading-fast type....and find the fish is growing larger with each recounting.

 

I too would absolutely believe that the tips at the Hold'em table might be raked,  but would be surprised to learn definitively that the same happens at all tables.

 

What about the hand-pay attendants, who often get a little something kicked-back.  Do they have the best job in the world, or do they have to cough up 60% too?

 

Stephen

 

.

 

[Georgia_Peaches]

18 hours ago, graphicguy said:

^^^^^^^

 

I still can’t see how the dealers would know how much is in the tip boxes at the ed of the day to say someone skimmed.  

 

Hospitality industry feeds off making you want to tip them, and tip them a lot.  Who does or doesn’t know what hospitality people will do or say to up their tips?

I get what you're saying...if the box isn't opened in the presence of the dealers, then how do they know that the house took 60%? 

And just to clarify, if you tip extra to make up for the difference taken by the house, how does that not have to go into "the box"?  Extra tips go directly into the dealer's pocket?  Either way, I stick with the slots...that way nobody loses except for me.  😳

 

And to those who say service industry workers will say anything to vie for extra tips...IDK...maybe some, but I think most just hope to be tipped fairly and to be appreciated for the work they do.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Georgia_Peaches
typo

[NLH Arizona]

2 hours ago, Paphillyguy said:

I guess the difference here is that it is involving tips that you are giving directly to the dealer.  Most people expect that these tips are going directly to the dealers and not that NCL is taking a cut of these.    Are other people that might be given a cash tip required to give it to NCL for their cut as well?  

Do you ask your server in a land restaurant if they get to keep all their tips?  BTW, in many restaurants they share with bus persons, hostest, etc. and if they don't get a tip, they still have to payout those folks.  Also, we have no idea if the story is true or not.