Opting out of paying Daily Service Charge

[rkelly]

21 hours ago, fisherguy said:

Here's the simple answer.  The "subject to adjustment at your discretion" is there in case you get truly horrible service that warrants such an adjustment.  It is not  intended to allow passengers to opt out of the service charge for the purposes of tipping individuals in cash.

 

I started cruising many moons ago when we did the envelope way.  I hated it because I was never quite sure about how much to tip.  Did I tip too much? not enough?  There were guidelines provided so I guess you could tip less than the guidelines if you had bad service or more if your cabin steward or wait staff went above and beyond.  I like it the way now.  Just leave the SC on and tip a bit extra if some individuals were outstanding.  BTW In all my cruises, I have never every had a reason to adjust the service charge.

 

 

 

[rkelly]

RIGHT ON! I always opt out and tip separately to those who have treated me well. I always exceed the prepaid tip as I like to see where my money goes. Especially my room steward and favorite bartenders. I tip those people when I get on board so they know I'm not a cheap skate.  I tip along the way. Usually slip my steward $20 every few days. It's a bargain to me and always great service. If they are outstanding I normally tip a very nice sum at the end of the cruise depend on length of cruise. Just look at the lines at the front desk the last night of the cruise. I know what 99% are doing. The hard workers behind the scenes should be paid within NCL's overhead. I wish the cruise would be honest and show the customer the detailed breakdown of the prepaid tip choice. It would make thinks a lot simpler. All I know is that it my system works. Some folks say too much effort. Come on now. These are hard working people and go the extra mile for those that deserve it!

Edited August 3, 2019 by rkelly
sp error

[nclsuncruiser]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:27 PM, cottagers2000 said:

There is no need to give any reason for requesting the daily service charge to be credited to your account. It is a simple matter of going to guest services and asking for the service charge adjustment form. They ask for a signature and $105 for a weeks cruise per person is credited to your account

No need to give a reason because they know the reason - being cheap.

 

1 hour ago, rkelly said:

RIGHT ON! I always opt out and tip separately to those who have treated me well. I always exceed the prepaid tip as I like to see where my money goes. Especially my room steward and favorite bartenders. I tip those people when I get on board so they know I'm not a cheap skate.  I tip along the way. Usually slip my steward $20 every few days. It's a bargain to me and always great service. If they are outstanding I normally tip a very nice sum at the end of the cruise depend on length of cruise. Just look at the lines at the front desk the last night of the cruise. I know what 99% are doing. The hard workers behind the scenes should be paid within NCL's overhead. I wish the cruise would be honest and show the customer the detailed breakdown of the prepaid tip choice. It would make thinks a lot simpler. All I know is that it my system works. Some folks say too much effort. Come on now. These are hard working people and go the extra mile for those that deserve it!

But they don't pay the "hard workers behind the scenes" - so you are costing them money.

[fshagan]

18 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Of course, but as we don't know or care what the wage is, it does not matter, the method of payment stands correct and I clculated it around what is know, the minimum wage.

The will be a variety of wages and I guarantee some, non customer facing crew will be on that minimum wage.

 

You forgot the mandatory overtime for the hours they work.

[picsa]

15 hours ago, nclsuncruiser said:

But they don't pay the "hard workers behind the scenes" - so you are costing them money.

 

But then NCL aren't paying the "hard workers behind the scenes" either...

 

Choosing to sail with a company who has such poor employment practices isn't exactly taking the moral high ground.

[newmexicoNita]

15 hours ago, nclsuncruiser said:

No need to give a reason because they know the reason - being cheap.

 

But they don't pay the "hard workers behind the scenes" - so you are costing them money.

Thank you. I can't believe some people are not aware of how many receive some of the pooled DSC that are not up front. I would never think of adjusting the amount. To me, if you want to tip someone separately like your cabin steward just do it as an extra thank you. 

[cottagers2000]

38 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

Thank you. I can't believe some people are not aware of how many receive some of the pooled DSC that are not up front. I would never think of adjusting the amount. To me, if you want to tip someone separately like your cabin steward just do it as an extra thank you. 

Leaving tips for anybody is obviously a personal decision. It is also a personal decision not to pay any fees that are clearly shown as discretionary

[newmexicoNita]

2 minutes ago, cottagers2000 said:

Leaving tips for anybody is obviously a personal decision. It is also a personal decision not to pay any fees that are clearly shown as discretionary

you are correct; it is personal decision but some people do get the bad end of the deal when they work hard and do not see the benefits because others choose to go against the norm and do it their way. 

[cottagers2000]

3 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

you are correct; it is personal decision but some people do get the bad end of the deal when they work hard and do not see the benefits because others choose to go against the norm and do it their way. 

You make it sound that the "people" do not get paid at all for the job that they do. If these same people receive anything in addition to their standard wage, then that is a bonus for them

[picsa]

27 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

you are correct; it is personal decision but some people do get the bad end of the deal when they work hard and do not see the benefits because others choose to go against the norm and do it their way. 

 

Then as a responsible employer NCL should be ensuring its hard working staff are not disadvantaged. Perhaps doing away with the DSC and increasing the fare so they have enough money to pay everyone properly.

 

That way a tip, really is a tip - a small bonus for a job well done and not the bulk of the pay.

[Red-Sol]

13 minutes ago, picsa said:

 

Then as a responsible employer NCL should be ensuring its hard working staff are not disadvantaged. Perhaps doing away with the DSC and increasing the fare so they have enough money to pay everyone properly.

 

That way a tip, really is a tip - a small bonus for a job well done and not the bulk of the pay.

I agree with this. While I would never remove or reduce the DSC I do understand all the confusion it causes. Is it a tip? Is it not a tip? Who actually gets it? How much do they get? You could say that none of that is any of my business....and that is probably so....but the actual amount I do tip (in addition to the DSC) is my business and having that in place makes it difficult to determine what might be a proper amount. I think NCL should just do away totally with the DSC as a separate line and just raise fares  by the amount needed to cover what they wish to charge currently for the DSC. Doing it that way would stop all the bickering about the DSC...the crew would still get what would be allotted to them (maybe more)....it could be  big marketing advantage for NCL to be able to say "No more DSC" and  on top of that the real tips that people offer crew members would likely increase. 

[picsa]

2 minutes ago, Red-Sol said:

I think NCL should just do away totally with the DSC as a separate line and just raise fares  by the amount needed to cover what they wish to charge currently for the DSC. Doing it that way would stop all the bickering about the DSC...the crew would still get what would be allotted to them (maybe more)....it could be  big marketing advantage for NCL to be able to say "No more DSC" and  on top of that the real tips that people offer crew members would likely increase. 

 

So until they do, then those who disagree with people opting out of the DSC should boycott NCL until they introduce some decent employment practices and introduces a system where everyone pays the DSC as it is in the fare and can't be opted out of.

 

Don't blame those who play the game by choosing not to pay an optional charge, blame those who designed the rules - NCL.

 

 

[Red-Sol]

2 minutes ago, picsa said:

Don't blame those who play the game by choosing not to pay an optional charge, blame those who designed the rules - NCL.

Actually I don't blame anyone who decides to play the current game.....NCL has brought it on themselves...for me personally I wouldn't do it...but that's just me.

[ollienbertsmum]

11 minutes ago, Red-Sol said:

I agree with this. While I would never remove or reduce the DSC I do understand all the confusion it causes. Is it a tip? Is it not a tip? Who actually gets it? How much do they get? You could say that none of that is any of my business....and that is probably so....but the actual amount I do tip (in addition to the DSC) is my business and having that in place makes it difficult to determine what might be a proper amount. I think NCL should just do away totally with the DSC as a separate line and just raise fares  by the amount needed to cover what they wish to charge currently for the DSC. Doing it that way would stop all the bickering about the DSC...the crew would still get what would be allotted to them (maybe more)....it could be  big marketing advantage for NCL to be able to say "No more DSC" and  on top of that the real tips that people offer crew members would likely increase. 

 

P and O do market their cruises with ‘no gratuities’.  They cater for UK cruisers.  Tipping is done in the UK and Europe - just not in the same ‘moral obligation’ as in the US.    

 

We have paid service charges as a ‘perk’ on our upcoming Star cruise.  It is nice not to have to think about it.

[picsa]

1 minute ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 

P and O do market their cruises with ‘no gratuities’.  They cater for UK cruisers.  Tipping is done in the UK and Europe - just not in the same ‘moral obligation’ as in the US. 

 

P&O changed this year, forced by the fact that sufficient numbers of people had stopped paying the optional service charge (mainly because P&O had become greedy and more than doubled it over two or three years from around $3 per person a day to $8).

 

So to say that tipping is done in the UK and Europe is not untrue, but if $8 causes people to stop paying then NCL's $15 isn't going to get many people from the UK and Europe choosing to pay an optional charge.

[ollienbertsmum]

Ah my 2020 cruise with P and O is my first.  I assumed that this was a long-term marketing plan.  It was the aft cabin at a good price rather than the tipping practice that made me book the cruise.  I did quite like it though.  

[erdoran]

My contribution to this great debate is if NCL was transparent about the DSC and said where it went (e.g. $2/day steward, $3/day laundry workers) then I think a lot fewer people would be removing it, because they’d be satisfied that it was being used as it was positioned - tips- rather than subsidizing NCL’s own payroll obligation.

 

And we’ve had authoritative posts here saying that the crew is guaranteed a minimum amount, and if DSC is less than some unknown figure, then the crew gets none of it - so based on this I conclude it is used to subsidize NCL’s payroll, rather than going directly to the people we don’t want to stiff - so in a sense, NCL is stiffing them.  The point of a tip is it is OVER AND ABOVE the paycheck, not used to make up the minimum paycheck.

 

I wonder how often crew even get anything above their minimum from DSC or how much they could potentially get if everyone paid it.

 

Also for those who says “it’s none of your business what’s done with the $” - it IS our business.  When I pay for something I want to know what I am buying, and I have a right to know.  So, when I pay my DSC, am I appreciating the fine service in a tangible manner, or am I only adding to NCL’s bottom line?

[picsa]

2 minutes ago, ollienbertsmum said:

Ah my 2020 cruise with P and O is my first.  I assumed that this was a long-term marketing plan.  

 

No, it was announced last year after P&O tried and failed to persuade people to pay their DSC. Those who opted out were getting letters sent to their cabins asking them to reconsider, but that just caused more complaints from those who had opted out (and the same types of thread as this one on the P&O boards with those looking down on people who had opted out).

 

But at the end of the day, if sufficient people weren't prepared to pay the optional charge, then P&O had no choice but to get rid of it, since if they didn't collect enough money to pay the staff then the next thing they would be doing is leaving.

 

To make clear, UK and European legislation does not permit ANY type of hidden mandatory charge - if you book a cruise on a UK or European web site you don't see a $x fare and then snuck on at the end "plus $y taxes and other charges". All that has to be upfront and included in the $x fare. To add to P&O's woes, it had been marketing itself heavily over the past couple of years to people who had never cruised before, so were not expecting this optional charge.

[picsa]

11 minutes ago, erdoran said:

My contribution to this great debate is if NCL was transparent about the DSC and said where it went (e.g. $2/day steward, $3/day laundry workers) then I think a lot fewer people would be removing it, because they’d be satisfied that it was being used as it was positioned - tips- rather than subsidizing NCL’s own payroll obligation.

 

If anyone believes that the DSC is paid out like that then I have a bridge to sell them.

[Red-Sol]

3 minutes ago, picsa said:

 

If anyone believes that the DSC is paid out like that then I have a bridge to sell them.

 

Brooklyn? 😉

[MotownVoice]

On 8/2/2019 at 7:01 AM, newmexicoNita said:

that is pretty unworkable considering a living wage in one country is very different from another country and remember you are going to pay it one way or the other. The method cruise line use is very realistic. The salaries maybe should be raised but all in all a living wage salary is not something that applies to cruise lines. Who decides a living wage for someone from Mexico as compared to someone from Asia? 

 

The employer working with the employee to ascertain what he and his family needs to feed themselves, keep themselves protected from the elements in suitable housing, and pay the usual household debts is how a figure is come to.  

 

I don’t get this oddball argument that somehow we need to hammer out a single number so it’s fair to every one.  That’s a stupid concept.  Employers need to be forced into being fair with their wage/profit margin if they’re so greedy when it’s obvious they’re making record profits they can’t bring themselves to do it of their own accord.  

 

Imagine if when you applied for a job, your future employer offered you 5 dollars an hour and when you said you couldn’t survive on that kind of money, he responded, “well I’m sorry, 5 dollars in South Korea is not the same as 5 dollars in Beverly Hills so I don’t think offering you more is workable.”

 

People just do the Oligarch’s bidding when they make these garbage arguments.

Edited August 4, 2019 by MotownVoice

[NLH Arizona]

1 hour ago, erdoran said:

I wonder how often crew even get anything above their minimum from DSC or how much they could potentially get if everyone paid it.

 

With regard to this, I can only go by what a poster told us about her child.  They worked for NCL and hated sailing out of Southampton, because they said that so many didn't pay the DSC that got very little, if any, over their minimum wage and overtime.

[ziggyuk]

40 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

With regard to this, I can only go by what a poster told us about her child.  They worked for NCL and hated sailing out of Southampton, because they said that so many didn't pay the DSC that got very little, if any, over their minimum wage and overtime.

 

Must have been some time ago as NCL had the DSC included in the fare price for the last two years as part of a trial, they have only just resorted back to separating it out again after scrapping the trial.

 

NCL scrap the all inclusive fare just as P&O and MSC introduce it in the UK.

[NLH Arizona]

21 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Must have been some time ago as NCL had the DSC included in the fare price for the last two years as part of a trial, they have only just resorted back to separating it out again after scrapping the trial.

 

NCL scrap the all inclusive fare just as P&O and MSC introduce it in the UK.

Yes it was years ago and I believe that is why they included the DSC in the fare, but they changed that because of the complaints from those that wanted it in the fare, but didn't want to pay for it in the increased fare.

[PTC DAWG]

IF you can’t afford to pay the DSC, tips, grats etc...(call it what you want), you can’t afford to cruise.  Do us all a favor and stay home.