Opting out of paying Daily Service Charge

[picsa]

11 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

IF you can’t afford to pay the DSC, tips, grats etc...(call it what you want), you can’t afford to cruise.  Do us all a favor and stay home. 

 

You are mistaking people not being able to afford the DSC to people choosing not to pay an optional charge.

 

Don't blame the player, blame the game.

[valleyvillage]

Confirmation bias is strong in this thread!

[cottagers2000]

57 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

IF you can’t afford to pay the DSC, tips, grats etc...(call it what you want), you can’t afford to cruise.  Do us all a favor and stay home. 

I do believe that a number of your posts are becoming too personal.?Exactly what concern is it of yours if somebody follows the directives of NCL and requests that the DISCRETIONARY daily service charges are credited back to your account?

[nclsuncruiser]

48 minutes ago, picsa said:

 

You are mistaking people not being able to afford the DSC to people choosing not to pay an optional charge.

 

Don't blame the player, blame the game.

 

6 hours ago, cottagers2000 said:

 It is also a personal decision not to pay any fees that are clearly shown as discretionary

 

You are both conflating discretionary with optional. While they are difficult to distinguish perhaps, the word discretionary comes from discretion, i.e. to use your discretion.  It's implied that you might use your discretion and judgement to reduce it if you got bad service,  but calling it simply optional is your getting out of being cheap.

Blaming NCL as an employer is just giving yourself some self assurance that you aren't skimming off guys who depend on all income.

 

If it was meant to be optional rather than for you to use your judgement and discretion they'd call it optional. If you're convinced of your own argument, at least wear a t-shirt onboard letting everyone onboard, including the crew, know how tight you are.

[PortFees45]

I love the DSC defenders taking their noble stand with literally no idea where that money goes. None. Zip. Nada. 

 

What if you found out half of it went to Miami for "administrative costs" - something not at all outside the realm of possibilities. Would you still look down your noses at people who choose to opt out and tip their steward directly?

[nclsuncruiser]

30 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

I love the DSC defenders taking their noble stand with literally no idea where that money goes. None. Zip. Nada. 

 

What if you found out half of it went to Miami for "administrative costs" - something not at all outside the realm of possibilities. Would you still look down your noses at people who choose to opt out and tip their steward directly?

You're missing the point. Its not about tipping the steward directly, it's about ensuring all the people a bit behind the scenes also get their fair share.  Feel free to tip the steward extra as your main point of contact,  I do, but not so you can feel better flashing the cash and stiffing the people you dont have to face.

Edited August 4, 2019 by nclsuncruiser

[triptastic3]

The cruise lines, all of them, could alleviate a lot of these discussions with some simple transparency. Years ago with the envelopes you knew what the recommended amount was for each person, cabin steward, waiter, assistant waiter, head waiter etc. There weren't very many people. You also knew that they were getting it. I think a big problem many have with it now is that nobody knows where the $15 a day goes. A simple breakdown by the cruise line would be easy to publish, how much of that goes to the Waiter, cabin steward etc, and how much to laundry and other behind the scenes people.

The cruise lines don't publish this because it is all at THEIR DISCRETION how they distribute it. Who knows how they hold this over the staffs heads when it comes to working extra shifts, covering for sick co workers etc. I for one hope it is 100% distributed to staff and fairly but we are talking about big business and given the desire for profits, who knows. Will it affect my enjoyment of the cruise, no. Am I a little curious about how NCL and others distribute what amounts to a few hundred thousand a week in gratuities, Yes a little.

[Newleno]

On 8/1/2019 at 9:36 AM, tallnthensome said:

That is incorrect .....They are the same animal. The service charge is the onboard tips and is removable. We aren’t talking about service charges on the drink promo and such which are not removable . 

if I never use the dining rooms why should I pay the full amount of DSC, I'll pay  my appropriate adjusted  DSC for the services used.

[Newleno]

On 8/1/2019 at 12:25 PM, tallnthensome said:

This is true. He must be very poor, a penny pincher, and probably from Europe. Cottagers must have scraped his life savings together for this cruise and the fact that he has nothing left to tip is ok in his case. Since he doesn’t get a tip at his job surely nobody else deserves one at their job. A cruise staff’s worst passenger nonetheless. 

discriminatory and inflammatory 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Newleno

[NLH Arizona]

21 minutes ago, Newleno said:

if I never use the dining rooms why should I pay the full amount of DSC, I'll pay  my appropriate adjusted  DSC for the services used.

You never eat on the ship during your cruises?

[erdoran]

7 hours ago, MotownVoice said:

 

The employer working with the employee to ascertain what he and his family needs to feed themselves, keep themselves protected from the elements in suitable housing, and pay the usual household debts is how a figure is come to.  

 

I don’t get this oddball argument that somehow we need to hammer out a single number so it’s fair to every one.  That’s a stupid concept.  Employers need to be forced into being fair with their wage/profit margin if they’re so greedy when it’s obvious they’re making record profits they can’t bring themselves to do it of their own accord.  

 

Imagine if when you applied for a job, your future employer offered you 5 dollars an hour and when you said you couldn’t survive on that kind of money, he responded, “well I’m sorry, 5 dollars in South Korea is not the same as 5 dollars in Beverly Hills so I don’t think offering you more is workable.”

 

People just do the Oligarch’s bidding when they make these garbage arguments.

Actually here in the US it’s illegal if you pay people doing the same job differently solely based on gender, religion, national origin, race, marital status, etc....which would include “what he and his family need” since the premise in the discussion is that someone from Country 1 needs more (or less) than Country 2.

 

So this presumes that no matter what job someone has, there is supposed to be a mutual understanding of how much $$ the employee needs, rather than what their work is worth?  

 

Salaries are set for the employer to be competitive in the employment marketplace to retain and attract employees, not based on what any individual employee “needs”.  

[erdoran]

The reason the “behind the scenes” employees are included in DSC is so NCL can pass off as much of their payroll as possible to DSC revenue, AND to guilt people into not removing it.   I’ve gotten on my soapbox about this regularly - in what other industry are the customers expected to pay extra so that laundry workers, cooks, cleaning staff, etc get paid a living wage?  And because they are included, that allows guilting pax who are NOT cheap and who expect to tip directly into paying the DSC DIRECTLY TO NCL so NCL can control it and use it however they please.

 

I pay my DSC because of CC guilt pretty much, but I do pay it.  I would MUCH rather tip directly, and if there was guidance about how much is the appropriate amount, I would do exactly that, and increase or decrease based on the individual’s service quality.

 

BTW why is there an automatic CHEAP CHEAP accusation when anyone dares question DSC?  Why NOT question a $500 or more surprise surcharge?  And for those who want to tip substantially to their favorite staff, what’s wrong with asking about redirecting their DSC that way?  

[Newleno]

24 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

You never eat on the ship during your cruises?

thats quite a jump from what i communicated, I pay  tips for services rendered, (example I never use a maitre de at buffet so I will not give him/her a tip because they work in the dining room)

Edited August 4, 2019 by Newleno

[smplybcause]

thats quite a jump from what i communicated, I pay  tips for services rendered, (example I never use a maitre de at buffet so I will not give him/her a tip because they work in the dining room)

So you tip everyone who serves you in the buffet on a daily basis? That's a lot of cash to carry every day and a lot of effort to figure out who to give it to.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Newleno]

1 minute ago, smplybcause said:

So you tip everyone who serves you in the buffet on a daily basis? That's a lot of cash to carry every day and a lot of effort to figure out who to give it to.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

oh that is quite another big jump, a big assumption, no of course not, i simply adjust the DSC, easy peasy, quick and easy 😃

[smplybcause]

oh that is quite another big jump, a big assumption, no of course not, i simply adjust the DSC, easy peasy, quick and easy [emoji2]

So you adjust it for not using one person?

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[PortFees45]

4 hours ago, nclsuncruiser said:

You're missing the point. Its not about tipping the steward directly, it's about ensuring all the people a bit behind the scenes also get their fair share.  Feel free to tip the steward extra as your main point of contact,  I do, but not so you can feel better flashing the cash and stiffing the people you dont have to face.

I'm not missing the point...you're making my point. You have no idea how much of the DSC goes to people "behind the scenes." Does admin staff in Miami count as "behind the scenes"? I restate my original question - if NCL sends half the dsc to Miami, would you still feel so enthusiastic about paying it? 

 

Corporations are generally eager to share things they think will make them look good, and careful to conceal what does not. There's a reason NCL is consistently opaque about how this money is actually distributed and where it goes.

 

And to the people talking about "behind the scenes staff" etc, shouldn't you also be tipping the people in the engine room? Ship's security? The cruise director? 

 

Also just for the record Frank Del Rio made $22.6 million dollars last year. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by PortFees45

[Cafedumonde]

Can we opt out early in the cruise, or does it have to be on the last night?  And how does it work?  We just fill out a form and it gets taken off?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Cafedumonde

[IrieBajan54]

42 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

I'm not missing the point...you're making my point. You have no idea how much of the DSC goes to people "behind the scenes." Does admin staff in Miami count as "behind the scenes"? I restate my original question - if NCL sends half the dsc to Miami, would you still feel so enthusiastic about paying it? 

 

Corporations are generally eager to share things they think will make them look good, and careful to conceal what does not. There's a reason NCL is consistently opaque about how this money is actually distributed and where it goes.

 

And to the people talking about "behind the scenes staff" etc, shouldn't you also be tipping the people in the engine room? Ship's security.? The cruise director? 

 

Also just for the record Frank Del Rio made $22.6 million dollars last year. 

;

;

NCL prefers to handsomely compensate important employees and those at the bottom of the totem pole, from their perspective, are left for passengers to pay through the DSC and extra cash tips.

[cottagers2000]

6 hours ago, Cafedumonde said:

Can we opt out early in the cruise, or does it have to be on the last night?  And how does it work?  We just fill out a form and it gets taken off?

It does depend on the itinerary of each cruise.For example, when I boarded the Epic last week in Rome, I was asked by guest services to go back after Barcelona. The brown pre printed form is filled out by NCL staff and they insert the amount, I my case it was $105 for a 7 day cruise. All you do then is sign the form and hand it back. Ask for a copy of the signed form. The credit is then shown on your account later in the day

[Cafedumonde]

13 minutes ago, cottagers2000 said:

It does depend on the itinerary of each cruise.For example, when I boarded the Epic last week in Rome, I was asked by guest services to go back after Barcelona. The brown pre printed form is filled out by NCL staff and they insert the amount, I my case it was $105 for a 7 day cruise. All you do then is sign the form and hand it back. Ask for a copy of the signed form. The credit is then shown on your account later in the day

Thanks.  We’ve never taken auto grats off on any cruise, but we’ve decided to start taking them off with NCL.  Not looking forward to it honestly, so it is helpful to know ahead of time how it works.

[newmexicoNita]

12 hours ago, PortFees45 said:

I'm not missing the point...you're making my point. You have no idea how much of the DSC goes to people "behind the scenes." Does admin staff in Miami count as "behind the scenes"? I restate my original question - if NCL sends half the dsc to Miami, would you still feel so enthusiastic about paying it? 

 

Corporations are generally eager to share things they think will make them look good, and careful to conceal what does not. There's a reason NCL is consistently opaque about how this money is actually distributed and where it goes.

 

And to the people talking about "behind the scenes staff" etc, shouldn't you also be tipping the people in the engine room? Ship's security? The cruise director? 

 

Also just for the record Frank Del Rio made $22.6 million dollars last year. 

Do you think what he made is much different than what other COEs make with major corporations? Of course now. as for people behind the scene, you are right we have no idea how the pool money is divided but you can be pretty sure many people we never come in contact with are sharing in some of it. I am just amazed at how many really do not understand the DSC when all mass marketed lines have the same policy; the amount may vary but they all do have one. 

[MotownVoice]

16 hours ago, erdoran said:

Actually here in the US it’s illegal if you pay people doing the same job differently solely based on gender, religion, national origin, race, marital status, etc....which would include “what he and his family need” since the premise in the discussion is that someone from Country 1 needs more (or less) than Country 2.

 

So this presumes that no matter what job someone has, there is supposed to be a mutual understanding of how much $$ the employee needs, rather than what their work is worth?  

 

Salaries are set for the employer to be competitive in the employment marketplace to retain and attract employees, not based on what any individual employee “needs”.  

This response is so tragically flawed in facts I won't even respond to the top half. 

As to how "salaries are set" it may be the case in the places where you work.  But the conversation for virtually every job for which I've ever passed the application process has begun with the words "what do you need to come and work for us."

Maybe the work you do is based in the strictest form of capitalism where what the employee wants or needs is utterly irrelevant to the corporate oligarchs that run the joint.  I just know I wouldn't stay in an industry that disrespected its work force like that.

[picsa]

18 hours ago, nclsuncruiser said:

You are both conflating discretionary with optional. While they are difficult to distinguish perhaps, the word discretionary comes from discretion, i.e. to use your discretion.  It's implied that you might use your discretion and judgement to reduce it if you got bad service,  but calling it simply optional is your getting out of being cheap.

Blaming NCL as an employer is just giving yourself some self assurance that you aren't skimming off guys who depend on all income.

 

You have made the assumption that the starting point of the discretion is to reduce the suggested DSC figure which NCL has suggested if service does not meet the standard.

 

An alternative and perfectly valid view is the discretion is to pay whatever figure you consider the level of service warrants using the NCL amount as a suggestion, but only paying if the level of service has exceeded expectations, with the amount determined by how far the service has exceeded expectations.

 

18 hours ago, nclsuncruiser said:

Blaming NCL as an employer is just giving yourself some self assurance that you aren't skimming off guys who depend on all income.

 

Now the issue is, going right back to the first post in the thread by JOHNHOWARTH 2 where he mentions "I have just booked on the Epic next month and booked through NCL UK".

 

In the United States it is accepted by everyone that hospitality businesses don't pay their staff and the money the staff take home is almost exclusively derived from tips (with the staff being happy with this arrangement as they usually make more than they would with a fixed salary and receiving cash is handy from a tax point of view). So anyone dining is expected to pay a substantial tip and to do anything else is 'cheap' no matter if the service is not up to scratch or just average.

 

In the UK and Europe it is the opposite situation. Hospitality businesses are required by law to pay their staff a wage at the same level as an employee in a non-hospitality business. So tips although welcome are a bonus for the staff they are not the major element of the money they take home. If a customer decides they want to leave a tip, then great. However if the customer decides they don't want to pay anything even if the service has been good, then also absolutely fine; nobody is going to be chasing them down the street or calling them 'cheap'.

 

Now either NCL employs a lot of stupid people or it knows full well that its customers from the US and Europe have very different views, so it is quite reasonable to blame NCL as an employer for ignoring cultural norms when they set the fares and the T&Cs for the different customer groups it sells to.

 

NCL created this issue where the staff will suffer and NCL has the power to fix it.

[MotownVoice]

19 minutes ago, picsa said:

In the United States it is accepted by everyone that hospitality businesses don't pay their staff and the money the staff take home is almost exclusively derived from tips...

 

If you've been paying attention, the position of your antagonists in this thread is that it's high time we stop accepting this mythical axiom and move toward a system less dependant on tipping such as the rest of the world already accepts.