Allure propulsion issues?

[Clarea]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is correct.  If there is only one means of steering (i.e. one pod functioning) it is up to the local port authorities as to whether the ship can enter port, or whether it requires an escort tug all the way from the sea buoy to the dock (as the USCG does for US ports).

 

Thanks for the explanation.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Maybe they will do this.  https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/21178-how-the-carnival-vista-will-be-repaired.html?fbclid=IwAR2bPytySnMBk5QIgaVo5RTTQhnZ8mIX4luP8Ky81gyeNdvQAb9dIndyT70

The problem here is that Oasis class is very near the deadweight limit this ship can lift, and she is much longer, so there would be a significant amount of ship hanging over the end of the heavy lift ship that would not be supported, and this would be unacceptable bending moment in the hull, possibly causing weld fatigue and failure.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Didnt Oasis cross with two pods?

 

But she had no revenue passengers 

Yes to both, but that was last minute.  I would think they could arrange a TA with a schedule to match the speed with some advance planning.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

While azipods do save some fuel over the life of the ship, the major reason for going to azipods is the capital cost is less than for a conventional shafted propeller, rudder, multiple steering equipment, and thruster.  Azipod ships have no better control than a ship with rudders and thrusters.  And, actually, the Rolls Royce Mermaid pods were the cause of the lawsuit against Rolls Royce by Carnival Corp and RCI ($24 million and $65 million) for defects in their pods, and the reason that Mermaid pods have far and away less market share than ABB's azipod.  Since the Mermaid pods on the Celebrity ships, RCI has not used Rolls Royce, and I'm not sure any cruise ship installed Mermaid pods after these two lawsuits.  Rolls Royce, since acquired by Wartsila, and now by Kongsberg, has recently come out with a new pod design, hoping to get back into the market.

All I did was repeat what I read on the internet. Guess everyone incorrect but you. Why is it you always like going after anything i say? The 6-9% in fuel savings and the control over the ship is what I read. Not what I made up. On one cruise I was taken below deck by the chief engineer and given a lot of information on the pods. What he told me does not reflect what you are saying. Guess you are smarter than he is.

As for the Azipods, it clearly indicated they have more problems. However, you are always the very smart one and I am always incorrect. So be it. 

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes to both, but that was last minute.  I would think they could arrange a TA with a schedule to match the speed with some advance planning.

 

Thanks, as I recall, some on the Oasis thread were speculating that they needed all three pods working if they were going away from the islands into open sea. 

 

You may have addressed that. 

 

 

[Clarea]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes to both, but that was last minute.  I would think they could arrange a TA with a schedule to match the speed with some advance planning.

 

Would they not have some reluctance to do a TA with only two pods functioning?

[John&LaLa]

Just now, twodaywonder said:

All I did was repeat what I read on the internet. Guess everyone incorrect but you. Why is it you always like going after anything i say? The 6-9% in fuel savings and the control over the ship is what I read. Not what I made up. On one cruise I was taken below deck by the chief engineer and given a lot of information on the pods. What he told me does not reflect what you are saying. Guess you are smarter than he is.

As for the Azipods, it clearly indicated they have more problems. However, you are always the very smart one and I am always incorrect. So be it. 

 

Rolls Royce is just cursed. Aren't they the engine providers on the 787's that Norwegian Air is having issues with?

[John&LaLa]

2 minutes ago, Host Clarea said:

 

Would they not have some reluctance to do a TA with only two pods functioning?

 

Are the other two functioning that well?

 

As with Oasis, they really wanted to tune her up in Freeport prior to the crossing. 

 

I'm really thinking about stockpiling supplies (beer, wine, and crisps) for our crossing😇

Edited July 11, 2019 by John&LaLa

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, twodaywonder said:

All I did was repeat what I read on the internet. Guess everyone incorrect but you. Why is it you always like going after anything i say? The 6-9% in fuel savings and the control over the ship is what I read. Not what I made up. On one cruise I was taken below deck by the chief engineer and given a lot of information on the pods. What he told me does not reflect what you are saying. Guess you are smarter than he is.

As for the Azipods, it clearly indicated they have more problems. However, you are always the very smart one and I am always incorrect. So be it. 

Not picking on you, just correcting information when I see it, never said it was made up.  Things you read on the internet are basically advertising copy, and the manufacturers will tell you anything.  As I say, there are savings with pods, in fuel efficiency, and in capital cost, but there are drawbacks as well, such as not being able to repair the pods without drydocking, something that shafted propellers can do with divers, or internally in the ship.

 

There are more problems with azipods, because there are more azipods than Mermaids.  There are a grand total of 50 Mermaid pods in use around the world, small and large, on cruise ships and others.  ABB has just taken their 100th cruise ship order, and since each cruise ship has at least 2 azipods, that means there are at least 200 azipods, just on cruise ships, not to mention the ferries, offshore supply vessels, and ice breakers.  And I read that the new Mermaid pods are focusing in the market for under 7Mw, so hardly in the cruise ship market.  ABB has never had a lawsuit against their pods, even with the difficulties they've had, while Rolls Royce had two almost a decade ago.  And, the newer XO model azipods, which came out just as Allure was being built, and which equip all newer vessels, has corrected the issue with changing thrust bearings, and these can now be done internally, without drydocking.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Are the other two functioning that well?

 

As with Oasis, they really wanted to tune her up in Freeport prior to the crossing. 

 

I'm really thinking about stockpiling supplies (beer, wine, and crisps) for our crossing😇

That all depends on when they were last overhauled, and how many running hours since.  Oasis' case, was that they knew the life of the bearings would likely not make it to the scheduled drydock in the fall, so they were going to renew two pods' bearings in Freeport (they can only do two each time because there are only two cofferdams).  RCI is going off their cumulative failure database, and ABB's worldwide database as well, to predict when bearing failure could occur, and preemptively renew them before a problem happens.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Host Clarea said:

 

Would they not have some reluctance to do a TA with only two pods functioning?

Probably not.  Again, most ships only have two.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not picking on you, just correcting information when I see it, never said it was made up.  Things you read on the internet are basically advertising copy, and the manufacturers will tell you anything.  As I say, there are savings with pods, in fuel efficiency, and in capital cost, but there are drawbacks as well, such as not being able to repair the pods without drydocking, something that shafted propellers can do with divers, or internally in the ship.

 

There are more problems with azipods, because there are more azipods than Mermaids.  There are a grand total of 50 Mermaid pods in use around the world, small and large, on cruise ships and others.  ABB has just taken their 100th cruise ship order, and since each cruise ship has at least 2 azipods, that means there are at least 200 azipods, just on cruise ships, not to mention the ferries, offshore supply vessels, and ice breakers.  And I read that the new Mermaid pods are focusing in the market for under 7Mw, so hardly in the cruise ship market.  ABB has never had a lawsuit against their pods, even with the difficulties they've had, while Rolls Royce had two almost a decade ago.  And, the newer XO model azipods, which came out just as Allure was being built, and which equip all newer vessels, has corrected the issue with changing thrust bearings, and these can now be done internally, without drydocking.

Not going to reply. Not worth the aggravation. According to you, Guess you can change a prop without going into dry dock.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not picking on you, just correcting information when I see it, never said it was made up.  Things you read on the internet are basically advertising copy, and the manufacturers will tell you anything.  As I say, there are savings with pods, in fuel efficiency, and in capital cost, but there are drawbacks as well, such as not being able to repair the pods without drydocking, something that shafted propellers can do with divers, or internally in the ship.

 

There are more problems with azipods, because there are more azipods than Mermaids.  There are a grand total of 50 Mermaid pods in use around the world, small and large, on cruise ships and others.  ABB has just taken their 100th cruise ship order, and since each cruise ship has at least 2 azipods, that means there are at least 200 azipods, just on cruise ships, not to mention the ferries, offshore supply vessels, and ice breakers.  And I read that the new Mermaid pods are focusing in the market for under 7Mw, so hardly in the cruise ship market.  ABB has never had a lawsuit against their pods, even with the difficulties they've had, while Rolls Royce had two almost a decade ago.  And, the newer XO model azipods, which came out just as Allure was being built, and which equip all newer vessels, has corrected the issue with changing thrust bearings, and these can now be done internally, without drydocking.

FYI Mermaid post are manufactured by Rolls Royce. Here is one place you might want to read. 

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2019/05/allure-of-the-seas-slow-steaming-for-5-months-due-to-continued-azipod-problems/

[Clarea]

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Probably not.  Again, most ships only have two.

 

Gotcha.

[Charles4515]

56 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

She can still make 16-17 knots on two pods.

 

I am doing a western so I am not concerned about the slight changes to the western itinerary due to the reduced speed. My concern is that they will take it out of service for a dry dock the week of my sailing. But that does not seem likely unless they get the dry dock they can use in Freeport back in service. Or another pod failure requires them to take it to Europe.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, twodaywonder said:

Not going to reply. Not worth the aggravation. According to you, Guess you can change a prop without going into dry dock.

Well, actually, the US Navy does it all the time for their nuclear ballistic missile submarines.  But, guess what, you don't have to remove the propeller to renew the thrust bearings in the new XO azipods.

[Clarea]

2 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

I am doing a western so I am not concerned about the slight changes to the western itinerary due to the reduced speed. My concern is that they will take it out of service for a dry dock the week of my sailing. But that does not seem likely unless they get the dry dock they can use in Freeport back in service. Or another pod failure requires them to take it to Europe.

 

I'd be surprised if they try that partial dry dock thing in Freeport again. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, twodaywonder said:

FYI Mermaid post are manufactured by Rolls Royce. Here is one place you might want to read. 

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2019/05/allure-of-the-seas-slow-steaming-for-5-months-due-to-continued-azipod-problems/

 

 

2 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

And, actually, the Rolls Royce Mermaid pods were the cause of the lawsuit against Rolls Royce by Carnival Corp and RCI ($24 million and $65 million) for defects in their pods, and the reason that Mermaid pods have far and away less market share than ABB's azipod.  Since the Mermaid pods on the Celebrity ships, RCI has not used Rolls Royce, and I'm not sure any cruise ship installed Mermaid pods after these two lawsuits

As I said, Mermaid pods are made by Rolls Royce.  Guess you didn't read that part.  The fact is, Allure of the Seas does not have Mermaid pods, it has ABB azipods.  And, as I said above, as well, I can't think of a major cruise line that has installed a Mermaid pod since the QM2 in 2004.

 

 

[acpalmer]

I don’t know the typical speed of an Oasis class, but we were just on the June 16th sailing of the Allure and almost every time we turned on the ship channel on the TV, it showed our speed as somewhere between 18.2 and 18.6 knots. One day it was 16.1 the two times I looked, but that was the day we skipped Labadee due to the turn back to San Juan the day before for the medical emergency, so I think we had time to kill from the skipped stop. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by acpalmer

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Host Clarea said:

 

I'd be surprised if they try that partial dry dock thing in Freeport again. 

From what I've heard, the dock in Freeport is a total loss, and they are trying to find a replacement.  They are also looking to get financing and permits to build a graving dock there that could handle the Oasis class ships, but that's years down the road.

[Clarea]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

From what I've heard, the dock in Freeport is a total loss, and they are trying to find a replacement.  They are also looking to get financing and permits to build a graving dock there that could handle the Oasis class ships, but that's years down the road.

 

So nothing like what they had at Freeport on the East Coast, that is not military?

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, actually, the US Navy does it all the time for their nuclear ballistic missile submarines.  But, guess what, you don't have to remove the propeller to renew the thrust bearings in the new XO azipods.

I said nothing about any bearings. As is the problem with this pod. I am sure you have a lot more education than I have ever had. I am pro efficient on only two subjects and this is not one of them. Your knowledge is vast unlike mine.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Host Clarea said:

 

So nothing like what they had at Freeport on the East Coast, that is not military?

No.   No floating docks big enough, even to try the cofferdam thing, the largest have been sold/moved to the West Coast.  Most of the graving docks that do commercial work on the East Coast wouldn't hold the Vista, let alone Allure.  I believe Grand Bahamas is trying to purchase a floating dock from China or Singapore.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Not going to reply. Not worth the aggravation. According to you, Guess you can change a prop without going into dry dock.

 

1 hour ago, twodaywonder said:

I said nothing about any bearings. As is the problem with this pod. I am sure you have a lot more education than I have ever had. I am pro efficient on only two subjects and this is not one of them. Your knowledge is vast unlike mine.

Well, if you weren't referring to the repairs on Allure, to what were you referring about changing a prop without going into a drydock?  Very confused, or do you believe the Allure's problem is with the propeller?  It isn't, it's the bearings.  

 

 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Well, if you weren't referring to the repairs on Allure, to what were you referring about changing a prop without going into a drydock?  Very confused, or do you believe the Allure's problem is with the propeller?  It isn't, it's the bearings.  

 

 

I was replying to this. "As I say, there are savings with pods, in fuel efficiency, and in capital cost, but there are drawbacks as well, such as not being able to repair the pods without drydocking, something that shafted propellers can do with divers, or internally in the ship" You mention nothing about bearings. Just repairing. You do say shafted PROPELLERS. Not bearings.