Ultimate World Cruise 245 days and all the parts. Ongoing review, questions, opinion

[Jim Avery]

Here's hoping Greenwich is in yall's future Andy.  

And Ragnar, good point about Polio.  Most vulnerable were children, opposite what the present virus seems to attack.  Kids in our school died or were horribly crippled.  Yet the world did not collapse.  Dad still went to work.  The Yankees still played ball, life went on while waiting for a brilliant Doctor named Jonas Salk to come up with an effective vaccine.  My earlier point is not to diminish the severity of the new virus.  Though it seems to have a similar mortality rate or even less to any number of earlier disease outbreaks in human history, my point is the rapid, willing, early collapsing of collective world economies and ways of life.  The few thousand that have died, while certainly to be mourned, are such a tiny portion of 7 billion or so souls on the planet.  Collective government action, as we have seen time and time again, once done is more easily done the next time.  It could be said the "cure" is worse than the disease.  How many times can we ruin the livelihood of millions?  Next time, and there always is a next time, the actions and panic will be worse.  Again, not to diminish the seriousness of any disease outbreak but the collective responses of our government, and the promised bailouts to come are taking us into a perilous place financially.  Throughout history, when economies break down, the results are not pretty.  

[Captain_Morgan]

22 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Here's hoping Greenwich is in yall's future Andy.  

And Ragnar, good point about Polio.  Most vulnerable were children, opposite what the present virus seems to attack.  Kids in our school died or were horribly crippled.  Yet the world did not collapse.  Dad still went to work.  The Yankees still played ball, life went on while waiting for a brilliant Doctor named Jonas Salk to come up with an effective vaccine.  My earlier point is not to diminish the severity of the new virus.  Though it seems to have a similar mortality rate or even less to any number of earlier disease outbreaks in human history, my point is the rapid, willing, early collapsing of collective world economies and ways of life.  The few thousand that have died, while certainly to be mourned, are such a tiny portion of 7 billion or so souls on the planet.  Collective government action, as we have seen time and time again, once done is more easily done the next time.  It could be said the "cure" is worse than the disease.  How many times can we ruin the livelihood of millions?  Next time, and there always is a next time, the actions and panic will be worse.  Again, not to diminish the seriousness of any disease outbreak but the collective responses of our government, and the promised bailouts to come are taking us into a perilous place financially.  Throughout history, when economies break down, the results are not pretty.  

 

Part of the issue as well has been the massively delayed response to the issue from the offset.  China had its outbreak and no doubt wasn't giving the whole truth about just how bad their issues were, and as such it was allowed to spread rapidly.  

Not to politicize the issue on a travel forum, but its no secret that the world's biggest economies and so-called most powerful nations have dropped the ball and tried to convince the world there was nothing to see here....and now the aftermath of such ignorance is on full display.

Its all well and good saying that access to the country from China was blocked, but its very much a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted and hoping if you tell people there never was a horse they might actually believe you...

[Jim Avery]

Captain Morgan, I agree with you.  And to China, I learned about the Black Death that decimated a good portion of Europe.  It originated in Asia, in what we now call China.  I wonder how that part of the world has been a starting point for so many of the  epidemics of history?  Epidemic/Pandemic merely linguistics.  If you have X countries involved, it is a pandemic.  X-1 is still a "mere" epidemic.  No difference in the severity of the effects, just more countries.  I just really do not like the governments (not just ours) huge overreaction to being, as you say, closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.  We are all exposed daily to a smorgasbord of disease.  This too will work its way around the globe no matter what.  The government inspired panic is rather ugly.  For example, we made our usual weekly run to WalMart this morning.  They have a few things no one else around here carries.  Sister Schubert's rolls for one.  It looked like High Noon.  People rushing about slinging stuff into carts.  Of course the paper products aisle was picked clean.  Several men standing there determined to wait for the next shipment.  No one could tell me when that will be but they are going to stay there till they get their TP.  For all the hoarders out there, a simple question:  How much TP is enough?  100 rolls, 200?  A thousand??  Get a grip folks.  Even in the most "at risk" demographic (which I am a part of) of all those who catch covid19, 90% survive.  For all others it is about like normal flu mortality rates.  Some will get it, some will die.  Most will not.  But the damage to millions of workers and economies in general will be far more reaching.  

[Wendy The Wanderer]

3 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

And Ragnar, good point about Polio.  Most vulnerable were children, opposite what the present virus seems to attack.  Kids in our school died or were horribly crippled.  Yet the world did not collapse.  Dad still went to work.  The Yankees still played ball, life went on while waiting for a brilliant Doctor named Jonas Salk to come up with an effective vaccine.

 

And our parents went through hell worrying about the health and lives of their children.  My mother spent summers at the family farm with my brother to get away from the congestion of the big city of Montreal.  We had family friends who lost children or whose children wound up in iron lungs.  I have had adult friends and acquaintances who were survivors and still suffer from the effects of this awful disease.  Salk vaccine came along when I was seven,  we all screamed while they jabbed us, and our parents breathed a huge sigh of release!

 

And oh, I have read that survivors of covid-19 may very well have permanent lung damage.

[OnTheJourney]

Jim, I just saw some of what you're alluding to. TP supplies - interesting how we've reached a rather bizarre point where those two letters are readily recognized as 'toilet paper'...who would have anticipated it around Christmas - were decimated in our local Redner's. As in...gone. Same for hand sanitizer. A dearth of bottled water too. No bananas (wasn't there a song about that?) either. My apologies for really getting on a 'high horse' (was it the one that bolted away?) with the most recent posts. After grocery shopping today, I'm recognizing a way overblown and undeserved level of panic. There is not a single case of CV in my entire county and yet can't find a single roll of TP?  That's insanity. So, yeah, starting to wonder about the level of government intervention being just a tad over-the-top. Not a bad thing from the perspective of needing to "flatten the curve" of emerging cases, but the level of emotional, panicky response seems to be exponentiating out of control. 

 

The relative of mine I referred to earlier also developed post-polio syndrome which just continued to weaken him throughout the remainder of his (relatively short) life. Doctors didn't even fully know how to deal with the post syndrome. Guess there is nothing they can do about it. Iron lung....yeah....what a way to spend your life. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Jim Avery]

As a possible lighter thought as well as trying to tie it in to this thread about a journey supposed to end in England, I will relate part of a recent conversation with my 94 year old mother from England.  Discussing the current situation and the insane panic buying, she reminded me that when she was growing up in wartime England they had no TP.  Loo paper for all you Brits out there.  Instead, her father cut up the newspaper into squares and hung a pad of them in the loo.  Mom says if you crumpled them and straightened them out a few times it was not bad.  Too bad very few read paper news these days.  Guess we will have to use the ever present Chicos catalogs.....😱

[OnTheJourney]

Speaking of TP....this is worth a watch.... 

 

[OnTheJourney]

8 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

As a possible lighter thought as well as trying to tie it in to this thread about a journey supposed to end in England, I will relate part of a recent conversation with my 94 year old mother from England.  Discussing the current situation and the insane panic buying, she reminded me that when she was growing up in wartime England they had no TP.  Loo paper for all you Brits out there.  Instead, her father cut up the newspaper into squares and hung a pad of them in the loo.  Mom says if you crumpled them and straightened them out a few times it was not bad.  Too bad very few read paper news these days.  Guess we will have to use the ever present Chicos catalogs.....😱

 

Well, my grandfather always used to joke about maybe having to use the Sears & Roebuck catalog (which was really big, ya know?) if things got desperate....

Edited March 17, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Captain_Morgan]

Jim - you're not wrong with the sentiments that the public have lost their ever-loving minds when it comes to panic buying...and TP of all things?!?  We were in our local Target & Walmart yesterday and many shelves were barren, as were many of the freezers so i guess there's going to be a lot of people eating 'Hungry Man' dinners and using TP as napkins?!? 😏

 

As an aside, with the Sun having recently stocked up on TP (i presume) in Sri Lanka with an aim to call into Oman next if they're able, I don't think there's many if any more places along the way between there and the UK that will have them.  Wonder how many of these intrepid travelers will be stowing TP in their luggage for the trip home 'just in case' 🤣

[Jim Avery]

10 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Jim - you're not wrong with the sentiments that the public have lost their ever-loving minds when it comes to panic buying...and TP of all things?!?  We were in our local Target & Walmart yesterday and many shelves were barren, as were many of the freezers so i guess there's going to be a lot of people eating 'Hungry Man' dinners and using TP as napkins?!? 😏

 

As an aside, with the Sun having recently stocked up on TP (i presume) in Sri Lanka with an aim to call into Oman next if they're able, I don't think there's many if any more places along the way between there and the UK that will have them.  Wonder how many of these intrepid travelers will be stowing TP in their luggage for the trip home 'just in case' 🤣

Hopefully they will ship a pallet or two from ships now out of service to the good old Viking Sun.

[DaveSJ711]

2 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Captain Morgan, I agree with you.  And to China, I learned about the Black Death that decimated a good portion of Europe.  It originated in Asia, in what we now call China.  I wonder how that part of the world has been a starting point for so many of the  epidemics of history?  Epidemic/Pandemic merely linguistics.  If you have X countries involved, it is a pandemic.  X-1 is still a "mere" epidemic.  No difference in the severity of the effects, just more countries.  I just really do not like the governments (not just ours) huge overreaction to being, as you say, closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.  We are all exposed daily to a smorgasbord of disease.  This too will work its way around the globe no matter what.  The government inspired panic is rather ugly.  For example, we made our usual weekly run to WalMart this morning.  They have a few things no one else around here carries.  Sister Schubert's rolls for one.  It looked like High Noon.  People rushing about slinging stuff into carts.  Of course the paper products aisle was picked clean.  Several men standing there determined to wait for the next shipment.  No one could tell me when that will be but they are going to stay there till they get their TP.  For all the hoarders out there, a simple question:  How much TP is enough?  100 rolls, 200?  A thousand??  Get a grip folks.  Even in the most "at risk" demographic (which I am a part of) of all those who catch covid19, 90% survive.  For all others it is about like normal flu mortality rates.  Some will get it, some will die.  Most will not.  But the damage to millions of workers and economies in general will be far more reaching.  

Quite a few people would use different words than “huge overreaction” to describe what governments are doing to respond to a global pandemic.  How about “too little too late”?

Edited March 17, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[Liz Masterson]

NY Gov. Cuomo’s Press Conference’s on both March 16 and 17 were enlightening in a terrifyingly way. I suggest everyone watch them. The science and math is eye opening. Don’t be fooled. This is not the flu. Italian Hospital’s are deciding who they have ICU beds for and who they don’t. If you are 80 you are not getting a bed as the younger people have a better chance of surviving if they have that bed. And they have more beds per person than we do. 
 

It’s going to get ugly. 
I will be overjoyed to discover I am wrong and the naysayers are right. 

[OnTheJourney]

19 minutes ago, Liz Masterson said:

 

It’s going to get ugly. 
 

 

I've seen some of that, as well as various scenarios of total numbers of people (potentially) affected and, as you say, the shortage of beds and treatment. This is why we MUST start to flatten the curve. I'm sure it was all well and good for the tourists to have a big blow-out celebration the night before Disneyworld closed, but...really?  From the standpoint of community spread, not the best thing to do. My Mom is 97 and in an assisted living facility (currently on lockdown like most of them) so....yeah....if things turn bad, obviously she's off the list for treatment compared to younger people. Hoping for the best...for all of us. 

 

You know, I really hate to say this here, but given this article..  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/coronavirus-spreading-in-london-fastest-in-uk    wouldn't it really be best if the Sun headed for London now - end the WC as fast as possible before things get worse?  You've got a ship full of people who aren't infected, and now are going to bring them off and possibly expose them to it depending on how it's all handled. I'm just thinking of the well being of the passengers. I get the idea of wanting to break the record for the longest WC, but I think it's time to place that goal in perspective. I'll probably take some flack for saying this (?)  

Edited March 17, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[DaveSJ711]

7 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

 

I've seen some of that, as well as various scenarios of total numbers of people (potentially) affected and, as you say, the shortage of beds and treatment. This is why we MUST start to flatten the curve. I'm sure it was all well and good for the tourists to have a big blow-out celebration the night before Disneyworld closed, but...really?  From the standpoint of community spread, not the best thing to do. My Mom is 97 and in an assisted living facility (currently on lockdown like most of them) so....yeah....if things turn bad, obviously she's off the list for treatment compared to younger people. Hoping for the best...for all of us. 

 

You know, I really hate to say this here, but given this article..  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/coronavirus-spreading-in-london-fastest-in-uk    wouldn't it really be best if the Sun headed for London now - end the WC as fast as possible before things get worse?  You've got a ship full of people who aren't infected, and now are going to bring them off and possibly expose them to it depending on how it's all handled. I'm just thinking of the well being of the passengers. I get the idea of wanting to break the record for the longest WC, but I think it's time to place that goal in perspective. I'll probably take some flack for saying this (?)  

Not from me.  Trying to break a record for the longest WC, right in the middle of a global pandemic, is equivalent to whistling past the proverbial graveyard.

[Gigiandbaba]

35 minutes ago, Liz Masterson said:

NY Gov. Cuomo’s Press Conference’s on both March 16 and 17 were enlightening in a terrifyingly way. I suggest everyone watch them. The science and math is eye opening. Don’t be fooled. This is not the flu. Italian Hospital’s are deciding who they have ICU beds for and who they don’t. If you are 80 you are not getting a bed as the younger people have a better chance of surviving if they have that bed. And they have more beds per person than we do. 
 

It’s going to get ugly. 
I will be overjoyed to discover I am wrong and the naysayers are right. 

I just read the things than NYGov Cuomo said and they are quite frightening. It is amazing that a few days ago, the whole country had 1500 cases, and now NY alone has1500 cases.  The number of hospital beds is the critical point, hence the absolute need to "flatten the curve".

[Azulann]

29 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

Not from me.  Trying to break a record for the longest WC, right in the middle of a global pandemic, is equivalent to whistling past the proverbial graveyard.

 I do believe you have the making of a great novel in the above stentence. What a plot line.

Hope some writers read Viking Fourm.

 

[Floridiana]

3 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Wonder how many of these intrepid travelers will be stowing TP in their luggage for the trip home 'just in case' 🤣

I have just come back from Rio de Janeiro. One American Airlines passenger told us his wife asked him to bring toilet paper. There was none to be had  in her Chicago neighborhood.

[Captain_Morgan]

6 minutes ago, Floridiana said:

I have just come back from Rio de Janeiro. One American Airlines passenger told us his wife asked him to bring toilet paper. There was none to be had  in her Chicago neighborhood.

 

In all honesty I was 60/40 serious/joking 🤭

[larry1365]

18 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

 

Jim, I understand your thoughts, but if everyone adopted the "live free or die" New Hampshire motto - which I can also understand - it will only serve to further the spread of what is not simply an epidemic, but a pandemic. I must admit to being sort of taken aback given your apparent implication that COVID-19 is merely just another 'one of those things' that defines our mortality in a given space and time. I believe an important thing you're ignoring here is that it's much bigger than just another means by which people might leave this earth. Comparing this to old age, heart disease, etc. falls far short of the mark relative to the large-scale ramifications. It is far more wide-reaching in that it is affecting at least the immediate future of - just to name a few  things - global commerce, business, education, economic stability, worldwide healthcare, and...yes...the travel industry - something near and dear to all of us here on CC especially. If we're not all willing to sacrifice some (or maybe even most) of our personal freedoms - that we all probably take for granted anyway - in the interest of maybe saving lives beyond that of our own, then it would seem that there is indeed an unfortunate self-serving motive at play. 

 

I admit to likely being a bit over-the-top in how I responded to Andy, since I suspect there was no harm or insult meant, but please understand that, here on land, we are living this right now - as you well know. So I guess it just hit me the wrong way reading such a 'life is great out here on the water' post and probably misconstrued. 

 

It's surely no secret to anyone here on CC that being on a cruise ship is a temporary and artificial environment compared to when the trip ends and we get back to "reality". THIS new reality - for however long it lasts - just seems to be getting more daunting in its scope and large-scale impact as each day progresses. If you don't wish to "give up everything enjoyable" and go about your usual way, that's totally your call, but I pray two things - 1) that you personally don't contract CV and, more importantly - 2) if you do and don't even realize it right away, that you don't wind up going around enjoying your usual freedoms while just possibly being a "super spreader" at worst, or just infecting others at the least. My prayers extend to all on the Sun, as well as those on any other ships that have not yet reached home, and I hope that all of you never have to worry about whether or not there is a health professional available, IF needed, to "save" you in the event that you become one of the close to 200k people who have CV. At such a point, you may well wish to be 'saved' more than you seem to be indicating. 

 

 "Death is a part of living. No-one gets out alive". Yes...absolutely true. We all owe a death. There are no exceptions, but you might feel a bit differently if someone close to you winds up suffering from the symptoms of the virus - especially if it could be determined that he/she got it by someone that chose to not observe recommended self-quarantine and instead decided to 'not give up' the usual liberties of going out and about at will and thus infected someone dear to you. 

 

Stay healthy. No offense intended, really. Please accept that emotions are running, shall we say, a bit 'high' of late. I had to cancel my cruise that was to start this week. I've been looking forward to it for months - so, again, reading a 'having a great time on our cruise' -type post just didn't sit well. I don't begrudge the experience on the Sky, but perhaps a bit more humility would serve Andy better at times like this?  I have not been involved in any sort of previous epidemics, etc. so perhaps have a different take on all this than you do as well.  

 

An excellent reply to Jim Avery's mindset. Over 75, with a wife with underlying lung issues. We have self-quarantined, except for long walks on the Southern California seashore. Our daughter and two grandkids delivered groceries today to our condo doorway and stood outside for a chat. Our Brooklyn daughter is in the midst of a hotspot and is also taking extreme precautions, but is terribly worried about us. Yes, American life has shut down, and should,  as we and more and more Americans and communities are beginning to realize. People with opposing attitudes don't help.

 

[Jim Avery]

My "mindset"?  You get to determine who is right and who is wrong?  My whole point, as I have explained to more receptive minds is that this is a bad virus but not necessarily much worse than H1N1, SARS or any number of others.  Look up H1N1 that happened during the last administration.  We hardly heard of it on the media, certainly no 24 hour "fear the reaper" scares like at present.  I am practicing recommended activities as are you but insulting people with "opposing attitudes" is counter productive and actually quite tedious.  This country was created out of differing attitudes from differing people from differing places.  The only thing that works is freedom of thought/speech and reasonable compromise among rational adults. 

All the best to you and yours Larry.

[OnTheJourney]

I think I sort of 'stirred up a hornet's nest' and truly didn't mean to. As I said, emotions are running high right now. This situation is so pervasive and has created a lot of stress. Jim got me thinking after he mentioned other epidemics that have taken place. So I did some research and came across this rather interesting site. It mentions that H1N1 killed 284,000 globally, but the mortality rate was only .02%. COVID-19, by comparison, is listed as an overall rate of 3.4% (but does say that certain areas are only experiencing .4%). I'm not trying to draw any hard and fast conclusions by mentioning the article, but just thought - since it's under discussion at the moment - it'd help offer additional facts and figures. This article is even more interesting since it goes back so much farther. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

48 minutes ago, larry1365 said:

 

 Over 75, with a wife with underlying lung issues. We have self-quarantined, except for long walks on the Southern California seashore. Our daughter and two grandkids delivered groceries today to our condo doorway and stood outside for a chat. Our Brooklyn daughter is in the midst of a hotspot and is also taking extreme precautions, but is terribly worried about us. Yes, American life has shut down, and should,  as we and more and more Americans and communities are beginning to realize. People with opposing attitudes don't help.

 

 

It's a tough situation when you have family members separated from each other due to various stages of quarantining. The less societal contact, hopefully the faster the number of cases starts to decline. The larger concern in shutting so much down is to buy time for the health care industry since I don't think the reports of not enough beds and other treatment facilities is exaggerated. Wish it was. Have to be impressed with how China erected two new hospitals in Wuhan in a matter of days. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[aungrl]

Andy, how was the day today?  Looking forward to reading your next blog update, as well as anything you might post here, too.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I say we take our pitchforks down to all the closed schools and demand their TP!  Who’s with me?  (We will maintain six foot social separations as we mob the schools. And only be mildly angry.)

[Jim Avery]

2 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I say we take our pitchforks down to all the closed schools and demand their TP!  Who’s with me?  (We will maintain six foot social separations as we mob the schools. And only be mildly angry.)

And just think of all the stored up pallets of TP in the now laid up cruise ships.😎