How does Regent determine gateway airports?

[makai 7]

I am trying to find some semblance of logic in the selection of Gateway airports.

It cannot be based on the number of passengers, the local population density, or whether the airport is a hub.

Why do I ask?

Jacksonville Florida is not a gateway, but Savannah Georgia is??

JAX served 6,460,253 passengers in 2018, where Savannah served 2,799,526.

JAX has about 68,000 commercial flights per year, Savannah has about 26,600

 

I would like to know why I have to pay extra fees to fly out of Jacksonville.   I certainly will not drive to Orlando or Savannah just to be routed to Atlanta anyway for a connection on an international flight.

I think it is time that Regent reevaluates their customer base and selection of gateway airports.

[UUNetBill]

1 minute ago, makai 7 said:

I am trying to find some semblance of logic in the selection of Gateway airports.

It cannot be based on the number of passengers, the local population density, or whether the airport is a hub.

Why do I ask?

Jacksonville Florida is not a gateway, but Savannah Georgia is??

JAX served 6,460,253 passengers in 2018, where Savannah served 2,799,526.

JAX has about 68,000 commercial flights per year, Savannah has about 26,600

 

I would like to know why I have to pay extra fees to fly out of Jacksonville.   I certainly will not drive to Orlando or Savannah just to be routed to Atlanta anyway for a connection on an international flight.

I think it is time that Regent reevaluates their customer base and selection of gateway airports.

I don’t know the criteria so this is just a guess, but I’d assume it’s a combination of the factors you mentioned above in conjunction with the number of expected passengers from each gateway and the contracted costs.  And looking at Florida, Regent already offers flights from Miami and Orlando so maybe they thought a third gateway there didn’t make financial sense - maybe Savannah could service northern FL as well as Eastern GA and the Carolina coastal regions.

 

I’d say you’d probably be better off booking your own air from JAX if you don’t like the 2 hour drive to either of the other airports.

 

FWIW, we have a 1:45 drive to CLT for our departures and just kind of figure this into our trip planning.  I don’t see Regent making GSP a gateway airport...

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I believe Tampa is a hub too.  Not sure why Jacksonville wouldn't be, but I guess Savannah represents that stretch of Atlantic coast that's otherwise hub-less.  But it definitely seems like an anomaly.

[FlyerTalker]

Preface with the disclaimer that I have no specialized information on Regent's policies or internal decisions.

 

The choice of the various "air inclusive gateways" is likely due to a combination of three factors:

 

1)  Availability of international flights at those airports

2)  Availability of a contract with an airline for flights from those airports

3)  Analysis of the geographical distribution of past Regent customers and the catchment areas associated.

 

Here is a map of the gateways for reference:

 

 

The airports that are not significant departure points for international flights would include San Diego, Phoenix, Savannah, Tampa, West Palm and Fort Lauderdale.  (And yes, some do have international flights but only a few daily).   Apparently, Regent has concluded that there is a sufficient concentration of cruisers in the catchment area to justify including them as part of the air contracts.

 

Note the large swaths of the country that are not served by a Regent gateway, including major population centers.  Why have they not been included?  Likely because the number of cruisers in those areas doesn't justify making contractual arrangements.  Remember, it's not as if Regent just calls up XYZ airlines for seats on an ad-hoc basis.  Regent (and all cruiselines) make commitments for guaranteed seat purchases in the various markets.  So having many "gateways" increases the cost exposure to the cruiseline.

 

Finally, as to the question about Savannah vs Jacksonville:  Although JAX itself may have more air traffic and population than SAV, look at the geography.  Consider the triangle from Charlotte to Atlanta to Orlando.  To serve that area, it seems that Regent has decided that that more central SAV location works better for the mass of their market within that catchment area.  In addition, it is closer to the upscale retirement areas of South Carolina.  This is undoubtedly at work, as one can note the inclusion of West Palm Beach as a gateway.  With Miami and Fort Lauderdale already as gateways, the only reason would be the demographics of retired cruisers who live in the area of PBI and up the coast.

 

And for reference, here are some of the metropolitan areas that are larger than Jacksonville which are also not Regent gateways:  San Antonio, Portland, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Austin, Columbus, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Nashville and Norfolk. 

[Flgreg]

Tampa is definitely a gateway airport for Regent.

[FlyerTalker]

6 hours ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

I believe Tampa is a hub too.  Not sure why Jacksonville wouldn't be, but I guess Savannah represents that stretch of Atlantic coast that's otherwise hub-less.  But it definitely seems like an anomaly.

 

Please remember that "hub" has a specific meaning in the airline industry.

 

It's used to designate an airport where routes and schedules are designed to take passengers from a number of outlying markets (spokes), bring them in to a central transfer point (hub), and then send them out to a similar number of other outlying markets (spokes).  Major primary hubs for the main USA carriers:

 

AA:  Chicago, Philadelphia, Charlotte, Miami, Phoenix, Dallas, Los Angeles

UA:  Newark, Chicago, Houston, Denver, Dulles, San Francisco, Los Angeles

DL:   Boston, LaGuardia, JFK, Detroit, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle, Salt Lake, Los Angeles

AS:   Seattle, Portland, Anchorage, San Francisco, Los Angeles

 

Southwest doesn't operate a hub & spoke system, though they do have some major connection points.  These include: Houston, Las Vegas, Chicago, Nashville, Baltimore, Dallas, Atlanta, St Louis and Phoenix.  WN calls these "focus cities".

 

Jet Blue also does not use hub & spoke, with focus cities in Boston, JFK, Orlando and Long Beach

 

Note that with the exceptions of Salt Lake, Portland and Anchorage - all are considered as gateways for Regent.

 

[makai 7]

Definitely some food for thought.  Thank you FlyerTalker - real data appeals to me!  I was referring to hubs as the airlines define them too...

It would be nice to get an official explanation from Regent.

UunetBill:  I  prefer to pay the "non-gateway" fee and have a 20 minute trip to the JAX airport, vs. A 3.5 hour drive to Orlando or a 2.5 hour ride to Savannah.   The additional costs for driving and long term parking would never make it worthwhile - plus all the additional travel time!

We book our own flights for domestic departures or drive a rental car to Miami and drop it off, but for international trips we prefer to let Regent manage everything- less stress and they have to deal with potential issues.

 

In 2016 we cruised 35 days on Oceania from Hong Kong to Istanbul; and the itinerary was changed to end in Athens due to political unrest.  Fortunately we used Oceania air so we didn't have to deal with flight changes.  Of course this was back when they offered upgrades to business class...

[ronrick1943]

It could also depend on what type of contract they can get from the airlines.  More seats open (that an airline needs to sale) the better the price for Regent.  Makes sense to me.  We live near Palm Springs, and always fly out of San Diego or LAX.  I should say we fly to SAN/LAX out of Palm Springs, spend the night before are flight.  

[UUNetBill]

20 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Preface with the disclaimer that I have no specialized information on Regent's policies or internal decisions.

 

The choice of the various "air inclusive gateways" is likely due to a combination of three factors:

 

1)  Availability of international flights at those airports

2)  Availability of a contract with an airline for flights from those airports

3)  Analysis of the geographical distribution of past Regent customers and the catchment areas associated.

 

Here is a map of the gateways for reference:

 

 

The airports that are not significant departure points for international flights would include San Diego, Phoenix, Savannah, Tampa, West Palm and Fort Lauderdale.  (And yes, some do have international flights but only a few daily).   Apparently, Regent has concluded that there is a sufficient concentration of cruisers in the catchment area to justify including them as part of the air contracts.

 

Note the large swaths of the country that are not served by a Regent gateway, including major population centers.  Why have they not been included?  Likely because the number of cruisers in those areas doesn't justify making contractual arrangements.  Remember, it's not as if Regent just calls up XYZ airlines for seats on an ad-hoc basis.  Regent (and all cruiselines) make commitments for guaranteed seat purchases in the various markets.  So having many "gateways" increases the cost exposure to the cruiseline.

 

Finally, as to the question about Savannah vs Jacksonville:  Although JAX itself may have more air traffic and population than SAV, look at the geography.  Consider the triangle from Charlotte to Atlanta to Orlando.  To serve that area, it seems that Regent has decided that that more central SAV location works better for the mass of their market within that catchment area.  In addition, it is closer to the upscale retirement areas of South Carolina.  This is undoubtedly at work, as one can note the inclusion of West Palm Beach as a gateway.  With Miami and Fort Lauderdale already as gateways, the only reason would be the demographics of retired cruisers who live in the area of PBI and up the coast.

 

And for reference, here are some of the metropolitan areas that are larger than Jacksonville which are also not Regent gateways:  San Antonio, Portland, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Austin, Columbus, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Nashville and Norfolk. 

Man, I was like, “Whoa, someone sure put some actual research into this rather than just posting personal observations and guesses like that UUNetBill fella” and then I saw it was FlyerTalker and it all made sense.  😁

 

Thanks for laying that out!

 

14 hours ago, makai 7 said:

Definitely some food for thought.  Thank you FlyerTalker - real data appeals to me!  I was referring to hubs as the airlines define them too...

It would be nice to get an official explanation from Regent.

UunetBill:  I  prefer to pay the "non-gateway" fee and have a 20 minute trip to the JAX airport, vs. A 3.5 hour drive to Orlando or a 2.5 hour ride to Savannah.   The additional costs for driving and long term parking would never make it worthwhile - plus all the additional travel time!

We book our own flights for domestic departures or drive a rental car to Miami and drop it off, but for international trips we prefer to let Regent manage everything- less stress and they have to deal with potential issues.

 

In 2016 we cruised 35 days on Oceania from Hong Kong to Istanbul; and the itinerary was changed to end in Athens due to political unrest.  Fortunately we used Oceania air so we didn't have to deal with flight changes.  Of course this was back when they offered upgrades to business class...

Makai 7, I certainly understand the desire for being close to a gateway city.  Unfortunately those of us with some distance to a Regent gateway always have some extra calculations to make.  Drive to/park at gateway, rent a car, pay non-gateway fees, take air credit, etc.  Plus the variables all change based on cruise location, duration, etc. It sure would be great if every airport was a gateway, but obviously that’ll never happen.  For us, transportation to our gateway airport is just like trip insurance or dog boarding - it’s a vacation cost we just factor in when we’re shopping itineraries.

 

Me, I’m just waiting ‘til January for our next cruise (that we did our own air for because it made better sense on this particular cruise).  I guess as long as we get onboard it’s all good.   😁

[Wendy The Wanderer]

15 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Please remember that "hub" has a specific meaning in the airline industry.

 

Yes of course, but here it's used a different way, isn't it?  Regent may not refer to "hubs" itself, but we've gotten into the habit of doing so here, and we mean airports from which Regent includes air.  

 

Edited to add, I guess Regent calls them "gateways", so let's use that term.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Wendy The Wanderer

[UUNetBill]

1 minute ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

Yes of course, but here it's used a different way, isn't it?  Regent may not refer to "hubs" itself, but we've gotten into the habit of doing so here, and we mean airports from which Regent includes air.

I tend to call them gateways to avoid confusion, but I think most of us know what posters mean if they refer to a Regent hub city...

[SusieQft]

On 10/6/2019 at 7:44 AM, makai 7 said:

Jacksonville Florida is not a gateway, but Savannah Georgia is??

JAX served 6,460,253 passengers in 2018, where Savannah served 2,799,526.

 

I have read the great explanation by FlyerTalker, and I do understand why Regent limits the number of gateway cities.  But I still have to admit that now I am even more upset that Las Vegas is not a gateway.  Their passenger count for 2018 was 49,716,584, and consistently increasing so far for 2019.

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, SusieQft said:

I have read the great explanation by FlyerTalker, and I do understand why Regent limits the number of gateway cities.  But I still have to admit that now I am even more upset that Las Vegas is not a gateway.  Their passenger count for 2018 was 49,716,584, and consistently increasing so far for 2019.

 

Pretty irrelevant number, as the overwhelming majority are trips TO Las Vegas rather than origination numbers for round-trips starting in LAS.

 

On any given flight into LAS, I'd say that 90% are people heading into LV for business or vacation, with the other 10% being those who are returning to their homes.

[SusieQft]

On 10/6/2019 at 7:44 AM, makai 7 said:

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Pretty irrelevant number, as the overwhelming majority are trips TO Las Vegas rather than origination numbers for round-trips starting in LAS.

 

On any given flight into LAS, I'd say that 90% are people heading into LV for business or vacation, with the other 10% being those who are returning to their homes.

 

What difference does it make if the round trip flights originate in Las Vegas or elsewhere?  They are still one flight in one direction and one flight in the other direction.  

[FlyerTalker]

34 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

What difference does it make if the round trip flights originate in Las Vegas or elsewhere?  They are still one flight in one direction and one flight in the other direction.  

 

Because...for the purposes of being an international gateway for Regent, they are concerned with the number of folks who would be LEAVING from that airport to start a cruise.  It makes no impact if LAS is the destination for most folks, it's how many Regent cruisers would be STARTING their Regent flights from LAS.  So total flight operations means little.  Origination traffic matters, not overall.

[SusieQft]

8 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Because...for the purposes of being an international gateway for Regent, they are concerned with the number of folks who would be LEAVING from that airport to start a cruise.  It makes no impact if LAS is the destination for most folks, it's how many Regent cruisers would be STARTING their Regent flights from LAS.  So total flight operations means little.  Origination traffic matters, not overall.

 

Okay, I guess that does make sense, although I still don't like it.  😕  Thank you for explaining.

 

[Travelcat2]

18 hours ago, SusieQft said:

 

Okay, I guess that does make sense, although I still don't like it.  😕  Thank you for explaining.

 

 

Agree with FlyerTalker!  As much as we love Las Vegas, most of their outgoing flights are not going to Asia, Europe, South America, etc.  We are fortunate to live near Vancouver, British Columbia (even though we live in Washington state) because they have several international routes that we are able to take advantage of.  I suspect that if Las Vegas were a gateway, it would mean one (or two) domestic flights (that would be in coach) before heading out on an International Business Flight.

[rallydave]

On 10/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, Travelcat2 said:

Agree with FlyerTalker!  As much as we love Las Vegas, most of their outgoing flights are not going to Asia, Europe, South America, etc.  

Actually lots of non-stops to destinations outside the US.  Flyertalker's comments were not about flight availability  just that the high number of passengers being because LAS Vegas is the destination   "it's how many Regent cruisers would be STARTING their Regent flights from LAS.  So total flight operations means little.  Origination traffic matters, not overall."

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, rallydave said:

Actually lots of non-stops to destinations outside the US.  Flyertalker's comments were not about flight availability  just that the high number of passengers being because LAS Vegas is the destination   "it's how many Regent cruisers would be STARTING their Regent flights from LAS.  So total flight operations means little.  Origination traffic matters, not overall."

 

I understand what FlyerTalker has posted.  His depth of knowledge is quite impressive.  IMHO, he is the Regent expert on airlines/airfare and what Regent is likely to approve.  We should be happy that he is on the Regent board and is willing to share his knowledge. 

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

I understand what FlyerTalker has posted.  His depth of knowledge is quite impressive.  IMHO, he is the Regent expert on airlines/airfare and what Regent is likely to approve.  We should be happy that he is on the Regent board and is willing to share his knowledge. 

 

Thanks but...please, I am FAR from an expert.  Every day I find new things about the aviation industry and keep telling myself how lucky I am to be able to glean knowledge from the collective wisdom of those who post online.

 

Two big suggestions for all here on this forum.  First, there is a "Cruise Air" forum here on CC, where a lot of knowledgeable folk hang out.  It's a place to get information and insight and suggestions beyond just "Regent Air".  Combine with things from this group and you'll get extra insights.

 

The second is....if you want to start to delve into the world of being a savvy air consumer, beyond just cruise air,  try reading some airline and aviation blogs.  It's amazing what you can learn - and I read at least a dozen each day and pick up tips and tricks and, above all, insight into just what is happening in this industry which receives much of my disposable income.  One good source:

 

https://boardingarea.com/our-bloggers/

 

Some are excellent, some are acceptable at best.  You can eventually recognize those with real info and those who are self-promoters (and there are some).  My first suggestion:  https://viewfromthewing.com/ .  Informative and pretty spot on.  Easy to read and quite informative, especially his news stories of the day.  He's not a big hawker of credit card offers  (has a major CFO position himself) - there are some blogs that make all their money from CC referrals, and their content seems to be driving towards that.  But you'll learn who the touts are (cough, TPG, cough, FTG, cough) and who is real deal.

 

Again, thanks -- tell you what...you can buy me a drink on Regent sometime.  🙂  Until then, ask away your questions.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by FlyerTalker

[Travelcat2]

FlyerTalker - thank you - may check out some publications.  In terms of whether or not you are an expert, for years I’ve read posts regarding Regent Air, deviation (or Custom Air), etc. and found the need to, as nicely as possible, correct the poster.  Since you have been active on the Regent board, this no longer happens.  It is important (IMHO) for Regent passengers (present and future) to get the best information available on CC.  And, would love to buy you a drink on Regent.🙃