Art pricing

[20165]

Im sure this has been asked before, but i cant find the thread.  Has anyone compared the price of art purchased on the ship vs. what they can get it for on shore or is that even possible?  Everything i have read has said its a total rip off, however, someone must be buying it given it has been on every ship i have been on.  We have been interested in some of the art on previous cruises, but havent pursued it because we werent sure about pricing, process, etc.

Any info someone can give us or point us in the direction of a thread that discusses it is greatly appreciated.  

thanks

[alfaeric]

If you have an internet package, you can compare live at the event.

[20165]

17 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

If you have an internet package, you can compare live at the event.

Thanks, understand that, but compare with who?  For example, if i look up the artist Max which seems to be a popular one on the ships, the prices are really low, like $50 but are they the same type of prints that are on the ship?  Maybe the ones on the ship are signed and that may increase the value?  I dont mind paying somewhat of a premium on the ship, but if we are taking $50 vs. $500 thats a bit much.  I dont think that would be the case because no one would buy them, but i just want to get an idea what the off ship price is before i bid.  

thanks

 

[alfaeric]

All of the art I've seen listed on line has a description so that you can compare what you see on line vs what is in front of you.  

 

The biggest thing that determines price is rarity- the fewer the number, the more valuable.  Assuming, of course, that they have some kind of proof of the limited numbers being made.  So the difference between the $50 work and the $500 work is how many were made.  Add a signature- higher cost; live signature- even more; some artist embellishment- even more.  Then you get to the one of a kind stuff- and how those are made also matters- water color vs. oil on paper vs oil on canvas.  Or if it's a high end artist who has a very limited edition that they made into a one of a kind embellishment (which is common for Max)- that can add thousands.

 

So look into all of that, and if none of that really matters, then find that cool $50 Peter Max poster, and frame it- be happy.  If it does matter, try to figure out what combination you want, and a budget.

 

The real hard part is seeing huge variations of the exact same format- like there are oil on canvas originals you can get for $2000 from one artist, and then the same size of the same format for Peter Max will be $35,000.

 

The last thing about collecting anything- the value of it is only worth what you are willing to pay for it.  This should never, ever, be considered an investment.  If it ends up being that, good for your estate.  Only get what you are comfortable buying.  

[alfaeric]

BTW, plan on the auctioneer team pressuring you with the whole "prestige" of owning X BS.  I'm sure there are people out there who just love to show off their stuff- but it really should be about a piece of art that engages you and means something to you.  This should be a personal reaction, and with zero regard to what others would think.

 

That should help you focus on a price that you, personally, comfortable paying for something.

 

In the end, buying art on the ship is like buying anything else- do some homework, set limits, and stick to them.  

[time4u2go]

OP, are you looking to buy this art because you like the way it looks, and you want to hang it in your home?  Or are you buying it as an investment?

 

If it's because you like the way it looks, and you feel it's a fair price, then just buy it on the ship.  If you are buying it as an investment, I'd be very leery of buying it on a ship.

[cello56]

Remember too, that art only has financial value if you can find someone who is willing to buy it from you at the price you want to sell it fo. I think that a lot of the cost of on board ship art goes into the framing, not the art itself.

[mayleeman]

Read books 2 and 4 of Brian Bruns's "Cruise Confidential" series. He was an art auctioneer on board for a couple years in the mid 00's. A different company than Park West (although many people say it is virtually the same company), but the background about the art selling process is very detailed and educational in book 2.

[Merion_Mom]

5 hours ago, 20165 said:

Im sure this has been asked before, but i cant find the thread.  Has anyone compared the price of art purchased on the ship vs. what they can get it for on shore or is that even possible?  Everything i have read has said its a total rip off, however, someone must be buying it given it has been on every ship i have been on.  We have been interested in some of the art on previous cruises, but havent pursued it because we werent sure about pricing, process, etc.

Any info someone can give us or point us in the direction of a thread that discusses it is greatly appreciated.  

thanks

 

"Art" is only worth what someone will pay for it.  It has no intrinsic value.  If you see something that you like, and are willing to pay what they are asking, it's "a good buy".  If not,  it's not.

[smokeykat]

We like to go to the art auctions onboard. That said, I have never bought anything as most of the prints you can find online at a better price. There was an article last year in the NY Times about Peter Max having dementia and Park West Auctions. Google it.

I swear they had shills bidding this last cruise. Pictures were being bid on that in the past no one ever bid on before and for big money too! Just do your homework.

 

[matj2000]

Don't buy any Max work.

 

The dude has had dementia for a long time.

 

I have heard he has not done anything in years.  

 

His son & staff have been forging everything in his name..

[suesnake2002]

We bought some godards. If you google and look for specific pieces. In the same material. We buy signed prints on canvas. We have found prices about the same. Ya buy art cause you like it!! Not an investment. 

[mayleeman]

Just be careful not to accept any "free" artwork or accept a prize unless you are willing to pay as much as $100 or more in preparation and shipping fees. They make much of their money on sending the allegedly free stuff.

[20165]

Thanks for the responses, lots of good info. We'll check it out this time and see what happens. Regardless if we buy, i will be interesting to see what people are bidding on and how much...

thanks again

[alfaeric]

53 minutes ago, 20165 said:

Thanks for the responses, lots of good info. We'll check it out this time and see what happens. Regardless if we buy, i will be interesting to see what people are bidding on and how much...

thanks again

FWIW, most of the time, there isn't any actual bidding.  By that, I mean a person just randomly putting a bid in on a piece of art.  It happens, especially with the really cheap stuff, and some of the special things going on.  But most of the sold art is people who bid on a previously agreed upon price.  You'll hear one bid, they will ask for another, and quickly gavel the hammer.

 

On a ship, I've never actually seen competitive bidding on a unique item.  And if there is competitive bidding, the reasonably priced art will be sold to both parties at the original bid price.

 

Basically, when you are looking at the art before the actual auction, the art team will be wandering around asking if you are interested in anything- if you are, ask them for the details and price.  If you are happy with the price, tell them, and the art will come up on the block.  Just tagging items is not the best way to see it go through the auction, especially if you actually want it.

[AlanF65]

I would stay away from any Dali lithographs or "originals" Dali was know to sign about 40k blank sheets that got copied in the 70's or early 80's. Some lines have a Dali "Disney" packge of lost work, these aren't actually signed  by Dali.

 

I have been collecting art since the 70's through publishers and galleries. I bought some "wall" art, pieces I like a few years ago on a Carnival cruise. I made my purchases in the evening of the last night for significantly less that the price during the cruise or auctions. I bought some road runner type pieces at the auctions for my grand niece just for fun. Anything really unique will be able to be had on shore at the same price or less.

A lot of galleries nowadays also list on eBay. You can check ebay for similar items.

 

 

 

 

[KarenWhitworth]

I realize this is an old thread now, but it popped up in my research for another topic. I just wanted to add that the advice here is really good. I am a professional artist and while reading through, I wanted to high five half the profiles in this thread.
Or... I guess we have to elbow bump, now? 🙂
Well done team!

 

[yogimax]

One other word of advice.   Ask about take offs.  You carry them off with the frame thrown in for free.

[Arzeena]

On 1/12/2020 at 8:09 AM, 20165 said:

Im sure this has been asked before, but i cant find the thread.  Has anyone compared the price of art purchased on the ship vs. what they can get it for on shore or is that even possible?  Everything i have read has said its a total rip off, however, someone must be buying it given it has been on every ship i have been on.  We have been interested in some of the art on previous cruises, but havent pursued it because we werent sure about pricing, process, etc.

Any info someone can give us or point us in the direction of a thread that discusses it is greatly appreciated.  

thanks

If you are interested in a particular artist or work of art, do some thorough research before. Look out for some local art galleries and browse there, ask them about the works. You also have to see what kind of art work (that is a canvas on canvas, a limited edition canvas, giclee, print, one of a kind, etc etc ) that is being auctioned. I will say that if you are the educated buyer, they cannot rip you off, because you are in the know and can make a decision based on that. But I have seen many starry eyed couples being taken for a ride of their lives, after being wined, dined and raffled.