Carnival CEO On bailout

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, glrounds said:

 

I agree, although to be fair, the PVSA is part of the Jones Act which is what brings out all those who parse every word and phrase for accuracy.

While the Jones Act widened the cabotage laws to cover goods, and incorporates the clauses of the PVSA, the PVSA was passed 34 years earlier, and for totally different reasons.

[DryCreek]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, first you say they are "skirting" cabotage laws, and then in your first paragraph you say how they are "abiding" by those laws by not engaging in coastwise traffic.  By my definition of "skirting" they would be trying to do coastwise traffic with foreign flag ships somehow.

Ooops, you are correct.

Sorry, very wrong choice of words.  I guess what I was trying to convey is that by complying with the cabotage laws they were avoiding the taxation burden of being US flagged.

Mea Culpa, fogged by 100 proof vodka in my Bloody Mary.

 

Anyway, since you've joined the discussion, did you see my previous question?  What would a skeleton crew look like for a modern cruise ship that was stuck in a non-revenue condition - such as anchored-up, or moored?

 

I can guess Engineering and Navigation, and some other direct support staff.  Sort of like when we were in port while I was in the Navy.  All of the weapons, auxiliary, quartermaster and mess divisions were gone, while those of us in engineering (M-Division, E-Division, ET (Rx Operators) and I&C (really electricians) were stuck on the boat.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, DryCreek said:

Ooops, you are correct.

Sorry, very wrong choice of words.  I guess what I was trying to convey is that by complying with the cabotage laws they were avoiding the taxation burden of being US flagged.

Mea Culpa, fogged by 100 proof vodka in my Bloody Mary.

 

Anyway, since you've joined the discussion, did you see my previous question?  What would a skeleton crew look like for a modern cruise ship that was stuck in a non-revenue condition - such as anchored-up, or moored?

 

I can guess Engineering and Navigation, and some other direct support staff.  Sort of like when we were in port while I was in the Navy.  All of the weapons, auxiliary, quartermaster and mess divisions were gone, while those of us in engineering (M-Division, E-Division, ET (Rx Operators) and I&C (really electricians) were stuck on the boat.

I believe that for a short term lay-up, such as now, they are retaining most of the crew onboard, and sending off those whose contracts have expired, or are to expire during the lay-up, and their replacements won't be sent out until closer to the start up date.  Deck and Engine departments will be maintained at nearly full complement, as this is statutory manning, so about 100-150 in these two deprartments combined.  If they expect a longer lay-up, they would send the concessionaire personnel home (spa, casino, shop), then work through the cruise staff and then the hotel staff.  You would have to retain the crew galley staff, or at least part of it.  For an extended "warm" lay-up, you would most likely have 200-300 remaining onboard.

[DryCreek]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that for a short term lay-up, such as now, they are retaining most of the crew onboard, and sending off those whose contracts have expired, or are to expire during the lay-up, and their replacements won't be sent out until closer to the start up date.  Deck and Engine departments will be maintained at nearly full complement, as this is statutory manning, so about 100-150 in these two deprartments combined.  If they expect a longer lay-up, they would send the concessionaire personnel home (spa, casino, shop), then work through the cruise staff and then the hotel staff.  You would have to retain the crew galley staff, or at least part of it.  For an extended "warm" lay-up, you would most likely have 200-300 remaining onboard.

Thanks for the analysis.

There is a guy on YouTube that had a "Vlog" about his employment with RCI.  He worked in the casino, and was on his fifth contract with them.  His contract was cut short and he was being sent home - along with "lot's of other crew members".  Still, maintaining even 300 on board is a large overhead to bear.  It's not like when I was in the Navy and we pulled into a berth and took on shore power.  They have to continuously burn fuel to run their generators, and periodically haul anchor to be able to make fresh water and dump sanitary tanks.  But, lessening the number of onboard crew does make the necessary jaunt less frequent.  And I'm sure that they've severely curtailed the number of hotel loads they are carrying.

[Elbozi]

Chengkp75 and Dry Creek, you guys know your stuff.  Fun to read for sure.  I assume if the CEO decides to forgo much of the rest of the year, at some point, would they mothball the ships?  I wonder at what point it's more economical to do that?  How quickly can you bring a mothballed ship back online?

[KALUBLES]

Wish the CEO would have made his announcement Friday as planned. Due to him pushing it back now we don’t know what to plan for and our next cruise leaves April 11th out of Galveston. 

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that for a short term lay-up, such as now, they are retaining most of the crew onboard, and sending off those whose contracts have expired, or are to expire during the lay-up, and their replacements won't be sent out until closer to the start up date.  Deck and Engine departments will be maintained at nearly full complement, as this is statutory manning, so about 100-150 in these two deprartments combined.  If they expect a longer lay-up, they would send the concessionaire personnel home (spa, casino, shop), then work through the cruise staff and then the hotel staff.  You would have to retain the crew galley staff, or at least part of it.  For an extended "warm" lay-up, you would most likely have 200-300 remaining onboard.

Isn't there a problem sending crew home as their home may not be accepting people and/or airlines might not be flying there?

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Isn't there a problem sending crew home as their home may not be accepting people and/or airlines might not be flying there?

That is another reason that crew are being retained on the ships.  And, when things are starting up again, it may be difficult to get the replacements tickets to fly.  All of the US maritime industry has just been declared "essential" personnel, so we have to carry letters from our company stating that it is essential for us to travel, if we need to join or leave the ship.

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, Elbozi said:

Chengkp75 and Dry Creek, you guys know your stuff.  Fun to read for sure.  I assume if the CEO decides to forgo much of the rest of the year, at some point, would they mothball the ships?  I wonder at what point it's more economical to do that?  How quickly can you bring a mothballed ship back online?

I would doubt that any of the lines would consider "mothballing" any ships.  What they are doing now is called a "warm" lay-up, where the ship is kept running, and crew is reduced.  A "cold" lay-up, or mothballing, for something like a cruise ship is a couple of million dollar investment just to get the ship ready for lay-up.  If you stop the ventilation and AC for any time, you get massive amounts of condensation (just ask those on the Carnival Triumph) and with condensation comes mold.  So, you need to seal every opening to the outside, install dehumidifiers (or dehumidifying clays) all throughout the ship.  Then water systems need to be drained both in the hotel and the engineering spaces, especially the sea water systems.  Preferably those sea water piping systems would then either be opened to the air in the ship (leaving a strainer cover off and all valves open) to dehumidify the piping, or purge the piping with nitrogen to prevent continued corrosion from undrainable sea water.  Then each piece of equipment needs to be "mothballed" as per manufacturer's recommendations (opening engines to the dry air or mounting dehumifiers to each engine, draining oil and replacing with a corrosion inhibiting oil), and removal of wastes like sewage and oil slops that can cause problems if left for long periods.  You are talking, if you have your mothballing plan in place, and the materials at hand, and have hired experienced contractors to do the work, about 2-3 weeks to mothball the ship and 3-4 weeks to bring it back on line.

[ontheweb]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

That is another reason that crew are being retained on the ships.  And, when things are starting up again, it may be difficult to get the replacements tickets to fly.  All of the US maritime industry has just been declared "essential" personnel, so we have to carry letters from our company stating that it is essential for us to travel, if we need to join or leave the ship.

Do the letters help if there is a quarantine?

 

I can't see that they would do any good if there is no airplane available for transportation.

[chengkp75]

20 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Do the letters help if there is a quarantine?

 

I can't see that they would do any good if there is no airplane available for transportation.

Until they completely shut down air travel, it will get us into quarantine areas for transit to/from the ship.

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, KALUBLES said:

Wish the CEO would have made his announcement Friday as planned. Due to him pushing it back now we don’t know what to plan for and our next cruise leaves April 11th out of Galveston. 

You can't seriously believe you will be cruising in 2 weeks. Have you seen any news/reports?

 

Just scanning these boards most believe it will be months not a couple of weeks.

 

Wishful thinking is great, common sense is even greater.

[bury me at sea]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

You can't seriously believe you will be cruising in 2 weeks. Have you seen any news/reports?

 

Just scanning these boards most believe it will be months not a couple of weeks.

 

Wishful thinking is great, common sense is even greater.

 

The point is that until Carnival cancels, people booked on those cruises don't know what options will be available for refunds or rebooking.

 

 

[beerman2]

12 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

The point is that until Carnival cancels, people booked on those cruises don't know what options will be available for refunds or rebooking.

 

 

The point is they said "they don't know what to plan for". Cruise leaves April 11th.

 

You plan for it NOT sailing.

You plan for either FCC or rebate (Carnival will decide that)

You plan on rebooking/cancelling whatever works best.

 

Those are the options ALL others are in.

 

Poster made it seem they thought there was a "chance " it would sail.

[bury me at sea]

20 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

The point is they said "they don't know what to plan for". Cruise leaves April 11th.

 

You plan for it NOT sailing.

You plan for either FCC or rebate (Carnival will decide that)

You plan on rebooking/cancelling whatever works best.

 

Those are the options ALL others are in.

 

Poster made it seem they thought there was a "chance " it would sail.

 

We obviously read different things into the post.

 

I took it to mean not knowing what terms might be available when Carnival cancels left them in limbo.

 

There's no reason to think Carnival will offer exactly the same terms and conditions with a new batch of cancellations.

 

 

 

 

[KALUBLES]

27 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

We obviously read different things into the post.

 

I took it to mean not knowing what terms might be available when Carnival cancels left them in limbo.

 

There's no reason to think Carnival will offer exactly the same terms and conditions with a new batch of cancellations.

 

 

 

 

You hit it right on the head with that one as far as being what I was saying. I can’t believe how rude some people are.

[beerman2]

34 minutes ago, KALUBLES said:

You hit it right on the head with that one as far as being what I was saying. I can’t believe how rude some people are.

Wouldn't it have been better had you said I know we aren't sailing in 2 weeks, but should we plan on cancelling now or wait until Carnival let's us know what we need to do.

Your post was open to interpretation, especially since there are many threads on how cruiselines are handling cancellations.

 

 

 

 

[DryCreek]

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that for a short term lay-up, such as now, they are retaining most of the crew onboard, and sending off those whose contracts have expired, or are to expire during the lay-up, and their replacements won't be sent out until closer to the start up date.  Deck and Engine departments will be maintained at nearly full complement, as this is statutory manning, so about 100-150 in these two deprartments combined.  If they expect a longer lay-up, they would send the concessionaire personnel home (spa, casino, shop), then work through the cruise staff and then the hotel staff.  You would have to retain the crew galley staff, or at least part of it.  For an extended "warm" lay-up, you would most likely have 200-300 remaining onboard.

 

This is the link to the Guy that was on contract for RC (Chris)

 

He seems to imply that a good part of the crew was released from their contract.  Well, except for the necessary skeleton crew.  He had just started another contract too, as I believe he mentioned in his earlier videos.

[chengkp75]

I believe he was actually nearer the end of this contract, maybe a month or so to go.  I can't load youtube or vlogs due to our bandwidth limitations on the ship, so I can't see his discussion, but I know of him from a thread here on CC.  From comments by others who have seen his videos, I understand he has not said whether it was crew nearing the end of their contracts or blanket dismissals by position.

[DryCreek]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe he was actually nearer the end of this contract, maybe a month or so to go.  I can't load youtube or vlogs due to our bandwidth limitations on the ship, so I can't see his discussion, but I know of him from a thread here on CC.  From comments by others who have seen his videos, I understand he has not said whether it was crew nearing the end of their contracts or blanket dismissals by position.

Wow.  After he gets home he hears the announcement that 14 crewmates tested positive.  It has now ballooned to 51 confirmed.  His group that traveled home numbered 800.  That's right, 800 passing through Miami International Airport.  The remaining 1,600 crew members are having to closely quarantine.  By listening to the master's announcement (ShipLife youtube) it sounds like deck and engineering is the group to be in.  All others confined to their cabin, except for meals.

 

I was going back to listen to Chris's videos.  For some reason I thought he had just re-signed for his fifth contract.

 

Today, two crew members of LOS were carried by ambulance to UTMB in Galveston.  One is reported to have been immediately placed on a ventilator.  They neglected to warn the pilot, longshoremen or ambulance drivers responding to the pier.

[Chief Vette]

On 3/27/2020 at 2:54 PM, Liljo22 said:

The whole market is tanking.  Travel companies are tanking a little more but as a whole everyone is taking.  

Right, that's why I shorted CCL when the Diamond Princess was quarantined in Japan.  Made a quick $15K off a $45K short sale. Short High, Sell Low.🤑

[klfrodo]

19 minutes ago, Chief Vette said:

Right, that's why I shorted CCL when the Diamond Princess was quarantined in Japan.  Made a quick $15K off a $45K short sale. Short High, Sell Low.🤑

smart financial decision but extremely short sighted to brag about profiting off pain of others

[Denverdonkeys]

1 hour ago, Chief Vette said:

Right, that's why I shorted CCL when the Diamond Princess was quarantined in Japan.  Made a quick $15K off a $45K short sale. Short High, Sell Low.🤑

you mean short sell high, short buy low...

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Chief Vette said:

Right, that's why I shorted CCL when the Diamond Princess was quarantined in Japan.  Made a quick $15K off a $45K short sale. Short High, Sell Low.🤑

I guess if the cruise lines ever start sailing again, you can easily afford a top shelf cruise.

[cscurlock]

I read somewhere that they are burning 500 million a month with no ships moving.  How is that even possible?  I would bet they dock the ships for very little considering how much money they bring into the port/city when they are sailing.   With minimal crew moving between each ship doing basic maintenance since a lot of them are in the same port you don't need 4-5 crews. Maybe a high electric bill to keep the ac running.   Just seems like a lot of money.