Hospital Ships, Residential Ships, and Quarantine Ships Oh My!

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, MoniMommy said:

If I am critically ill, I want to be medivaced to a US hospital. 

 

Just want to clear something up on that; if you are critically ill aboard a ship and need evacuation there has never been a guarantee it would be to a US hospital. USCG responds in instances where it is feasible to do so, and there is no charge for a Coast Guard medevac.  But if you are too far away from any USCG, you are too far, and will be evac to whatever place the ship can get you to that presumably has better medical facilities than onboard the ship. Where your insurance comes into play is if you need a repatriation or medical flight back to the United States after being medevac in a foreign country.  

 

But that has me wondering what impact that would have on that kind of coverage with travel insurance? 

[rimmit]

5 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

So much for those summer cruise. We're looking at Fall 2021 at the earliest. Will the cruise lines last that long?

 

They will file for Ch. 11.  The cruises will continue.  The question is if the FCC will still be honored if they file for Chapter 11 or not.  

[LMaxwell]

9 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

This is especially important since they don't pay to the federal government. After the pandemic if Royal is still around, I wanr to know that I can use my vacation insurance policy to get medivaced home if necessary. Hopefully that doesn't change.

I was typing the reply above before I read yours.  Seems we are wondering similar things; but the insurance has zero impact on who arrives to get you off the ship.  Still, wouldn't leave the borders of the US without a travel insurance plan! 

[MoniMommy]

Just now, rimmit said:

 

They will file for Ch. 11.  The cruises will continue.  The question is if the FCC will still be honored if they file for Chapter 11 or not.  

Would think if they want to stay in operation they better not alienate customers which is what they would do by scrapping FCC. LOTS of customers out there with FCC.

[MoniMommy]

1 minute ago, LMaxwell said:

I was typing the reply above before I read yours.  Seems we are wondering similar things; but the insurance has zero impact on who arrives to get you off the ship.  Still, wouldn't leave the borders of the US without a travel insurance plan! 

I see. The insurance medivacs from land. So if I'm sent to a hospital in the Bahamas my insurance could get me home for medical care. Cost of insurance will likely go up.

[LMaxwell]

Just now, MoniMommy said:

So if I'm sent to a hospital in the Bahamas my insurance could get me home for medical care. 

Correct.  

[MoniMommy]

3 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

I was typing the reply above before I read yours.  Seems we are wondering similar things; but the insurance has zero impact on who arrives to get you off the ship.  Still, wouldn't leave the borders of the US without a travel insurance plan! 

Even when US, I get a plan. Paid $75 for our VA vacation. My kid had an accident and had to go to hospital. My copay was 150 which the insurance covered. If it had been a deductible, like I have now, rather than a copay the insurance would have paid that. For me vacation and vacation insurance go together.

[rimmit]

3 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Would think if they want to stay in operation they better not alienate customers which is what they would do by scrapping FCC. LOTS of customers out there with FCC.

 

Myself included. But bankruptcy sometimes causes companies to make poor decisions, and when restructuring debt, all those FCC's is gonna be a lot of owed debt that they could get rid of when filing for Chapter 11.

 

Ultimately, hopefully they don't file.... but it could be close based on their liquidity.  If they can't get up an running till a vaccine and that maybe at least 12 months at the fastest and another 6 months to get people vaccinated....  18 months of no income is a long time...

 

I have some FCC's that are stuck as FCC's, but I have requested all my FCC's from cancelled cruises to become refunds at this point just in case.  

[MoniMommy]

8 minutes ago, rimmit said:

 

Myself included. But bankruptcy sometimes causes companies to make poor decisions, and when restructuring debt, all those FCC's is gonna be a lot of owed debt that they could get rid of when filing for Chapter 11.

 

Ultimately, hopefully they don't file.... but it could be close based on their liquidity.  If they can't get up an running till a vaccine and that maybe at least 12 months at the fastest and another 6 months to get people vaccinated....  18 months of no income is a long time...

 

I have some FCC's that are stuck as FCC's, but I have requested all my FCC's from cancelled cruises to become refunds at this point just in case.  

In my humble opinion anyone that can convert a FCC to a refubd should take the money and run.

[rimmit]

2 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

In my humble opinion anyone that can convert a FCC to a refubd should take the money and run.

 

Excellent advice

[bouhunter]

26 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Would think if they want to stay in operation they better not alienate customers which is what they would do by scrapping FCC. LOTS of customers out there with FCC.

From the threads here it would seem alienating customers by greatly delaying refunds doesn't seem to worry them.

[robmtx]

Not sure how many others on this thread have had to actually use medevac, but understand medevac and repatriation can be two different things. When the on-board ship clinic could no longer help us, we were dropped off at the next port...in our case Bonaire. They were not equipped to handle the illness much better than the ship, except they did have an ICU. The doctor's in Bonaire consulted with the insurance to reach agreement on the medevac. The medevac team decision was to send us to the CLOSEST hospital that met certain quality requirements. Bonaire is just off the coast of Venezuela, but since Venezuela was not an option, I was told we'd be going to Medellin, Colombia. Only after my girl friend was able to travel would we be repatriated to the US.

 

I advocated and worked with the insurance and doctors treating her and we won an appeal to have her evacced to Fort Lauderdale. But we were very close to going to Medellin...I had an email with the flight itinerary. 

 

So remember a medevac doesn't guarantee where you will go and isn't always the same as a repatriation. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

My guess is that they don't void the FCCs. That would alienate an enormous number of regular customers, and generate excruciatingly bad press (for an industry that already brought a load of wretched publicity upon itself).

 

But their easy solution is to jack up rates by, say, 50%.

You received a 125% FCC?  Fine, but you'll have to cough up an extra 25% ... and then prepare for a bunch of upsells and add-ons. I hate this too, but you can see that cruise lines are already bleeding money and will be for a long while ... their recovery, IF it happens, will be slow and grueling. They're going to have to get $$ from somewhere.

Also, their costs are going to increase a ton (yes, the CDC apparently will make them act like real First World operations with genuine regulations and everything. And that's exactly as it should be.)

None of this is pleasing to my inner bargain-hunter, but 2020 is a global disaster in virtually every way. We are seeing mega-layoffs, furloughs, pay cuts, benefit rollbacks, the stock market implosion, sheer disaster for small businesses & non-profits & airlines & hotels & city/state governments & pension funds & just about everyone except the uber-wealthy. (ain't that a surprise)  

Edited April 15, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[denamo]

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the various cruise lines' board rooms!  Overall, I think the cruise lines desire is to keep cruisers safe in all ways. Best business practice is keeping passengers safe.   At the top of it all, they are businesses providing customers with an enjoyable vacation experience while making money. Not pessimism, just a simple fact.

 

As I always say to my husband....follow the money!  What the CDC has put into place with this order does appear to have a monetary concern. The cruise lines for many years have chosen to circumvent paying US taxes and abiding with US labor laws. Not bashing, just stating a fact. Obviously, haven't not cruised due to these practices.  Cruise lines are not the only corporations choosing these types business practices. 

 

Every cruise line at this point is juggling various types of concerns: safety, customer satisfaction, and keeping their companies in good financial standing.  As this thread has unfolded as an exercise in speculation and debate, which is not an issue, in the back of my mind is the lingering thought....follow the money! I believe the CDC is.  🙂

 

[MoniMommy]

3 minutes ago, denamo said:

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the various cruise lines' board rooms!  Overall, I think the cruise lines desire is to keep cruisers safe in all ways. Best business practice is keeping passengers safe.   At the top of it all, they are businesses providing customers with an enjoyable vacation experience while making money. Not pessimism, just a simple fact.

 

As I always say to my husband....follow the money!  What the CDC has put into place with this order does appear to have a monetary concern. The cruise lines for many years have chosen to circumvent paying US taxes and abiding with US labor laws. Not bashing, just stating a fact. Obviously, haven't not cruised due to these practices.  Cruise lines are not the only corporations choosing these types business practices. 

 

Every cruise line at this point is juggling various types of concerns: safety, customer satisfaction, and keeping their companies in good financial standing.  As this thread has unfolded as an exercise in speculation and debate, which is not an issue, in the back of my mind is the lingering thought....follow the money! I believe the CDC is.  🙂

 

Where does the money lead you when you follow it? 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

2 hours ago, MoniMommy said:

This is especially important since they don't pay to the federal government. After the pandemic if Royal is still around, I wanr to know that I can use my vacation insurance policy to get medivaced home if necessary. Hopefully that doesn't change.

 

The terms of your vacation insurance policy determine what is covered. Not all policy are created alike. Might be a good time to check what the insurance you will use covers. 

[npcl]

23 hours ago, Billy Baltic said:

Just being devils advocate but why single out cruise ships? Several weeks back there was a hotel in Tenerife which made the news here as it had an outbreak of the coronavirus. The guests were quarantined to their rooms while the hotel figured out what to do. There is no reason that scenario can’t happen again but will the CDC insist on hotels or resorts having their own hospital facilities on site?

Big difference cruise ships enter and leave the US, as such the CDC can apply direct authority.

 

Inside the US the CDC can advise but not direct.  The authority to direct rests with each state health department and Governor.

 

So no it does not have the authority.

[denamo]

2 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Where does the money lead you when you follow it? 

 

The CDC sees the lines as the ones who need to be supporting passengers who become ill, not the US.  Much of this support is in medical resources that stretches and endangers current medical personnel and patients, as well as, puts communities in danger when a large group from the ships have to be tended to. This is stated in the order. The underlying theme is supporting ill passengers costs the US money.  I think it sticks in the craw of the government when they know these businesses intentionally avoid paying US taxes. 

 

Fortunately, the US has typically seen these Covid-19 situations as humanitarian efforts to work with the ships which was recently needed as those who had to port in Florida.  This order seems to put into place, we will no longer be doing that. They want the cruise lines to create a viable solution that doesn't cost the US.

 

My wish is all who read this, understand it's not said with a pessimistic tone toward the cruise lines.  Simply one view from reading between the lines of the CDC order.  Simplistic answer to your question....leads to the US having to rescue ill passengers at a financial burden to treat or help passengers get home, and the CDC says no more!

 

 

[Plum Happy]

12 minutes ago, denamo said:

 

The CDC sees the lines as the ones who need to be supporting passengers who become ill, not the US.  Much of this support is in medical resources that stretches and endangers current medical personnel and patients, as well as, puts communities in danger when a large group from the ships have to be tended to. This is stated in the order. The underlying theme is supporting ill passengers costs the US money.  I think it sticks in the craw of the government when they know these businesses intentionally avoid paying US taxes. 

 

Fortunately, the US has typically seen these Covid-19 situations as humanitarian efforts to work with the ships which was recently needed as those who had to port in Florida.  This order seems to put into place, we will no longer be doing that. They want the cruise lines to create a viable solution that doesn't cost the US.

 

My wish is all who read this, understand it's not said with a pessimistic tone toward the cruise lines.  Simply one view from reading between the lines of the CDC order.  Simplistic answer to your question....leads to the US having to rescue ill passengers at a financial burden to treat or help passengers get home, and the CDC says no more!

 

 

How is it costing the US money?  You either have health insurance which will pay your hospitalization or you will be paying out of pocket.  Foreign travelers will also have to show proof.

 

 

[Ourusualbeach]

4 hours ago, MoniMommy said:

If I am critically ill, I want to be medivaced to a US hospital. This is why I always purchase insurance. 

There was no guarantee before this pandemic nor will their be after, that you are evacuated to a US hospital regardless of your insurance.  You are evacuated to the nearest hospital that Roysl seems acceptable and then it is then up to your  insurance company to get you to a US hospital.

 

If you get sick enough to be evacuated and you are close to Cozumel you are going to a hospital in Cozumel for treatment until your insurance company makes arrangements to move you.  Insert other countries in place of Cozumel as the case may be. 

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

So they don't have to leave US waters but they cannot make supply runs.  Are the ships just going to sit out there until the crews run out of supplies?  Surely not.  And are they going to comply with all of the following by tomorrow?  I don't see how so what are they going to do from tomorrow forward?

Since the ships now have at most 1/3 of the normal number of people onboard, the food and supplies onboard will last that much longer (and even longer since the crew does not waste as much food as the pax).  And, again, they don't have to comply with the following unless they want to conduct "operations".  How about an offshore work boat (rig tenders) from the Bahamas coming out to deliver supplies while at anchor?  Since cargo ships are working, the cruise lines can deliver food and supply containers to the ports in Florida, have a small container ship carry them to the Bahamas (as part of routine service), and then load the supplies on the work boat for delivery back to the cruise ship.  The cruise ship is not making "operations", just the cargo vessels.  Bunkering fuel can be done at anchorage, but again, fuel will go a lot further.

[denamo]

29 minutes ago, Plum Happy said:

How is it costing the US money?  You either have health insurance which will pay your hospitalization or you will be paying out of pocket.  Foreign travelers will also have to show proof.

 

 

Just a few things that come to mind: Additional time the USCG has to put workers to help, transports to hospitals once the ships port, helping to get US citizens home with flights, perhaps testing, and housing off of the ship if needed for some.  These are just the obvious that I can think of. Any time moving people around arises, there are always unforeseen expenses.

 

Obviously, I'm not privy to all that is financial required. In the order posted, it is a concern. The CDC wants the cruise line to have a plan and the US not have to support monetarily. They do allude to it in the posted order.

 

Thanks for your question. 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by denamo

[denamo]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Since the ships now have at most 1/3 of the normal number of people onboard, the food and supplies onboard will last that much longer (and even longer since the crew does not waste as much food as the pax).  And, again, they don't have to comply with the following unless they want to conduct "operations".  How about an offshore work boat (rig tenders) from the Bahamas coming out to deliver supplies while at anchor?  Since cargo ships are working, the cruise lines can deliver food and supply containers to the ports in Florida, have a small container ship carry them to the Bahamas (as part of routine service), and then load the supplies on the work boat for delivery back to the cruise ship.  The cruise ship is not making "operations", just the cargo vessels.  Bunkering fuel can be done at anchorage, but again, fuel will go a lot further.

 

chengkp75, I always learn so much from your posts.  Your experience and knowledge is appreciated!

[Plum Happy]

1 minute ago, denamo said:

Just a few things that come to mind: Additional time the USCG has to put workers to help, transports to hospitals once the ships port, helping to get US citizens home with flights, perhaps testing, and housing off of the ship if needed for some.  These are just the obvious that I can think of. Any time moving people around arises, there are always unforeseen expenses.

 

 

I was under the assumption that is part of their job, to assist, help those at sea.  What's next?  Charge everyone that they help?Payable to the Government?  

 

Once on land, that is the ambulance service or Fired Department that transports you to the hospital, not the Coast Guard.

[MoniMommy]

59 minutes ago, denamo said:

 

The CDC sees the lines as the ones who need to be supporting passengers who become ill, not the US.  Much of this support is in medical resources that stretches and endangers current medical personnel and patients, as well as, puts communities in danger when a large group from the ships have to be tended to. This is stated in the order. The underlying theme is supporting ill passengers costs the US money.  I think it sticks in the craw of the government when they know these businesses intentionally avoid paying US taxes. 

 

Fortunately, the US has typically seen these Covid-19 situations as humanitarian efforts to work with the ships which was recently needed as those who had to port in Florida.  This order seems to put into place, we will no longer be doing that. They want the cruise lines to create a viable solution that doesn't cost the US.

 

My wish is all who read this, understand it's not said with a pessimistic tone toward the cruise lines.  Simply one view from reading between the lines of the CDC order.  Simplistic answer to your question....leads to the US having to rescue ill passengers at a financial burden to treat or help passengers get home, and the CDC says no more!

 

 

Makes perfect sense!