SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!

[Lois R]

Hi, I was reading the news and it seems the positive test was just yesterday......and the ship arrives back in St Martin tomorrow so the 2 people were not sent home.  They are in isolation on board the ship---oh they are actually sharing a cabin.

[QueSeraSera]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

'barely statistically significant' 

What the #bleep# does that mean?  At least in engineering, something is either statistically significant or it is not, given a specified confidence level.  Claiming something is not significant when the data says it is, or claiming something is significant when the data says it is not, is simply wrong.  Suggesting a need for further data is all well and good, but can lead to the accusation that the test was repeated until the desired results were achieved (while subtle biasing procedural changes were perhaps made).

Edited June 11, 2021 by QueSeraSera
typo

[cruiseej]

4 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

"The judge’s questions hinted at skepticism.  'On a vessel without precautions designed for COVID, without knowledge of COVID and without therapeutics ... two-tenths of one percent of passengers died?' Merryday asked."

 

Yes, only 9 dead passengers. "Barely statistically significant." 

 

Sheesh.

[TLCOhio]

5 hours ago, Lois R said:

Hi, I was reading the news and it seems the positive test was just yesterday......and the ship arrives back in St Martin tomorrow so the 2 people were not sent home.  They are in isolation on board the ship---oh they are actually sharing a cabin.

 

From the Wall Street Journal this afternoon, they had this headline: “Passengers Keep Calm as Covid Cruises On" with this sub-headline:  "Fully vaccinated cruise passengers don’t panic when two test positive”.  

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “Just when you think you’ve seen the back of it, the Covid-19 pandemic has a way of lingering about the cabin.  So it was for Colleen McDaniel, editor in chief of cruise-review site Cruise Critic, who wrote on Tuesday of her excitement to embark on the Celebrity Millennium, which is sailing in the Caribbean exclusively with fully vaccinated passengers.  'Passengers, crew—everyone onboard—sensed the importance of the momentous sailing.' But on Thursday, two guests on board the Millennium tested positive for Covid-19, Celebrity Cruises  parent Royal Caribbean Group said in a statement. The passengers are asymptomatic and are in isolation, the company said.  For Ms. McDaniel, the celebration morphed into an opportunity for some real journalism. In a follow-up post Friday, she told readers of Cruise Critic what it has been like on board since the positive tests: Crew members who had close contact with the pair were immediately tested and came back negative. Closed-circuit footage was used to conduct contact tracing, determining who else on board was within six feet of them for 15 minutes. The initial announcement of the positive tests, she said, 'didn’t send waves of panic through the passengers onboard.' ”

 

Here is more from the reporting: "Vaccines aren’t 100% effective, so we all may have to live with Covid risk for a while longer. On the Millennium, it doesn’t appear to have cramped anyone’s style: Ms. McDaniel reports most guests continued attending shows, grabbing drinks and frequenting the casino."

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/passengers-keep-calm-as-covid-cruises-on-11623428851

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast.  Now at 31,734 views.  Many interesting pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

[TLCOhio]

4 hours ago, QueSeraSera said:

At least in engineering, something is either statistically significant or it is not, given a specified confidence level.  Claiming something is not significant when the data says it is, or claiming something is significant when the data says it is not, is simply wrong.

 

Just to be clear and to clarify from the above posting, it was NOT me saying "barely statistically significant".  As I understand from the original news article, it was the Federal Judge quoting from a CDC document that makes a certain reference or question as to some of the data being in a range of "barely statistically significant".

 

Clearly there is "RISK"!!!  Even on a ship with ALL passengers and crew having had the vaccine.  For all of us, now, it is our duty to evaluate these various risks in going through an airport, being on an airplane, doing cruise terminals and being on a ship as to whether or not any type risk or danger is worth it.  

 

Interesting, challenging times??!!

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 30,633 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

[spinnaker2]

Yes there is most undeniably a risk.

[TLCOhio]

In addition to the battle/question of Florida versus the CDC, here is an another angle to consider:  Where can we visit safely?  YES, agree, with Spins, there is risk, but how do we manage it?  Reasonably??

 

From the Houston Chronicle this afternoon, they had this headline: “CDC just moved 33 countries to the lowest level of COVID-19 travel risk” with these highlights: “The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has updated its travel guidance this week, and the changes open up many more destinations for Americans looking to travel.  Europe, however, remains largely at increased risk levels and travel is not advised yet.   The list, using a four-tiered method of notices, still deems approximately 30% of countries worldwide not safe to visit. These include Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Costa Rica, Cuba, India, the Netherlands and Sweden.  Countries now moved to 'low risk' level 1 — meaning travel is deemed fine to vaccinated travelers — include Fiji, Iceland, Israel, Laos, Malta, Morocco Singapore and South Korea. These countries have shown fewer than 50 new cases of coronavirus over the past 28 days per 100,000 people.  Seven of the eight most popular international destinations for U.S. travelers — Canada, Mexico, the U.K., Italy, France, Spain and Germany — are listed in the 3rd level, implying there is risk of getting and spreading the virus. The Dominican Republic is at the highest risk tier, level 4.”

 

You can see the full CDC list at: 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/noticescovid19

 

Full news story at:

https://www.chron.com/travel/article/The-CDC-just-moved-33-countries-to-the-lowest-16242300.php

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 19,779 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

Edited June 11, 2021 by TLCOhio

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, TLCOhio said:

On the Millennium, it doesn’t appear to have cramped anyone’s style: Ms. McDaniel reports most guests continued attending shows, grabbing drinks and frequenting the casino."

Party on Terry!

[QueSeraSera]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Just to be clear and to clarify from the above posting, it was NOT me saying "barely statistically significant".

Understood Terry, and you have been so helpful throughout this thread and so many others.  Thank you and, if I may say, bless you.

 

This did raise my curiosity, however.  Just what does the CDC say about mask wearing and its' effectiveness?  Their position, I believe, is captured on the link I will paste below.  My not professional summary is that there are multiple studies that establish the benefits of mask wearing.  Why would the judge single one out?

 

Science Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2 | CDC

 

But enough for the night, the "timing, tests and needs" of this excellent thread  are being satisfied & as Mr @Stumblefoot suggests we can party on.  🙂

 

 

 

[CruiserFromMaine]

Going back to the Millenium cruise, I actually find it reassuring that only two people got Covid. There were around 1300 humans on board and two people were infected. Two. And those two were traveling together. Not an outbreak by any means. Cruise lines will need to handle situations like this and Celebrity handled this and the cruise carried on. More like norovirus than coronavirus. 
 

Apparently, Celebrity had 11 nurses on board. 
 

And, yes,  they were sailing with reduced capacity but that’s how cruise lines will handle the learning curve. 

[drron29]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:03 AM, QueSeraSera said:

Understood Terry, and you have been so helpful throughout this thread and so many others.  Thank you and, if I may say, bless you.

 

This did raise my curiosity, however.  Just what does the CDC say about mask wearing and its' effectiveness?  Their position, I believe, is captured on the link I will paste below.  My not professional summary is that there are multiple studies that establish the benefits of mask wearing.  Why would the judge single one out?

 

Science Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2 | CDC

 

But enough for the night, the "timing, tests and needs" of this excellent thread  are being satisfied & as Mr @Stumblefoot suggests we can party on.  🙂

 

 

 

Though most of those studies are not rigorous and basically meaningless.

For example the hair dresser study on top of the list proves nothing.If however the study had the hair dressers wearing masks with half their clients wearing masks and half not then if there were cases in the non mask wearing group it could be more meaningful.But then if a client was positive was the infection picked up whilst they were having their hair done or somewhere else.

 

A Danish study that was a little more rigorous found that masks didn't significantly prevent the wearer from contracting Covid.What it didn't study though was whether wearing a mask prevents you passing on Covid.

In Asia it has in the past been common for those who have respiratory symptoms to wear masks.The problem is with Covid many do not have symptoms so wouldn't feel the need to wear a mask.

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers: A Randomized Controlled Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 174, No 3 (acpjournals.org)

 

But what social distancing and mask wearing has done is to dramatically reduce the incidence of flu and deaths from it.So still a good idea.

Edited June 13, 2021 by drron29

[TLCOhio]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:03 PM, QueSeraSera said:

Understood Terry, and you have been so helpful throughout this thread and so many others.  Thank you and, if I may say, bless you.   This did raise my curiosity, however.  Just what does the CDC say about mask wearing and its' effectiveness? 

 

Appreciate these great, kind comments from QueSeraSera and the helpful follow-ups from Dr. Ron in Australia and CruiserFromMaine.  Keep up the great sharing!!  

 

From the Miami Herald in the heart of cruise country this morning, they had this headline: “Titanic clash pits DeSantis against potent cruise industry as it prepares to restart” with these highlights: “The return of operations for one of South Florida’s most iconic industries has turned into a battle of the heavyweights.  On the one side is Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. Emboldened by growing approval ratings, DeSantis refuses to budge from a state law he sought that bars the cruise industry from requiring passengers be vaccinated.  On the other: The industry, a powerful pillar of Florida tourism, is quietly crafting a work-around for the governor’s mandate as it seeks to restore public confidence and restart cruising after a 15-month shutdown that has put thousands of Florida jobs on hold and cost the industry billions — not including losses to its suppliers.”

 

Don't want to get into any "politics" here on this thread.  Know from friends in Florida and posts on these CC boards that there is a sharp "divide" of opinions regarding the Florida Governor.  Some love him.  Others hate him.  Significant polarization on both sides.  I have said previously, that some sort of "deal" and/or accommodation will happen between the positions taken by the CDC, the State of Florida and the cruise industry.  Time will tell as to a decision by the Federal Judge in Tampa.  Or, as to how that Judge forces the parties to come up with a "compromise".  

 

Also shared in this opinion column was this added background by these Florida journalists: "The vaccine conflict is not an ideal setting for the industry’s restart, said Rockford Weitz, director of the Maritime Studies Program at Tufts University’s Fletcher School.  'This is definitely not how the cruise industry would prefer it to unfold,' he said. 'Unfortunately, the politics of vaccines has put the industry between a rock and a hard place — between Florida and the CDC who have totally different views on how they should operate their businesses.'   At U.S. ports, some cruise companies vow to defy Florida’s ban and restart cruises as soon as June 26 using the same vaccine requirements, in violation of Florida’s law. Other companies have backed down, saying they won’t require proof of vaccines. At least one, Royal Caribbean International, has embarked on a two-pronged approach, encouraging all passengers to be vaccinated and, while not requiring them, imposing more restrictions and costs on unvaccinated passengers.  Although Florida law prohibits businesses from asking patrons if they have been vaccinated, there is nothing stopping the cruise lines from having passengers volunteer the information. Celebrity Cruises is telling passengers 16 years old and older that if they choose not to volunteer proof of vaccination, they will be treated as if they are unvaccinated and be required to follow CDC guidelines for masks and social distancing as well as be subjected to COVID-19 testing — at additional cost.  The cruise companies could make a strong case that their business is conducted mostly outside of Florida, and therefore the state law doesn’t apply to them, said Martin Davies, director of the Maritime Law Center at Tulane University."

 

Full story at:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article252054773.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Completed 2019 summer with Calgary, Jasper/Banff National Parks, Western Canada Rocky Mountaineer rail adventure, Vancouver, sailing up to Alaska on Silver Muse, post-cruise excursion to Denali, etc.  Many visuals and details from our first in these scenic areas!  Live/blog: 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2682584-live-terryohio-silver-muse-alaska-canadarockies-pix’s/

[TLCOhio]

56 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

Yes, I posted in another thread this same concern: there undoubtedly will be positive Covid tests. For everyone who is currently vaccinated and going about their daily lives, almost no one is being tested, so people who have the virus with no symptoms go about life without even knowing. That means the vaccine is doing exactly what it's supposed to -- keeping people from being sick -- but it doesn't completely prevent it from entering people's bodies. But in a cruise environment, everyone will be tested, in some cases multiple times. So my guess is that the testing will find some people who have some Covid virus in them without knowing it or having any symptoms, and that positive Covid cases on cruises will be more prevalent than many of us expect simply because of this high level of testing. Unfortunately for those cruisers who test positive, there will be no measured response based on the amount of virus detected; it will be a simple binary "if you've got it at all, you must be isolated" response.   Best of luck to all who are on these early cruises. We're booked in September, and I remain optimistic -- but there will no doubt be some bumps along the way.

 

Appreciate these above insightful comments on another thread from our "neighbor" located near Philadelphia.  Am posting here as he is 100% correct about that there will be  "some bumps along the way".  Good wisdom about the complexities regarding testing variations, etc., etc.

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 253,524 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

[TLCOhio]

From the New York Times Travel Section this morning, they had this headline: “What to Know About Testing and Vaccine Requirements for Travel" with this sub-headline: "Do you need to be vaccinated or have a negative Covid-19 test for your next trip? Check this guide before traveling domestically or abroad.”

 

Here are some of their reporting highlights: “As vaccinations ramp up and regulations loosen for people in the United States, many are planning travel for summer and beyond, with experts predicting that July 4 will be the biggest travel weekend.  But with regulations shifting, people might have questions about testing or vaccination requirements for their trips. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently eased travel recommendations to more than 100 countries. Some countries are completely open to vaccinated travelers, while others require a negative coronavirus test result in order to enter.  In the United States, the C.D.C. has advised that vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks in most places and released new travel guidelines that said domestic travel is safe for them. But travelers must take note of local advice and regulations.”

 

Here is this key question: "What are the testing and vaccination rules for international travel?"  Here what they reported: "While testing and vaccination requirements vary by destination country, everyone arriving in the U.S. — even vaccinated Americans — must present a negative test result upon entry.  Many nations are still closed to American travelers. Those that are open may require a negative test, proof of vaccination or evidence of recovery (or a combination of these) to enter.   Some European countries are allowing in Americans who are vaccinated or who can show a negative test, with more expected to follow suit.  To enter the U.S., travelers must show a negative result to a nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT) — PCR is a type of NAAT test — or an antigen test, also known as a rapid test, taken in the three days before departure, according to the C.D.C.  Some airports offer on-site testing, such as Heathrow Airport in England, or Rome’s Fiumicino International Airport in Italy."

 

Clearly, these various testing requirements and rules are complex and changing.  Nothing will be easy, simple and quickly resolved. BUT, good news, we are moving forward, inch-by-inch.  Many more details in the full story with various links.  

 

Full story at:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/travel-testing-vaccine-requirements.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 242,026 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

Edited June 13, 2021 by TLCOhio

[TLCOhio]

From the Wall Street Journal  today, they had this headline: “Cruise Lines Wrestle With Florida Ban on Vaccine Passports" with this sub-headline: "State’s rule conflicts with CDC protocol requiring that most crew members, passengers be vaccinated.”

 

Here are some story highlights: “A standoff between Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and the cruise industry over whether to require passengers to show proof of Covid-19 vaccines is coming to a head as some cruise lines prepare to relaunch ships from their top ports in the state this summer.  The states’ measures have put cruise companies in a bind, analysts say, and the companies have responded with a mixture of policies. Celebrity Cruises, owned by Royal Caribbean Group, is requiring vaccine-eligible passengers to be inoculated, and for Florida departures, those who don’t show proof of vaccination will be subject to additional costs and restrictions, a spokesman said.  Royal Caribbean International, owned by the same parent company, is strongly encouraging, but not requiring, vaccinations for passengers on voyages departing from Florida ports, he said.  Though Mr. DeSantis is usually an ally of business interests, the state’s new law is testing the cruise industry, a key economic engine in the state.”

 

Here is more from their story: "The uncertainty threatens to extend the pain for the cruise industry, which has been shut down for 15 months. Customer demand is strong, but a major concern holding passengers back is that they will book a trip, only to have it canceled because of continuing pandemic concerns, said Robin Farley, a leisure analyst at UBS Investment Research.  'Every month that goes by, that’s cash burn,' she said.  A recent survey of more than 5,000 readers of Cruise Critic, a popular review site, found that 80% of respondents preferred to sail on a ship with a vaccine requirement, while 13% preferred one without such a mandate.  'We’re definitely hearing from cruisers that vaccine requirements are driving many of their booking decisions,' said managing editor Chris Gray Faust."

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-lines-wrestle-with-florida-ban-on-vaccine-passports-11623587416

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Sydney to NZ/Auckland Adventure, live/blog 2014 sampling/details with many exciting visuals and key highlights.  On page 23, post #571, see a complete index for all of the pictures, postings.  Now at 233,424 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

[TLCOhio]

In the battle between CDC vs. Florida with the cruise lines caught in the middle, my best guess/hope continues to be that some sort of "compromise" can be worked out.  Those odds, however, seem to be getting longer and more challenged??!!  

 

From the WUSF Public Media/PBS news station in Tampa Saturday, they had this headline: “Talks Unsuccessful In Cruise Ship Fight” with these highlights: “Settlement talks have ended in the legal battle between Florida and the federal government about restrictions on the cruise-ship industry.  U.S. Magistrate Judge    Anthony Porcelli, who has served as a mediator, said in a court filing Friday that a settlement conference was unsuccessful.   'Despite the … good faith and concerted efforts, the settlement discussions have concluded and the parties have reached an impasse,' the filing said.  Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody filed the lawsuit in April challenging restrictions that idled the industry after outbreaks aboard ships early in the pandemic in 2020.   The lawsuit focuses heavily on a 'conditional sailing order' that the CDC initially issued in October with a phased approach to resuming cruise-ship operations.  The CDC has made several updates to the guidelines and said in a Monday filing that it expects cruises to resume by mid-summer.”

 

Full story at:

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/local-state/2021-06-12/talks-unsuccessful-in-cruise-ship-fight

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!  Is one of your future desires or past favorites? See these many visual samples for its great history and architecture.  This posting is now at 90,607 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

[TLCOhio]

As a different, but related, legal question regarding whether employers can required vaccines, this ruling over the weekend provides more to consider.  Clearly there are several interesting legal questions working their way up through the Federal courts in the U.S.  Reactions and comments?

 

From the Associated Press/AP and the Chicago Tribune this morning, they had this headline: “Federal judge backs vaccine mandate, throws out lawsuit. Hospital worker who refuses COVID-19 shot ‘may be properly fired.’ ” with these story highlights: “A federal judge threw out a lawsuit filed by employees of a Houston hospital system over its requirement that all of its staff be vaccinated against COVID-19.  The Houston Methodist Hospital system suspended 178 employees without pay last week over their refusal to get vaccinated.  In a scathing ruling Saturday, U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes of Houston deemed lead plaintiff Jennifer Bridges’ contention that the vaccines are 'experimental and dangerous' to be false and otherwise irrelevant. He also found that her likening the vaccination requirement to the ***’ forced medical experimentation on concentration camp captives during the Holocaust to be 'reprehensible.'  Hughes also ruled that making vaccinations a condition of employment was not coercion.”

 

While hospitals and cruise ships are somewhat different types of employment situations/environments, both involve the general "public health" of larger groups of people.  This Federal Judge was appointed to bench by Ronald Reagan in another twist/angle as these legal questions move through up through the courts.   

 

As vaccination efforts are starting to slow and lag in many parts of our country, these questions as to where, how and if Covid vaccines being required will become more discussed and debated in the "court of public opinion".  PLUS, challenged in courts of law??!!

 

Full story at:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-covid-vaccine-requirement-employer-20210614-r6lywsap3fdurfb76llvazkbvy-story.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 68,464 views:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696

[TLCOhio]

As I read more about this new "Delta variant" from India, I am glad to be fully vaccinated with Moderna.  BUT, how will this new, fast-spreading variant affect the efforts by the cruise lines to re-open?   Sounds challenging??!!

 

From CBS-TV News this morning, they had this headline: “Delta virus variant likely to become dominant U.S. strain” with these highlights: “Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said Sunday that a coronavirus strain known as the Delta variant is likely to become the dominant source of new infections in the U.S. and could lead to new outbreaks in the fall, with unvaccinated Americans being most at risk.  'Right now, in the United States, it's about 10% of infections. It's doubling every two weeks,' Gottlieb said on 'Face the Nation.'   'That doesn't mean that we're going to see a sharp uptick in infections, but it does mean that this is going to take over. And I think the risk is really to the fall that this could spike a new epidemic heading into the fall.'  The Delta variant, also known as B.1.617.2, was first discovered in India and is one of three related strains. It has become infamous for its ability to outpace and replicate quicker than other variants in its lineage.  Gottlieb says the Delta strain is going to continue to spread, citing new data from prominent British epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who told reporters last week that the variant is about 60% more transmissible than the original B.1.1.7 variant first found in the United Kingdom.  Gottlieb said the COVID-19 vaccines approved for use in the U.S. and overseas appear to be effective at containing the Delta variant, highlighting the importance of the public vaccination campaign.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-delta-variant-gottlieb-face-the-nation/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 51,360 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

[Randyk47]

I have no issue with employers requiring vaccination with maybe the caveat that employees with legitimate medical limitation be exempted.   Some may not like that but requirements like this have been a part of my life from birth.   I was born into a military family that moved continuously including two foreign countries.   Everywhere we went, including stateside moves, we were required to prove vaccinations.  It wasn’t discussed or debated ever.  Immediately after high school I went to work in a military hospital to work my way through college and again had to prove vaccination and stay current.  I went from answering phones at night to being a staff psychologist and spent half of my 42 year Federal service career in the direct medical care environment.   I even married an Army nurse and off we went again moving four more times including an assignment in Germany.  Certainly it was my choice but I never gave getting and staying current with vaccinations a second thought.    

[worldtraveller99]

Everyone in England is going mad to be vaccinated so we can end lockdown - especially people in "communities" who were resistant to being vaccinated. Everyone over 25 can now get vaccinated. Here a vaccine passport isn't going to be such an issue I don't think, as we are desperate to travel!

[TLCOhio]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:23 PM, worldtraveller99 said:

Everyone in England is going mad to be vaccinated so we can end lockdown - especially people in "communities" who were resistant to being vaccinated. Everyone over 25 can now get vaccinated. Here a vaccine passport isn't going to be such an issue I don't think, as we are desperate to travel!

 

Great above information and background from Randy and our friend in the London/UK.  Agree, much is happening and more is to come soon as cruise ships start to re-open in a limited manner.  

 

In another area, their debt is big and the below story provides more background.  Is this a reason to worry?  Or, not, when making deposits and providing large advanced payments??

 

From the Wall Street Journal  yesterday, they had this headline: “Pandemic Hangover: $11 Trillion in Corporate Debt" with this sub-headline: "Stressed companies piled on debt as interest rates plummeted, but could face a reckoning in the next economic downturn.”

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “Before the pandemic, U.S. companies were borrowing heavily at low interest rates. When Covid-19 lockdowns triggered a recession, they didn’t pull back. They borrowed even more and soon paid even less.  By the end of March, their total debt stood at $11.2 trillion, according to the Federal Reserve, about half the size of the U.S. economy.  That torrent of inexpensive money has benefited all types of businesses. It helped cruise operators, airlines and movie theaters weather the pandemic by replacing some lost revenue with cash raised from bond sales. It allowed thriving businesses to stock up on cash and to save money by refinancing older debt. And it permitted companies that were struggling before the pandemic to ease the threat of bankruptcy by issuing new long-term debt.  The question now is whether companies have merely delayed a reckoning.  Some of the biggest borrowers during the pandemic have been those hurt most by it. Carnival Corp., the world’s largest cruise operator, had around $33 billion of total debt as of Feb. 28, almost triple what it had near the end of 2019.  As investor demand for corporate debt rebounded, borrowing money got easier. Carnival sold bonds or obtained loans from investors five more times over the next 10 months, finally issuing $3.5 billion of unsecured bonds in February at a 5.75% rate. In April, Carnival had raised enough money to last until it resumes full operations.  Carnival’s CFO said the company will reduce its debt in coming years by paying off bonds and loans as they come due, using cash generated from operations. The goal, he said, is to reclaim the same investment-grade ratings that the company had before the pandemic.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pandemic-supercharged-corporate-debt-boom-record-11623681511?page=1

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 48,339 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

 

 

Below is the interesting graphic and headline from this Wall Street Journal profile yesterday about rising corporate debt, especially among the cruise lines.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see this visual larger/better!)

 

[docruth]

Hi Terry @TLCOhio

 

Haven’t posted in a while, but I’ve been reading the what others have said.

 

I’m sticking with my previous posting, regarding delaying new bookings. Until the fall translants are finished, and we see how that goes, and what cruisers have say about their experience, no new bookings for us. What interests me is the outcome on longer cruises (two weeks).

 

Everything we had booked is cancelled, and refunded (mostly). All international travel is off the calendar until at least 2023, as I see no indications that the rest of the world is moving rapidly towards high vaccination rates. There are US states (less populated ones) that are way behind. I’m concerned about vaccine production, and distribution, so that’s my rationale for no international travel.

 

This nonsense with our state government (FL) poking their noses into matters of public health, because commerce is more important that our well-being, is very troublesome. If you don’t want to turn to biology as the correct science that you’d prefer to use in a global pandemic, but prefer economics, I guess that’s your individual choice. There is a cost for each person that gets sick, and an even higher price for those who die, but that never seems to get into financial spreadsheets until it hits the bottom line.

 

As glum as this post may seem, there’s a bight spot. All those hotel, airline, restaurant and timeshare points will come in pretty handy for some upcoming trips this summer/fall maybe in a land yacht. We’ll stock the freezer, hit the road with the pup, barbecue, just keep up our social distancing, and wear our masks in public. Basically, cruising without the ship and crew. Waiting a year or cruise is no big deal, I’m sure many will have other opinions.

 

Cheers,

 

Doc Ruth

 

[docruth]

Just as an aside to the last comment. Dr.Robert Wachter, a Covid researcher from USF interviewed on the PBS NewsHour tonight, gave us three questions to consider about these emerging variants, when considering risk. He estimates the current percentage of new US Delta variant cases in the 4% - 6%, and now growing rapidly.

 

The Delta variant, believed to have originated India is the newest, potentially the most dangerous. That one was discussedwas discussed and the Drs. answers are in {}. My comments are in ().

 

1. Is this variant more contagious? {yes}

2. Is this variant more virulent? (makes sicker, higher death rates) {yes} {a little less clear}

3. Will the vaccine protect me from this variant? {Pfizer, yes, Moderna, most likely} {the but here is that you have to be fully vaccinated, one or two injections as the manufacturer instructs, and the 3 weeks, otherwise the protection is drastically reduced against the variant.

 

And this affects cruising how? 🤷‍♀️

 

Doc Ruth

Edited June 16, 2021 by docruth

[cruiseej]

3 hours ago, docruth said:

And this affects cruising how?

 

For a ship of fully vaccinated passengers and crew? In theory not too much, right? Even with Delta, vaccinated people are not at any significant increased risk. But there may be more people who throw a positive test, even though they're asymptomatic. We know there will be cases, even on a vaccinated ship So some individuals may have their cruise ruined (isolated to their room, forced disembarkation in a port prior to the end of the cruise), but the overall ship/cruise should not be adversely affected.

 

For ships sailing with people not required to be vaccinated, including kids who cannot yet be vaccinated, it's a different story. There's potential for more cases, and people actually getting sick. A more contagious variant increases those odds. A few "sick ships" with multiple Covid patients could disrupt cruising on a larger scale.

[frantic36]

4 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 

For ships sailing with people not required to be vaccinated, including kids who cannot yet be vaccinated, it's a different story. There's potential for more cases, and people actually getting sick. A more contagious variant increases those odds. A few "sick ships" with multiple Covid patients could disrupt cruising on a larger scale

 

Which is why they should for now only sail with fully vaccinated passenger and crew. The vast majority of patients in the UK hospitalised with the Delta variant are only partially vaccinated or not vaccinated at all. 

 

If there are some onboard who aren't vaccinated they are not going to want to social distance or mask indoors if the remaining vaccinated passengers don't have to. I would wonder also if they had taken any precautions prior to boarding of not going to large events, etc.