Substantial Doubt of 'Going Concern'

[Fredric22]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news4jax.com/news/florida/2020/04/03/is-florida-americas-next-coronavirus-hotspot/%3FoutputType%3Damp

 

 way more cases than reported 

You posted an article from over a month ago that says by May 3, 174 Floridians would be dying daily of COVID-19.   On May 3, 20 people died.  Sorry to let you know, but Florida is not a "hot spot" and as much as the media has predicted it would be, it hasn't become one.  

[npcl]

2 minutes ago, Corliss said:

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

Yep that is the site that shows them to be 23rd per capita  

 

Or are you going by total tests, instead of test per capita.  You do know Florida has a fairly large population don't you.

Edited May 5, 2020 by npcl

[CrankyOldGuy]

48 minutes ago, Corliss said:

Are you aware that your article is a month old?  And that it projects that by May 3 (which was 2 days ago) deaths would be around 174 per day.  Yesterday,  May 4 Florida had 20 deaths.  It has been a huge success....not a hot spot.

Hmmm, this article says they had 113 deaths, almost 6 times what you are quoting.  Your source appears to be incorrect

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/05/florida-adds-113-coronavirus-deaths-a-new-one-day-record/
 

[Corliss]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

Yep that is the site that shows them to be 23rd.   Your point?

 

 

445,995 is the third highest number of tests performed.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

44 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

You left out the third choice; Factual Franks. By looking at ALL the facts you can make informed decisions. 

 

 kwokpot - You're one of the voices of reason here.

   Sadly, the "optimists" value facts even less than the market values NCL right now.

   Personally, I'm not convinced that NCL goes under this year. But to be optimistic here would require believing a few hard-to-swallow ideas:
 

•    there's some magic investment group eagerly looking for a debt-laden business facing a miserable multi-year forecast ahead,
•    even if there is a hedge fund intervention, those predator investors will keep the amenities of cruising untouched (and never nickel-and-dime the experience to death),
•     we're right on the edge of a vaccine as well as a cure, or else the virus will "go away like a miracle,"
•     despite stunningly enormous layoffs at Marriott and Hertz along with the near-shutdown of airlines, the travel industry is going to bounce back better than ever by Thankgiving,
•     scientists, legitimate medical researchers, immunologists across the globe and the mainstream press have been lying all along. (Of course, that's exactly why this whole over-hyped coronavirus thing turned out to be a small-time flash in the pan, precisely as the CC "optimists" were predicting in January and February and even into March.  🦄) 

Edited May 5, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, Roger88 said:

As far as I know, they have to go through this procedure in order to avoid paying taxes.

Avoid paying taxes? No...NCLH doesn't pay federal income taxes anyway because it's incorporated in Bermuda. And even if it was incorporated in the US a company doesn't pay taxes when it's losing money...it pays taxes on profits and NCLH will not be making a profit.

[npcl]

Just now, Corliss said:

 

 

445,995 is the third highest number of tests performed.

But 23rd per capita which is the number that counts.  Florida does have a large population.

[npcl]

3 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

You posted an article from over a month ago that says by May 3, 174 Floridians would be dying daily of COVID-19.   On May 3, 20 people died.  Sorry to let you know, but Florida is not a "hot spot" and as much as the media has predicted it would be, it hasn't become one.  

but 72 reported today.

[Corliss]

1 minute ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

Hmmm, this article says they had 113 deaths, almost 6 times what you are quoting.  Your source appears to be incorrect

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/05/florida-adds-113-coronavirus-deaths-a-new-one-day-record/
 

Florida

36,897

+819

1,399

+20

34,812

1,791

68

445,995

21,652

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

[CrankyOldGuy]

1 minute ago, Corliss said:

Florida

36,897

+819

1,399

+20

34,812

1,791

68

445,995

21,652

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

OK, your obscure site with no references to where they are getting their data trumps a major newspaper....

You win!!!   

[Corliss]

2 minutes ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

 

OK, your obscure site with no references to where they are getting their data trumps a major newspaper....

You win!!!   

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/worldometer/

• Overall, we rate Worldometer Least Biased based on strictly providing data and statistics. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to the use of official sources and clearly disclaiming that the information provided is estimates.

[SeaHunt]

50 minutes ago, Corliss said:

Yesterday,  May 4 Florida had 20 deaths.  It has been a huge success....not a hot spot.

 

Today's headlines on my noon news (Orlando)

LIVE UPDATES: State reports 72 more COVID-19 deaths after reopening; 6 in Central Florida

Florida health officials reported 542 new cases of COVID-19 and 72 additional deaths in the state since Monday

 

https://www.wftv.com/news/live-updates-state-reports-72-more-covid-19-deaths-after-reopening-6-central-florida/2A6YMUFYHNEJLJU4TAFIDRGIMQ/

 

Hopefully this trend will stop quickly. 😢

[billyu]

26 minutes ago, steveknj said:

 

Well, that's true, but do we have ALL the facts?  Do we know what maneuvering NCL is doing behind the scenes?  Do we know if there's a plan for the Federal government to come to their rescue?  We only know what we know.  It doesn't look good but a lot of companies emerge from bankruptcy and a lot don't.  Again, these are the facts today.  Tomorrow there are new facts.  The fact was in early March, there are few to no cases of COVID in the states, and the facts today is there is over 1M. 

I have to base my financial decisions on the facts that I have right now.

 

I see a business model that just doesn’t work. You currently have a group of hardcore cruisers that will get on a ship no matter what. Then on the other hand you have the masses that have no intention on getting on a ship anytime soon if ever.

 

The cruise industry relies on ships being full and people spending money. This just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. So how can that be profitable to pay back any debts owed.

 

I love to travel wether it be on a ship or land based. And right now the current pricing doesn’t give me the best value for my dollar. It looks like when I can safely travel in the future it will be a land based vacation. I’m not giving my hard earned money right now to any company that is on the verge of collapse in the foreseeable future.

 

I’m choosing to cancel my booked cruise and see if I can get my deposit back now.

 

We all need to do what makes us comfortable.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by billyu

[Midwestgal]

3 hours ago, shof515 said:

i have a cruise for September, final payment is approaching. Looks like i might be forced to cancel it. I was hoping that things might improve and my cruise might of happen. Guess not 😞

Nobody should be trying to book or give them a dime unless your fine with never getting it back

[Fredric22]

3 minutes ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

 

OK, your obscure site with no references to where they are getting their data trumps a major newspaper....

You win!!!   

How come reading is getting so hard for people these days?  I said the deaths on MAY 3rd (that is not today, that is not yesterday, that is the day before) were 20.  The article you are quoting has the deaths from TODAY.  As you may know, today and May 3rd are two different days.  As far as obscure site, worldometers.info is not obscure and is one of the main tracking sites for all Coronavirus data.  Florida currently is doing about 22,700 tests per 1 million people which beats CA, TX, PA, OH and many others. 

[Sam Ting]

I thought this thread was about NCL financial difficulties.  

[njhorseman]

5 minutes ago, Corliss said:

Florida

36,897

+819

1,399

+20

34,812

1,791

68

445,995

21,652

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

3 minutes ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

 

OK, your obscure site with no references to where they are getting their data trumps a major newspaper....

You win!!!   

If you look at today's report on the worldmeters site Florida has reported 72 additional deaths since yesterday.

I don't pay much attention to numbers reported on Monday mornings, because I've learned there's serious under reporting  on weekends. Here in NJ we've been advised by our governor to take the Monday reports with  a grain of salt because they know a lot goes unreported on the weekend.

[Fredric22]

3 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

 

Today's headlines on my noon news (Orlando)

LIVE UPDATES: State reports 72 more COVID-19 deaths after reopening; 6 in Central Florida

Florida health officials reported 542 new cases of COVID-19 and 72 additional deaths in the state since Monday

 

https://www.wftv.com/news/live-updates-state-reports-72-more-covid-19-deaths-after-reopening-6-central-florida/2A6YMUFYHNEJLJU4TAFIDRGIMQ/

 

Hopefully this trend will stop quickly. 😢

 

As mentioned in the article, Tuesdays are usually a data dump from previous deaths occurring over the weekend.  While the media would love to tie this to Florida's re-opening, we all obviously know that opening the state yesterday had nothing to do with deaths from over the weekend.   This is why 3 day daily averages are much more reliable figures than only looking at daily death toll numbers. 

[npcl]

12 minutes ago, Corliss said:

Florida

36,897

+819

1,399

+20

34,812

1,791

68

445,995

21,652

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Look at todays numbers 72

[Dave0311]

13 minutes ago, Corliss said:

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

You were looking at total tests. It's no surprise that the most populated states in the country (of which Florida is one) have the highest number of total tests performed, so that statistic doesn't really mean much on its own. You need to sort that chart by "Tests/1M pop" to see what proportion of that state's population is being tested. Are they testing a larger or smaller portion of their population than other states? They are in fact 23rd by this statistic, meaning there are 22 states that are testing a larger percentage of their population than Florida. Those states likely have more accurate statistics in terms of positive cases, death rates, etc.

[chobo2]

Has anyone gotten a refund back who requested it? I requested it the first day I could April 16th.

 

I chatted online with a Capital one Rep and they said since they are going to issue a refund, I cannot do a charge back even if they said it will take 90 days to get the money back. Also the purchase well over the 119 days. 

 

So I guess I am screwed if they go bankrupt.

[jbcallender]

Can you say "Unsecured Creditor"?

[chobo2]

6 minutes ago, jbcallender said:

Can you say "Unsecured Creditor"?

 

I am not sure what you mean?

[adamnoone]

27 minutes ago, chobo2 said:

Has anyone gotten a refund back who requested it? I requested it the first day I could April 16th.

 

I chatted online with a Capital one Rep and they said since they are going to issue a refund, I cannot do a charge back even if they said it will take 90 days to get the money back. Also the purchase well over the 119 days. 

 

So I guess I am screwed if they go bankrupt.

I just got off the phone with Citi, I opened a dispute. They agreed I have waited long enough for a refund (requested refund as soon as the form was available 3-23) and posted a conditional credit. Who know whether Ill win it or not, but figured with todays headlines I wanted to get a dispute on the books just in case.

Edited May 5, 2020 by adamnoone

[seaman11]

1 hour ago, spanishguy1970 said:

but i bet some of these executives will still get millions of dollars in their pockets 🙂 LOL... It was obvious that they were looking into filling bankruptcy, only those cheerleaders that had false hope believed there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow :-)....

dont know why cruises would be almost happy the line could go under.  but this is just the media,  real businessmen know how things work, they had to file had to disclose it by law and are fishing for investors, likely they will get some.