Social distancing on a cruise ship

[Laszlo]

Its pretty straight forward the US is doing a terrible job because a lot of people just don't give a crap. Something is really wrong when the US with only 5% of the global population has 25% of the cases in the world

[fisherguy]

1 hour ago, dcipjr said:

Masks are part of the pandemic toolkit, and by themselves, they are limited in their effectiveness.

 

In order of effectiveness:

 

1. Stay-at-home orders: Everyone stays home unless there is an absolutely essential reason to be out (need food, need supplies, cannot work from home).
2. Social distancing: When you have to go out, stay six feet away from others. Being six feet away is enough most of the time.
3. Wear a mask: if you have to be near others, it may be hard to stay six feet away at all times, and the mask covers you if you accidentally become too close to someone else—or when six feet away isn't enough (sneezing, for example).

 

These three tactics aren't going to solve the pandemic on their own, but they greatly slow the spread. 

 

Staying at home covers most of the cases, since person-to-person contact spreads the virus, but not everyone can stay home all the time. Social distancing helps mitigate spread that occurs because people can't stay home. But it's hard to stay six feet away from everyone at all times when you're out, and sometimes six feet isn't enough—so masking helps mitigate the cases that slip through the cracks of staying at home + social distancing. 

 

If you follow that stay-at-home + social distancing + masking recipe, it's very effective for stopping the virus: look at New Zealand, or New York City.

 

The US as a whole did not follow the recipe consistently.

 

So now you've got people are saying it's a bad recipe.

 

And they're bored.

 

And they're going to Disney World.

Great post.

Its all about minimizing the risks

 

 

[Roger88]

7 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Its pretty straight forward the US is doing a terrible job because a lot of people just don't give a crap. Something is really wrong when the US with only 5% of the global population has 25% of the cases in the world

People do care but its hard to do anything when the government itself doesnt know a formula of how  to manage and to deal with the crisis. People cant just stay at home forever or do business from home (if they feel uncomfortable with it). Moreover, I doubt that anything will change drastically in its regard in the near time so just relax people and keep going 

[fisherguy]

23 hours ago, Joebucks said:

Typical of any COVID discussion. I saw something online, therefore it supports my claim. Even though I don't know if it's true or what it's even saying.

 

The United States has performed more tests than anyone in the world. Our percentage of positive result tests are about mid-to-lower of the pack around 6%.Also, not every country is following the same testing process to a T. Serious question, does anyone actually expect the country with the most tests to not find the most cases? Remember, cases are largely asymptomatic and not fatal either.

 

Quit with this notion that America is the only country where everyone is sneezing and coughing into everyone's face because of Trump while every other country is safe. You can find some anomalies that support your claim either way, but it's mostly just fear and politics.

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/international-comparison

The problem with these stats is that they don't tell you the whole story.

 

The 6% for the US is highly skewed by the 1% for New York and NJ which represents a large proportion of the population in the US.  If every state had a 6% positive test result then yes it would not be so bad.  But because there is a large disparity in how certain States are doing, it makes things difficult in both opening the economy up nationally and the strain that the health care systems in those states that are not doing so well is dealing with.  

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by fisherguy

[Laszlo]

21 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

People do care but its hard to do anything when the government itself doesnt know a formula of how  to manage and to deal with the crisis. People cant just stay at home forever or do business from home (if they feel uncomfortable with it). Moreover, I doubt that anything will change drastically in its regard in the near time so just relax people and keep going 

 

Will agree to disagree. My wife and I just spent a week in New Hampshire. NH does not have a state mandate although most stores and every restaurant we went to did have them in place. I witnessed first hand dozens of people arguing with the owners of certain stores and a few restaurants they should not have to wear them. In general people are stupid and selfish. And yes, it starts at the top with our Government.... Thats a whole other different kind of failure

[fisherguy]

Reasons why countries including the US should not be adopting a Herd Immunity Strategy:

 

 

 

 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, fisherguy said:

So again you are saying that masks are not effective because people aren't wearing them properly?  Because all the experts and scientific research say that they are effective in stopping your spray of virus infected droplets if they were used properly.

 

So these same people can probably use a computer, operate most basic household appliances, and be able to drive a car yet you are saying they cannot figure out that the two loops that masks come with go around your ears?  and that the rest of the mask should cover your nose and mouth?  Are they dumb? or are they just refusing to wear them properly because they are apathetic or just defiant? 

You greatly oversimplify the wearing of masks.  It is far more complicated than you assert. 

 

Here are some basic questions for you:

Does a mask become contaminated when it traps virus particles?

How long should a paper mask be worn before it should be replaced because it has become contaminated?

How long should a cloth mask be worn before it is washed because it has become contaminated?

Does a non-infected person wearing a mask that is contaminated leave a trail of virus particles behind?

How should a person replace a mask?

Should the hands be washed before/after replacing the mask?

What is the proper way to dispose of a contaminated mask?

What is the proper fit for a mask?  

Does an improperly fitted mask lose effectiveness?

Does a contaminated mask pose a threat to the wearer or those in the near vicinity? 

When a person sneezes while wearing a contaminated mask does the sneeze transmit those virus particles into the air around the person who sneezed?

 

The problem with masks is the assumption that 'anything is better than nothing' which is patently untrue.  Masks can also become a danger to those wearing them and those around the wearer unless the mask is properly worn.  Masks can also give a false sense of security where people forgo other protocols such as handwashing.

 

Note: I'm not saying that masks are inherently ineffective but that they become ineffective when they are improperly worn/disposed of.  I'm also saying that the vast majority thinks as you do, ie, all they have to do is put the mask on.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by RocketMan275

[RocketMan275]

8 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Or people start using common sense. It's  been around for years and some of us older people know how to use it.

Common sense is the most uncommon kind.

[RocketMan275]

17 hours ago, Outerdog said:

 

Masking orders don't do anything.

 

People actually following the orders does. Take a look around.

It takes more than just ordering people to wear a mask.  Unless people are educated in how to properly wear a mask, the effectiveness is very doubtful.

[RocketMan275]

13 hours ago, Edinburghgirl1 said:

Melbourne Australia has  200 new infections a day and has gone into full lockdown for 6 weeks. Florida has 15,000 in one day and are thinking of sending their kids back to school! Says it all. 

Most data indicates that the ones who have the least to fear from the virus are children.  Infections are almost non-existent and complications exceedingly rare.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Laszlo said:

 

Will agree to disagree. My wife and I just spent a week in New Hampshire. NH does not have a state mandate although most stores and every restaurant we went to did have them in place. I witnessed first hand dozens of people arguing with the owners of certain stores and a few restaurants they should not have to wear them. In general people are stupid and selfish. And yes, it starts at the top with our Government.... Thats a whole other different kind of failure

Exactly what does wearing a mask into a restaurant and then taking the  mask off while one eats/drinks accomplish?  

We have a similar rule in place here.  A typical restaurant visit goes like this:

Enter wearing a mask.

Seated at table, remove mask.

Server arrives to take drink order.  According to the rule, one should replace the mask while 'interfacing' with the server.

Server leaves to fetch dinks.  Remove mask.

Server brings drinks.  More 'interfacing' replace mask until server leaves.

Server leaves, remove mask.

Waiter brings menu.  More interfacing - replace mask.

Waiter leaves, remove mask.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Or take this rule.  In my area, those actively exercising in the gym do not have to wear a mask.  But one has to wear a mask to walk in the door and walk 20 feet to the area designated for 'active exercising' where one can remove the mask.  When leaving one has to wear a mask to walk the 20 feet from the 'active exercising area' to the door.  The 'active exercising area' is only distinguished by the sound deadening floor covering.  It is not enclosed.

 

It's dumb rules like these that discredit those making the rules.  

[beerman2]

27 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Common sense is the most uncommon kind.

Then it needs to rebound and become common again!

[Laszlo]

I agree, in gyms in my area you wear a mask from the time you walk in until you leave. Actually in my area you are supposed to wear a mask anytime your outside of your home, that is if your around people. Its not perfect but wearing your mask for the little time you do in a restaurant helps to protect others. Its far from perfect but it beats either getting take out or the restaurant not opening.

[fisherguy]

55 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You greatly oversimplify the wearing of masks.  It is far more complicated than you assert. 

 

Here are some basic questions for you:

Does a mask become contaminated when it traps virus particles?

How long should a paper mask be worn before it should be replaced because it has become contaminated?

How long should a cloth mask be worn before it is washed because it has become contaminated?

Does a non-infected person wearing a mask that is contaminated leave a trail of virus particles behind?

How should a person replace a mask?

Should the hands be washed before/after replacing the mask?

What is the proper way to dispose of a contaminated mask?

What is the proper fit for a mask?  

Does an improperly fitted mask lose effectiveness?

Does a contaminated mask pose a threat to the wearer or those in the near vicinity? 

When a person sneezes while wearing a contaminated mask does the sneeze transmit those virus particles into the air around the person who sneezed?

 

The problem with masks is the assumption that 'anything is better than nothing' which is patently untrue.  Masks can also become a danger to those wearing them and those around the wearer unless the mask is properly worn.  Masks can also give a false sense of security where people forgo other protocols such as handwashing.

 

Note: I'm not saying that masks are inherently ineffective but that they become ineffective when they are improperly worn/disposed of.  I'm also saying that the vast majority thinks as you do, ie, all they have to do is put the mask on.

 

 

You seem to want to make this more complicated than it should be.  I have never seen anyone where I live have problems with wearing a mask properly.  None of our infections here have been linked to improperly worn masks

 

Wear a mask, don’t wear a mask.  Do whatever you want.  
 

You want a full lockdown? 

Edited July 13, 2020 by fisherguy

[sverigecruiser]

14 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

We have a similar rule in place here.  A typical restaurant visit goes like this:

Enter wearing a mask.

Seated at table, remove mask.

Server arrives to take drink order.  According to the rule, one should replace the mask while 'interfacing' with the server.

Server leaves to fetch dinks.  Remove mask.

Server brings drinks.  More 'interfacing' replace mask until server leaves.

Server leaves, remove mask.

Waiter brings menu.  More interfacing - replace mask.

Waiter leaves, remove mask.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

 

We are recommended not to wear a mask so I don't wear one but shouldn't it be possible to do the restaurant visit like this:

 

Enter wearing a mask. Keep the mask on until you get your drinks and food.

 

Do you really have to take it off every time the server/waiter leaves?

[HaveWeMetYet]

3 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

We are recommended not to wear a mask so I don't wear one but shouldn't it be possible to do the restaurant visit like this:

 

Enter wearing a mask. Keep the mask on until you get your drinks and food.

 

Do you really have to take it off every time the server/waiter leaves?

What RocketMan is trying to get across is that  the constant touching and handling of a mask rapidly diminshes its usefulness.

[sverigecruiser]

6 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

What RocketMan is trying to get across is that  the constant touching and handling of a mask rapidly diminshes its usefulness.

 

I agree with that because it's correct that constant touching and handling of the mask does rapidly diminishes it's usefullness.

 

What I ask is if it isn't possible to do the restaurant visit he mention without all that touching and handling of the mask. Why not keep the mask on until the drinks and food arrives? I shouldn't go to a restaurang if wearing a mask was needed but if someone does the best thing must be to keep the mask on as long as possible.

Edited July 13, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[fisherguy]

1 minute ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I agree with that because it's correct that constant touching and handling of the mask does rapidly diminishes it's usefullness.

 

What I ask if it isn't possible to do the restaurant visit he mention without all that touching and handling of the mask. Why not keep the mask on until the drinks and food arrives?

masks in restaurants should not be required if proper social distancing measures are put in place.  Staff though are normally required to wear masks.  Restaurants here are running at less than full capacity.  Tables are spaced 6 feet apart and limited to no more tha 6 per table.  Restaurants that are unable to do this have not been able to open.  

[HaveWeMetYet]

13 minutes ago, fisherguy said:

masks in restaurants should not be required if proper social distancing measures are put in place.  Staff though are normally required to wear masks.  Restaurants here are running at less than full capacity.  Tables are spaced 6 feet apart and limited to no more tha 6 per table.  Restaurants that are unable to do this have not been able to open.  

6 foot distance came out in 1934. Recent research says 22-25 feet to get the job done in an indoor environment.

[pmd98052]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Most data indicates that the ones who have the least to fear from the virus are children.  Infections are almost non-existent and complications exceedingly rare.

a) Expected death rate for kids who return to school from the Secretary of Education is 0.02%. It’s a small number as a percent. In real terms that’s 15,000 dead kids. 
 

b) it’s not just about the kids. Kids travel.

 

c) there are teachers and others in schools.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by pmd98052

[HaveWeMetYet]

7 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

a) Expected death rate for kids who return to school from the Secretary of Education is 0.02%. It’s a small number as a percent. In real terms that’s 15,000 dead kids. 
 

b) it’s not just about the kids. Kids travel.

 

c) there are teachers and others in schools.

 

 

Thats from all causes, not covid. Deaths from covid below the age of 18 are near zero.

[d9704011]

13 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

Thats from all causes, not covid. Deaths from covid below the age of 18 are near zero.

You know, you (generic) can calculate until the cows come home with the CV-19 numbers that are available but it’s all going to be a big crap shoot.  I expect things are pretty much the same in the US as they are here.... kids were taken out of school in mid-March and locked away in little bubbles (often referred to as houses) for the last four months or so with almost no interaction with other people in an environment totally non-representative of anything even the so-called ‘new normal’ will look like for them.  Making predictions on what will happen in school is a mug’s game.  

 

Hence all the precautions the CDC is recommending.

Edited July 13, 2020 by d9704011

[Outerdog]

Has anyone on this board changed their opinion on Covid prevention techniques as a result of what someone else has posted here?

 

No? Exactly.

 

This thread an all the others like it are utterly pointless.  

 

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask... do whatever you want. We're all screwed.

[Outerdog]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

It takes more than just ordering people to wear a mask.  Unless people are educated in how to properly wear a mask, the effectiveness is very doubtful.

 

Well then educate them, RocketMan, educate them. Don't just throw your hands up in the air. You know the masks are effective but have resigned yourself to the fact that people are too stupid. So rather than be a part of the solution, you prefer to be part of the problem and repeat the same "masks aren't effective because $reason" drivel over and over.

 

Educate them, my man. Be part of the solution. Or get out of the way so others may do so. You, and others like you, are making too much pointless noise.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Outerdog

[cementhands]

This is the first wave of covid19 going through USA and each state is doing their own thing. Northeast was a mess and hunkered down and better now but so many deaths. Now flashpoint is Arizona California Texas and Florida still the first wave. If and when it calms down the schools are reopening and second wave will shut down the dense population states again. Unfortunately it’s inevitable.
Supposed to be a clinical trials vaccine in Russia now.
We might be writing off 2020 and into 2021. Wearing a mask and gloves and hunkered down. Covid19 is no joke and has taken 5 friends and relatives to date.