Medical Grade HEPA Air Filters

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, voljeep said:

thanks - so when was your last cruise ship assignment ?

I left the cruise industry back in 2008 when NCL downsized their US flag fleet.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Air does not pass between staterooms and the hallways. The Japanese Health Ministry report on the Diamond Princess states that they believe the passengers infected with COVID-19 acquired it before the isolation procedures were in place. It is possible in a couple of cases, that crew delivering meals passed the infection and it is known that in at least one case, a health worker was infected by a passenger. I suggest you read the posts from the Chief Engineer 'cheng75' who has explained how the ventilation system works on modern ships.

 

I have been on a cruise ship where there was a lot of smoke from a fire in a cabin near ours and there was no trace of smoke in our cabin.

 

P.S. I now see that 'Cheng75' has posted an answer. I replied before reading to the last post.

An interesting tidbit from some of these studies by the Japanese Health Ministry was that they found RNA fragments on the air ducts 17 days after the ship was evacuated, but what no one seems to latch onto is the fact that these were cabins where passengers infected with covid were quarantined, so the air recirculated in their cabins would naturally contain viral fragments, but no mention was made that any viral fragment was found on the ducts of cabins of passengers who did not have the virus.  Only if this evidence of the virus in the ductwork of someone who did not have the virus would show that there was air movement between cabins.

[Ken the cruiser]

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I assume you have some data on mold in ships, or some anecdotal evidence, because I personally haven't seen any real evidence of it in ductwork.  In fact, the USPH requires sanitizing pads in the drain pans of air handlers to deal with just this kind of problem, molds and aerosol bacteria like legionella.  The air in the ship's AC system is low in humidity, so the only real place that mold would form is in the air handlers where the condensation forms and drains.  Studies have shown that things like "duct cleaning" services are overrated in their need and performance, and can actually cause more problems after cleanings.

Nope, just anecdotal. We were on the 26 year old HAL Maasdam for 40 days this past fall and we both had soar throats for most of the cruise, which we didn't have before we got on and where it magically disappeared when we disembarked and flew back home. So we figured it was just something in the air on this 26 year old ship. If it wasn't mold, then hopefully the new filters will catch whatever was causing it. If it wasn't in the air, we still think the HEPA filters are a great idea!

Edited June 3, 2020 by Ken the cruiser

[chengkp75]

Just now, Ken the cruiser said:

Nope, just anecdotal. We were on the 26 year old HAL Maasdam for 40 days this past fall and we both had soar throats for most of the cruise, which we didn't have before we got on and where it magically disappeared when we disembarked and flew back home. So we figured it was just something in the air on this 26 year old ship. If it wasn't mold, then hopefully the new filters will catch whatever was causing it.

A suggestion is to use a saline nasal spray daily to re-hydrate your mucus membranes, which can dry out in the low humidity AC of a ship, and which are your first and best defense against respiratory illnesses.

[Ken the cruiser]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

A suggestion is to use a saline nasal spray daily to re-hydrate your mucus membranes, which can dry out in the low humidity AC of a ship, and which are your first and best defense against respiratory illnesses.

That's an option, but since in 40+ cruises this was the only ship we have had this issue on, I think we'll just avoid going on older ships like this one if at all possible. 

[gmjc2]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I assume you have some data on mold in ships, or some anecdotal evidence, because I personally haven't seen any real evidence of it in ductwork.  In fact, the USPH requires sanitizing pads in the drain pans of air handlers to deal with just this kind of problem, molds and aerosol bacteria like legionella.  The air in the ship's AC system is low in humidity, so the only real place that mold would form is in the air handlers where the condensation forms and drains.  Studies have shown that things like "duct cleaning" services are overrated in their need and performance, and can actually cause more problems after cleanings.

So you are not just a Jones Act expert but also A/C and filters!!  What a Renaissance man!!!

[gmjc2]

Incidentally, I would love to know which ships have these  " extractor vents" in the bathrooms? We have only ever had one in 54 cruises? Wish we did have them! They are A/C vents and do not extract any air that we can detect!!

 

 

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

So you are not just a Jones Act expert but also A/C and filters!!  What a Renaissance man!!!

So, I guess you figure that every time there is an AC problem on the ship, that the ship calls the local AC repair shop in the next port, and have them come onboard to fix it?  Wrong.  Marine engineers are trained in many disciplines to be able to service every single piece of equipment on the ship, since out at sea there is no "Maytag repairman" to call.  Why don't you accept the fact that myself and others showed you as incorrect on the other thread and let it rest.  I don't know what your profession is, but I am considered to be a subject matter expert in mine, which is marine engineering.

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

Incidentally, I would love to know which ships have these  " extractor vents" in the bathrooms? We have only ever had one in 54 cruises? Wish we did have them! They are A/C vents and do not extract any air that we can detect!!

 

 

Gee, in 45 years at sea, on many vessels, I have never had an "AC" vent in a bathroom  they are all exhaust vents.  But, I don't know anything.

[cruisequeen4ever]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

An interesting tidbit from some of these studies by the Japanese Health Ministry was that they found RNA fragments on the air ducts 17 days after the ship was evacuated, but what no one seems to latch onto is the fact that these were cabins where passengers infected with covid were quarantined, so the air recirculated in their cabins would naturally contain viral fragments, but no mention was made that any viral fragment was found on the ducts of cabins of passengers who did not have the virus.  Only if this evidence of the virus in the ductwork of someone who did not have the virus would show that there was air movement between cabins.

Would this mean that if a pax did not report being sick, the cruise ended, and new pax boarded, the new pax could pick up the virus from the previous pax in that stateroom? I’m not talking about the surfaces of the stateroom, just the virus RNA found on the air duct.

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

Would this mean that if a pax did not report being sick, the cruise ended, and new pax boarded, the new pax could pick up the virus from the previous pax in that stateroom? I’m not talking about the surfaces of the stateroom, just the virus RNA found on the air duct.

Probably not, as the study only found RNA fragments, though it was 17 days after the passengers left.   Any virus, outside a host will start to "die" and break down, and leave RNA fragments behind, but these are not viable viruses capable of infecting a new person.  And, the RNA was not found in the duct, but on the register where the air goes either in or out of the ducts, so some of this could have been droplet transmission that was carried by the air flow to the vent and deposited there.

[Outerdog]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Gee, in 45 years at sea, on many vessels, I have never had an "AC" vent in a bathroom  they are all exhaust vents.  But, I don't know anything.

 

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

[Aus Traveller]

9 hours ago, Sam Ting said:

Yeah okay. Maybe someone should call them up and tell them that an anonymous poster on some website has them convinced they are wasting their money. 

NCL would not be wasting their money installing these filters if their target market felt safer and more bookings resulted. It wouldn't matter how effective the filters were in controlling the spread of viruses.

 

BTW, Sam Ting, I would categorize your post as sarcastic. 😁

[Sam Ting]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Gee, in 45 years at sea, on many vessels, I have never had an "AC" vent in a bathroom  they are all exhaust vents.  But, I don't know anything.

No you know everything. Lol. A little knowledge is dangerous.  No wonder why few people even bother responding to you. 

[npcl]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

An interesting tidbit from some of these studies by the Japanese Health Ministry was that they found RNA fragments on the air ducts 17 days after the ship was evacuated, but what no one seems to latch onto is the fact that these were cabins where passengers infected with covid were quarantined, so the air recirculated in their cabins would naturally contain viral fragments, but no mention was made that any viral fragment was found on the ducts of cabins of passengers who did not have the virus.  Only if this evidence of the virus in the ductwork of someone who did not have the virus would show that there was air movement between cabins.

The map of the cabin locations, of those that contracted COVID-19 on the Diamond also should no pattern that would have been present if it was being transferred through the cabin duct work.

 

 

[npcl]

7 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

Incidentally, I would love to know which ships have these  " extractor vents" in the bathrooms? We have only ever had one in 54 cruises? Wish we did have them! They are A/C vents and do not extract any air that we can detect!!

 

 

That is funny, all of the 36 ships I have been on, Princess, NCL, RCCL, Celebrity, have all had exhaust vents in the bath room.

 

I would hate to have a bathroom that has a vent that runs air into the room, imagine how that would force odors into the cabin from the bathroom if that was the case,

 

That is why they are exhaust vents, just like in hotel bathrooms, and most likely your home bathroom if it complies with most modern building codes.

Edited June 3, 2020 by npcl

[mk-ultra]

3 hours ago, Sam Ting said:

No you know everything. Lol. A little knowledge is dangerous.  No wonder why few people even bother responding to you. 

 

I encourage anyone to just look at the post history here and draw your own conclusions on Sam's posts.  He's repeating this "A little knowledge is dangerous" line in multiple cruise line forums. 

 

Yeah, a little knowledge is dangerous, and wow he's demonstrating that with multiple inflammatory posts.  Going head-to-head with a genuine marine engineer like chengkp75 while being inaccurate and spreading misinformation though?

 

I'm all for differing opinions, but if you don't actually have any factual information to contribute...

Edited June 4, 2020 by mk-ultra

[mk-ultra]

3 hours ago, Sam Ting said:

No you know everything. Lol. A little knowledge is dangerous.  No wonder why few people even bother responding to you. 

 

Why don't you describe to us, in detail, exactly, how your cabin air supply and HVAC works?  I'm sure we'd love to get your expert assessment on this.  You seem to feel like you're really knowledgeable.  Go ahead and enlighten us.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

If there is ANYONE on these boards I would listen to on this subject it WOULD be Chengkp75, who has a solid reputation and practical experience working on ships for many, many years.  Always first to admit when his knowledge is lacking or may be inaccurate, and willing to share his expertise, he is a real asset to CruiseCritic.

[gmjc2]

19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Gee, in 45 years at sea, on many vessels, I have never had an "AC" vent in a bathroom  they are all exhaust vents.  But, I don't know anything.

Then why do they not turn on with the light switch and why do they not extract odors?  Also they are emitting cold air to cool the  bathroom. 

I guess I sail on different ships!

[gmjc2]

19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

So, I guess you figure that every time there is an AC problem on the ship, that the ship calls the local AC repair shop in the next port, and have them come onboard to fix it?  Wrong.  Marine engineers are trained in many disciplines to be able to service every single piece of equipment on the ship, since out at sea there is no "Maytag repairman" to call.  Why don't you accept the fact that myself and others showed you as incorrect on the other thread and let it rest.  I don't know what your profession is, but I am considered to be a subject matter expert in mine, which is marine engineering.

I let it rest days ago. It seems you have to have the last word on everything. So you should take your own advice.

[chengkp75]

20 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

So you are not just a Jones Act expert but also A/C and filters!!  What a Renaissance man!!!

 

11 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

I let it rest days ago. It seems you have to have the last word on everything. So you should take your own advice.

Really?  The first quote doesn't seem like you let it go, does it?  I don't need the last word, but I don't like personal slights.  Your post did not add anything to the thread, but was merely your personal gripe.  But you're right, I'm done with you.

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

Then why do they not turn on with the light switch and why do they not extract odors?  Also they are emitting cold air to cool the  bathroom. 

I guess I sail on different ships!

Gee, you know what?  My bathroom fans at my home don't come on when I turn the light on either!  They come on with a humidistat to lower the humidity in the bathroom, and have their own switch.  But the reason the cabin bathroom vent does not come on when you turn a light on is because it runs all the time, and there is no fan in your bathroom, there is one fan that extracts air from 30-50 bathrooms.  Kind of hard to control one of these with switches in every cabin.  They are designed to operate all the time, and extract a known quantity of air all the time.  Why this does not deal with your odors, I can't say.  And, I apologize for answering this after my last post, didn't see your post above it. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by chengkp75

[npcl]

3 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

Then why do they not turn on with the light switch and why do they not extract odors?  Also they are emitting cold air to cool the  bathroom. 

I guess I sail on different ships!

yes, imaginary ones