You are not sailing this year at all. Lets stop the illusion

[seaman11]

2 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

LOL.

 

Ship is not coming back into Florida with any infected even if its one person. Because there is more than one. 14 days later anchored off shore when the cases are now 20+ will start the Princess saga all over again

The reason your not sailing is......what happens if someone becomes infected onboard?  

Until there is a vaccine I should change the title of my thread here to , "Your not sailing till mid 2021"

CCL just backed off August now 

 

Steve

i would think that there would be some sort of arrangement done beforehand .  i think if a few were infected they would allow docking back , perhaps we would all be tested and have to wait a week or two.  or some other method but they wont leave us out to dry. 

[seaman11]

2 minutes ago, CaptainWes said:

I would be willing to release NCLH of all liability prior to embarkation in regards to the virus. I'm sure I can't be the only one

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/06/12/trump-campaign-rally-sign-up-page-includes-coronavirus-liability-disclaimer/

 

they have them for rallys , im sure there will be one for ships , ill sign it also , im taking the risk.  we shouldn't sue knowing the risks  

[boatseller]

5 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Ship is not coming back into Florida with any infected even if its one person. Because there is more than one. 14 days later anchored off shore when the cases are now 20+ will start the Princess saga all over again

The reason your not sailing is......what happens if someone becomes infected onboard?  

Nope.  20 cases from a cruise will be insignificant in the general population.  Florida will have 105,223 cases instead of 105,243.  Big deal.  No one will notice.

 

Enough people are either infected or recovered already to make the cruise ship debate meaningless.  People are getting infected all over the place.  No reason to single out cruise ships.

[boatseller]

5 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/06/12/trump-campaign-rally-sign-up-page-includes-coronavirus-liability-disclaimer/

 

they have them for rallys , im sure there will be one for ships , ill sign it also , im taking the risk.  we shouldn't sue knowing the risks  

And there's warnings at the entrance to every theme park.  Lot's of people are totes OK with it.

[Samstress]

53 minutes ago, Samstress said:

I would suggest that a lot of them don't have the option of 'working or not working'.  And that's the issue I have.  However I do realize that the bottom line is what is important to the industry (and not just the cruise one).  I just  don't want my personal need to be what puts someone else in harms way.  

 

If I could I would remove this post.  Now that I have seen all the pages of posts since mine....it seems like a drop in the ocean of worry.  This virus is obviously not thru with us yet.  Stay safe....

[mscdivina2016]

49 minutes ago, boatseller said:

  No reason to single out cruise ships.

Why do we care about the profits of a foreign company?

They do not hire USA, pay taxes to USA, or follow any of out labor laws.  (NCL Hawaii excluded)

 

So they make money and we get sick.  Diamond Princess, Grand Princess

I think other countries will open up first.  

I am not anti cruising, I have lost 6 this year 1 so far and I have 10 booked still.

Steve

[boatseller]

2 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Why do we care about the profits of a foreign company?

They do not hire USA, pay taxes to USA, or follow any of out labor laws.  (NCL Hawaii excluded)

 

So they make money and we get sick.  Diamond Princess, Grand Princess

I think other countries will open up first.  

I am not anti cruising, I have lost 6 this year 1 so far and I have 10 booked still.

Steve

I see you don't know very much about how the cruise industry works or how the big three are structured.

[mscdivina2016]

1 hour ago, seaman11 said:

i would think that there would be some sort of arrangement done beforehand .  i think if a few were infected they would allow docking back , perhaps we would all be tested and have to wait a week or two.  or some other method but they wont leave us out to dry. 

How?

If its passenger to passenger transmission, at some point there is crew contact.

 

What happens to your room steward if you come down with it? Your Waiter? Your bartender?

They live up to 4 in a room.

I personally don't want 1 infection being let back in. How about they take you off the ship by chopper and you have to pay for your own medical transport back to your town?

 

Steve

[mscdivina2016]

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

I see you don't know very much about how the cruise industry works or how the big three are structured.

Please enlighten me then?

What do we reap in taxes directly from the ships sailing themselves? Not land based?

[boatseller]

6 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Please enlighten me then?

What do we reap in taxes directly from the ships sailing themselves? Not land based?

It's not secret and it's not sinister.  I'm sure you can do the basic research.

[mscdivina2016]

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

It's not secret and it's not sinister.  I'm sure you can do the basic research.

OK research.....

 

According to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), Panama, Liberia and Bermuda are all countries that have reciprocal tax agreements with the U.S., so none of the other aforementioned cruise lines pay federal taxes in the U.S. 

 

 

They’re not really US companies. Carnival Corporation is incorporated in Panama. Royal Caribbean is incorporated in Liberia. Norwegian Cruise Line is incorporated in Bermuda. These three cruise companies combine to make up around 70 percent or more of the global cruise ship market, depending on how you measure it. And while they operate offices in Miami, Florida, they are all incorporated in countries with very different labor, tax, and other laws than those of the US. Their ships fly flags of these countries, too. What’s more, a large number of cruise ship employees are from Europe, the Caribbean islands, and the Philippines. These companies are not big job creators for US citizens in the way that other bailout targets like Boeing or airlines like Delta, United, and American are. Also...

They pay basically zero federal income tax. With all of that in mind, it shouldn’t surprise many people that these big cruise companies essentially pay no federal income tax in the US. True, each company is actually a conglomeration of a bunch of smaller companies, and there are some cases where their subsidiaries might be subject to federal (and state) income tax laws. But most of those entities don’t have to pay, thanks to Section 883 of the Internal Revenue Code, which exempts:

Edited June 16, 2020 by mscdivina2016

[chipmaster]

On 6/13/2020 at 6:38 AM, mscdivina2016 said:

So the CDC meeting was yesterday.

What came out of it? Red light, yellow light, and green light protocols.

 

Florida, where I live has now had several of the all time new cases in the last week. We are surging in new cases thanks to easing.

Miami Dade is the biggest hot spot here. So tens of thousands are not flying in.

The travel industry is afraid and they keep up the hype.

If they said tomorrow.....all cruises cancelled til 2021, what would happen?

Millions of people would cancel now, take the cash and gut the cruise companies.

They would lay off many. The stocks would drop.

The only reason they keep pushing it off a little at a time is to keep cash coming in. You keep booking, and they wait until after final payment to cancel. Then you have a weeks window to request a cash refund,then take 90 days to refund you.

 

The big question that is not answered by any cruise line is......What if you get a case onboard again?............

Until they can answer that you are not sailing. Remember Diamond Princess.

 

A few weeks ago I was caught up in it, booking for May and June after I had my Spirit cruise cancelled a few months back. Sadly I have $20,000 in FCC now thanks to the Jewel being cancelled for early 2021.

 

Rates are real high as they try and offset the FCC given out. I think now the best bet once cruising starts is to book last minute.

 

Done venting!

Steve

 

 

We are going into summer, people are gathering and protesting and spreading.

 

In my part of the woods we did Phase 1 in some counties and put the stop in others because of a huge spike up.  I am starting to get out and about, one theme, the young and the stupid are not observing and sense of they might as well be wearing MAGA hats too, not a surprise, we'll be seeing this go up all summer someplace and more deaths.

 

Ships won't sail, we'll likely have colleges start ( see the 60 minutes ) and then another explosions as all the young kids go to school, gather, spread, and bring it back to their old parents, rinse and repeat.. the cruise ships ain't going anywhere with passengers that much is for sure!

Edited June 16, 2020 by chipmaster

[seaman11]

24 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Why do we care about the profits of a foreign company?

They do not hire USA, pay taxes to USA, or follow any of out labor laws.  (NCL Hawaii excluded)

 

So they make money and we get sick.  Diamond Princess, Grand Princess

I think other countries will open up first.  

I am not anti cruising, I have lost 6 this year 1 so far and I have 10 booked still.

Steve

Thays not true. Lots of American employees. They have offices in florida.  They buy fuel and 

Food there.  They pay some taxes there also. They bring business to the ports. Resturants and hotels near ports make money off it.  You are not thinking of the ripple effect of the cruise industry.  

[Cruisercl]

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  20 cases from a cruise will be insignificant in the general population.  Florida will have 105,223 cases instead of 105,243.  Big deal.  No one will notice.

 

Enough people are either infected or recovered already to make the cruise ship debate meaningless.  People are getting infected all over the place.  No reason to single out cruise ships.

Nope, none of what you are guessing is based on fact.

It is more complex than just the passengers being allowed on a ship, not sure why this hard to understand for some.

[boatseller]

Just now, Cruisercl said:

Nope, none of what you are guessing is based on fact.

It is more complex than just the passengers being allowed on a ship, not sure why this hard to understand for some.

Please try to explain how 20 cases will be a meaningful difference in the overall population.  Because it is just that simple.

[hftmrock]

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  20 cases from a cruise will be insignificant in the general population.  Florida will have 105,223 cases instead of 105,243.  Big deal.  No one will notice.

 

Enough people are either infected or recovered already to make the cruise ship debate meaningless.  People are getting infected all over the place.  No reason to single out cruise ships.

They will NEVER let a ship dock with 20 cases... first of all if there are 20 documented cases, there are 50 undocumented cases.

second, if everyone gets off the ship and undocumented , asymptomatic folk get off the ship, each one becomes a hotspot to give it to 10 of their friends and family. so if there are 20 documented, and 30 undocumented, the 30 asymptomatic each gives it to 10 more so thats 300 and they give it to their friends and family.

 

I can tell you for certain, that is not going to happen without VERY VERY VERY documented, slow, careful planning that will need to go through CDC approval before any ship will sail.

it wont be business as usual for disembarkation if there are covid cases on board

 

I'll also say if there is a covid case on board and there are still places to go. NOT 1 port will allow the ship to dock and let out passengers.

 

[mscdivina2016]

15 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

Thays not true. Lots of American employees. They have offices in florida.  They buy fuel and 

Food there.  They pay some taxes there also. They bring business to the ports. Resturants and hotels near ports make money off it.  You are not thinking of the ripple effect of the cruise industry.  

I realize that, I was referring to the billions the ships themselves make and don't pay taxes on. Thats why I excluded land based stuff.

But we are on the short end of that.We don't even build the ships here. 

 

But the ripple effect of infections has gone global

[boatseller]

2 minutes ago, hftmrock said:

They will NEVER let a ship dock with 20 cases... first of all if there are 20 documented cases, there are 50 undocumented cases.

second, if everyone gets off the ship and undocumented , asymptomatic folk get off the ship, each one becomes a hotspot to give it to 10 of their friends and family. so if there are 20 documented, and 30 undocumented, the 30 asymptomatic each gives it to 10 more so thats 300 and they give it to their friends and family.

 

I can tell you for certain, that is not going to happen without VERY VERY VERY documented, slow, careful planning that will need to go through CDC approval before any ship will sail.

it wont be business as usual for disembarkation if there are covid cases on board

 

I'll also say if there is a covid case on board and there are still places to go. NOT 1 port will allow the ship to dock and let out passengers.

 

Nope.  Still not a reason.  Even 50 cases is barely 2% of recent daily totals.  Insignificant.  You can make the same argument about the theme parks, malls, restaurants or grocery stores.  People are still getting infected.  Whether it happens on a a cruise ship or resort hotel doesn't matter.

 

Cases attributed to cruising will be insignificant in the general population and indistinguishable from other activities.

 

[hftmrock]

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  20 cases from a cruise will be insignificant in the general population.  Florida will have 105,223 cases instead of 105,243.  Big deal.  No one will notice.

 

Enough people are either infected or recovered already to make the cruise ship debate meaningless.  People are getting infected all over the place.  No reason to single out cruise ships.

if it was soooooo easy as you claim

 

why is this?

At least 42,000 cruise ship workers are STILL stuck onboard their ships, after 3 months without a paycheck -

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article243398711.html

 

 

[boatseller]

3 minutes ago, hftmrock said:

if it was soooooo easy as you claim

 

why is this?

At least 42,000 cruise ship workers are STILL stuck onboard their ships, after 3 months without a paycheck -

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article243398711.html

 

 

Completely irrelevant to this discussion.  They're stuck because of travel restrictions often imposed by their home countries and panic based guidance issued by the CDC.  100% Governments' fault.

Edited June 16, 2020 by boatseller

[hftmrock]

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

Completely irrelevant to this discussion.  They're stuck because of travel restrictions often imposed by their home countries and panic based guidance issues by the CDC.  100% Governments' fault.

you have an excuse for everything but it is relevant. The same reason they cant disembark is the same reason passengers wont be able to if there are covid cases without very very strict rules and guidelines and emergency planning.

 

But debating with you is futile because you see it a certain way. the easy way is to wait and see what happens. will they all just disembark with the normal procedures without regard to covid cases or will there be new strict rules and procedures and contigency plans for ships with covid passengers

 

have a nice day

[Cruisercl]

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  Still not a reason.  Even 50 cases is barely 2% of recent daily totals.  Insignificant.  You can make the same argument about the theme parks, malls, restaurants or grocery stores.  People are still getting infected.  Whether it happens on a a cruise ship or resort hotel doesn't matter.

 

Cases attributed to cruising will be insignificant in the general population and indistinguishable from other activities.

 

Nope. Based on pandemic, epidemic and epidimiological principles and data collection, your rationale does not work.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  A cruise ship is not the same situation as any of those you listed. 

Prevention practices of an ongoing pandemic etc. is never really based on the general population either. They are situational.

[boatseller]

14 minutes ago, Cruisercl said:

A cruise ship is not the same situation as any of those you listed. 

Right.  The cruise lines are better prepared then any of those because they have dealt with outbreaks before.  So even less reason to block cruising.

[pmd98052]

6 hours ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  Still not a reason.  Even 50 cases is barely 2% of recent daily totals.  Insignificant.

 

Um. South Korea re-shut down Seoul's bars, parks, restaurants, shops due to 49 new case a couple of weeks ago.

 

The fact that Florida has 2,500+ new cases in a single day doesn't mean 50 new cases doesn't matter. It means Florida is being grossly negliagent in its handling of the situation versus competent nations.

[Jobeth66]

I would be willing to release NCLH of all liability prior to embarkation in regards to the virus. I'm sure I can't be the only one

Will the people who are subsequently infected after cruisers return be signing these waivers as well? Or are the infected that signed those waivers going to be indemnifying the cruise lines and paying out the claims filed by the non-cruisers who are stricken? Will you have to prove adequate financial resources to pay the millions of dollars the cruise line may be exposed to by non-cruisers who can show they were infected by cruisers, before being allowed to board the ship? I don't know if you can get insurance for that.

See, you might be able to waive your rights, but you can't waive anyone else's.