You are not sailing this year at all. Lets stop the illusion

[boatseller]

The Percent Positive in Florida has gone from 4.2 on May 10 to 4.24 over the last 6 week interval.  More tests, more 'cases'.

 

People are going to get the virus, that cannot be stopped, ever.  As things open, people are going to get the virus, that cannot be stopped ever.  Lockdown did not stop the virus.

 

Number of cases doesn't matter.  Florida is reporting flat or fewer deaths, that's a good thing.  People acquiring and clearing the virus without treatment is a good thing.  Hospital capacity is available.  Remember, it's supposed to be flatten the curve, not prevent all infections.

 

I said in another thread, by the time cruising starts in August, cases attributed directly to cruising will be a insignificant.  There will be no ship-wide quarantine, no diversions, no post cruise isolation.  High-risk persons should not cruise.

 

The theme parks are open, restaurants are open, beaches are open, malls are open.  There is no case to be made to prevent cruising from opening.

[AdoraBelle]

31 minutes ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

but it's not bad - that's my point. More people are hospitalized with the flu than they are with Covid. All of these people are walking around with it and testing positive, and yet they are fine. there are 21.48 million people living in Florida since 2019. These numbers are not matching the level of hysteria. Again, people in the high risk category definitely should not be sailing! 

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-hospitalizations-central-florida-20200614-vxrk2t3hdjgcrmt6pyqtdl3r5a-story.html

 

 

 

[onetimearoundtheworld]

3 minutes ago, boatseller said:

The theme parks are open, restaurants are open, beaches are open, malls are open.  There is no case to be made to prevent cruising from opening.

 

There are 3.

1. other countries are involved

2. cases get discovered while on the cruise ship. not like in your examples after they left the business.

3. cruise lines can't just close the business and send guests and employees home. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by onetimearoundtheworld

[hftmrock]

9 minutes ago, boatseller said:

The theme parks are open, restaurants are open, beaches are open, malls are open.  There is no case to be made to prevent cruising from opening.

I guess the CDC sees things differently than you

[boatseller]

7 minutes ago, onetimearoundtheworld said:

There are 3.

1. other countries are involved

2. cases get discovered while on the cruise ship. not like in your examples after they left the business.

3. cruise lines can't just close the business and send guests and employees home. 

1. They're opening, and the private islands will be there.

2. Symptomatic persons will be isolated in their stateroom, that's it.  Same with noro.

3. Irrelevant.  The theme parks and other business will not be closing again.

[hftmrock]

45 minutes ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

but it's not bad - that's my point. More people are hospitalized with the flu than they are with Covid. All of these people are walking around with it and testing positive, and yet they are fine. there are 21.48 million people living in Florida since 2019. These numbers are not matching the level of hysteria. Again, people in the high risk category definitely should not be sailing! 

ill say all states that opened before the recommended CDC and government guidelines were met should not sail...

 

So ... (and I could be wrong about this)... NY is the only place to sail in the USA

[MsTabbyKats]

16 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Well 0.25-0.5% of people might be. That is what I don't get in these discussions. People say "the risk is low I'm willing to take it" - And they are (excuse the pun) dead right. The risk to the individual is low. However what I literally cannot fathom for as long as I continue to live is how they don't also see that even 0.25% applied to 330 million people is a LOT OF DEAD PEOPLE.

Because they are not "in it"...it's like they're watching a disaster movie.  It's the "it only happens to other people" syndrome.

 

I've stopped voicing my opinion (really more on the Carnival boards) because it's like talking to brick walls.

Yeah...I love cruising too....just like everyone on this forum.  But, cruising now is just plain stupid. 

 

And I really really really hope they cancel everything out of NY for the obvious reason.  We have a no-nonsense governor; I wonder if he has any power over this.

[pmd98052]

3 minutes ago, boatseller said:

1. They're opening, and the private islands will be there.

2. Symptomatic persons will be isolated in their stateroom, that's it.  Same with noro.

3. Irrelevant.  The theme parks and other business will not be closing again.

 

USA is already (rightly in my opinion) not letting in UK citizens due to the high rate of COVID-19 in the UK.

 

With the USA having 25%-30% of the worlds COVID-19 cases and only 4% of the population how long do you think other nations will open to USA citizens for exactly? Other nations won't be happy to receive USA Cruise ships. Sure you will have some exceptions - no disagreement. Some nations will need the money no matter the risk.

[boatseller]

2 minutes ago, hftmrock said:

I guess the CDC sees things differently than you

There has been no change in CDC policy.  The NSO is still set to expire in July.

 

Their best option is to just let it expire and allow local authorities to set the rules.

[4774Papa]

On 6/13/2020 at 8:24 PM, hftmrock said:

my apologies but if you want to cruise again. we need to take covid 19 seriously and go by the science and the data and change our behaviors so it doesn't overwhelm the system

 

States that opened too early are currently paying a heavy price.

 

Lets hope we all do our part and get this under control so we can all cruise soon

Not really, most of those states had far lower numbers than the more draconian measures taken in other states.  Yes, there has been an increase in cases.  In my state, Georgia, the new cases are even a spike.  In my community, the local paper actually prints the number of cases that require hospitalization, which are usually less than 10% of the new cases.

 

I am not saying that the disease is not a problem.  It is a serious problem for nursing home residents, or Seniors with underlying conditions.   

 

Senior do make up a significant percentage of those going on cruises, especially the longer cruises that we pick.

 

We have a cruise from Rome to Tampa in October 2021 and going on a safari in East Africa in July 2021.   No real reason to go earlier, even if we could, we don't do the Caribbean any more, prefer TA cruises after a European land trip.

[hftmrock]

5 minutes ago, boatseller said:

1. They're opening, and the private islands will be there.

2. Symptomatic persons will be isolated in their stateroom, that's it.  Same with noro.

3. Irrelevant.  The theme parks and other business will not be closing again.

1. - the CDC is not in control of any bad decisions of companies

2. - you believe it will be contained at 1 person? so this one person went to the show the night before.. Houston.. you have a problem

3. - NO state or country currently will allow you to dock at their pier if you have 1 more more active cases.

 

 

[onetimearoundtheworld]

Just now, hftmrock said:

3. - NO state or country currently will allow you to dock at their pier if you have 1 more more active cases.

 

Don't forget, islands have turned ships away last minute when they got the medical record of people onboard with respiratory illness. Not even confirmed covid-19 cases.

[onetimearoundtheworld]

I am actually pretty sure on the mind of the executives, at least from the big cruise lines, are a lot of things. Postponing or cancelling new builds, reducing of fleet size, shuffling around dry dock modernisations, employee cuts, ...

But starting asap is not one of them. They are in quite a comfortable position at the moment and there is no need to take any ruinous risk so early in the reopening game. 

[boatseller]

1 minute ago, hftmrock said:

1. - the CDC is not in control of any bad decisions of companies

2. - you believe it will be contained at 1 person? so this one person went to the show the night before.. Houston.. you have a problem

3. - NO state or country currently will allow you to dock at their pier if you have 1 more more active cases.

1. The island nations are opening.

2. No, but like I said, the number of cases attributed to cruise ships will be practically irrelevant.

3. The islands are opening with this knowledge, it's their call.  The ship will return to it's US port and disembark normally because any number of cases will be insignificant within the general population.

[hftmrock]

5 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Not really, most of those states had far lower numbers than the more draconian measures taken in other states.  Yes, there has been an increase in cases.  In my state, Georgia, the new cases are even a spike.  In my community, the local paper actually prints the number of cases that require hospitalization, which are usually less than 10% of the new cases.

 

I am not saying that the disease is not a problem.  It is a serious problem for nursing home residents, or Seniors with underlying conditions.   

 

Senior do make up a significant percentage of those going on cruises, especially the longer cruises that we pick.

 

We have a cruise from Rome to Tampa in October 2021 and going on a safari in East Africa in July 2021.   No real reason to go earlier, even if we could, we don't do the Caribbean any more, prefer TA cruises after a European land trip.

are definitively saying that opening early before the CDC and government recommendations didnt cause more deaths? Even 1 more death is too much when not following guidelines. what if that one more case was your father? or someone close to you? Would you feel just as relaxed to allow states to open before guidelines were met?

[boatseller]

4 minutes ago, onetimearoundtheworld said:

Don't forget, islands have turned ships away last minute when they got the medical record of people onboard with respiratory illness. Not even confirmed covid-19 cases.

That was when the fatality of the virus wad drastically overestimated.  There is a lot more data available on which to base this decision.

[hftmrock]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

1. The island nations are opening.

2. No, but like I said, the number of cases attributed to cruise ships will be practically irrelevant.

3. The islands are opening with this knowledge, it's their call.  The ship will return to it's US port and disembark normally because any number of cases will be insignificant within the general population.

Im going to go right to number 3

 

there is already major discussions on how ships will disembark if/when there are cases on board. It will NOT be as easy as you think.

 

this is a CDC guideline that has to be identified and documented before the CDC will allow it

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by hftmrock

[MsTabbyKats]

13 minutes ago, hftmrock said:

ill say all states that opened before the recommended CDC and government guidelines were met should not sail...

 

So ... (and I could be wrong about this)... NY is the only place to sail in the USA

Oh...NO!  Don't send them here!

I don't want to spend another 3 months watching tv.

[hftmrock]

1 minute ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Oh...NO!  Don't send them here!

I don't want to spend another 3 months watching tv.

no... you dont understand

 

ONLY NYers will be allowed to cruise. no other states since they reopened before any guidelines were met.

 

so its a NY cruise with NY passengers only.

[pmd98052]

4 minutes ago, hftmrock said:

no... you dont understand

 

ONLY NYers will be allowed to cruise. no other states since they reopened before any guidelines were met.

 

so its a NY cruise with NY passengers only.

 

To be fair Michigan has done a great job as well with only 180 cases yesterday (or over weekend) its a sharp contrast to Florida, Texas etc.

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 hour ago, pmd98052 said:

 

You realize Arizona hospitals issued a capacity ICU warning just last week and is scrambling to find beds and a number of states now have hospitals nearing ICU red warning thresholds?

 

I don't understand what you expect to happen. States locked down and virus rates/deaths slowed. States have opened back up and now its rising again. Its just logic. You say "deaths were low" - They were 117,000+ in 2.5 months (from 900 end of March to now). Of course deaths were lower than projected because States locked down. 

 

Its amazing to see the denial.

 

49 new cases in a day and a country closes large portions of its capital city. 2,600 new cases in a day in Florida and nothing.

What do you propose Florida and the rest of the US do?  Initiate another lock down?  I'm reading all of this with great interest and I am genuinely curious.

[hftmrock]

2 minutes ago, ChC said:

 

I am so tired to hear people make this argument. Flu death is estimated, it is based on a model that designed by human who works in a building without actually seen a single death body, which could be very wrong. Covid19 death however is rigorously documented. Flu death should never be mentioned, because there is no way to document or verify the estimate. Flu death number is an educated guess, it is not science. Please stop quoting this number.

i only quote the number because ill informed people say that Covid is 'just like the flu' and it is hardly like it

 

its the only number we have as reference but the point is always that the flu and covid 19 are apples and celery

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by hftmrock

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, ChC said:

 

I am so tired to hear people make this argument. Flu death is estimated, it is based on a model that designed by human who works in a building without actually seen a single death body, which could be very wrong. Covid19 death however is rigorously documented. Flu death should never be mentioned, because there is no way to document or verify the estimate. Flu death number is an educated guess, it is not science. Please stop quoting this number.

Do you mind providing a source to support this information.  As far I know, even the medical experts have cited estimates related to flu.

[pmd98052]

8 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

What do you propose Florida and the rest of the US do?  Initiate another lock down?  I'm reading all of this with great interest and I am genuinely curious.

 

I think its important to remember that South Korea and the USA had their very first COVD19 deaths on the same exact day. Follow what South Korea did they had a 277 die. USA has had 117,500 and counting. Adjust for population and the delta is massive. Unfortunately due to gross mismanagement of the situation here in the USA it is impossible to do that now.

 

But just as an example in the last few days in response to just 79 new COVID19 cases in South Korea they did this:

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/seoul-closes-public-institutions-after-south-korea-sees-79-new-covid-19-cases-180975032/

 

A reminder that was for 79 cases. Florida has 2500+ in one day over weekend. And they're doing nothing. Nothing at all.

Edited June 15, 2020 by pmd98052

[Georgia_Peaches]

4 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

 

I think its important to remember that South Korea and the USA had their very first COVD19 deaths on the same exact day. Follow what South Korea did they had a 277 die. USA has had 117,500 and counting. Adjust for population and the delta is massive. Unfortunately due to gross mismanagement of the situation here in the USA it is impossible to do that now.

 

But just as an example in the last few days in response to just 79 new COVID19 cases in South Korea they did this:

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/seoul-closes-public-institutions-after-south-korea-sees-79-new-covid-19-cases-180975032/

 

A reminder that was for 79 cases. Florida has 2500+ in one day over weekend. And they're doing nothing. Nothing at all.

I do understand what you are saying with regard to the numbers and I appreciate the link.  But I am still unclear on what you think the US should do.