ports open

[BND]

14 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

If ever. 

 

If there is another big outbreak on a cruise ship (and there will be if they start up too soon) it will be the end of the major cruise lines as we know them.

I still think for the short term (until vaccines are widely distributed) that once a vaccine is available, the cruise lines will require proof in order to board.  That's how they can avoid outbreaks onboard.

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, BND said:

This.  It's much better handled at the local level. There are very rural areas that have little to no cases.  We follow our state (and county) mandates.  For a while some counties had different rules due to case level (and how rural/urban they were).  It's one thing for countries that are the size of a US state to have a country-wide mandate and quite another for a country as large at the US to do so.  I rarely see anyone without a mask unless they are driving or doing something outside (or eating) and not around a lot of people.  

So you are in Favor of a Nationwide Mask Mandate?  If so, who would enforce and what penalty?

 

M8

[BND]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

So you are in Favor of a Nationwide Mask Mandate?  If so, who would enforce and what penalty?

 

M8

Where did I say that?  I said it's much better handled at the local level which is the opposite of nationwide mask mandate.

[yogimax]

1 minute ago, BND said:

Where did I say that?  I said it's much better handled at the local level which is the opposite of nationwide mask mandate.

Yes, but there is, or rather should be, a national role.  For example, supplies.  When ventilators and PPE were in great demand, the states were left to fight with one another for supplies.  These items should have been provided nationally.  There is a role for both the national government and the states.

[orville99]

18 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

 A nationwide mask mandate is needed immediately!

Several problems with this:

1) Masks are only effective if you wear a mask that actually provides protection (tested and certified);

2) Even a mask that is certified will only provide protection if it is actually worn properly - and the vast majority of images I've seen on the media make it look like Joe Public doesn't have a clue what that is;

3) The other major entry point for airborne viruses is the eyes, so you'd also need a national eye protection mandate; 

4) Unlike monolithic countries like Spain, Italy, etc. the U.S. is a federation of states, all of which have the sovereign right to ignore or countermand anything implemented at the Federal level that abrogates those rights reserved to the states. Any of the fifty states could literally tell the Federal government to "go pound rocks" on implementing a national mandate; and

5) You can't fix stupid, and a sizable percentage of the population would ignore a mandate anyway.

[Mapleleafforever]

7 minutes ago, BND said:

I still think for the short term (until vaccines are widely distributed) that once a vaccine is available, the cruise lines will require proof in order to board.  That's how they can avoid outbreaks onboard.

And since there has never been a vaccine for any Coronavirus and there may never be a safe and effective vaccine for Covid-19 it may be a long long time if they require a vaccine in order to cruise. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 minutes ago, BND said:

Where did I say that?  I said it's much better handled at the local level which is the opposite of nationwide mask mandate.

You didn’t. That’s why I asked again. Answered now. 
 

Thanks

M8

[yogimax]

2 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

And since there has never been a vaccine for any Coronavirus and there may never be a safe and effective vaccine for Covid-19 it may be a long long time if they require a vaccine in order to cruise. 

Is your point that cruises should begin without a vaccine?

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, yogimax said:

There is a role for both the national government and the states

There are probably a lot of us who would like less government in our lives. 
 

M8

[flyguyjake]

30 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Yep. Still waiting for that predicted spike from Labor Day here in Florida. Florida numbers continue to drop. 
 

M8

Well that's fake news. Simply google to find numerous articles from creditable sources that say cases and deaths are on the rise in Florida. Cases rising drastically in school aged children.

[Mapleleafforever]

2 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Is your point that cruises should begin without a vaccine?

Cruising is a recreational activity and I don't think they should start again until it's 100% safe to do so. 

 

 

 

[yogimax]

2 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

There are probably a lot of us who would like less government in our lives. 

Sure... when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor - less government.  

when we get sick - less government

when auto makers build unsafe cars - less government

when companies dump toxic waste into rivers - less government

when our kids go to school - less government

[yogimax]

Just now, Mapleleafforever said:

Cruising is a recreational activity and I don't think they should start again until it's 100% safe to do so. 

 

Agree, with the proviso that we will never reach 100% but we should come as close as possible.

[Milwaukee Eight]

4 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Well that's fake news. Simply google to find numerous articles from creditable sources that say cases and deaths are on the rise in Florida. Cases rising drastically in school aged children.

Don’t know where you’re getting your numbers from. My data show a continued decrease in cases. Today was 2400 and yesterday was 2300. A big difference from the 15k a day we were having. 
 

 

[orville99]

7 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Well that's fake news. Simply google to find numerous articles from creditable sources that say cases and deaths are on the rise in Florida. Cases rising drastically in school aged children.

Here is the latest data for Florida (updated on 9/22):

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/state_reports_latest.pdf

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, orville99 said:

Here is the latest data for Florida (updated on 9/22):

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/state_reports_latest.pdf

Thanks. A little busy for viewing on my iPhone. It verifies what I was saying. 
 

Thanks

[flyguyjake]

Aren't we required to wear a seat belt in "our" car? Isn't it against the law to drink and drive in "your" car? Isn't it against the law to text on "your" cell phone while driving "your" car? Do these things infringe on your "personal" liberties? I'm so sick of anti-maskers. I'm also sick of the lack of compassion in my country. Where's all the pro-lifers that want to ban all abortions and contraception? What about these lives? Don't these people matter? Many anti-maskers have become infected and some have died. Herman Cain comes to mind. Even Trump has said he has lost "several" friends to Covid. Hoax?

[flyguyjake]

12 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

There are probably a lot of us who would like less government in our lives. 
 

M8

There are many of us who wish you would take "personal" responsibility and wear a mask. 200K+ of us.

[flyguyjake]

8 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Don’t know where you’re getting your numbers from. My data show a continued decrease in cases. Today was 2400 and yesterday was 2300. A big difference from the 15k a day we were having. 
 

 

That's a HUGE unacceptable number of daily infected. Most countries lock down for less than 400 daily cases and FL is just 1 state of 30 states seeing at least that many daily infections.

[Milwaukee Eight]

Just now, flyguyjake said:

There are many of us who wish you would take "personal" responsibility and wear a mask. 200K+ of us.

I don’t have a issue with wearing a mask. We wear ours when social distancing is not practical or indoors. 

 

You were the one who said we need a Nationwide Mask Mandate. Not me. I just want to know who would enforce and what are penalties for not complying. 

 

M8

[bouhunter]

4 hours ago, StormySeas said:

my next cruise is December 6th this year. 

Probably not.

[time4u2go]

57 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Yep. Still waiting for that predicted spike from Labor Day here in Florida. Florida numbers continue to drop. 
 

M8

Actually the number of cases in Florida has been fairly flat for about the past two weeks.

Edited September 23, 2020 by time4u2go

[Milwaukee Eight]

8 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

That's a HUGE unacceptable number of daily infected. Most countries lock down for less than 400 daily cases and FL is just 1 state of 30 states seeing at least that many daily infections.

Zero is best but Florida except for Miami-Dade/Broward, has schools in session, High School Football, most restaurants open at 50%. Disney and Universal open, at reduced capacity. I’m very happy to see the reduction in cases. 

[Mapleleafforever]

20 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Agree, with the proviso that we will never reach 100% but we should come as close as possible.

Having said that though I believe a safe and effective vaccine is further away than what is being said. And based on recovery rates a vaccine may not even be needed however profitable it promises to be. 

[orville99]

10 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

That's a HUGE unacceptable number of daily infected. Most countries lock down for less than 400 daily cases and FL is just 1 state of 30 states seeing at least that many daily infections.

And yet, on a per capita basis, the death rate in the U.S. is lower than eight of those countries. BTW, can anyone explain how a country with 10X the population of the U.S., and where the virus originated, can have a per capita death rate ranked #142 out of the150 countries that are reporting data.