Alaska 2021 looking very unlikely

[farmersfight]

7 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

@farmersfight I agree that the CDC is doing everything they can to prevent another outbreak. I'm not making an assertion about the measures they are taking, just pointing out that the net result is zero cruising. Personally, I believe the current ban will need to be lifted before cruising resumes but what do I know? 

 

I believe I was the one who linked the article about NCL air filtration ;-). MSC installed something similar. I believe all cruise lines will. However; it's important to note that these are NOT required by the CDC so one must ask themselves why the cruise lines are investing in such a system?? I suspect it is being proactive regarding the spread of other viruses and it is also a significant measure to help improve the overall perception of cruising. IMO, it is negative public perception (cruises as floating petri dishes) that will have the greatest impact on the future of the industry. 

 

Regarding POA, that's a tough call by October, 2021. My friendly advice is that you don't get your hopes up. Govenor Ige is not taking many chances and I suspect that Hawaii will be the very last place to allow cruising. Of course, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. Have a plan B. The good news is that flights into HI are ridiculously inexpensive right now,. We paid less than $300 round trip departing January and returning in April. Keep an eye on southwest. I believe they release the fall schedule in April. At this time, southwest is the only airline I'm willing to fly because they have zero penalties for cancellations.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and whether any of the cruise lines do indeed attempt to restart cruising (even if in a limited capacity to/from their private islands) under the CDC's CSO. Or, as I mentioned, if they hold out and wait for the vaccines. Once the vaccines are fully distributed and any U.S. citizen can get one (their choice), imo the cruise lines will require vaccinations to board their ships. At that point, the CDC may rescind the CSO and allow full resumption of cruising.

 

"I believe I was the one who linked the article about NCL air filtration ;-)." I knew this info came from a reliable source 😉. Thanks.

 

Oh I have a plan B. And a plan C & D. After the PoA cruise, I have 3 more booked (1 for Dec 2021 & the remaining 2 for Jan & Feb 2022).

I'm still hopeful that October 2021 will be enough time for the vaccine to be fully distributed here in the U.S. and all cruise ship pax & crew will be vaccinated (imo, the cruise lines will mandate pax be vaccinated).

 

Wow, $300 round trip from Michigan to Hawaii? That is an excellent fare. I knew Southwest provided service to/from Hawaii. But, are there stops (from Mich to Hawaii & returning)? I did a few mock boardings and the best I saw (for the dates just before & after my PoA cruise in Oct 2021) was Delta roundtrip from Grand Rapids, MI with 1 stop (change planes) in Minneapolis, MN. But the price was $1200. That is a good feature about Southwest; no penalties for cancellations. I'm just leery of Southwest because I don't want to have to "puddle jump" all the way out to Hawaii and back, lol.

[BermudaBound2014]

Fares are ridiculously low right now which is why I recommend setting an alarm on your calendar for the next block southwest releases. I always spend the night in either California or Arizona on my way to Hawaii. It tremendously helps with jetlag and allows you to reach Hawaii in the late morning for a full day upon arrival. I purchased ticked in two segments. DTW to Oakland (one stop in Denver) and then the next morning flying Oakland direct to Maui. I prefer to break up the trip. Last time we went to Hawaii we flew Delta and they had an excellent overnight promo for phoenix. It is much easier to get there in one day, but getting home in one flight is sometimes tricky due to the time change working against you.

 

Have you thought about a Plan B for Hawaii? Still go even if the cruise is cancelled? Hawaii is very easy to do on your own. Potable water. English language. If you buy the plane tickets you wouldn't have to cancel the entire trip. Just throwing out ideas :)

 

To stay on topic, I do believe Alaska will open up to cruising long before Hawaii does, but I don't expect that to be the 2021 season. I hope I'm wrong.

Edited December 8, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[Crazy planning mom]

3 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Thank you for that great feedback & information. You are very knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Yeah, I think I do recall that NCL got special permission (variance) brokered by Sen Daniel Inouye (I believe) to operate the Pride of Aloha (Sky) & the Pride of Hawaii (Jade) in Hawaiian (US) waters. As I recall, this deal was allowed because NCL agreed to purchase one of the unfinished hulls that were started to be built in a U.S. shipyard (New Orleans, I believe). The ships were being constructed for a U.S, company that didn't make it (bankrupt) during construction. I think MARAD had taken possession of the hulls. Then, NCL stepped in and agreed to purchase the first unfinished hull but also got a variance to complete the ship construction in a European shipyard (in Germany, I think).

 

So that NCL could start up their Hawaiian operation sooner and while the new hull (to be PoA) was being finished in the German shipyard, Sen Inouye brokered that variance allowing NCL to operate the Sky & Jade in Hawaii. I think these 2 ships were even temporarily flagged U.S.? As you said, the Sky became the Pride of Aloha & the Jade became the Pride of Hawaii. I'm not sure but if & when they were operating under the U.S. flag, they had to hire U.S. documented/licensed mariners?

 

Thanks for clarifying the issue about whether the PoA can sail and carry passengers between Hawaii & the U.S. mainland (without a foreign port stop) and vice-versa. It makes sense that as part of the special variance, the PoA was limited to the Hawaiian islands only. Also, part of the deal was to allow the PoA to be completed in a foreign (German) shipyard and still be eligible to carry the U.S. flag. I'm sure NCL wanted to complete the ship in a foreign shipyard because it would be cheaper than finishing it in the U.S. shipyard where it was started.

 

I really find it really interesting what you said that in the beginning, the 3 ships, the Pride of Aloha, Pride of Hawaii & Pride of America were all operating at the same time and were all booked up. I'm wondering why the market shrank back to where the PoA is able to handle it by herself now. I would think that the market would have held strong or even grew. I have a feeling that it was part of the deal that the Pride of Aloha (Sky) & Pride of Hawaii (Jade) would return to normal operations under NCL (as before) when the PoA was fully up and running in Hawaii. With this high demand, it's too bad NCL couldn't have bought that 2nd hull (under the same variance) and brought a second U.S. flag cruise ship into the Hawaiian service along side the PoA. If NCL had 3 ships fully booked out there, I'm sure 2 would've been no problem.

 

For me, bottom line is that at least the U.S. has 1 U.S. flagged large passenger ship, even if she is restricted to Hawaiian waters. With her very port intensive 7-day "cruises", the PoA acts more like a floating/moving hotel rather than a cruise ship (except for the little bit of cruising she does off the Napali coast).

 

Btw, I am booked on PoA for Oct 23-30, 2021 (hoping Oct is late enough in the year that cruises will be up & running again and passengers & crew will be vaccinated). Because the PoA mainly sails at night (to get to the next Hawaiian island/port the next morning), I decided to just book an inside cabin thinking to myself, "what am I going to see on a balcony at night"? Plus, with only 4 studio cabins on the PoA, I was actually able to get an inside cabin for less than one of the studios. Bigger room, less price = win, win.

 

I'm really looking forward to cruising on the PoA next October. Thanks again.

 

Cheers 🍻.

You will love it!  It was my family's favorite trip thus far.

[farmersfight]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Fares are ridiculously low right now which is why I recommend setting an alarm on your calendar for the next block southwest releases. I always spend the night in either California or Arizona on my way to Hawaii. It tremendously helps with jetlag and allows you to reach Hawaii in the late morning for a full day upon arrival. I purchased ticked in two segments. DTW to Oakland (one stop in Denver) and then the next morning flying Oakland direct to Maui. I prefer to break up the trip. Last time we went to Hawaii we flew Delta and they had an excellent overnight promo for phoenix. It is much easier to get there in one day, but getting home in one flight is sometimes tricky due to the time change working against you.

 

Have you thought about a Plan B for Hawaii? Still go even if the cruise is cancelled? Hawaii is very easy to do on your own. Potable water. English language. If you buy the plane tickets you wouldn't have to cancel the entire trip. Just throwing out ideas 🙂

 

To stay on topic, I do believe Alaska will open up to cruising long before Hawaii does, but I don't expect that to be the 2021 season. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Thanks for the great tip re Southwest Airlines. I'll definitely check their prices when they release their fall schedule in April. As a matter of fact, after I get off here on CC, I'll go on Southwest's web site and see what kind of fight segments I could fly to get to Honolulu from Grand Rapids. (I'm pretty sure SWA flies out of GR). That's a good idea about breaking up the flights to deal with the jet lag. My younger son attends the University of Arizona in Tucson so I could perhaps fly there (or Phoenix) and pay him a visit on my way to Hawaii. When I looked for potential flights to Honolulu from Grand Rapids, the best one was Delta from GR to Minneapolis, change planes in Minneapolis (only a 38 min layover) then on to Honolulu. I did notice than coming back, the flights were over-nighters (red-eyes) so you didn't arrive until the next morning. In our huge metropolis of Muskegon (😉), United has 2 flights a day to/from Chicago (O'Hare). If I have to make 1 stop, I will look at United out of Muskegon (United also flies out of GR) because it saves the relatively painless 45 min drive from Muskegon to Grand Rapids. However, for non-stop flights, I have to go out of GR. When I looked at United, I saw an outbound flight from Chicago (O'Hare) that went to LAX then a plane change to get out to Honolulu. However, strangely enough, on the United return flight, you went directly from Honolulu to Chicago (O'Hare). Then, I would catch that short United Express flight from Chicago (O'Hare) to Muskegon. I will definitely keep checking United and hopefully, I'll see an outbound flight from Chicago (O'Hare) all the way to Honolulu.

 

That's a good idea about still going to Hawaii if the PoA cruise is cancelled. I will definitely ponder that one. I already have a hotel booked on Waikiki Beach and even already have a rental car booked (I plan on "touring" Oahu, especially driving up to the North Shore to watch the surfing). Heck, I could even catch a Hawaiian Airlines flight to the other islands (if I don't mind packing, unpacking, and packing again, lol).

 

After watching the news tonight, I'm hopeful that October 2021 in Hawaii will be a "green" light. POTUS is issuing an Executive Order that U.S. citizens will get the covid-19 vaccine(s) first before they are shipped to other countries. He said he will use the Defense Production Act, if need be. Also, he indicated that the first vaccines will be given out (to health care workers, 1st responders) in a matter of days. This bodes well for the general U.S. population to have access to the vaccines maybe by as early as spring 2021 but if not, by summer or fall 2021.

Edited December 9, 2020 by farmersfight

[farmersfight]

58 minutes ago, Crazy planning mom said:

You will love it!  It was my family's favorite trip thus far.

 

Thanks! Hawaii is definitely on my "bucket list". Seeing the Hawaiian islands on a floating/moving "hotel" (PoA) where you only have to unpack/pack once, is definitely the way to go...

[electro]

18 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

 

 

After watching the news tonight, I'm hopeful that October 2021 in Hawaii will be a "green" light. POTUS is issuing an Executive Order that U.S. citizens will get the covid-19 vaccine(s) first before they are shipped to other countries. He said he will use the Defense Production Act, if need be. Also, he indicated that the first vaccines will be given out (to health care workers, 1st responders) in a matter of days. This bodes well for the general U.S. population to have access to the vaccines maybe by as early as spring 2021 but if not, by summer or fall 2021.

I believe that the executive order is mostly political theatre. He really doesn't have the power to stop other countries from getting the vaccine. Pfizer did not get money from the US government for the development of the vaccine.

Health Canada has approved the Pfizer vaccine today so we will be getting a shipment before the end of the year. The first shipment will be 249, 000.

[Seacruise]

Over the years I have written several articles on the PSA and the difference.

As the PSA stands now the POA can NOT makes trips between Hawaii and the mainland.
When covid 19 first started there was talk by NCL of doing Alaska cruises out of Seattle with POA because she was US Flagged and thus could miss Victoria. That was when this part of the PSA came into play. This idea was soon shot down.

Yes NCL started with 3 ships in Hawaii but there was a lot more to the whole issue of those cruises out of Hawaii. If you remember the Norwegian Wind did 10/11 day cruises around Hawaii but needed to go down to Christmas Island for it's distant port. 
So NCL starts NCL America and starts the sailings.
It soon becomes apparent that hiring US Citizens as crew is a very difficult problem because word soon got out that those of the younger generation don't want to work for minimum wage cleaning cabins etc. Many didn't get much time in port and thus those grand ideas of working/living in Hawaii soon went out the window. Many quit after only a few weeks of actual work. It was a revolving door.
NCL was left to scramble to get cabin staff. The only way for this to work for them was to hire "cleaners" in the various ports that came onboard while the ship was in port. That is still the case today.
Part of the problem was after x hours the Cabin Stewards were entitled to overtime. We all know how long a cabin steward works. This was why the cleaners in the ports so the OT didn't have to be paid.

This was also compounded because a US Flagged vessel can not have a Casino open in US waters around Hawaii. Thus the reason why the 3 ships didn't have casinos. Since there was no revenue from the casino to NCL America they had no choice but to increase the price of Hawaii cruises.

After a couple of years NCL America pulled 2 ships from Hawaii and returned them to NCL.
it should be noted that a US Flagged vessel needs dry-dock space in a US dry-dock. This in itself was a problem on the west coast as the US ship building industry was mostly building/servicing US Navy ships. It didn't help when Evergreen in Portland Oregon sold one of it's dry-docks to the Bahamas.

Things are so bad with dry-dock space in the USA that US Reliance Defence and Engineering of India was awarded a contract to service the 7th Fleet in 2017. 

There is whole other discussion onto why there can be no waver for the PSA bypass Victoria and it has to do with the crews Visa status.

[ColeThornton]

32 minutes ago, Seacruise said:

Over the years I have written several articles on the PSA and the difference.

As the PSA stands now the POA can NOT makes trips between Hawaii and the mainland.
When covid 19 first started there was talk by NCL of doing Alaska cruises out of Seattle with POA because she was US Flagged and thus could miss Victoria. That was when this part of the PSA came into play. This idea was soon shot down.

Yes NCL started with 3 ships in Hawaii but there was a lot more to the whole issue of those cruises out of Hawaii. If you remember the Norwegian Wind did 10/11 day cruises around Hawaii but needed to go down to Christmas Island for it's distant port. 
So NCL starts NCL America and starts the sailings.
It soon becomes apparent that hiring US Citizens as crew is a very difficult problem because word soon got out that those of the younger generation don't want to work for minimum wage cleaning cabins etc. Many didn't get much time in port and thus those grand ideas of working/living in Hawaii soon went out the window. Many quit after only a few weeks of actual work. It was a revolving door.
NCL was left to scramble to get cabin staff. The only way for this to work for them was to hire "cleaners" in the various ports that came onboard while the ship was in port. That is still the case today.
Part of the problem was after x hours the Cabin Stewards were entitled to overtime. We all know how long a cabin steward works. This was why the cleaners in the ports so the OT didn't have to be paid.

This was also compounded because a US Flagged vessel can not have a Casino open in US waters around Hawaii. Thus the reason why the 3 ships didn't have casinos. Since there was no revenue from the casino to NCL America they had no choice but to increase the price of Hawaii cruises.

After a couple of years NCL America pulled 2 ships from Hawaii and returned them to NCL.
it should be noted that a US Flagged vessel needs dry-dock space in a US dry-dock. This in itself was a problem on the west coast as the US ship building industry was mostly building/servicing US Navy ships. It didn't help when Evergreen in Portland Oregon sold one of it's dry-docks to the Bahamas.

Things are so bad with dry-dock space in the USA that US Reliance Defence and Engineering of India was awarded a contract to service the 7th Fleet in 2017. 

There is whole other discussion onto why there can be no waver for the PSA bypass Victoria and it has to do with the crews Visa status.

 

 

Don't you mean the PVSA?    Passenger Vessel Services Act.

[farmersfight]

6 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Don't you mean the PVSA?    Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

Yeah, I think he means the PVSA. But what do I know? Lol...

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, Seacruise said:

Over the years I have written several articles on the PSA and the difference.

As the PSA stands now the POA can NOT makes trips between Hawaii and the mainland.
When covid 19 first started there was talk by NCL of doing Alaska cruises out of Seattle with POA because she was US Flagged and thus could miss Victoria. That was when this part of the PSA came into play. This idea was soon shot down.

Yes NCL started with 3 ships in Hawaii but there was a lot more to the whole issue of those cruises out of Hawaii. If you remember the Norwegian Wind did 10/11 day cruises around Hawaii but needed to go down to Christmas Island for it's distant port. 
So NCL starts NCL America and starts the sailings.
It soon becomes apparent that hiring US Citizens as crew is a very difficult problem because word soon got out that those of the younger generation don't want to work for minimum wage cleaning cabins etc. Many didn't get much time in port and thus those grand ideas of working/living in Hawaii soon went out the window. Many quit after only a few weeks of actual work. It was a revolving door.
NCL was left to scramble to get cabin staff. The only way for this to work for them was to hire "cleaners" in the various ports that came onboard while the ship was in port. That is still the case today.
Part of the problem was after x hours the Cabin Stewards were entitled to overtime. We all know how long a cabin steward works. This was why the cleaners in the ports so the OT didn't have to be paid.

This was also compounded because a US Flagged vessel can not have a Casino open in US waters around Hawaii. Thus the reason why the 3 ships didn't have casinos. Since there was no revenue from the casino to NCL America they had no choice but to increase the price of Hawaii cruises.

After a couple of years NCL America pulled 2 ships from Hawaii and returned them to NCL.
it should be noted that a US Flagged vessel needs dry-dock space in a US dry-dock. This in itself was a problem on the west coast as the US ship building industry was mostly building/servicing US Navy ships. It didn't help when Evergreen in Portland Oregon sold one of it's dry-docks to the Bahamas.

Things are so bad with dry-dock space in the USA that US Reliance Defence and Engineering of India was awarded a contract to service the 7th Fleet in 2017. 

There is whole other discussion onto why there can be no waver for the PSA bypass Victoria and it has to do with the crews Visa status.

 

Thanks for your post and information wrt the PoA, the PVSA and the other NCL cruise ships that cruised in/around Hawaiian waters and called at Hawaiian islands/ports.

 

Understand that the PoA can not cruise bewtween Hawaii & the U.S. mainland despite being U.S. flagged. I assumed this was part of the agreement struck between Sen Inouye and NCL, but you are saying that it is actually in the PVSA?

 

I do recall NCL operating 2 of their other ships, the Spirit & the Jade in the Hawaiian market and renaming them the Pride of Aloha and the Pride of Hawaii. I believe that as part of the "deal", these ships were temporarily flagged U.S. and allowed to cruise solely in Hawaiian waters without having to make that distant port call (i.e. to Christmas Island). I believe this was a temporary allowance until the PoA was completed and put into operation in Hawaii. My question is; were the Pride of Aloha & Pride of Hawaii required to be crewed with U.S. citizens (while they were U..S. flagged)? As another side note; didn't NCL also operate another one of their ships in/around Hawaii that had to sail to Fannin Island?

 

As far as difficulty getting U.S. citizens as cabin staff on the PoA, I'm kind of surprised by this. Doesn't seem to be a problem for all the land based hotels in the U.S., so I'm wondering why it was a problem for the PoA? Maybe the cost of living in Hawaii was too much for employees that were to make only minimum wage.

 

Good point about the revenue from casinos. I see why the PoA cruises are more expensive. But, didn't stop me, lol. I'm booked on her Oct 23-30, 2021.

 

I'm also a little surprised about what you said about dry-dock availability in the U.S., considering San Diego has NASSCO and there are other shipyards with dry-docks on the Gulf coast (Mobile, AL & Gulfport, MS for example) These Gulf coast dry-docks would require Pana,ma Canal transits though.

 

Not sure what you meant by crew visa status, waiver to the PVSA and the by-pass of Victoria, B.C. Could you elaborate?

 

Thanks...

[Seacruise]

21 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

Understand that the PoA can not cruise between Hawaii & the U.S. mainland despite being U.S. flagged. I assumed this was part of the agreement struck between Sen Inouye and NCL, but you are saying that it is actually in the PVSA?

 

When the PVSA was changed Sen Inouye fought hard for this amendment to not be adopted. It was only allowed when all the exceptions were put in place. He wanted to protect jobs in Hawaii and hotel space. We all know not much has changed with hotel space in Hawaii.
The amendment now forms part of the PVSA

21 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

As far as difficulty getting U.S. citizens as cabin staff on the PoA, I'm kind of surprised by this. Doesn't seem to be a problem for all the land based hotels in the U.S., so I'm wondering why it was a problem for the PoA?

As we know things have changed over the years as far as who does what jobs. I live in Canada and when I grew up I picked Berries etc. That work is not done by the younger generation today it is done by the SE Asian community.
The same would be true in much of the USA as to who cleans hotel rooms, picks vegetables etc.

The interest of younger citizens of our countries have no desire to do these jobs.
When NCL started many college students signed up for the job for say one contract thinking that they could winter in Hawaii get a great tan be on the beach etc. and be paid for it. What they didn't know before hand how damn hard a job this type of work was/is.
I think as we move along in years it is getting tougher to get the younger generation to do any of these jobs.

21 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

I'm also a little surprised about what you said about dry-dock availability in the U.S., considering San Diego has NASSCO and there are other shipyards with dry-docks on the Gulf coast (Mobile, AL & Gulfport, MS for example) These Gulf coast dry-docks would require Panama Canal transits though.

Just think of how long it takes to dry-dock a carrier for instance. In can be in dry-dock for a year thus taking up valuable dry-dock space that can not be used for anything else.
A couple of years ago the Infinity from Celebrity needed emergency dry-dock to replace a azpod bearing during the Alaska season. The problem was there was no space on the west coast. A deal was made in Victoria at the Engraving dock to float our lonely submarine so the Infinity could get fixed.

21 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

Not sure what you meant by crew visa status, waiver to the PVSA and the by-pass of Victoria, B.C. Could you elaborate?

 

Thanks...

I am not up to date on exactly what Visa's crew need at this point. What I understand is if a waver was granted they would need a different visa from what they get now and it would have to be issued before they left their home country from the USA Consulate or Embassy in their country. I understand this can be very time consuming at best, little mind the tens of thousands that would have to be processed by the various cruise lines. 

[dexddd]

For those saying POA can't sail between US Mainland and Hawaii, I guess our trip with others here on CC in March 2016 must have been a ghost trip. Ok, maybe a one off.

[farmersfight]

9 hours ago, dexddd said:

For those saying POA can't sail between US Mainland and Hawaii, I guess our trip with others here on CC in March 2016 must have been a ghost trip. Ok, maybe a one off.

 

Interesting....maybe NCL got a one-time exemption? It's too bad that PoA couldn't continue to sail from the U.S. mainland to Hawaii and/or Alaska (w/o a stop in Victoria, BC), especially during these trying times with the covid pandemic and Canadian ports staying closed to cruise ships.

 

Btw, the only ship with ghosts is the Queen Mary in Long Beach, CA., lol.

 

https://www.queenmary.com/tours/tours-exhibits/haunted-encounters/

[bonvoyagie]

In fact the POA has made at least one or two passenger hauling trips to SFO for drydockings. I think that her last drydock was done in Hawaii at the Naval base shipyards. We were on the POA in 2006 while all three ships were sailing. Yes in the beginning they had lots of issues with the US crew - mostly collage aged young adults who thought the job would be easier than it was. They often jumped ship during port stops. NCL America set up a special training center in on the mainland in order to wash out those who were not up to the task. Also all of the crew had to meet USCG requirements as a seaman. I believe that the Pride of Aloha and Pride of Hawaii were in place just a few months prior to the POAs arrival. I figured that sooner or later the novelity of the cruises would wear off and they would get rid of the other ships. Actually in the beginning the Hawaii cruises were not that expensive - I remember that our flight and cruise along with two nights in a hotel were around 5K. 

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, bonvoyagie said:

Also all of the crew had to meet USCG requirements as a seaman. I believe that the Pride of Aloha and Pride of Hawaii were in place just a few months prior to the POAs arrival.

 

Were the deck & engineering officers also required to be U.S. citizens on the Pride of Aloha & Pride of Hawaii when they were operating in the Hawaiian islands? My guess is yes (unless they got a special exemption) since they were flagged U.S. (even temporarily).

Edited December 11, 2020 by farmersfight

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, bonvoyagie said:

Yes in the beginning they had lots of issues with the US crew - mostly collage aged young adults who thought the job would be easier than it was. They often jumped ship during port stops.