For those who are booked, are you happy with the “mandatory” shore excursions?

[gmjc2]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

South Korean study from a restaurant indicates that 15 feet is more appropriate and safe.

Absolutely agree with this!!!

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

Any mask is better than no mask when someone spits or sneezes within 10 feet of you ( 6 feet has been proven to be ineffective by scientists.)

Yeah, I have seen some of the reports about that 6 foot issue including a very recent (and detailed) investigation in South Korea that contact traced multiple cases of spread to folks about 20 feet from the source!  Whether that was an anomaly or might be a norm remains to be seen.  But it is laughable when politicians say "follow the science" and much of what we accept is nothing close to science.  Just as a simple example, nobody has been able to demonstrate (scientifically) that elevators are ever safe.  And yet, cruise lines will be seeking start up approval with no solution to elevator spread other then to demand mask wearing.  Make no mistake...most of what is used for masks will not prevent a virus from moving through the material.  Even a N95 mask theoretically would allow 5% of virus particles through the mask and even that required proper mask fitting and wearing which is rare.  

 

Hank

[gmjc2]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Yeah, I have seen some of the reports about that 6 foot issue including a very recent (and detailed) investigation in South Korea that contact traced multiple cases of spread to folks about 20 feet from the source!  Whether that was an anomaly or might be a norm remains to be seen.  But it is laughable when politicians say "follow the science" and much of what we accept is nothing close to science.  Just as a simple example, nobody has been able to demonstrate (scientifically) that elevators are ever safe.  And yet, cruise lines will be seeking start up approval with no solution to elevator spread other then to demand mask wearing.  Make no mistake...most of what is used for masks will not prevent a virus from moving through the material.  Even a N95 mask theoretically would allow 5% of virus particles through the mask and even that required proper mask fitting and wearing which is rare.  

 

Hank

I have seen protocols for cruise ship elevators from the lines themselves.

Floor markings for where to stand and reduced capacity per elevator. Of course there are at least 2 issues with that---1. The selfish idiots who will ignore the rules. 2. The longer wait times for an elevator when trying to get to dinner or show etc.

 

We will all have to put up with the new rules. I for one am willing to go with whatever we need to do to get back to sea!!!!!

[Hlitner]

4 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

I have seen protocols for cruise ship elevators from the lines themselves.

Floor markings for where to stand and reduced capacity per elevator. Of course there are at least 2 issues with that---1. The selfish idiots who will ignore the rules. 2. The longer wait times for an elevator when trying to get to dinner or show etc.

 

We will all have to put up with the new rules. I for one am willing to go with whatever we need to do to get back to sea!!!!!

The protocols are ridiculous.  Elevators are a huge problem everywhere and it is worse on ships because their elevators are relatively small.  The only safe way to use a ship elevator would be to limit each car to no more then folks who are traveling together (i.e. couples/families).  That would be almost impossible on most ships as vertical transportation is so vital to the use of a ship.  I am pretty healthy and do a lot of walking but trying to walk up 12 decks is rough and not doable by many cruisers.  Heck, most cruisers would wait 10 minutes for an elevator rather then walk down a single deck :).   This past July we rented 10th floor condo in Myrtle Beach.  The building had 3 large elevators (at least 3-4 times the size of most cruise ship elevators) and their protocol was that no more then one party (staying together) in an elevator.  If you called an elevator on the 10th floor and anyone was inside you had to smile and wait for another elevator until you finally got one that was empty.  On a ship you might wait hours for that to happen :(.    Social distancing is nearly impossible in many places on ships and mask wearing is not an option when folks are eating and drinking.  

 

Hank

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

I admit to only checking details for the UK but there is no mandate for business or family. Latest update from Boris is 10 days quarantine without test. 5 days if you are willing to pay $200 for a test on the 6th day of quarantine. Horses mouth, as I am British and get the latest updates from my family--On the UK gov website if you do not trust my family info! Feel free to check.

Have also read the the Prime Minister is making exceptions for "well heeled" tourists.  Money apparently talks despite the emerging second wave and the increased hospitalization.  

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Yeah, I have seen some of the reports about that 6 foot issue including a very recent (and detailed) investigation in South Korea that contact traced multiple cases of spread to folks about 20 feet from the source!  Whether that was an anomaly or might be a norm remains to be seen.  But it is laughable when politicians say "follow the science" and much of what we accept is nothing close to science.  Just as a simple example, nobody has been able to demonstrate (scientifically) that elevators are ever safe.  And yet, cruise lines will be seeking start up approval with no solution to elevator spread other then to demand mask wearing.  Make no mistake...most of what is used for masks will not prevent a virus from moving through the material.  Even a N95 mask theoretically would allow 5% of virus particles through the mask and even that required proper mask fitting and wearing which is rare.  

 

Hank

The South Korean study showed the virus was infectious at 15 feet in a specific restaurant environment.  and, as noted, elevator can/will become a real challenge for the ships to manage.  I recall reading that on the early Summer Mein Schiff cruise they blocked elevator use to 4 people and sectioned off the elevators into quarters to remind passengers to social distance and limit capacities.  Won't work on the large ships I've cruised on...the smaller ships, like Azamara, can more easily limit the number of passengers on elevators.  And if air circulation in MDRs is a problem and there is a need to place tables 15 feet apart, this will be a serious problem for many.  Hopefully the testing and practice cruises the cruise lines are proposing will address these issues.

[leck57]

6 hours ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

John Chernesky said last week that "ship-sponsored tours" MAY include tours by independent operators that are "approved" as safe by Princess.  So if the independent tour company agrees to "follow Princess' protocols" (and probably pays a premium to Princess for the privilege), they might be allowed to run tours in addition to the cruise line's tours.  It's something Princess is working on now.

 

By the time they sort this out, anyone on a cruise ship will have had the vaccine and therefore will be of little risk to anyone. By the time cruising starts up again none of this will be relevant.

[Hlitner]

30 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

The South Korean study showed the virus was infectious at 15 feet in a specific restaurant environment.  and, as noted, elevator can/will become a real challenge for the ships to manage.  I recall reading that on the early Summer Mein Schiff cruise they blocked elevator use to 4 people and sectioned off the elevators into quarters to remind passengers to social distance and limit capacities.  Won't work on the large ships I've cruised on...the smaller ships, like Azamara, can more easily limit the number of passengers on elevators.  And if air circulation in MDRs is a problem and there is a need to place tables 15 feet apart, this will be a serious problem for many.  Hopefully the testing and practice cruises the cruise lines are proposing will address these issues.

Perhaps!  But nobody has posted a possible solution to my pet peeve issue which is testing!  All the start-ups in Europe (and the CDC Cruise Guidelines) rely on testing to keep COVID cases off the ships.  But given the problems with testing this concept is absurd and that was proven with all the COVID cases on the European cruises.  While testing certainly does reduce the risk and number of those with COVID, no current test comes close to eliminating COVID from cruises.  Testing has been over hyped and often misunderstood.   The fast tests (antigen) are near useless for cruises since they have an approximate 20% false negative rate (and also some false positives).  The much more accurate PCR tests take longer to process.  And neither type test can detect somebody who was recently exposed to COVID (i.e. on their travel to the cruise port from home).  It generally takes 3-7 days until an exposed person will test positive!  So some of those folks will get on the ships, develop symptoms (or possibly by asymptomatic spreaders) and cause lots of problems (an understatement).

 

I still contend that the only reasonable solution is a mandatory vaccination policy.  While that might not be perfect it is pretty close.  If everyone on a ship has been vaccinated (several weeks prior to boarding the ship) the chance of getting a COVID case is very unlikely.

 

Hank

[DrivesLikeMario]

2 hours ago, leck57 said:

 

By the time they sort this out, anyone on a cruise ship will have had the vaccine and therefore will be of little risk to anyone. By the time cruising starts up again none of this will be relevant.

And you know this how?  Or are you speculating?  I think John Chernesky and Princess would argue with you on your point.  They say they're moving full steam ahead on AK for the summer.  I'll believe that when I see it, but that's what they're saying.  🍀

[Oulton Jim]

On the subject of approved independent land-based our companies I hope that by the time of our Princess cruise to the Baltic [September 2021] we shall be able to take our already booked independent 2-day tour of St Petersburg. This was close to half price compared to the ship's equivalent tour. 

[caribill]

16 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 Getting off a cruise ship without being on a tour may likely become  requirement for some time.  Whining about costs for those of us fortunate enough to frequently cruise and vacation in foreign countries is disingenuous - sorry.  If I have visited a port several times in the past (Barcelona, for example), my problem is not the costs of a ship excursion, it is that most of their excursions go to places I have visited before and the other ones are not of interest to me. Before the pandemic, I would use local transportation to visit sights and sites I had not seen before.

 

Either pay the tour price - likely increased over pre-pandemic prices do to increased touring costs to keep people safe - or not get off the ship.  Reports from some of the cruisers on cruises that started up in Europe indicated a number of the ship's excursions were reasonably priced.

 

[caribill]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 trying to deal with elevators that are basically COVID chambers if there are others in the car,

 

 

 

Since the novel corona virus is mainly spread by small particles of it in the air, even an empty elevator can already be a Covid chamber when you enter it.

[leck57]

8 hours ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

And you know this how?  Or are you speculating?  I think John Chernesky and Princess would argue with you on your point.  They say they're moving full steam ahead on AK for the summer.  I'll believe that when I see it, but that's what they're saying.  🍀

 

Just being realistic the way I see things at the moment. Seems to me that cruise lines are stalling and waiting for the vaccine to be well distributed. I read yesterday that even the boss of RC said it will be the vaccine that gets cruising going again, not half baked efforts like limited passengers, masks, social distancing etc.

I want to cruise as much as anyone but I have finally accepted that I just need to be patient, wait for most to get the vaccine and then away we go. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

The problem with all of this is that the vaccines protect the vaccinated from a specific strain of COVID-19. It is not a panacea for killing off the virus or stopping its transmission or even making cruising "safe."  As reported yesterday over 1,000 new cases in southeast England appear to epidemiologists to be a new or mutated strain.  Not good, if valid.  Will at a minimum suggest that periodic boosters will be required.  Likely it could make cruising as unpredictable as it is today.  I can foresee that masks, social distancing and other preventive measures could still be the norm for our next scheduled cruise in March 2022 (which we can cancel 30 days out for a full refund).  The bottom mine is that no one knows what will be safe to cruise and which countries/ports will be safe, to include the cruise lines themselves.  

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

We do similar even in ports we have never visited, such as Melbourne several years ago.  Public transportation and a little study can get you to interesting places quickly and easily, and can be more fun than a tour.  

 

The issue of tour costs rest in the eye of the beholder.  In many places it makes sense to use a ship's tour such as traveling to Marrakech from a 14 hour stop in Casablanca and in places where the cultures are unfamiliar.  Then there are places like Dubrovnik which I have visited well over 25 times, driven the coast road at least ten times (stay under the posted speed limit when roads are wet!), and driven across Croatia and Serbia more time than I can count.  Do I need a tour guide?  Nope (even speak a bit of the language).  And I know the location of the very best gelato in Sibenik.

[CruiseMrB]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Since the novel corona virus is mainly spread by small particles of it in the air, even an empty elevator can already be a Covid chamber when you enter it.

This is why I love smaller (~2500 passenger) boats. When I go cruising on this size ship, I lose weight as I am walking around a lot and using the stairs a majority of the time. That's doable on a spread of usable decks that goes from say, 3 to 11 or 12. Once you get into a larger spread on a larger boat, it's a problem. 

 

I'm assuming that if and when I start cruising again (booked for late 2021 on a ship that doesn't exist yet), I will be even more careful about elevator usage. My goal would be to use elevators only when carrying bags.

Edited December 16, 2020 by CruiseMrB

[Daniel A]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:10 PM, DrivesLikeMario said:

John Chernesky said last week that "ship-sponsored tours" MAY include tours by independent operators that are "approved" as safe by Princess.  So if the independent tour company agrees to "follow Princess' protocols" (and probably pays a premium to Princess for the privilege), they might be allowed to run tours in addition to the cruise line's tours.  It's something Princess is working on now.

This is consistent with the language from the CLIA Core Requirements.  CLIA does not require ship sponsored excursions only, rather they require approval from the cruise line that the private companies will follow protocols established by the cruise line.

 

Per CLIA website: 

"Shore Excursions: Only permit shore excursions according to the cruise operators' prescribed protocols, with strict adherence required of all passengers and denial of re-boarding for any passengers that do not comply."

[Ombud]

19 hours ago, leck57 said:

 

By the time they sort this out, anyone on a cruise ship will have had the vaccine and therefore will be of little risk to anyone. By the time cruising starts up again none of this will be relevant.

I've heard that 85% of available vaccine doses through 2021 has been bought up by USA, Japan, and EU (probably includes UK). So this issue might be around until 2022. 

 

To respond only to thread title: "For those who are booked, are you happy with the “mandatory” shore excursions?" Although I'm not "happy" with the prospect of having to do ship excursions in Queensland,  I'm encouraged by other reports stating Princess is willing to expand their options. I will not do California Coastal excursions with them ..... I live here and could lead them myself 

 

Vaccines are rolling out for those over 16. I have only 1 cruise on the books with kids under 16 and that is a California Coastal

Edited December 16, 2020 by Ombud

[leck57]

3 hours ago, Ombud said:

I've heard that 85% of available vaccine doses through 2021 has been bought up by USA, Japan, and EU (probably includes UK). So this issue might be around until 2022. 

 

To respond only to thread title: "For those who are booked, are you happy with the “mandatory” shore excursions?" Although I'm not "happy" with the prospect of having to do ship excursions in Queensland,  I'm encouraged by other reports stating Princess is willing to expand their options. I will not do California Coastal excursions with them ..... I live here and could lead them myself 

 

 

 

I think you are right in that the issue might be around until 2022 but I hope most of the "cruise market" will be vaccinated by mid (ish) 2021. You don't mention Australia above but we have purchased plenty of vaccines from 3 suppliers and they expect our vacs to start rolling out by March.

[Ombud]

16 minutes ago, leck57 said:

 

I think you are right in that the issue might be around until 2022 but I hope most of the "cruise market" will be vaccinated by mid (ish) 2021. You don't mention Australia above but we have purchased plenty of vaccines from 3 suppliers and they expect our vacs to start rolling out by March.

I hope so!!! I plan on going to Melbourne end of November 2021,  cruising Queensland, then spending at least a week downunder before flying back. Right now (think I read) that 7500 Aussies are still trying to get back to Australia. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

7 hours ago, CruiseMrB said:

This is why I love smaller (~2500 passenger) boats. When I go cruising on this size ship, I lose weight as I am walking around a lot and using the stairs a majority of the time. That's doable on a spread of usable decks that goes from say, 3 to 11 or 12. Once you get into a larger spread on a larger boat, it's a problem. 

 

I'm assuming that if and when I start cruising again (booked for late 2021 on a ship that doesn't exist yet), I will be even more careful about elevator usage. My goal would be to use elevators only when carrying bags.

Yep.  We have cruised a lot on the R-class with Azamara.  Usually never a wait for an elevator and then they are usually empty.  The small size, 650 passengers, makes everything close and people walk up/down the few decks.  Have no idea how the cruise lines will handle the behemoths.  Scary to even contemplate.  So many people with packed elevators.  Going to be interesting to see their solution...  We are booked on Sky Princess in March 2022.  That class has three banks of elevators and usually the aft bank is not as busy as the others.  The center bank - forgetaboutit!

[leck57]

17 minutes ago, Ombud said:

I hope so!!! I plan on going to Melbourne end of November 2021,  cruising Queensland, then spending at least a week downunder before flying back. Right now (think I read) that 7500 Aussies are still trying to get back to Australia. 

 

I hope you can get down here!

There is limited sympathy for some of the Aussies trying to get home. The Govt advised back in April to get home as soon as possible but many chose to risk it. Now many expect everything to be done for them to get them home. One person I saw complaining went to South Africa in March, well after the virus started, and is now expecting other people to fix up her situation caused by lack of judgement and common sense on her part.

They are trying to get home and many like me can't wait for things to improve so we can leave!

[dog]

Princess rep told me number of people on their excursions is dropping substantially. Ie: St Thomas to St John 4-5 hours  excursion offered on my cruise is limited to 16 people. I am not sure how many it allowed previously. Of course I expect many changes.  Good news here: vaccines start at my hospital next Wednesday. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by dog

[gmjc2]

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 12/18/2020 at 12:31 PM, dog said:

Princess rep told me number of people on their excursions is dropping substantially. Ie: St Thomas to St John 4-5 hours  excursion offered on my cruise is limited to 16 people. I am not sure how many it allowed previously. Of course I expect many changes.  Good news here: vaccines start at my hospital next Wednesday. 

We booked Princess shore excursions in Casablanca for Marrakech for a scheduled March 2022 T/A since the excursion showed 20 seats available implying 20 passengers on the full sized bus used for the tour.  Went back to the excursions several days later and it still showed 20 and I have a confirmed booking.  I'm thinking Princess might be playing games with us...  Not good.