CCL Ships sold. Not transferred within fleet

[mtnesterz]

Thanks @Ombud for keeping this thread alive. We were thinking about a California Coastal on the Sapphire this year.

Slightly off topic, but with Genting Hong Kong going away, sure will be a lot of ships coming on the market. Will Princess or the Carnival family pick up some newer ships from Dream Cruises or Crystal, or the two under construction? The Star Cruises fleet is too old for Carnival family. Possibly go to the Asian Gambling industry or sold for scrap value.

[Ombud]

CC selling an entire line??

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/27561-report-carnival-corp-eyeing-seabourn-brand-sale-to-saudi-arabia.html

 

(Prior link didn't work)

Edited May 24, 2022 by Ombud

[jimmieg]

6 minutes ago, Ombud said:

An entire line??

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/27561-report-carnival-corp-eyeing-seabourn-brand-sale-to-saudi-arabia.html

Potentially a way to get out from under (so much) debt.  And, while not knowing Seabourn's profitability, CCL brands seem more at home in the mid-market, large ship target  demographic.

[Ombud]

On 5/24/2022 at 3:04 PM, jimmieg said:

Potentially a way to get out from under (so much) debt.  And, while not knowing Seabourn's profitability, CCL brands seem more at home in the mid-market, large ship target  demographic.

And Saudis want into the industry on a high end luxury platform. Thats CC's highest end line

[mtnesterz]

Results of the Crystal Symphony and Serenity auction to be revealed within three days.

Don't see any Princess as a bidder, where bigger is better and they can't fill ships to capacity. Smaller ship, higher end lines are adding ships. Is this a cruise market trend?

Best outcome IMO, both go to Celestyal Cruises. Total fleet replacement at auction price. Company has been shopping lately.

Most likely outcome, Symphony goes for scrap as recycling prices are high. Newer ships have been scrapped lately. Serenity will wear the livery of Azamara, Ambassador or Silversea.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by mtnesterz

[Roberto256]

4 hours ago, mtnesterz said:

Results of the Crystal Symphony and Serenity auction to be revealed within three days.

 

 

We once considered a cruise on the Serenity.

 

Mrs. Roberto declined, as she knew she would become more and more annoyed by me

constantly screaming:  "Serenity, now!"

 

 

[Ombud]

This won't help the bottom line at all.

Costa Luminoso -> Carnival Luminoso 

https://cruisefever.net/cruise-ship-switching-cruise-lines-over-to-carnival/

With all the Crown Princess issues, crown needs to go!! 

[Ombud]

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/27678-another-carnival-corp-ship-sold-aidavita-to-leave-fleet.html

AIDAvita gone too. Need to trim fleet 

[mtnesterz]

2 hours ago, Ombud said:

This won't help the bottom line at all.

Costa Luminoso -> Carnival Luminoso 

https://cruisefever.net/cruise-ship-switching-cruise-lines-over-to-carnival/

With all the Crown Princess issues, crown needs to go.

Many were/are being hurt over the problems with the Crown, but the ship is a thing, not a policy setter. Things can be repaired. Apparently they just can't get to the problem from the inside.

Any info where the AIDAvita is going? Old ship by Aida standards, still competitive in the industry. Carnival should have grabbed it too.

Edited June 15, 2022 by mtnesterz

[Essiesmom]

57 minutes ago, Ombud said:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/27678-another-carnival-corp-ship-sold-aidavita-to-leave-fleet.html

AIDAvita gone too. Need to trim fleet 

AIDA it’s would be a good size to do the itineraries Pacific Princess used to do.  however, she is limited in number of balconies.  EM

[Ombud]

54 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

AIDA it’s would be a good size to do the itineraries Pacific Princess used to do.  however, she is limited in number of balconies.  EM

But transferring to another Carnival Corporation line does not bring $$s into Carnival Corp. Time to sell older ships or smaller ones that are less profitable 

[DM6045]

Biggest problem the Aida ships have is that they are built for such a unique product that they’re not suitable for most ‘traditional’ cruise lines that would consider something her size, such as no sit down main dinning rooms they’re all buffet style as such they have much smaller galleys and have a very low crew compliment for their sizes, so most lines would need to find space to increase both of those things to offer a more standard experience onboard.

My bet is either Celestyal or Margaritaville she could suit both of their very casual laid back port intensive short cruises. 

[Ombud]

23 gone from fleet. More will go. I'm still in the 'dump Crown' camp

 

Sold (not transferred within CCL):
1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ocean Builders MS Satoshi, now scrapped by them
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

14. AIDAcascara

15. AIDAvita

 

Scrapped: 
16 Costa Victoria 
17. Carnival Fantasy
18. Carnival Inspiration 
19. Carnival Fascination 
20. Carnival Imagination 

21. Carnival Ecstasy 1991

22 - Carnival Sensation 1993

23 - (I missed 1)

 

And Saudis want the 6 Seabourn ships

[Ombud]

On 6/11/2022 at 7:24 AM, mtnesterz said:

Results of the Crystal Symphony and Serenity auction

Crystal Symphony -> 25m*

Crystal Serenity -> 103m 

Crystal Endeavor -> also reportedly sold but cannot find price

 

*Gives an idea of what scrap values are

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ombud

[Ombud]

Correction: 

Sold (not transferred within CCL):
1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> scrapped by Ocean Builders
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande

15. AIDAvita -> ???

 

Scrapped: 
16 Costa Victoria 
17. Carnival Fantasy
18. Carnival Inspiration 
19. Carnival Fascination 
20. Carnival Imagination 

21. Carnival Ecstasy 1991

22 - Carnival Sensation 1993

23 - (I missed 1)

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ombud

[DM6045]

6 hours ago, Ombud said:

 

3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> scrapped by Ocean Builders

 

Couple of corrections @Ombud Costa neoRomantica has now been scrapped by Celestyal, also Pacific Dawn has not been scrapped and is now sailing for Ambassador as the Ambience her sister Pacific Jewel was scrapped after a very brief period as the Karnika. Ambassador have also brought the AidaMira (not on your list) direct from Aida to be named Ambition and start sailing next year.

[Ombud]

2 hours ago, DM6045 said:

Couple of corrections @Ombud Costa neoRomantica has now been scrapped by Celestyal, also Pacific Dawn has not been scrapped and is now sailing for Ambassador as the Ambience her sister Pacific Jewel was scrapped after a very brief period as the Karnika. Ambassador have also brought the AidaMira (not on your list) direct from Aida to be named Ambition and start sailing next year.

1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambirnce
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 

15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador TBD

16. AIDAvita -> ???

 

 

Scrapped: 
17. Costa Victoria 
17. Carnival Fantasy
19. Carnival Inspiration 
20. Carnival Fascination 
21. Carnival Imagination 

22. Carnival Ecstasy 1991

23. Carnival Sensation 1993

 

POAU Pacific Jewel -> Jaleesh Karnika was not included in the list as that was sold pre-covid (2019) and not as a result of CCL trying to rapidly lighten its debt

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ombud

[Spudd]

12 hours ago, Ombud said:

Crystal Symphony -> 25m*

Crystal Serenity -> 103m 

Crystal Endeavor -> also reportedly sold but cannot find price

 

*Gives an idea of what scrap values are

 

According to Cruise Industry News, the 2 Crystal Ocean ships are going to Heritage Group and will be re-launched, not scrapped. 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/27719-manfredi-lefebvre-said-to-be-behind-crystal-cruises-ship-purchase.html

[Ombud]

So Heritage Group is relaunching entire Crystal Cruises fleet?? Lessens need for Carnival Corp ships but good news for them!!

 

As a shareholder, I started this thread only looking at CCL downsizing.  NCL ships have also downsized their fleet / lowered their debt. But I'm not a stockholder of NCL.  Yeah, just 1 F rated stock in my portfolio 

 

CROWN PRINCESS CRUISES ONLY POSTED UNTIL APRIL 2023!! And recent redeployments do NOT come with incentives. Could they be actively looking for a buyer?

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ombud

[AF-1]

wow I am impressed that some of you on this forum have done your homework.  I would not know where to look to see if ships were sold, scrapped, transferred, etc.  Good for you guys

[Ombud]

More on lightening up debt load --

 

Originally canceled voyages got 200% refund as FCC, then 175% both Phase 1. Not applicable as a down-payment on future cruises. Gradually it went to 150%, 125%, 110%. Redeployments in Fall 2020 got up to 600 OBC in addition to 125% FCC to rebook same cruise but 12 months later. That's all history.

 

Currently canceled cruises with FCC will receive 100% FCC reimbursement as it was originally noted with an added notation that goodwill FCC (that 'extra' 10-100%) will still expire 12/31/22. So if my 3/7/23 cruise is canceled bc Asia cruises aren't happening then any goodwill FCC would have expired worthless NYE 2022. Had mine reallocate so that all goodwill FCC is on 9/2/22 cruise. FCC on March 2023 cruise is 'Cash Value FCC-voy"

[mtnesterz]

35 minutes ago, Ombud said:

...will still expire 12/31/22... any goodwill FCC would have expired worthless NYE 2022. Had mine reallocate so that all goodwill FCC is on 9/2/22 cruise. FCC on March 2023 cruise is 'Cash Value FCC-voy"

Curious what will happen when everyone use up their FCC, or expires. The real story will emerge regarding demand for cruising with Princess.

We used our FCC and last FCD in March. Made sense to buy two more FCD on the ship, but honestly, unless the cruise experience improves, we may cash them in.

Thank you for understanding the numbers and posting. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by mtnesterz

[Ombud]

18 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

Curious what will happen when everyone use up their FCC

Yep. That's when the rubber hits the road. New terms for current & future cancelations just posted June 14th so stay tuned -- I anticipate a cancelation any day now (Sydney -> Hong Kong March 2023. Same itinerary September 2023 just canceled). That FCC was book by 5/1/23. Will be interesting if it says (current month)/2023 and book by or use by or if it'll still say use by 5/1/2023. 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Ombud

[mtnesterz]

I see @Ombud edited your post, but will answer you and @AF-1.

This thread started during Covid lockdowns, boredom and ennui took over. 

I look at Wikipedia for current and past fleets. Cruiseindustrynews keeps track of sale history and scrapping and YachtWorld for ships for sale currently. 

I don't know about AIDAvita.

[Ombud]

@mtnesterzplease add if you find out AIDAvita's new name 

 

What I edited out was that Crown Princess had omitted all cruises after March 2023 but just added cruises up to September 2023. I would still be leery about booking a cruise after March as the propulsion issues have existed since early 2019. Somehow it cannot be resolved. 

 

Some of the vessels that shifted out of Princess (Golden & Star to POAU) and POAU (Jewel, Dawn & Aria leaving fleet) were slated as early as 2018 but a lot of the other departures were either sped up or new lockdown decisions

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Ombud
changed 'and' to 'or' last line