CCL Ships sold. Not transferred within fleet

[mtnesterz]

7 hours ago, Ombud said:

So we know what the 17 are ..... Is #18 Pacific Dawn? Sale not 100% complete? Guesses on #19?

Other than just age being the decider, I've read that AIDAmira is not popular with guests. Why I don't know. But if it's not making money, then a possibility. 

Gotta say, If I'd made the choice, the Costa Atlantica and Mediterranea would have replaced either the Sun and Sea Princess or Carnival Ecstacy and Sensation. They didn't ask me though. Nutz!

P&O's fleet is 2000 or newer.

Edited April 9, 2021 by mtnesterz

[oskidunker]

Keep the Grand Princess, please!

[Ombud]

@mtnesterz they held onto 2 older ships while disposing (scrapping) younger ones in the same class before. I'm wondering if it's Ecstasy (1991) or Sensation (1993)

 

Already scrapped:

Carnival Fantasy 1990
Carnival Fascination 1994
Carnival Imagination 1995
Carnival Inspiration 1996

 

[mtnesterz]

10 hours ago, oskidunker said:

Keep the Grand Princess, please!

Doubt they'd sell/scrap after investing in dry dock in 2019 and Medallion hardware.

Edited April 9, 2021 by mtnesterz

[beg3yrs]

1 hour ago, mtnesterz said:

Doubt they'd sell/scrap after investing in dry dock in 2019 and Medallion hardware.

A basic rule of finance is that "Sunk funds have no meaning" and in this case "Sunk" has nothing to do with a ship sinking, rather it is about funds that have already been spent. When you consider what your next steps are as far as a business goes, you basically only look where your are now and then forward. Looking at what you've already spent is meaningless.

 

Sure, back in 2019 their investment made sense financially but things are way different today than they were just a couple of years ago. Not saying I think they will sell the Grand, just that the logic used in your statement is flawed.

[Ombud]

Does anyone know which ships in 

17 hours ago, Ombud said:

Dates of older ships by delivery date:
1991: Carnival Ecstasy
1993: Carnival Sensation
1996: AIDAcara
1997: POAU Explorer 
1998: Carnival Elation & Paradise
1999: HAL MS Volendam, AIDAmira 
2000: HAL MS Zaandam & PO Aurora 

(Grand omitted as it has it) have been fitted with medallion networks? Whomever wasn't would be listed on the block

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/type-power/class-power-cruise-ship/sort-price:desc/

https://cruiseship.homestead.com/cruiseships.html

[mtnesterz]

2 hours ago, beg3yrs said:

Not saying I think they will sell the Grand, just that the logic used in your statement is flawed.

My expression of doubt is an emotion and is not linked to logic. Neither is having hope. I also hope they don't sell/scrap the Grand this coming year, since we are booked on the Grand in 2022. I can't give you a logical reason for my own, or anyone else's, doubts or hopes.

But the facts are this. Princess transferred the Golden and Star to P&O AU, keeping the older Grand. Princess did not publicize their reason for this. The scope of this thread is to answer where Carnival's ships went and if you have financial or logical insight on this subject, we'd like to read it.

Edited April 9, 2021 by mtnesterz

[rabin1]

I loved Pacific Princess

Hope Azamara treats her well.......

 

Kathy

[LACruiser88]

No matter how you look at it, the Grand will probably be the next ship to leave the Princess fleet.  When is the big question???

[Travelnplane]

According to the latest Carnival financial report Holland America Line is expected to return 9 ships to service. As they started 2020 with 14 ships and four have left so far one more HAL ship should be no. 19

[caribill]

12 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

No matter how you look at it, the Grand will probably be the next ship to leave the Princess fleet.  When is the big question???

 

Newer Grand class ships have left already. I suspect because they were more desirable to the recipients as they had a better cabin closet arrangement (larger) and a public mid-ship staircase.

[susancruzs]

OT - booked the Grand for Australia/NZ 2023, surprised by the closet size!   Deck plans look like there is a mid-ship staircase.   Two years away so we'll see if it is the Grand or another ship! 🙂

 

[susancruzs]

Too late to edit my post, found quite a "few" discussions about Grand mid-ship stairs! 🙂  How odd they haven't changed it for passenger access above Deck 7!  I'm a stairs person, will miss the centrally located staircase.

[Ombud]

20 hours ago, Travelnplane said:

According to the latest Carnival financial report Holland America Line is expected to return 9 ships to service. As they started 2020 with 14 ships and four have left so far one more HAL ship should be no. 19

So I'm thinking 4 lines are 1 ship over the chart: Costa, CCL, HAL, PCL (if Discovery included). Cunard, P&O, POAU, Seaborn seems to be right-sized

[beg3yrs]

1 hour ago, Ombud said:

So I'm thinking 4 lines are 1 ship over the chart: Costa, CCL, HAL, PCL (if Discovery included). Cunard, P&O, POAU, Seaborn seems to be right-sized

That's the ships they intend to return to service by November 30 of 2021. There could be a straggler that won't restart until early 2022. Possibly could be in a dry-dock late in the year.

[Ombud]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:21 PM, Ombud said:

Sorry. Can't locate thread. Also anticipate PO Iona delivery date pushed out 

 

Sold (not transferred within CCL):
1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ocean Builders MS Satoshi, now scrapped by them
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

 

Scrapped: 
14. Costa Victoria 
15. Carnival Fantasy
16. Carnival Inspiration 
17. Carnival Fascination 
18. Carnival Imagination 
19.  ??

 

Older ships by delivery date:
1991: Carnival Ecstasy
1993: Carnival Sensation
1996: AIDAcara
1997: POAU Explorer 
1998: Carnival Elation & Paradise, Grand Princess 
1999: HAL MS Volendam
2000: HAL MS Zaandam & PO Aurora 

New builds: 
Princess Enchanted delivered 2020
PO Iona May 2020
Costa Firenze February 2021
Carnival Mardi Gras April 2021
Discovery Princess 2021
AIDAcosma May 2021
HAL MS Rotterdam July 2021
Seabourn Venture December 2021
Carnival Celebration May 2022

#19 = AIDAcara sold

Update on AIDAcosma -> transferred within fleet to Carnival Cruise Lines

 

[Ombud]

#20 - Carnival Ecstasy 1991

#21 - Carnival Sensation 1993

#22 - (I missed 1)

Edited February 5, 2022 by Ombud

[Ombud]

As CCL (and all other lines) struggle to return to profitability,  sold (not transferred within CCL):
1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ocean Builders MS Satoshi, now scrapped by them
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

14. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Cruise Lines by 3/22

15. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 

 

Scrapped: 
16. Costa Victoria 
17. Carnival Fantasy
18. Carnival Inspiration 
19. Carnival Fascination 
20  Carnival Imagination 
21. Carnival Sensation w/n return to service

22. Carnival Ecstasy by 10/22

 

 

Older ships by delivery date:
1997: POAU Explorer (updated 2014)
1998: Carnival Elation & Paradise, Grand Princess (Grand updated, Carnival's weren't)
1999: HAL MS Volendam (update 2014)
2000: HAL MS Zaandam (updated 2017) & PO Aurora (updated 2009)

[mtnesterz]

#10 above, Pacific Dawn/MS Satoshi, is now the Ambience for startup Ambassador Cruise Lines. The soon to join AIDAmira, to be renamed Ambition. Word is it was a cash purchase. Where does that kind of money come from?

 

Anyone have news on the disposition of the Sensation and Ecstacy? Meaning scrapping or sale. Newer ships have been scrapped.

Edited February 7, 2022 by mtnesterz

[Dothan1952]

On 1/22/2021 at 7:51 PM, Ombud said:

Thank you @mtnesterz I was hoping you'd pop in!! Golden & Star are still in the 'family' and probably will be for a while. I'll see them on POAU 

 

Also hoping QM2 stays with Cunard. New ships are great if I'm primarily interested in listening to music onboard but the others are better for ports. 

Really doubt that QM2 would leave Cunard, too many $ spent on a ship designed for crossing the North Atlantic - no other Cunard ship has that capability and don't see any other cruise line with that kind of client base that would want to purchase her.

[Ombud]

3 hours ago, Ombud said:

As CCL (and all other lines) struggle to return to profitability,  sold (not transferred within CCL):
1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Cruises Ambience 
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

14. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Cruise Lines by 3/22

15. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 

 

Scrapped: 
16. Costa Victoria 
17. Carnival Fantasy
18. Carnival Inspiration 
19. Carnival Fascination 
20  Carnival Imagination 
21. Carnival Sensation w/n return to service

22. Carnival Ecstasy by 10/22

 

 

Older ships by delivery date:
1997: POAU Explorer (updated 2014)
1998: Carnival Elation & Paradise, Grand Princess (Grand updated, Carnival's weren't)
1999: HAL MS Volendam (update 2014)
2000: HAL MS Zaandam (updated 2017) & PO Aurora (updated 2009)

Corrected. Thanks @mtnesterz

Hope you're right @Dothan1952. They're the only line dogs can go on. Matters to some of us

Edited February 8, 2022 by Ombud

[Ombud]

CC is not making a profit yet even with huge uptick in onboard spending. It was amazing to see the party atmosphere in a store drawing for those who spent more than $100 per trip. Each $100 purchase got them 1 ticket. Over 50 in the store and dozens of tickets per person. 

[mtnesterz]

@Ombud your post #53 back on back in April 8th is coming to be. 

Those slab sided ships with few pricey balcony cabins just don't bring in the revenue. I don't see secondhand tonnage buyers for the Fantasy Class beyond the scrappers.

[Ombud]

22 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

@Ombud your post #53 back on back in April 8th is coming to be. 

Those slab sided ships with few pricey balcony cabins just don't bring in the revenue. I don't see secondhand tonnage buyers for the Fantasy Class beyond the scrappers.

Now I'm thinking next-to-go would be PO Aurora updated 2009. Well booked line so which Princess ship goes to that line? Or is it the oldest Carnival ship? 

 

Correction: Carnival Elation & Paradise updated 2018 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Ombud

[Ombud]

Sapphire Princess at Cypress?? 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6898/