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CCL Ships sold. Not transferred within fleet

Ombud

By Ombud,
in Princess Cruises

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mtnesterz

mtnesterz

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I believe the oldest ship of Carnival's fleets, a slab sided, (fewer moneymaking balcony cabins) style ship, now is the P&O Explorer from 1997 . It had dry dock in '17 and '20, so another coming up soon? This is possibly the third ship mentioned in the Cruise Industry News article. I'd imagine P&O would like a newer ship transferred from Costa.

 

 

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mtnesterz

mtnesterz

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4 hours ago, CruisinChris said:

Actually, Carnival Sunshine (Destiny) is circa 1996 and is the oldest in the fleet.  Currently sailing from Charleston.  She is in tough shape.

I stand corrected on ship age, but the Destiny/Sunshine has those moneymaking balcony cabins I mentioned that can prolong a ship's value. The last of those slab-sided ships, once the Ocean Princess, then Queen of the Oceans (2000), is now in cold layup, owned by Seajets, offered for sale in the ads, but no takers as yet. 

I just don't see those older ships as profitable in today's market. I've read drydock maintenance expense curve on ships is exponential with age. 

 

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Ombud

Ombud

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On 10/1/2022 at 3:41 PM, Ombud said:

Ages of oldest still in fleet:

1996: Carnival Sunshine

1997: POAU Explorer 
1998: Carnival Elation & Paradise, Grand Princess (medallion ship)
1999: HAL MS Volendam
2000: HAL MS Zaandam

2000: PO Aurora 

 

8 minutes ago, cruisingrob21 said:

Grand Princess is 1998 correct?

Yes. Added to above list.  But they stated 2 of the 3 to leave the fleet are Costa ships

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cruisingrob21

cruisingrob21

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1 hour ago, mtnesterz said:

I stand corrected on ship age, but the Destiny/Sunshine has those moneymaking balcony cabins I mentioned that can prolong a ship's value. The last of those slab-sided ships, once the Ocean Princess, then Queen of the Oceans (2000), is now in cold layup, owned by Seajets, offered for sale in the ads, but no takers as yet. 

I just don't see those older ships as profitable in today's market. I've read drydock maintenance expense curve on ships is exponential with age. 

 

"Money making balconies" may not be as true of a statement as it once was.  With some of the premium lines now opting for "all inclusive" upgrades, some inside cabins with the promo can cost as much or more than a balcony cabin.  Now obviously there is a value equation that happens there, but other than the gratuities and a small component of cost for the drinks (which I think we can all agree the cruise lines inflate the prices dramatically, just a like a restaurant would) the wifi, and any extra perk are overhead costs that the cruises generally have already paid.  So while in the past, one might argue that balcony cabins subsidize the cost for inside cabins when prices are low, these all inclusive packages can change that equation.

 

While the Zaandam and Volendam have a cult following being very uncrowded, I doubt they are very economical for a 'premium cruise line' that charges just slightly premium pricing over mainstream cruise lines.  I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them go - HAL certainly had no problem finding niche buyers for the Amsterdam and Rotterdam.  The grand princess could also be considered.  

 

 

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Ombud

Ombud

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# of passengers on this list:

 

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

Will it also come down to capacity?? Just wondering which, if any, of these are that 3rd ship

 

 

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Ombud

Ombud

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1 hour ago, mtnesterz said:

Interesting article on future ship builds. This leads me to believe transfers within the Carnival family will be more frequent to replace older ships for some years.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/carnival-corporation-cruise-ship-orders-on-hold/

Necessary. Perhaps POAU Explorer (1997) can be replaced with the newer Costa Magica, Serena, or Diadema .... the 3 Costa ships laid up. Just don't bring those 3 back. Sell 2 / shift 1 / dump an older ship. I don't see Carnival Sunshine or Grand Princess going as they are the largest in the 'older ships' group

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mtnesterz

mtnesterz

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A Spanish news agency is reporting the two ships Costa is letting go are sister ships Fortuna (2003) and Magica (2004). Both are 2700+ passengers with 3400 max capacity. No word on what will be done with them. The third ship from Carnival's fleets was not revealed. The Magica is in lay-up and Fortuna will complete its scheduled cruises through April '23.

Just an opinion here, but sure seems they would replace the Carnival Sunshine and  POAU Pacific Explorer.

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Ombud

Ombud

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Those 2 (Carnival Sunshine and  POAU Pacific Explorer) are the oldest so makes sense. I still would expect Costa Ships to replace them ..... POAU Pacific Explorer as POAU needs more than 2 ships & CC is starting Costa by Carnival. 

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LACruiser88 "Live from...." Rare

LACruiser88

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19 hours ago, wowzz said:

The following thread is of interest, as it contains the opinion of a Carnival employee in the UK

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2901485-carnival-corporation-axing-three-ships/page/2/

 

Thank you for posting the link.  Very interesting discussion.  We will definitely see some ships moving around over the next few years.

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mtnesterz

mtnesterz

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Cruise Industry News is reporting that the previously unnamed third ship Carnival will let go is the AIDAaura. This will happen this September. It does not say where the ship will go.

Wikipedia says the Fortuna and Magica will go to outside buyers by the end of the year.

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Ombud

Ombud

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Updating list:

Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambience
11. Sea Princess > Foresee Cruises Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara Onward
14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 
15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Ambition
16.  AIDAvita-> left June 2022. 

17. Costa Fortuna ->

18. Costa Magica ->

19. AIDAAura ->


Scrapped: 
20. Costa Victoria 
21. Carnival Fantasy
22. Carnival Inspiration 
23. Carnival Fascination 
24. Carnival Imagination 
25. Carnival Ecstasy 
26. Carnival Sensation 

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CarnivalShips480

CarnivalShips480

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Updated your list:

 

Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambience
11. Sea Princess > Foresee Cruises Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara Onward
14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 
15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Ambition
16.  AIDAvita-> left June 2022. 

17. Costa Fortuna ->

18. Costa Magica -> Seajets

19. AIDAAura ->


Scrapped: 
20. Costa Victoria 
21. Carnival Fantasy
22. Carnival Inspiration 
23. Carnival Fascination 
24. Carnival Imagination 
25. Carnival Ecstasy 
26. Carnival Sensation 

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Ombud

Ombud

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And another one bites the dust:

1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambience
11. Sea Princess > Foresee Cruises Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara Onward
14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 
15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Ambition
16.  AIDAvita-> left June 2022. 

17. Costa Fortuna ->

18. Costa Magica -> Seajets

19. AIDAAura ->

20. Seabourn Odyssey -> Mitsui O.S.K. Lines but leased back to Seaborn for cruises already booked

 


Scrapped: 
21. Costa Victoria 
22. Carnival Fantasy
23. Carnival Inspiration 
24. Carnival Fascination 
25. Carnival Imagination 
26. Carnival Ecstasy 
27. Carnival Sensation 

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Ombud

Ombud

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1 hour ago, cr8tiv1 said:

How current is this?  Done deal?  or in the works?

 

Whew...Grand Princess is NOT on your list, yet.

Announced today but leased back until August 22, 2024 so they won't be canceling any trips

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mtnesterz

mtnesterz

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Don't know how long to follow a ship's owner changes. P&O Pacific Aria, formerly HAL Ryndam, #9 on the list, went to Seajets, but now bought by Celestyal. Speculate that Celestyal will buy sister ship, formerly HAL Veendam as time goes forward.

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