Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[POA1]

14 hours ago, Donald said:

Governor DeSantis wants to start cruising from Florida as early as possible.

Florida already has one of the highest COVID numbers in America.

Carnival Cruises President Christine Duffy announced that Carnival will keep most of its ships in American Ports (many in Florida).

She also announced that Carnival will be one of the few cruise lines that will not require COVID vaccine to board their ships.

 

What could go wrong?

 

If by "one of the highest COVID numbers in America," you mean in the lower half of all US states on a cases per capita (#30) rate or lower half of all US states by deaths per capita (#28), then I suppose that your tenuous grasp of facts helps you get through the day. As a card-carrying resident of Florida (God's Waiting Room™) it's my sworn and sacred duty to point out your error.

 

You have to remember that Carnival caters to the family trade and there is no vaccine currently available for children. You can't require people to get a vaccine that doesn't exist. The CHR (case hospitalization rate) for people under 18 is less than 1/2 of 1%.  The CFR (case fatality rate) for the under 18 crowd is less than 1/100th of a percent.

 

The two tables below are from the CDC's website at:  https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days

 

 

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[KirkNC]

39 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

My thought as well. I wonder if Florida has done the arrangements with cruise lines required by the CDC to resume sailing. Like plans for receiving sick patients from a ship. Or is it their contention that, by "following the science" they don't have to do those, and the CDC is overreaching. That would be an interesting argument. 

Your not expecting a politician to do something other then yak and gaslight everyone 😳.

[BobbiSox]

I for one don't want to take any shortcuts, or risk my life for a pleasure cruise while we are living in a world that is still raging with Covid. I trust science. It has served me well in the past. When the world is free of Covid, I will travel again. I hope it happens in my lifetime. If not, I'll be happy knowing that I have enjoyed three decades of seeing a world that most people have only dreamed about. 

[Mary229]

I trust the science too, that is why I made a concerted effort to become fully vaccinated.  Get vaccinated, free the world.

[KirkNC]

Just now, BobbiSox said:

I for one don't want to take any shortcuts, or risk my life for a pleasure cruise while we are living in a world that is still raging with Covid. I trust science. It has served me well in the past. When the world is free of Covid, I will travel again. I hope it happens in my lifetime. If not, I'll be happy knowing that I have enjoyed three decades of seeing a world that most people have only dreamed about. 

I don’t need it to be free of Covid, I don’t think that will happen, but I do need the risk to be very minimal.  That risk is not just catching the virus, it’s also answering the question of what happens when these unvaccinated youths contract CV on a cruise.  Does the ship sail on or head to the nearest port.  I want the risk of a canceled or interrupted cruise to be minuscule.

[Gracie115]

36 minutes ago, BobbiSox said:

I for one don't want to take any shortcuts, or risk my life for a pleasure cruise while we are living in a world that is still raging with Covid. I trust science. It has served me well in the past. When the world is free of Covid, I will travel again. I hope it happens in my lifetime. If not, I'll be happy knowing that I have enjoyed three decades of seeing a world that most people have only dreamed about. 

 

 

The world will NEVER be free of COVID.  

[BobbiSox]

33 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

 

The world will NEVER be free of COVID.  

I'm sorry. I didn't mean that to be literal. I was thinking of situations more like black plague, smallpox, and polio, that have been controlled in most parts of the world.

[iancal]

I believe that this is becoming a cause celebre for some people and for some politicians.

 

I think the vast majority of cruisers and potential cruisers will not even consider boarding a cruise ship in Florida until they feel it is safe for them and their family members.  That timeframe will differ between people.   Who really thinks that bringing the cruise dates forward will impact people's sense of safety?

 

Sure, a minority of people are going on about how they should be allowed to board a cruise ship next week.  But really, how many would actually do it.  How many of their spouses/partners would go along with such a decision let alone bring grandma or the kids along on an Easter cruise or a summer cruise??

 

I believe that it is a great deal of nothing by people who want to make a noise and more importantly been seen to make a noise for personal gain or simply to somehow stroke their egos.

Edited March 28, 2021 by iancal

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, iancal said:

How many of their spouses/partners would go along with such a decision let alone bring grandma or the kids along.

I am vaccinated so yes I would board if they follow the EU model.  I would board in the Caribbean also if that interested me.  The US has no model and that is a problem.  

[Horizon chaser 1957]

4 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

 

Wrong. The Federal Register for November 3, 2020 (published November 4, 2020) contains the initial Technical Instructions for the condition of resumption of sailing. The Federal Register has also been updated on December 23, 2020 and December 31, 2020. Do we know if they have worked on this? Just asking as i am anxious to cruise this year. The ball appears to be in the cruise companies`s court.

 

Regarding the ports having a plan, that was addressed in the Federal Register on April  21, 2020 and clarified April 28, 2020. Given Florida`s track record this past year, have they complied? Just asking.

Initial is the key word. Then it all went dead in the water, if you’ll excuse the pun. There’s a number of threads about this on the forum. And if Florida has made any plans, or thought about implementing them, no one has mentioned it.

There is a clause in the CDC orders that says the whole thing expires if the state of medical emergency is stood down before it expires anyway on November 1, 2021. I’m starting to think everyone involved is waiting for that to happen. Unfortunately, like the Ever Given blocking the Suez, the time it would take for that to happen may have been grossly underestimated. I’m also eager to cruise again, but have rebooked everything until later in 2022.

[Gracie115]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I am vaccinated so yes I would board if they follow the EU model.  I would board in the Caribbean also if that interested me.  The US has no model and that is a problem.  

 

And so would we....

[Sir PMP]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I am vaccinated so yes I would board if they follow the EU model.  I would board in the Caribbean also if that interested me.  The US has no model and that is a problem.  

Nothing is working in Europe..

[Heartgrove]

This is the document that cruises that are sailing in Europe are following (there may be additional or revised information as well) in order to sail. I would think that the companies that operate cruises from US ports are aware of this guidance. Following this as a start would help here in the US and would show a good faith effort - instead of being contrary and posing with politicians. It almost seems as if the cruise companies want the CDC requirements presented as a completed document on a platter before they act. There must be more beneath the surface that we don't see.

 

European Union's Interim Guidance for Preparedness and Response to Cases of  Covid-19 at Points of Entry in the European Union (EU)/EEA Member States (MS)

 

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

[Heartgrove]

35 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Nothing is working in Europe..

 

Hmmm? Looks like MSC is. Actually this would be pleasant with the reduced number of passengers.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTyG9Qt9BoQ

 

[Mary229]

46 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Nothing is working in Europe..

There are cruises in Europe.  There was a German sailing recently that had a family case. The individuals were isolated until the next port where they were transferred to a medical unit prearranged by the cruise line.  I will see if I can find that article again.  I posted it here a few weeks ago.

[Gracie115]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

There are cruises in Europe.  There was a German sailing recently that had a family case. The individuals were isolated until the next port where they were transferred to a medical unit prearranged by the cruise line.  I will see if I can find that article again.  I posted it here a few weeks ago.

 

Yes, TUI & MSC & Costa all have cruises going (Costa just beginning). TUI & MSC have had cruises for about 6 months now.  Yes, there have been some cases but they seem to have the means to take care of them.  

[Mary229]

Just now, Gracie115 said:

 

Yes, TUI & MSC & Costa all have cruises going (Costa just beginning). TUI & MSC have had cruises for about 6 months now.  Yes, there have been some cases but they seem to have the means to take care of them.  

Thank you.  I will have to find that article again.  The EU gave the guidelines last year and they include debarking covid people at pre-arranged medical clinics.  Also Singapore, China and Israel (soon).  I think even Japan has attempted to start again.  As I recall Australia has proposed Australia only cruises like the UK

[AncientWanderer]

43 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

This is the document that cruises that are sailing in Europe are following (there may be additional or revised information as well) in order to sail. I would think that the companies that operate cruises from US ports are aware of this guidance. Following this as a start would help here in the US and would show a good faith effort - instead of being contrary and posing with politicians. It almost seems as if the cruise companies want the CDC requirements presented as a completed document on a platter before they act. There must be more beneath the surface that we don't see.

 

European Union's Interim Guidance for Preparedness and Response to Cases of  Covid-19 at Points of Entry in the European Union (EU)/EEA Member States (MS)

 

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

 

There are elements within that document that should no doubt be in place as a "best practice," but the whole enchilada offered would not entice me to sail.  Plus, Europe is out of control with new lock-downs and very poor inoculation program, so not the gold standard I'm looking for.

I wish, though....

[Heartgrove]

3 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

There are elements within that document that should no doubt be in place as a "best practice," but the whole enchilada offered would not entice me to sail.  Plus, Europe is out of control with new lock-downs and very poor inoculation program, so not the gold standard I'm looking for.

I wish, though....

 

I agree that it isn't perfect. My first cruise when we re-started cruising was on the Veendam which had hand-rinsing machines at the Lido. I was surprised that the Vista and Signature classes did not have something similar. So it took two previous classes of HAL ships without until I was able to use a hand washing station on the Nieuw Statendam in 2019! 

 

Currently booked for the European Capitals and Transatlantic in October, we have already shortened our trip to just a few days prior to boarding the new Rotterdam in Amsterdam. Normally we travel around Europe a bit but not this time. Final payment and cancellation is in July so that is the make/break date for us this year.

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, BobbiSox said:

I for one don't want to take any shortcuts, or risk my life for a pleasure cruise while we are living in a world that is still raging with Covid. I trust science. It has served me well in the past. When the world is free of Covid, I will travel again. I hope it happens in my lifetime. If not, I'll be happy knowing that I have enjoyed three decades of seeing a world that most people have only dreamed about. 

 

Your post mirrors my thinking.  Except.  Free of Covid?  No, I don't think that is going to happen.  

 

8 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I trust the science too, that is why I made a concerted effort to become fully vaccinated.  Get vaccinated, free the world.

 

My most serious concern tonight is the data that keep reading about the percentage of Americans who are or expect to refuse accepting the vaccine.  Are these people dooming me to having to wear a mask and being socially distance from others for the rest of whatever life span I have?  As a senior citizen, this is a major concern of mine.  

 

8 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

 

The world will NEVER be free of COVID.  

 

Agree.  Covid is going to be like other diseases where periodic vaccinations are going to be needed to keep it under control.  

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

My most serious concern tonight is the data that keep reading about the percentage of Americans who are or expect to refuse accepting the vaccine.

I think that is being overblown.  It is only now that vaccines are available to all over the age of 16 and still it is not truly easy to get a vaccine.  Once you can walk-in to your neighborhood pharmacy while shopping it will accelerate.  Social and familial pressure will mount.   The government could assist if they would simply promote the vaccine 100%.  Tell people if we get vaccinated we can end lockdowns.  Instead they continue to put out a weird message that it may be years before we can relax.  Fauci is constantly saying this.  Instead tell people once vaccinated you can travel freely, go to work, go to school and so on.  The vaccines are 95% effective and that should be respected.  

[rkacruiser]

23 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think that is being overblown.  It is only now that vaccines are available to all over the age of 16 and still it is not truly easy to get a vaccine.  Once you can walk-in to your neighborhood pharmacy while shopping it will accelerate.  Social and familial pressure will mount.   The government could assist if they would simply promote the vaccine 100%.  Tell people if we get vaccinated we can end lockdowns.  Instead they continue to put out a weird message that it may be years before we can relax.  Fauci is constantly saying this.  Instead tell people once vaccinated you can travel freely, go to work, go to school and so on.  The vaccines are 95% effective and that should be respected.  

 

I understand what you are saying.  But....

 

I have a dentist who believes by taking the vaccine his DNA will be changed.

 

I have a friend who lives in my condo building who has "learned" that the vaccines will cause a fetus to be aborted.  As a strongly pro-life person, she is unlikely to get the vaccine.  

 

The ignorance--even among educated people, which includes my dentist--astounds me.  I guess I better need to get used to having to wear a mask for the rest of whatever years I have left in my life. 

[rkacruiser]

6 minutes ago, Capt Guy said:

Prior to Covid both redfield and fauci are on record stating that cruise ships should not be allowed because they spread infections, that they should not be allowed.

 

Please site such sources for such a statement.  Specifically, relating to pre-Covid.  

[tallyho8]

Miami and Fort Lauderdale need to follow the lead of the Conch Republic in the Florida Keys and secede from the Union as they did about 40 years ago. Maybe this would bring enough attention to the situation these areas are facing with cruising being shut down.

 

Even if they are defeated or surrender, then they can apply for billions of dollars in foreign aid to help them with their dilemma. 

[nocl]

6 minutes ago, tallyho8 said:

Miami and Fort Lauderdale need to follow the lead of the Conch Republic in the Florida Keys and secede from the Union as they did about 40 years ago. Maybe this would bring enough attention to the situation these areas are facing with cruising being shut down.

 

Even if they are defeated or surrender, then they can apply for billions of dollars in foreign aid to help them with their dilemma. 

The impact on on Florida from cruising is less than 1 percent of Florida's economy. While 7 billion might be a large number it is far less than the 90 billion spent in the state by tourists over all.  And pretty small compared to the size of Florida's economy at  883 billion.  

 

They are getting billions already from the 1.9 trillion that was just signed into law.