Am I being too optimistic.....

[JRG]

15 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Some irony in that we are vaccinating crews for ships at taxpayer expense that will likely not serve the US market for the foreseeable future.  As Don King loves to say, "Only in America!"

 

What's up with this sourpus angle?

 

Please justify your position so we know how you feel. 

 

If you have a compelling point then please share it with us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

You, as a UK taxpayer, is  paying for your vaccinations. Your kids and your kids', kids will also likely be paying for your vaccinations through their taxes too. 

 

And it is a rather good use of taxpayers' money. There are a whole lot that are much worse.

[SelectSys]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Would you really rather see vaccines expire than to go into arms of these crew members?

Maybe we should be sending them to areas of critical need?  India is one location that comes to mind.  Closer to home, Mexico and Central America have lots of need.  Many on this site view cruising as something that should come last with respect to vaccine distribution.

 

3 hours ago, ovccruiser said:

They are not coming from the UK or the EU, we are unable to fly anywhere without a very good reason

It wouldn't surprise me that some of the crew on these cruise ships being vaccinated are from the UK and EU.  Also note that people are still traveling from the UK and the EU via Mexico for discretionary purposes.  They simply wait 14 days in Mexico prior to crossing into the US and they are good to go.  Here is a aviation travel blogger from the UK who did exactly that and is making videos of his flights in the US:

 

4 hours ago, ovccruiser said:

slight exaggeration "coming from all over the world"

I live on the border and we are seeing informal entry of people from all parts of the world.  It might set an all time record!  These people are from poor rather than rich countries like the EU, UK and Australia.  Remember thatI Mexico never closed its borders to travel.

 

Here is a video from a popular Spanish speaking travel blogger from Mexico who even has a video on the subject of coming to the US for vaccines. Many more exist...

 

3 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

But if I were a U.S. taxpayer, would I be worrying about this? No because the actual dollars we a talking about here are minuscule vs the total vaccine costs for a country of 330 million people.

The real question, is this the best use of "excess vaccinations."  Of course US governments typically puts corporate interests first.

 

3 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

BTW, as a Canadian taxpayer I would like to thank all you U.S. taxpayers for footing the bill for the cruise lines' crew if that is, in fact, what is happening.

No worries even though we aren't really consulted on these types of things.  I know many Canadians were forced to stay at home this winter and we are looking forward to seeing you all spend lots of money in the US next winter - assuming things go well of course!

 

3 hours ago, frantic36 said:

Select Sys is all about exaggeration to fit his narrative no matter how many certain selected scientific articles he likes to insert.

Just curious, what do you think my narrative is?  Let us all know and I will let you know how close you are.

 

3 hours ago, frantic36 said:

Some people just like to think the USA is the "be all and end all". Don't get me wrong I love lots of things I like in the USA just like I enjoy things in many places of the world...I just don't put these places on a pedestal.

Where is this coming from?  

 

BTW - While I haven't been in Australia for a few years, I like it there as well.  The climate in parts is quite similar to CA with fewer people and a bit more sanity from some policy perspectives.

 

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It does help to advise people that anything “free” from their government does have to be paid for by someone- maybe not the day it is given, but surely some time.

How closely people listen depends if it is you or someone else that is ultimately paying!   Our governor just announced more "free" COVID money to a large swath of the electorate that don't pay much in the way of direct taxes.  I wonder if this to help his chances survive a recall election?

 

3 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 Oh and I can happily report I have had my first vaccine shot without leaving my home country

 Congratulations!  Makes sense as Australia purchased more COVID vaccine per capita than the US!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/canada-and-uk-among-countries-with-most-vaccine-doses-ordered-per-person

 

[CruiserBruce]

18 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Maybe we should be sending them to areas of critical need?  India is one location that comes to mind.  Closer to home, Mexico and Central America have lots of need.  Many on this site view cruising as something that should come last with respect to vaccine distribution.

 

It wouldn't surprise me that some of the crew on these cruise ships being vaccinated are from the UK and EU.  Also note that people are still traveling from the UK and the EU via Mexico for discretionary purposes.  They simply wait 14 days in Mexico prior to crossing into the US and they are good to go.  Here is a aviation travel blogger from the UK who did exactly that and is making videos of his flights in the US:

 

I live on the border and we are seeing informal entry of people from all parts of the world.  It might set an all time record!  These people are from poor rather than rich countries like the EU, UK and Australia.  Remember thatI Mexico never closed its borders to travel.

 

Here is a video from a popular Spanish speaking travel blogger from Mexico who even has a video on the subject of coming to the US for vaccines. Many more exist...

 

 

 

 Congratulations!  Makes sense as Australia purchased more COVID vaccine per capita than the US!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/canada-and-uk-among-countries-with-most-vaccine-doses-ordered-per-person

 

That story is far outdated. US has ordered at least 300 million more doses since that article. 

[SelectSys]

13 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

That story is far outdated. US has ordered at least 300 million more doses since that article. 

I assume you are referring to the Guardian article.  The main point is that all rich countries ordered lots of vaccines.  

 

That order would put the US with on par with other 1st world countries/groups putting the US at 4 doses per person.  Remember on a per capita basis those 300 million reflect .85 doses per capita. - 3.7 + .85 = 4.55 total.

 

I would be curious if these doses somehow relate to the discussion of booster shots that have been discussed at least for the mRNA vaccines?  

Edited May 11, 2021 by SelectSys

[CruiserBruce]

16 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

I assume you are referring to the Guardian article.  The main point is that all rich countries ordered lots of vaccines.  

 

That order would put the US with on par with other 1st world countries/groups putting the US at 4 doses per person.  Remember on a per capita basis those 300 million reflect .85 doses per capita. - 3.7 + .85 = 4.55 total.

 

I would be curious if these doses somehow relate to the discussion of booster shots that have been discussed at least for the mRNA vaccines?  

The US has 800 million doses on order. Biden specifically said some of the extra doses were planned for when children from 6 months to 18 years could be vaccinated. Only 200 million doses are for J&J, so I think your calculation of 4 doses per person seems high.  I would think it to be more around high two doses per person, based on a population of about 330 million. Given J&J has lagged severely behind in production and due to the "pause", it would seem far more will be getting the two shot vaccines, rather than J&J.

[SelectSys]

41 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

The US has 800 million doses on order. Biden specifically said some of the extra doses were planned for when children from 6 months to 18 years could be vaccinated

Interesting.  I thought the US had more and I guess we still lag other 1st world nations in purchases per capita.  I guess the good news is that our pharma production base hasn't been sent off shore - at least yet - which has made delivery here more accessible than in other places.  

 

Amazing to see how plentiful appointments are right now - at least in San Diego.  It seems like availability almost changed overnight in terms of how easy it is to get an appointment.  Even our local supermarket now has shots.

[CruiserBruce]

40 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Interesting.  I thought the US had more and I guess we still lag other 1st world nations in purchases per capita.  I guess the good news is that our pharma production base hasn't been sent off shore - at least yet - which has made delivery here more accessible than in other places.  

 

Amazing to see how plentiful appointments are right now - at least in San Diego.  It seems like availability almost changed overnight in terms of how easy it is to get an appointment.  Even our local supermarket now has shots.

What you maybe confusing is that the US "bet all the horses in the race", putting in orders for, IIRC, for at least 100 million doses (300 million from AZ), from each of 7 or 8 producers, in case one or more was unable to bring a vaccine to market. One (Merck) dropped out, as it's vaccine wasn't very effective, and only the 3 we know of...Pfizer, Moderna and J&J have been approved. AZ seems shaky, even tho approved in over 50 countries, and we had that huge order from them. One (Novomax, I think) just announced they would be seeking FDA approval next month. One other hasn't been heard from for quite awhile.

 

So, yes, if you count all those commitments, we have a lot in the pipeline. But the Biden Administration decided we needed to get more from the approved 3, to get as many people vaccinated as fast as possible to put an end to the pandemic, so their orders were upped. I am not sure any other country invested like we did (perhaps China and Russia), nor ordered such a wide sourced  supply to assure vaccination. I think I heard Canada only ordered from 3 companies, and I think the UK is the same. Had any of their vendors failed...

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

Amazing to see how plentiful appointments are right now - at least in San Diego.  It seems like availability almost changed overnight in terms of how easy it is to get an appointment.  Even our local supermarket now has shots.

This is how plentiful appointments are now---the approval for 12-15 year olds just happened, and our local school district is vaccinating them as I write this. Appointments for the students are from 4-7 today.

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

What you maybe confusing is that the US "bet all the horses in the race", putting in orders for, IIRC, for at least 100 million doses (300 million from AZ), from each of 7 or 8 producers, in case one or more was unable to bring a vaccine to market.

Makes sense.  Given the unknowns, this was a good move to diversify the risk rather than picking a single winner.  

 

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Biden Administration decided we needed to get more from the approved 3, to get as many people vaccinated as fast as possible to put an end to the pandemic, so their orders were upped

That also makes sense.  No sense chasing solutions when you have 3 already going.

 

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Pfizer, Moderna and J&J have been approved.

Interestingly, my daughter works for a firm that is involved in the contract manufacture of all 3 US options.  

 

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

I am not sure any other country invested like we did (perhaps China and Russia), nor ordered such a wide sourced  supply to assure vaccination

I think the Chinese and Russian efforts only sponsored in country activities.  The US looked beyond it's borders.

 

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

just happened, and our local school district is vaccinating them as I write this

Our local schools have been doing special outreach and vaccinations for undocumented parents on campus as the schools are more trusted by this community than other governmental sites.  Easy expansion of the program for students.  I am sure it will happen soon here as well.

[lissie]

18 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

Because vaccines are currently 100% controlled by governments in the US.  There is no private market.  

 

The cruise lines have tried to buy and haven't been all that successful for near term purchase.  That said, Israel is contemplating a sale/transfer to RCCL.  Probably not a good look.

 

So they pay the government for the tests they use for non-residents??? Its the US government I'm sure they can accept cash or cheque!  

[broberts]

3 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

What you maybe confusing is that the US "bet all the horses in the race", putting in orders for, IIRC, for at least 100 million doses (300 million from AZ), from each of 7 or 8 producers, in case one or more was unable to bring a vaccine to market. One (Merck) dropped out, as it's vaccine wasn't very effective, and only the 3 we know of...Pfizer, Moderna and J&J have been approved. AZ seems shaky, even tho approved in over 50 countries, and we had that huge order from them. One (Novomax, I think) just announced they would be seeking FDA approval next month. One other hasn't been heard from for quite awhile.

 

So, yes, if you count all those commitments, we have a lot in the pipeline. But the Biden Administration decided we needed to get more from the approved 3, to get as many people vaccinated as fast as possible to put an end to the pandemic, so their orders were upped. I am not sure any other country invested like we did (perhaps China and Russia), nor ordered such a wide sourced  supply to assure vaccination. I think I heard Canada only ordered from 3 companies, and I think the UK is the same. Had any of their vendors failed...

 

Like the US, Canada reached atgreements with several companies. At last count 8, of which only four have been approved for use at this time. Although there is some question as to continued use of J&J and Astrazeneca. With the exception of Astrazeneca and Moderna enough vaccine was ordered from each  company to vaccinate the entire population.

 

[rkacruiser]

As the OP of this thread, I appreciate all of those who have made comments.  Good conversations, I think.  Thread drift?  Yes, I think so.  Is that improper?  No.  Given what we all know or don't know at this time, such conversations allow us to share what we know, what we think, what we expect, and what we hope.  

 

I return to the premise of my original post.  There has been unusual cruise ship activity in the Port of Miami and Port Everglades in recent days, in my opinion.  I wonder if such is taking place on the ports on the West Coast.  

 

Oh, to be the "fly on the wall" in the Executive Suites of CCL, RCI, and NCL! 

 

 

[SelectSys]

5 hours ago, lissie said:

So they pay the government for the tests they use for non-residents???

Tests aren't vaccines.  These are widely available from many sources outside of government channels.

 

5 hours ago, lissie said:

Its the US government I'm sure they can accept cash or cheque!  

Maybe New Zealand is different than the US.  It can actually be difficult for the government in the US to sell things readily outside of the normal realm of its normal processes.  It can be done, but a business level contract would take time and would be disclosed for something like vaccines.  I tried to search for news or disclosures of vaccines being sold by the US Government but didn't see anything.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On 5/10/2021 at 5:28 PM, CruiserBruce said:

You might be seeing vaccination going on. Perhaps crew coming on board.

I think you are correct ..