DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements

[ProgRockCruiser]

4 minutes ago, kleibo said:

 

Source please.

There are a bunch of related articles on HHS.gov.  Try this one, for example:

 

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/notification-enforcement-discretion-hipaa.pdf

 

As a matter of enforcement discretion, effective immediately, the HHS Office for Civil Rights (OCR) will exercise its enforcement discretion and will not impose potential penalties for violations of certain provisions of the HIPAA Privacy Rule against covered health care providers or their business associates for uses and disclosures of protected health information by business associates for public health and health oversight activities during the COVID-19 nationwide public health emergency.

 

DATES: The Notification of Enforcement Discretion will remain in effect until the Secretary of HHS declares that the public health emergency no longer exists, or upon the expiration date of the declared public health emergency, whichever occurs first.

 

If you read it further, you can see that there are portions of HIPAA protection that still apply.  It doesn't make HIPAA disappear just because of the declaration of the PHE.

 

This is an older one from Feb 2020, from the early days.

 

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/february-2020-hipaa-and-novel-coronavirus.pdf

 

But note this following (bold my emphasis), which backs up @jerseygirl3 said:

 

HIPAA Applies Only to Covered Entities and Business Associates

 

The HIPAA Privacy Rule applies to disclosures made by employees, volunteers, and other members of a covered entity’s or business associate’s workforce. Covered entities are health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct one or more covered health care transactions electronically, such as transmitting health care claims to a health plan. Business associates generally are persons or entities (other than members of the workforce of a covered entity) that perform functions or activities on behalf of, or provide certain services to, a covered entity that involve creating, receiving, maintaining, or transmitting protected health information. Business associates also include subcontractors that create, receive, maintain, or transmit protected health information on behalf of another business associate. The Privacy Rule does not apply to disclosures made by entities or other persons who are not covered entities or business associates (although such persons or entities are free to follow the standards on a voluntary basis if desired). There may be other state or federal rules that apply.

 

HIPAA simply doesn't apply to a business or individual asking you for your health info.  They can ask.  You can refuse to provide.  The business or individual can refuse to provide services or goods.

[TNcruising02]

A person can sign a release giving permission for the release of their own health information to whomever they wish.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Saint Greg said:

 

I don't think freedom of speech includes asking someone what is in their medical records.

Yes, it does.  Freedom of speech, means I can ask you anything.  Whether you reply or not is your freedom.  But, as most folks don't understand, the "freedom of speech" right mentioned in the Constitution is a protection of your speech from limitation by a government, not an individual or business.

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

You have the freedom not to answer. They have the freedom to say we will process your refund.

Bingo, we have a winner.

43 minutes ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

In Florida, they do not have the right, currently to ask. This is the very same manner that airline employees can't ask you why you need pre boarding or what medical condition warrant you to ask for pre boarding. This is across every state. You ask for airline pre boarding, you get it, no questions asked. It is not allowed. 

This has not been challenged in court to determine whether it is constitutional or not, on two counts.  First, whether a state can apply a law like this to international commerce, which the Constitution grants to the federal government, and second, whether this is even legal for businesses within Florida.  It is my understanding that unless the state creates a new "protected class" of unvaccinated people, then the state cannot forbid a business from limiting their employees or customers based on any reason at all.

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, it does.  Freedom of speech, means I can ask you anything.  Whether you reply or not is your freedom.  But, as most folks don't understand, the "freedom of speech" right mentioned in the Constitution is a protection of your speech from limitation by a government, not an individual or business.

Bingo, we have a winner.

This has not been challenged in court to determine whether it is constitutional or not, on two counts.  First, whether a state can apply a law like this to international commerce, which the Constitution grants to the federal government, and second, whether this is even legal for businesses within Florida.  It is my understanding that unless the state creates a new "protected class" of unvaccinated people, then the state cannot forbid a business from limiting their employees or customers based on any reason at all.

You are also correct, on the second point. 
 

I did double check to make sure I was correct and to be clear, the airlines can't you what your specific medical issue is. That is protected by HIPPA( Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) They can ask you the reason why you need pre boarding and thats it. 
 

 

[jfunk138]

1 hour ago, kdr69 said:

The virus has no other place to spread to!  Its a foregone conclusion that cases would increase in the last large subset of unvaccinated individuals. It shouldnt come as a surprise to anyone.

It comes as a surprise to Harvard School of Public Health Professor Joseph Allen, who actually studied the data and reached the opposite conclusion. 
 

 

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

You are also correct, on the second point. 
 

I did double check to make sure I was correct and to be clear, the airlines can't you what your specific medical issue is. That is protected by HIPPA( Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) They can ask you the reason why you need pre boarding and thats it. 
 

 

HIPAA.  But, no, the reason they can't ask about a medical condition is under the Civil Aviation Act, and/or the ADA.  That covers discrimination about why you need pre-boarding.  HIPAA only covers dissemination of your medical records, by a medical provider, not a voluntary discussion between a business and customer.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, jerseygirl3 said:

HIPPA does not apply here. Schools always require proof of vaccination.  HIPPA provides protection from a healthcare provider giving out your medical info without your permission. 

Correct, HIPAA protects you from having a third party make an unauthorized release of your medical records. It does not stop you from revealing anything you want.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

HIPPA does not apply because Covid -19 was certified a global pandemic. Once this designation is lifted then its a different story. 

HIPAA will still protect you from the unauthorized release of your medical records after the pandemic just as it did before the pandemic. And it will still allow you to authorize the release or give the information yourself, just as it did pre-pandemic.

[BlerkOne]

NCL is restarting with fully vaccinated passengers and crew. Including Miami if CDC approves.

 

https://www.nclhltdinvestor.com/index.php/news-releases/news-release-details/norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-ltd-announces-additional-us

 

 

 

 

[Lee Cruiser]

22 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

It comes as a surprise to Harvard School of Public Health Professor Joseph Allen, who actually studied the data and reached the opposite conclusion. 
 

 

He probably has a good idea as to why the formulated the report the way they did. Maybe now that the vaccine is available to younger people, they are trying to coerce parents into vaccinating their children, even if it is by using misleading data?

[jfunk138]

2 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

He probably has a good idea as to why the formulated the report the way they did. Maybe now that the vaccine is available to younger people, they are trying to coerce parents into vaccinating their children, even if it is by using misleading data?

Oh yes, he mentions in the later tweet.

No better way to convince the hesitant than with misleading data, right?  Best way to gain someone's trust is to lie to them, no?

[BlerkOne]

Statistics aren't facts. They are just numbers and misinterpreted all the time. Sometimes by mistake and sometimes intentionally. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

The way john spoke this morning it sounds like Carnival and Desantis are extremely close on a compromise. 

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

49 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

HIPAA.  But, no, the reason they can't ask about a medical condition is under the Civil Aviation Act, and/or the ADA.  That covers discrimination about why you need pre-boarding.  HIPAA only covers dissemination of your medical records, by a medical provider, not a voluntary discussion between a business and customer.

Thanks, I stand corrected. 

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

41 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

HIPAA will still protect you from the unauthorized release of your medical records after the pandemic just as it did before the pandemic. And it will still allow you to authorize the release or give the information yourself, just as it did pre-pandemic.

I interpreted the HHS website differently. If that is wrong, I will correct myself. Thx.

[songbird1329]

1 hour ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

HIPPA does not apply because Covid -19 was certified a global pandemic. Once this designation is lifted then its a different story. 

HIPPA does not apply.  Period.

 

HIPPA applies only to medical providers and whether they are permitted to release your medical data to third parties.  IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THIRD PARTIES WHO WANT YOUR MEDICAL  INFORMATION.

 

Throughout your life you have been asked to provide medical information to third parties, such as when you had to provide proof of vaccination against polio, measles, mumps, etc. when you enrolled in public school and many universities.  
 

And since we are on the subject ... the law supports mandatory vaccinations.  There’s a Supreme Court case from 1905 regarding mandatory smallpox vaccinations, a case which has been relied on in the current pandemic to support mask mandates, etc.  in that case the Court supported mandatory vaccination.

 

The EEOC has routinely supported employers who mandated that their employees be vaccinated against influenza over the employee’s objection (though that usually means that the unvaccinated employee must mask up while at work).

 

what makes COVID different is that the vaccines haven’t been fully approved by the FDA, they’ve gotten only emergency approval...but that distinction will soon be irrelevant.

[ChutChut]

12 minutes ago, songbird1329 said:

HIPPA does not apply.  Period.

 

HIPPA applies only to medical providers and whether they are permitted to release your medical data to third parties.  IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THIRD PARTIES WHO WANT YOUR MEDICAL  INFORMATION.

 

Throughout your life you have been asked to provide medical information to third parties, such as when you had to provide proof of vaccination against polio, measles, mumps, etc. when you enrolled in public school and many universities.  
 

And since we are on the subject ... the law supports mandatory vaccinations.  There’s a Supreme Court case from 1905 regarding mandatory smallpox vaccinations, a case which has been relied on in the current pandemic to support mask mandates, etc.  in that case the Court supported mandatory vaccination.

 

The EEOC has routinely supported employers who mandated that their employees be vaccinated against influenza over the employee’s objection (though that usually means that the unvaccinated employee must mask up while at work).

 

what makes COVID different is that the vaccines haven’t been fully approved by the FDA, they’ve gotten only emergency approval...but that distinction will soon be irrelevant.

Correct - and the SCOTUS case deals exclusively with a STATE's authority to mandate vaccination - not the feds.

[jfunk138]

1 hour ago, ChutChut said:

Correct - and the SCOTUS case deals exclusively with a STATE's authority to mandate vaccination - not the feds.

The other thing that is interesting about the comparison to the 1905 Smallpox case was that for a one-time $5 fee you could buy your way out of the requirement.  In today's dollars that's $150.  Effectively a one-time speeding ticket.

Yes, I would pay $150 to make all the mandatory vax people go away.

Edited June 7, 2021 by jfunk138

[dandeck]

Cruise ships are not the place for unvaccinated people.  For everyone's sake.  Anyone who has ever been on one realizes why.  No one is forced to cruise.  Don't want the vaccine?  No problem.  The beach has lots of space for distancing and would be the better choice for all of us.  Again, no one is forced to get on a ship or be vaccinated.  Your decision.  

[basil's mom]

7 minutes ago, dandeck said:

Cruise ships are not the place for unvaccinated people.  For everyone's sake.  Anyone who has ever been on one realizes why.  No one is forced to cruise.  Don't want the vaccine?  No problem.  The beach has lots of space for distancing and would be the better choice for all of us.  Again, no one is forced to get on a ship or be vaccinated.  Your decision.  

You are absolutely right, no one is forced to cruise. If it bothers you that people might be on the cruise that are unvaccinated the solution is very simple. Don’t go on that cruise.

 

it was my understanding that vaccination was supposed to keep you from getting the COVID-19 virus. If you were vaccinated why are you worried about the people who are not vaccinated?

 

I have several health problems and was told not to get vaccinated by my doctor. Why should I be kept from an activity I enjoy, along with other people who choose not to be vaccinated, when those who believe in vaccinations are already protected?

[songbird1329]

Let me quote the case, Jacobson v. Massachusetts 197 US 11(1905)

 

 

“The police power of a State embraces such reasonable regulations relating to matters completely within its territory, and not affecting the people of other States, established directly by legislative enactment, as will protect the public health and safety.

While a local regulation, even if based on the acknowledged police power of a State, must always yield in case of conflict with the exercise by the General Government of any power it possesses under the Constitution, the mode or manner of exercising its police power is wholly within the discretion of the State so long as the Constitution of the United States is not contravened, or any right granted or secured thereby is not infringed, or not exercised in such an arbitrary and oppressive manner as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.

The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine 

in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.”

 

 

The CDC gets its authority from the Public Health Service Act, 42 USC  201 et seq..  The law provides that  the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services has the power to take measures to contain communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. The CDC acts on behalf of the Secretary in these matters.  It’s a Commerce Clause power.

 

The CDC can’t force you to get a vaccine, but they do have the power to determine that cruise ships must ensure that their passengers are vaccinated.

[ProgRockCruiser]

14 minutes ago, basil's mom said:

it was my understanding that vaccination was supposed to keep you from getting the COVID-19 virus. If you were vaccinated why are you worried about the people who are not vaccinated?

This point has been brought up and discussed to death.

 

I am vaccinated - I am not concerned about unvaccinated people near me.

 

The concern is that if enough unvaxxed pax get on a cruise and a minor outbreak occurs, it will be a media circus and death knell for the cruise industry.

 

The other major detractor is that if masks are required and social distancing hugely enforced on cruises because of an unknown number of unvaxxed pax, such that everyone has to wear a mask, and everyone has to stay 6 ft apart in the shows, and no service at the bar, etc, then the whole experience will be miserable for everyone.  Right now, if all pax are fully vaxxed the social distancing stuff get hugely relaxed.  Hey, that rhymes!

[songbird1329]

20 minutes ago, basil's mom said:

 

 

it was my understanding that vaccination was supposed to keep you from getting the COVID-19 virus. 

 

 You misunderstood.

 

The vaccine isn’t designed to keep you from contracting the virus.  It’s designed to keep you out of the hospital, off a vent and out of the morgue,

 

Fully vaccinated people have been known to test positive for the virus and have been known to have mild symptoms if they have a breakthrough infection.

[songbird1329]

3 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

This point has been brought up and discussed to death.

 

I am vaccinated - I am not concerned about unvaccinated people near me.

 

The concern is that if enough unvaxxed pax get on a cruise and a minor outbreak occurs, it will be a media circus and death knell for the cruise industry.

 

The other major detractor is that if masks are required and social distancing hugely enforced on cruises because of an unknown number of unvaxxed pax, such that everyone has to wear a mask, and everyone has to stay 6 ft apart in the shows, and no service at the bar, etc, then the whole experience will be miserable for everyone.  Right now, if all pax are fully vaxxed the social distancing stuff get hugely relaxed.  Hey, that rhymes!

Exactly.  
 

I’d be upset if my cruise were ruined because of a Covid outbreak on my ship.  

[stellarose]

that is why for now , vaccinated it the way to go. for now....