So the states can mandate the rules?

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

The vaccinated passenger also carries a higher morality

Wow.... think highly of your self?

[coffeebean]

6 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The paper card was designed to be used just for your records. When you signed up you should have been required to enter the necessary PII for positive identification within the states records system. Unfortunately, the USA electronic medical records system is just as broken as the rest of our system and there are competing electronic systems that won't talk to each other. So, it is likely your Drs office is saying they don't have the info because their system can't receive or process the data from the state's system.

 

Also, Florida's record system.... well... it might as well be on punch cards, they are so far behind, I think Mississippi has a better system and IT personal that have a clue. It's just like Florida's unemployment system that was designed pre AWS and couldn't be migrated to a new system or modified to scale to handle the increased volume.

I've said this before but maybe not on this thread so here goes......

 

I'm a Florida resident. I asked my PCP to obtain my immunization records from the State of Florida Health Department. By the following day, I picked up my immunization records from my doctor's office. All my immunizations were recorded on this record, including my childhood vaccinations which I received when I was a resident of New York State. My immunization records also include my Moderna vaccinations with the dates and location of administration for each dose.

 

Needless to say, I'm extremely impressed with Florida's Health Department.

[jrapps]

Just now, coffeebean said:

I've said this before but maybe not on this thread so here goes......

 

I'm a Florida resident. I asked my PCP to obtain my immunization records from the State of Florida Health Department. By the following day, I picked up my immunization records from my doctor's office. All my immunizations were recorded on this record, including my childhood vaccinations which I received when I was a resident of New York State. My immunization records also include my Moderna vaccinations with the dates and location of administration for each dose.

 

Needless to say, I'm extremely impressed with Florida's Health Department.

Damn that is impressive. I see my PCPO next week, I am going to request this.

[MommaBear55]

2 hours ago, detroitautocruisers said:

what's the difference between a vax or unvax person you both can carry the virus!

Vaccinated people do not carry virus in amounts large enough to make others ill.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/can-people-vaccinated-against-covid-19-still-spread-the-coronavirus

[sept10dsm]

19 hours ago, harkinmr said:

You have it reversed. Under the Supremacy Clause, federal law preempts state law. States can pass LESS restrictive laws, not MORE restrictive than federal law. 

I wish that they can't have the more restrictive laws pertained to everything.  

Edited June 9, 2021 by sept10dsm
spelliing

[ctr5000]

On 6/8/2021 at 9:17 AM, ramja96 said:

 

Texas just joined the party this morning.

Yeah I saw that.  Hope they lose in court. 

[Tippyton]

2 hours ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

This research is exciting for sure, and gets lots of press.

 

But there are caveats at the end of the article:

 

“This is a very important observation,” given claims of dwindling SARS-CoV-2 antibodies, says Rafi Ahmed, an immunologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, whose team co-discovered the cells in the late 1990s. What’s not clear is what antibody levels will look like in the long term and whether they offer any protection, Ahmed adds. “We’re early in the game. We’re not looking at five years, ten years after infection.”

 

Ellebedy’s team has observed early signs that Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine should trigger the production of the same cells⁴. But the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or by infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is, we will need a booster.”

 

 

Parsing and caveating go with the territory.  To be clear, the preponderance of the evidence still points in the same direction. To say "No" is clearly ignorant, notwithstanding that there is zero evidence pointing the other direction.  I dont understand the mindset that recovered people are not immune and need a vaccine where there is nothing to support that.

 

- The Forgotten 20

[ctr5000]

On 6/8/2021 at 10:12 AM, crewsweeper said:

There is NO such thing as a vaccine "passport".  Nothing ever issued by the US Government.  Nothing ever issued by any other nation.

 

What is being talked about here is being required to show proof of vaccination.  The only proof, other than from your lips, is the card or paper you get from the facility where you get vaccinated that says you have a vaccination.  This may also be shared with your medical provider if you got a shot in another place. 

 

But here's nothing "legal/official" about these pieces of paper.  A government entity cannot compile a list of vaccinated people to share with the public.  These pieces of paper can be easily be counterfeited and indeed there are reports you can buy on off Craig Lists or eBay.

 

Some states are opting for the privacy of individuals versus a dictatorial mandate to show some form of proof to enter a business or attend an event.

 

Simply get he vaccine and then you won't have to worry about testing positive or catching it from someone.

 

 

Well true as far as it goes.  Each state has an IIS (immunization information system) which tracks immunizations. Currently it can only be used if you lose your vaccination card to get another one or if there is ever a problem with a particular lot number of a vaccine, the recipients can be notified.  My hope is it will eventually allow various entities to verify Covid vaccination when appropriate.  

[Joebucks]

40 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

Vaccinated people do not carry virus in amounts large enough to make others ill.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/can-people-vaccinated-against-covid-19-still-spread-the-coronavirus

 

Neither do people previously infected with COVID.

[ctr5000]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:10 PM, not-enough-cruising said:

Of which there are none, currently

Uhm if you are from the USA and wish to travel to France, you must be vaccinated and had a negative PCR test within 72 hrs of your flight.  Denmark as of June 5 will allow only vaccinated USA citizens into their country. 

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, ctr5000 said:

Uhm if you are from the USA and wish to travel to France, you must be vaccinated and had a negative PCR test within 72 hrs of your flight.  Denmark as of June 5 will allow only vaccinated USA citizens into their country. 

That just started today I see for France. 

[ctr5000]

6 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

That just started today I see for France. 

True.  Near as I could tell, before today USA citizens could not go to France. I know you could go to the UK but you had to quarantine.  But I don’t think you could have gone to France at all. 

[ctr5000]

18 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

There are quite a few who seem to believe that herd immunity is achieved by vaccination alone. It is not. Herd immunity = Vaccinated plus previously infected plus naturally immune. And there are a LOT of previously infected people who have been advised by their physician not to get vaccinated. 

Yeah I’d get a new dr. 

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, Yorkvillain said:

Not to change topics but I actually liked Dynamic Dining. 

I am trying to remember if we did it or not.  I know it was gone by the time we were on the Ovation, but it might have still been in effect on the Anthem in September 2016.  I remember booking dining as if it was a real thing, but I can’t remember if it actually was.  I do remember I wasn’t against it, and now since I don’t remember if I had it or not, makes me think I didn’t think it mattered much.  🤣

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, detroitautocruisers said:

what's the difference between a vax or unvax person you both can carry the virus!

The difference is the vaxxed person has an extremely low chance of transmitting the virus to others. The un-vaxxed person can spread the virus more easily. The un-vaxxed person, to be less risky to spread the virus to others as the vaxxed person would have to wear a mask PROPERLY and be distanced from others.

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

HUGE difference in the amount of transferable virus carried. 

 

Of course! Seriously, anyone who needs to ask that question has not been listening.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, harkinmr said:

They don’t need to be specifically exempted. There is a provision in the legislation where it states the law is not intended to conflict with or otherwise apply in contravention of federal law or protections. Very standard catch all.  Don’t need a multi-page laundry list of every exemption under the sun. 

OK. I trust you know what you are talking about. I appreciate all of your posts.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, jrapps said:

$200 is not price gouging, it is close to the average cost that a Covid test is on land already.

 

If they really want it to encourage people to get vaccinated, they will charge it closer to $350-$400. That's an extra $1400-$1600 per cabin double occupancy.

 

Of course then those unvaccinated will just spend $20 on a fake CDC card instead....

 

I had no idea Covid tests were that expensive. I've never had one.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

Wow.... think highly of your self?

I would imagine he/she thinks highly of everyone who has been vaccinated. Besides protecting themselves, they are protecting their loved ones, protecting their friends, protecting their community. That goes a long way towards earning the distinction of being a moral person.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, jrapps said:

Damn that is impressive. I see my PCPO next week, I am going to request this.

I didn't even see my PCP in person. I made my request on their patient portal. I received a message from them the following day to come to the office to pick up my records.

[Eddie Wilson]

21 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

There are quite a few who seem to believe that herd immunity is achieved by vaccination alone. It is not. Herd immunity = Vaccinated plus previously infected plus naturally immune. And there are a LOT of previously infected people who have been advised by their physician not to get vaccinated. 

 

You are correct Rambo, herd immunity is a function of a few variables, and another premise that the immune and non-immune mix generally in a pro-rata ratio.  

 

So for arguments sake, it is believed in America the population over age 50 on their own have reached herd immunity percentages, using the equation you stated.  Those 30 and under, on their own are believed to not have reached herd immunity because obviously many are unvaccinated. The mixing of the two groups, given the age demographic on many cruises, the passengers as one group should be at or very close to herd immunity.

 

For me, here is what I hope and pray is NOT a future problem....when unvaccinated and uninfected gather as a group.....sort of like when kids programs put kids together, and teens naturally hang together.

 

The Covid Delta (Indian) variant is 40% more transmissible than the Covid Alpha (Kent, England) variant.  The Alpha variant is 50% more transmissible than the original virus that hit Dawn Princess.  So now as kids or teens gather, the Delta variant is twice as transmissible as Dawn.  Yuck.....R value could be up to 6!!!

 

Kids don’t get as sick, although some 20 and 30 somethings are getting more severe conditions with this variant, but what I don’t want to see is a knee jerk reaction from CDC if a bunch of people test positive at the end of cruises.  I don’t want to see a repeat of the NSO.  

 

And for for the record, I am NOT anti children and not afraid of cruising myself.

 

Eddie

 

[Dat Cruisin Couple]

4 hours ago, coffeebean said:

The difference is the vaxxed person has an extremely low chance of transmitting the virus to others. The un-vaxxed person can spread the virus more easily. The un-vaxxed person, to be less risky to spread the virus to others as the vaxxed person would have to wear a mask PROPERLY and be distanced from others.

 

Vaccines reduce the viral load of a disease within an organization. That means there is less virus to make you sick and less virus for you to spread to others. You can still get sick or spread, but the degree is less.

[Mythbuster]

On 6/8/2021 at 1:53 PM, coffeebean said:

For the 100000000000th time........vaccinated people are not afraid for their health and safety, generally. I will speak for myself here and say that my mRNA vaccine offers me protection from Covid and I feel perfectly safe. I have no fear of Covid. I have been out and about among the un-vaxxed and without a mask too.

 

What I do not want to deal with is a cruise vacation that will be negatively impacted if there were a Covid outbreak on board because of un-vaxxed passengers. I also do not want to adhere to safety protocols that will be dictated by un-vaxxed passengers on board.

 

How many times do we vaccinated folks have to say that in response to that silly comment that you made? Maybe another thousand times will do it? Will it take that many times for you to understand the stance of vaccinated people? SMH!

I am afraid repeating it more will be to no avail.  In my experience with anti-vaxxers I have seen one of 2 traits. 

1) they do not believe the virus exists or is not harmful so they do not see a possibility that the cruise (or anything else in their lives) will be impacted by a non-existent virus.  They obviously missed the horrific cruises of last spring.

2) they believe their freedom of choice trumps any benefits to the community and feel zero responsibility to their fellow man, therefore asking you to stay home so their freedoms are not impacted is perfectly within reason.

 

I absolutely respect anyone's choice to get the vax or not.  However, as with all parts of our lives there are consequences for what we choose, including having limits on how and where you travel or complying with special rules if you choose not to be vaccinated. 

[Mythbuster]

In the event of an outbreak among the unvaccinated passengers, the state of Florida should be liable for reimbursing the cruise line and all non sick passengers for expenses incurred to deal with any outbreak and refunds for the cruise fare.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Mythbuster