Royal Caribbean Says Unvaccinated Guests Will Face Restrictions, Higher Costs

[sneadae]

5 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

It will depend on the country, they could deny entry for the entire ship. I believe the UK cruises are having that problem with some of the other countries that make up the BIs and getting approval to dock.

That was my other thought. So basically the cruise lines may have to design itineraries around the countries that are permitting unvaccinated people to enter. Which could potentially limit where ships can/cannot go.
 

I guess I’m just surprised that more people aren’t discussing this issue. It’s not about the State of Florida’s vaccine law...it’s much bigger than that. Other countries truly don’t care whether or not Florida has a law that says cruise lines can’t require the covid vaccine in order to sail. Those countries will care about protecting their own country, at least for now, until the majority of their people have access to the vaccine. 

[ArthurUSCG]

2 minutes ago, sneadae said:

That was my other thought. So basically the cruise lines may have to design itineraries around the countries that are permitting unvaccinated people to enter. Which could potentially limit where ships can/cannot go.
 

I guess I’m just surprised that more people aren’t discussing this issue. It’s not about the State of Florida’s vaccine law...it’s much bigger than that. Other countries truly don’t care whether or not Florida has a law that says cruise lines can’t require the covid vaccine in order to sail. Those countries will care about protecting their own country, at least for now, until the majority of their people have access to the vaccine. 

CARICON (caribbean goverments group) sounds like it will have a unified strategy shortly, from what they have said, it is sounding like most of the islands want to adopt the same policy.

"They agreed that initially there would be an Emergency Tourism Plan with a subsequent more detailed policy and strategy being developed by the third quarter of 2021."

https://caricom.org/communique-issued-at-the-conclusion-of-the-thirty-second-inter-sessional-meeting-of-the-conference-of-heads-of-government-of-the-caribbean-community/

[jrapps]

11 minutes ago, sneadae said:

That was my other thought. So basically the cruise lines may have to design itineraries around the countries that are permitting unvaccinated people to enter. Which could potentially limit where ships can/cannot go.
 

I guess I’m just surprised that more people aren’t discussing this issue. It’s not about the State of Florida’s vaccine law...it’s much bigger than that. Other countries truly don’t care whether or not Florida has a law that says cruise lines can’t require the covid vaccine in order to sail. Those countries will care about protecting their own country, at least for now, until the majority of their people have access to the vaccine. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far there isn't a single destination (at least in the Caribbean that I am aware of) that is requiring visiting ships to be vaccinated. If there was, that would be a total game changer. 

 

Some countries (Bahamas) require a covid test within x number of days before you arrive, I think Bahamas it is 5. So if you were theoretically on a 7 day cruise that visited a Bahamas port on your 6th or 7th day, then I assume you will need to re-test while on the ship to be allowed onshore? Not sure if any ports or cruise lines have published their scenarios to that level of detail yet.

[ArthurUSCG]

4 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far there isn't a single destination (at least in the Caribbean that I am aware of) that is requiring visiting ships to be vaccinated. If there was, that would be a total game changer. 

 

Some countries (Bahamas) require a covid test within x number of days before you arrive, I think Bahamas it is 5. So if you were theoretically on a 7 day cruise that visited a Bahamas port on your 6th or 7th day, then I assume you will need to re-test while on the ship to be allowed onshore? Not sure if any ports or cruise lines have published their scenarios to that level of detail yet.

Not yet, but several caribbean countries are expressing issues with unvaccinated passengers, since they don't have the facilities to deal with an outbreak.

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/usvi-seeks-caricoms-help-reverse-floridas-covid-vaccination-law-5

[jrapps]

Just now, ArthurUSCG said:

Not yet, but several caribbean countries are expressing issues with unvaccinated passengers, since they don't have the facilities to deal with an outbreak.

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/usvi-seeks-caricoms-help-reverse-floridas-covid-vaccination-law-5

If they change their policies and require vaccinations between now and July/Aug, then all this changes again. FL will require vaccines, and I doubt there is anything that can be done about it.

[sneadae]

2 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far there isn't a single destination (at least in the Caribbean that I am aware of) that is requiring visiting ships to be vaccinated. If there was, that would be a total game changer. 

 

Some countries (Bahamas) require a covid test within x number of days before you arrive, I think Bahamas it is 5. So if you were theoretically on a 7 day cruise that visited a Bahamas port on your 6th or 7th day, then I assume you will need to re-test while on the ship to be allowed onshore? Not sure if any ports or cruise lines have published their scenarios to that level of detail yet.

I actually don’t know the answer to that. I guess I wasn’t really referring to any specific country or port. It was more of a hypothetical. As an example, I think the BVIs are still requiring that people visiting the islands have to quarantine for a few days before moving around freely. I’m sure there are other countries that are also opening tourism with caution, but I don’t know which countries and it doesn’t really concern me so I won’t research any of that. It is just my opinion that there will be some countries that will be overly cautious in allowing a cruise ship full of people to dock and permit them to move about freely - at least for right now. And that any law that the state of Florida puts into effect won’t matter to the bigger picture. But that’s just my opinion and again I don’t really care because it won’t affect me. 

[Babr]

31 minutes ago, sneadae said:

That was my other thought. So basically the cruise lines may have to design itineraries around the countries that are permitting unvaccinated people to enter. Which could potentially limit where ships can/cannot go.
 

I guess I’m just surprised that more people aren’t discussing this issue. It’s not about the State of Florida’s vaccine law...it’s much bigger than that. Other countries truly don’t care whether or not Florida has a law that says cruise lines can’t require the covid vaccine in order to sail. Those countries will care about protecting their own country, at least for now, until the majority of their people have access to the vaccine. 

It has been discussed briefly somewhere on one of these threads, but perhaps people who haven’t travelled much don’t understand the concept of port entry or they make up their own rules for how it should work.

 

I tried to make the points you bring up. You’ve stated them very nicely here.

[texmat]

1 hour ago, thrifty99 said:

 The chances of an outbreak and/or size of an outbreak increases with a higher % of unvaccinated passengers. So from a business perspective, is it so wrong to allow the hardest hit industry use some extra precautions to get back to business?

At this point, there is zero chance of a severe outbreak. MSC has been cruising since August with no vaccines. No problems 

[RedIguana]

13 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

Personally, I'm cheering them for taking the more capitalist approach as opposed to the socialist one.

 

12 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Capitalism works both ways. Socialism is the one that works one way.

Both ways are capitalism. The government would have to own the ship and RCL to be socialism.

[not-enough-cruising]

57 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

Not yet, but several caribbean countries are expressing issues with unvaccinated passengers, since they don't have the facilities to deal with an outbreak.

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/usvi-seeks-caricoms-help-reverse-floridas-covid-vaccination-law-5

As well they should be concerned 

[not-enough-cruising]

56 minutes ago, sneadae said:

I actually don’t know the answer to that. I guess I wasn’t really referring to any specific country or port. It was more of a hypothetical. As an example, I think the BVIs are still requiring that people visiting the islands have to quarantine for a few days before moving around freely. I’m sure there are other countries that are also opening tourism with caution, but I don’t know which countries and it doesn’t really concern me so I won’t research any of that. It is just my opinion that there will be some countries that will be overly cautious in allowing a cruise ship full of people to dock and permit them to move about freely - at least for right now. And that any law that the state of Florida puts into effect won’t matter to the bigger picture. But that’s just my opinion and again I don’t really care because it won’t affect me. 

Semi-Related 

I just learned from another poster that France put a policy in place yesterday 6/9 that disallows unvaccinated Americans from visiting. Another country, Netherlands maybe, has the same policy going into effect in the coming weeks. 

[coffeebean]

19 hours ago, ricksurf said:

Stay safe and feel safe; stay out of Florida and Texas and board your cruise in a state which follows scientific guidelines.  The cruise industry didn't need those two states sticking their noses into ship protocols.

Unfortunately, Florida is the cruise capitol of the world.

[not-enough-cruising]

17 minutes ago, texmat said:

At this point, there is zero chance of a severe outbreak. MSC has been cruising since August with no vaccines. No problems 

When dealing with the CDC regulating the industry, one does not need a severe outbreak to have a major impact on the sailing. 

[sneadae]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

Unfortunately, Florida is the cruise capitol of the world.

I don’t know if they are or not. But Florida does not dictate what the world and other countries allow or don’t allow. 

[thrifty99]

52 minutes ago, texmat said:

At this point, there is zero chance of a severe outbreak. MSC has been cruising since August with no vaccines. No problems 

I don't follow MSC so I have no idea what their protocols are, where they have been sailing since August, or if they have had no problems.  Other countries have not been as polarized as the US with things such as masks so wherever MSC Cruises from may have better cooperation with passengers all working together to keep the ships safe.  But we are talking about the U.S. and Royal Caribbean sailings so that is what my comments are referring to.

 

As for zero chance of a severe outbreak, I think "zero chance" is an overstatement.  And it depends on what you define as a severe outbreak.  An outbreak that takes forces cruising to take a step back once cruises re-open would be severe in my opinion... especially to the cruise lines financially.  With the US vaccination rate under 50%, I doubt cruises re-opening with 50%+ of the passengers unvaccinated would have no problems.  I also expect some ports would be unwilling to accept that higher risk.  So, what is the downside to a more careful re-opening (that the cruise companies with billions at risk also want) with a high percentage of vaccinated passengers initially?  As each month progresses, cruising confidence increases as does the % of population that is vaccinated.  In a short time, cruising could return closer to normal.

[Mikew0805]

13 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

They think they will probably not get caught. If I was not vaccinated I would just wait till these restrictions go away, because sooner or later I think they will.

Absolutely they will. I also would prefer to believe that most people would not commit a crime to board a ship, when they can have a refund, and book at a later time.  

[sept10dsm]

The most foolish thing to do is lie about it.  

[ArthurUSCG]

The MSC ship had to skip a port due to 2 people in different parties tested positive. Both parties plus 2 other people that were in close contact were removed from the ship.

https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-cruises-msc-passengers-mediterranean-2021-6

[Babr]

13 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The MSC ship had to skip a port due to 2 people in different parties tested positive. Both parties plus 2 other people that were in close contact were removed from the ship.

https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-cruises-msc-passengers-mediterranean-2021-6

I wonder what it means by “close contact.”  It sounds as if they were not necessarily traveling with either party - perhaps people they struck up a friendship with once on board?

Edited June 10, 2021 by Babr

[ArthurUSCG]

1 minute ago, Babr said:

I wonder what it means by “close contact.”  It sounds as if they were not necessarily traveling together - perhaps people they struck up a friendship with once on board?

Sounds like it, the kicker is the people in close contact did NOT test positive but where also removed.

[coffeebean]

18 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

 

NOT what the Cleveland Clinic says.

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research – Cleveland Clinic Newsroom

 

 

@Merion_Mom Thank you for using the LINK icon OR have you been using it all along and I didn't realize it?

 

I also read that the mRNA vaccines are more protective against the Delta variant where natural infection is not as protective against this variant. I have a feeling this is why proof of natural infection is not being accepted by the cruise lines as "having immunity". Read about it HERE.

 

[coffeebean]

14 hours ago, jrapps said:

I think the part you don't understand is that the cruise lines don't want unvaccinated people on their ships. This isn't about compliance with the CDC, this is about getting a business started back up again as quickly and safely and as profitable as possible. The executives of these lines have said time and time again that the vaccines are their ticket back.

 

The unvaccinated act like the cruise lines are fighting for them, the little guy...they aren't. The cruise lines want all vaccinated cruises more than we do. They are fighting to restart their business. They have chosen to mandate vaccines wherever they can by law (Bahamas, TX, etc). Where they can't (FL) the lines came up with the idea of charging unvaccinated all on their own. Nobody forced that on them. If they go forward with charging exorbitant high prices for Covid tests, that is the cruise lines way of telling unvaccinated passengers to wait.

 

I personally don't care if unvaccinated people are on the ship with me or not. But I'm pretty sure the cruise line is the one that cares, and they are doing everything they can to start sailing without that hassle.

But......aren't the cruise lines who want to sail from Florida able to inform all passengers that if they show proof of vaccination, they will not have to have Covid tests and they will be able to enjoy their cruise without having to mask up? Hasn't that been established that is what Celebrity is doing?

 

14 hours ago, jrapps said:

I think the part you don't understand is that the cruise lines don't want unvaccinated people on their ships. This isn't about compliance with the CDC, this is about getting a business started back up again as quickly and safely and as profitable as possible. The executives of these lines have said time and time again that the vaccines are their ticket back.

 

The unvaccinated act like the cruise lines are fighting for them, the little guy...they aren't. The cruise lines want all vaccinated cruises more than we do. They are fighting to restart their business. They have chosen to mandate vaccines wherever they can by law (Bahamas, TX, etc). Where they can't (FL) the lines came up with the idea of charging unvaccinated all on their own. Nobody forced that on them. If they go forward with charging exorbitant high prices for Covid tests, that is the cruise lines way of telling unvaccinated passengers to wait.

 

I personally don't care if unvaccinated people are on the ship with me or not. But I'm pretty sure the cruise line is the one that cares, and they are doing everything they can to start sailing without that hassle.

I see it this way too. The cruise lines are going to do everything possible to discourage un-vaccinated to cruise with them out of Florida.

[jrapps]

4 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I see it this way too. The cruise lines are going to do everything possible to discourage un-vaccinated to cruise with them out of Florida.

Exactly. Heck, they are even testing the VACCINATED people on the AOS sailing. They will do everything in their power to prevent Covid from getting on the ship.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

23 hours ago, Tapi said:

I did a mock booking on Celebrity for my family of 4, which includes 2 small unvaccinated children. If I book a cabin for 4, the 3rd and 4th guest rate is way higher than the 1st and 2nd guest rate. I can get two connecting balconies for $1,000 less than one ocean view for 4. 

this has always been true for me for Carnival. There are 3 of us, with a 10 yo kid. Every time I looked up a Carnival cruise in the last 3-4 years, it was something like this:

 

1st person $679, 2nd person $679, 3rd person $1,079. I even asked on the Carnival subforum why Carnival hates people traveling with their children.

 

 

 

So, I just booked MSC and Princess for 2022, and the 3rd person rate was a lot less than the first two.

[Moltar]

6 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Unfortunately, Florida is the cruise capitol of the world.

That means nothing. Ships leave from at least 5 other ports in the USA as well as dozens upon dozens around the world. It's the Caribbean Cruise Capital, that's it.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Moltar