Wearing Masks = Cancellation

[mauraoel]

1 minute ago, Evilgrin72 said:

 

I believe that what it's saying is that they aren't required in venues or events that are designated for vaccinated guests only.  That's too vague for me to bank on - what percentage of venues/events are going to be designated for vaccinated guests only?  If it's one lounge and the occasional show, that means you'd still have to wear one unless seated for dinner, in your cabin, or in that one designated lounge. 

And that's the arguement, everyone is interpreting the sentence and gramatically it doesn't say that.

[Evilgrin72]

Just now, mauraoel said:

The Face Masks Statement above was copied directly from the Website, I just notice that someone above posted it as well but changed some Grammar that is not what it says on the website.

Right, but it can be read two ways (just as I believe they intended.)  Does it mean :

 

a) Masks don't need to be worn in venues restricted to vaccinated guests and events restricted to vaccinated guests?  Or...

 

b) Masks don't need to be worn in any venue, nor at events restricted to vaccinated guests.

 

Option B is how the sentence is structured, but if they meant that, why first say that masks are required indoors unless seated and actively eating/drinking first?  As a former copywriter, I think they want you to think b) but actually mean a).  I suspect anyone sailing thinking otherwise is going to be in for an unpleasant surprise.

[mauraoel]

This is all really moot as the rules will change shortly anyway and who know what it will say then.  But it isn't going to stop my family from boarding in September.

[Evilgrin72]

Just now, mauraoel said:

This is all really moot as the rules will change shortly anyway and who know what it will say then.  But it isn't going to stop my family from boarding in September.

 

Nor should it.  I just think as a friendly word of advice, if I was you, I'd assume they mean a) and be pleasantly surprised if they meant b) rather than board assuming b) and being disappointed to find out it's a).  Unless wearing the mask at a lot of places indoors doesn't bother you at all, in which case, you don't need to even think about it.  Plus, as you say - it will probably change between now and September, we have no idea what venues/events are going to be designated for vaxxed guests only, etc.  If I was RCL, I'd designate 1 small venue to non-vaccinated guests and make the rest of the ship "vaxxed only" if they really want to hit that 95% threshold.  Not sure how they'd enforce it, but that would be the way to go if you want non-vaccinated guests to cancel, just tell them they have to wear the mask all week long.

[Iamcruzin]

24 minutes ago, Oxo said:

 Maybe they should wear masks and eat less? LOL

I predict that there will be a lot more eating drinking on these early cruises just to avoid wearing a mask. 

[Evilgrin72]

Just now, mauraoel said:

If figure if the rules are still the same which I doubt they will be I will take a printout of the website.  I highly doubt that sitting in one of the bars with a drink in front of me while chatting with my family that they are going to force me to put a mask on.

They might, that's all I'm saying.  Be prepared for that.  If they do mean that you are only permitted to sit without a mask at lounges designated for vaccinated passengers only, and I'm 99% sure they do, all the printouts in the world aren't going to help you.  The crew will have received orders and aren't going to be able to disobey based on how someone interpreted the grammar on the website, even if you're correct that it was phrased poorly.

 

It's also possible that they just don't enforce the rule at all - that's entirely possible, but I don't know that I'd want to stake my vacation on that if the idea of wearing a mask for a good portion of your cruise bothers you as it does me.  More power to you if you are willing to do so; I'm not trying to sway you or anyone else one way or the other, just offering my take on things.  I have no agenda here other than trying to be helpful.

[bucfan2]

26 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

They might, that's all I'm saying.  Be prepared for that.  If they do mean that you are only permitted to sit without a mask at lounges designated for vaccinated passengers only, and I'm 99% sure they do, all the printouts in the world aren't going to help you.  The crew will have received orders and aren't going to be able to disobey based on how someone interpreted the grammar on the website, even if you're correct that it was phrased poorly.

 

It's also possible that they just don't enforce the rule at all - that's entirely possible, but I don't know that I'd want to stake my vacation on that if the idea of wearing a mask for a good portion of your cruise bothers you as it does me.  More power to you if you are willing to do so; I'm not trying to sway you or anyone else one way or the other, just offering my take on things.  I have no agenda here other than trying to be helpful.

Any chance you could go into a little more depth on your opinion?

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, Evilgrin72 said:

 

That link takes you to a page that no longer exists, apparently.  It flashes for a second and then gives you an "Oops" message. 

Try this link.  It has protocols for all RCI cruise port locations. Nassau, Galveston, Seattle, Florida and Cyprus. 
 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center

[Evilgrin72]

7 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Any chance you could go into a little more depth on your opinion?

 

More often than not, when wording is that ambiguous and open to interpretation on a website or mailer for a company the size of RCL, it's not because the copywriter/editor worded it "poorly"/failed to catch the grammatical error.  It's intentionally obfuscating reality at worst or leaving "reality" to be interpreted by the reader at best.  I'm not saying definitively that that's what is happening here, but if I was editing for their website, in a million years I wouldn't have allowed that sentence to hit the eyes of the masses, no matter what they mean by it.  It's either grammatically incorrect or horribly unclear, no matter which interpretation is gleaned from it.

 

Based on the fact that the preceding portion of it indicates that all guests are required to wear masks in public areas when not eating/drinking, I am of the firm belief that what they meant by that was that if you're in a venue or at an event that is not designated for vaccinated passengers only, that you must have a mask on.  I understand that many have read that differently, but I'd be willing to bet that I'm right on this.  If nothing else, I just want people who read that to mean that masks are not required in any venue - writ large - to be prepared for the eventuality that they're going to be asked to put a mask on when they're sitting in a bar or showroom in which they didn't expect to have to wear one.  Unless they don't enforce the mask rule at all, which is a possibility as well.

 

Either way, I think that being this unclear about it may help short-term bookings but is going to cause their crew massive headaches in the coming months.  I would be very unhappy with this if i was an RCL crew member.  They are going to have their hands full in a way they never have before.

[Evilgrin72]

7 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Try this link.  It has protocols for all RCI cruise port locations. Nassau, Galveston, Seattle, Florida and Cyprus. 
 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center

 

That worked.  It also has much more clear wording on what we're discussing if you click on the "cruises out of Miami" link..

 

When indoors, CDC guidelines require all guests 2 and older to wear masks unless they are actively eating or drinking. The CDC does make allowances for guests to remove their masks in venues and events dedicated to fully vaccinated parties. Since so many of our guests are vaccinated, you’ll find plenty of these opportunities.

 

Masks are not required in your stateroom when you are with your traveling party, outside on the open decks, or at Perfect Day at CocoCay, unless in a crowded setting. In the coming days, we are expecting updated guidance from the CDC on mask policies for vaccinated guests in shared spaces and will update you at that time.

 

I think that settles the discussion around interpretation of the unclear wording posted earlier.  If you're outside and not in a "crowded setting," if you're in your stateroom, if you're actively eating (i.e. dining room,) or if you're vaccinated AND in a venue designated for vaccinated guests only, you don't have to wear a mask.  If none of the above applies, you're expected to wear one.  For anyone boarding unvaccinated, it looks like you're staring down the barrel of a severely reduced number of places to hang out, AND a requirement to wear a mask while you're in them.  I wouldn't expect anything but that unless you want to be disappointed.  However, they do say that updated guidance from the CDC is coming, so it's entirely possible that may change before you board.  For me, I'm not booking squat until I have specifics on what venues require masks, what venues are designated vax-only, etc.  YMMV.

[Evilgrin72]

Also, bear in mind that "actively drinking" doesn't mean sitting at a bar with a drink in front of you.  These are the same rules planes have and Vegas had on my last 3 trips there before my journey last week.... if you have a beverage, they expect you to have a mask on, lower it to take a sip (gulp) and then put it back on as soon as you're done until you take your next sip (gulp.)

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, Evilgrin72 said:

 

That worked.  It also has much more clear wording on what we're discussing if you click on the "cruises out of Miami" link..

 

When indoors, CDC guidelines require all guests 2 and older to wear masks unless they are actively eating or drinking. The CDC does make allowances for guests to remove their masks in venues and events dedicated to fully vaccinated parties. Since so many of our guests are vaccinated, you’ll find plenty of these opportunities.

 

Masks are not required in your stateroom when you are with your traveling party, outside on the open decks, or at Perfect Day at CocoCay, unless in a crowded setting. In the coming days, we are expecting updated guidance from the CDC on mask policies for vaccinated guests in shared spaces and will update you at that time.

 

I think that settles the discussion around interpretation of the unclear wording posted earlier.  If you're outside and not in a "crowded setting," if you're in your stateroom, if you're actively eating (i.e. dining room,) or if you're vaccinated AND in a venue designated for vaccinated guests only, you don't have to wear a mask.  If none of the above applies, you're expected to wear one.  For anyone boarding unvaccinated, it looks like you're staring down the barrel of a severely reduced number of places to hang out, AND a requirement to wear a mask while you're in them.  I wouldn't expect anything but that unless you want to be disappointed.  However, they do say that updated guidance from the CDC is coming, so it's entirely possible that may change before you board.  For me, I'm not booking squat until I have specifics on what venues require masks, what venues are designated vax-only, etc.  YMMV.

I agree with your interpretation and the language you quote backs that up. No one should go on one of these cruises believing that protocols won’t be enforced because that will surely lead to frustration or disappointment, or both. Nor should anyone expect that the rules will change quickly. They may or they may not. “Be prepared “ as you say. 

[Iamcruzin]

delete

Edited June 25, 2021 by Iamcruzin

[Evilgrin72]

Also, I think they're going to have the vast majority of venues and events designated as "vax only."  DeSantis can't do anything about that.  Want to provide proof of vaccination?  Awesome... here you go.  Lots of places for you to chill out sans mask.  We won't ASK you for it, but should you choose not to provide it?  Fine.  Here are one or two places you're allowed to go - oh, and you have to wear a mask the whole time you're there unless you're taking a sip of that pina colada.  Feel free to sit outside.  It'll be like being a smoker with a cig going.

 

It's going to be a miserable experience (relatively speaking) for passengers unwilling to voluntarily furnish vaccine proof.  It's going to be even more miserable for the crew that has to deal with throngs of angry passengers feeling misled by what they read on the RCL site before booking a non-refundable cruise.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Evilgrin72

[Iamcruzin]

6 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

Also, bear in mind that "actively drinking" doesn't mean sitting at a bar with a drink in front of you.  These are the same rules planes have and Vegas had on my last 3 trips there before my journey last week.... if you have a beverage, they expect you to have a mask on, lower it to take a sip (gulp) and then put it back on as soon as you're done until you take your next sip (gulp.)

My wife and son said JetBlue had the same rule back in March.  I guess the same applies when smoking in the casino.

[Evilgrin72]

4 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

I agree with your interpretation and the language you quote backs that up. No one should go on one of these cruises believing that protocols won’t be enforced because that will surely lead to frustration or disappointment, or both. Nor should anyone expect that the rules will change quickly. They may or they may not. “Be prepared “ as you say. 

 

Exactly.  I have no axe to grind here, I just feel for people booking that are unvaccinated thinking it's going to just be a "normal cruise" only to find out once they get on board that they're going to be restricted to 10% of the ship (arbitrary number) and have to wear a mask the whole time.  That would suck so hard, and I just don't want any CCers to get a terribly unpleasant surprise.

[Evilgrin72]

Just now, Iamcruzin said:

My wife and son said JetBlue had the same rule back in March.  I guess the same applies when smoking in the casino.

It was the same in Vegas before they dropped the mandate a few weeks ago.  I was there in October, December, and March - if you were at a slot machine and had a beer, they expected you to have the mask up, lower it for 3 seconds to take a swig, then put the mask right back up.  If someone was smoking, they expected them to pull it down, take a puff, the raise it right back up, even if the cigarette was still going.  A couple of times, I lowered mine, took a pull from my beer, and then momentarily forgot to raise it while placing a bet or something - often within seconds, someone was right there saying "sir, please put your mask back up..."  I doubt this will be any different.  They can't afford to play fast and loose with the rules given the auspices.

[ampurp85]

@HMR74 I believe 100% that no cruises in 2021 will be close to capacity. Mr Fain actually said that they weren't even going to get to 50% capacity until a few months after the first sailing...rather they were slowly going to 50%. I cruise Oct 31st on Allure, I was estimating maybe 70% capacity. I think the number may be lower, around 60%.  I don't think there will be many kids or unvax pax because many people across boards say they won't get vax'd or cruise with mask. I would say since CWC is still around and if you don't feel confident, it is better to cancel before payment. My cousin works for American Airlines and they were told to expect mask to be in place until 2022.

[MommaBear55]

11 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Same place you got yours

What year did you graduate? I was 2005. 

[not-enough-cruising]

On 6/25/2021 at 8:38 AM, CruisingSince1982 said:

It won't. The majority are vaccinated. The rules for those unvaccinated to sail are crazy. Separate dining rooms? Separate shows? Masks all the time except outdoors? You really think the ships are going to be filled with unvaccinated passengers? Royal does not want them on their ships, and the rules reflect that. 

The new rules announced overnight enforce that, no unvaccinated in the casino or in the spa treatment rooms.  Also unvaccinated are not permitted to take independent excursions.

[not-enough-cruising]

21 hours ago, Evilgrin72 said:

What exactly are the current rules?  It's so muddy....

 

If 95% of passengers and crew are vaccinated, then masks are not required?  But for FL and TX departures, because they won't allow a vaccine requirement, you have to wear a mask unless in your stateroom or eating?  If I book a cruise out of a state where vaccine proof is required, are masks no longer required onboard?  I'm so confused.

You are wrong on Texas, vaccine mandate is perfectly legal, and Royal is requiring everyone eligible to be vaccinated.

[Keksie]

Vaccinated or not vaccinated I can't imagine wanting to cruise when the rules are so fluid right now.  

[BecciBoo]

17 hours ago, HMR74 said:

On the other hand, the Senior Adult Celebrity Cruise for spring 2022 looks pretty good. Except for the flight/mask issue

 

Ha....I don't mind a mask on a plane, I normally sleep all the way there and the mask hides my drop jaw perfectly!🤤

[forgotmyCCname]

19 hours ago, Evilgrin72 said:

Also, I think they're going to have the vast majority of venues and events designated as "vax only."  DeSantis can't do anything about that.  Want to provide proof of vaccination?  Awesome... here you go.  Lots of places for you to chill out sans mask.  We won't ASK you for it, but should you choose not to provide it?  Fine.  Here are one or two places you're allowed to go - oh, and you have to wear a mask the whole time you're there unless you're taking a sip of that pina colada.  Feel free to sit outside.  It'll be like being a smoker with a cig going.

 

It's going to be a miserable experience (relatively speaking) for passengers unwilling to voluntarily furnish vaccine proof.  It's going to be even more miserable for the crew that has to deal with throngs of angry passengers feeling misled by what they read on the RCL site before booking a non-refundable cruise.

Royal has stated that if the new rules are not acceptable re: Vaccine , that you can get a refund instead of a FCC. i cant find the link right now; its probably on one of the deleted threads.

[Evilgrin72]

6 hours ago, forgotmyCCname said:

Royal has stated that if the new rules are not acceptable re: Vaccine , that you can get a refund instead of a FCC. i cant find the link right now; its probably on one of the deleted threads.

That's good, at least it provides an out to those who may have interpreted their mask rules differently.