Should I be worried about my kiddos?

[DCPIV]

22 hours ago, ch175 said:

Is there something about covid that makes it more contagious on a cruise ship or in foreign ports than it is in a school or in my home town? Especially when 90+% of the ship is vaccinated versus essentially 0 in the schools last year.

 

Much higher population density and repeated exposure to the same folks over and over again. That's the 

With the vaccination requirements (and the testing requirements for some ports and ships) and lower capacity (at the moment), I agree that we're not talking about tremendous danger.  However, just a little arithmetic lets you know that a ship that's 95% vaccinated with a vaccine that's 95% effective still has potential for a couple hundred passengers to contract COVID and pass it along should a case slip through (and we've already seen a case slip through on the Millenium).  Those that aren't vaccinated are far, far, far more likely to be in that small group.

 

I'm not trying to be alarmist at all.  In fact, DW and I might very well be boarding Summit in a few weeks.  However, I will be realistic.

[3Shelaghs]

I would address it this way: I think kids onboard are great, even when they are bad. If a responsible parent addresses the kids needs and outbursts in a correct manner, everyone understands. The parents NOT managing their unruly kids, are the issue!

But think of it from a kids eyes. He's in a mask, he is distanced,  he soaks in  the stress and anxiety of parents and others, and most definitely is at risk for the Delta variant..... not fair to the kid IMHO.

If little Johnny gets Covid while onboard, I would imagine he would rather be at home sick?

I would delay their trip of a lifetime til the world is in a calmer state, when he can fully enjoy all cruising has to offer, and be in a safer environment should he get sick.

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, 3Shelaghs said:

If little Johnny gets Covid while onboard, I would imagine he would rather be at home sick?

I would delay their trip of a lifetime til the world is in a calmer state, when he can fully enjoy all cruising has to offer, and be in a safer environment should he get sick.

If Little Johnny gets detectable COVID while onboard the cruise ends early for the entire family and potentially close contacts.  Even if Little Johnny is not sick to any extent.

[3Shelaghs]

26 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

If Little Johnny gets detectable COVID while onboard the cruise ends early for the entire family and potentially close contacts.  Even if Little Johnny is not sick to any extent.

Yep. 

I wonder what the magic number of positives onboard is, when they turn the ship around to home port??

[Babr]

3 minutes ago, 3Shelaghs said:

Yep. 

I wonder what the magic number of positives onboard is, when they turn the ship around to home port??

For test cruises it was 1.5%. I don’t know if they are using the same standard now.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, Babr said:

For test cruises it was 1.5%. I don’t know if they are using the same standard now.

They will never get to that number because at most 5% unvaccinated are the only ones being tested on board.

[mom says]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

They will never get to that number because at most 5% unvaccinated are the only ones being tested on board.

Never say never. Even IF only the unvaxxed are tested, if some test positive, then everyone in their party and all close contacts are tested. If any of THOSE are positive, then everyone in THEIR party and all close contacts are tested. So even with only the unvaxxed tested to start, it would be statistically possible. But not probable.

[schittenden]

I think there is some overestimating of the number of unvaccinated passengers on board.  The maximum is 5%, but it may not be that high. Indeed, for the cruises outside of Florida, where starting August 1, every passenger age 12 and over must be fully vaccinated, I would be surprised if there are more than a few dozen children under 12 who are not vaccinated.  They also have to be tested before boarding, so the odds of them being infected are low (not zero, but low).  Assuming 50% capacity, that would be about 1,100 passengers on the Millie.  That would be closer to 2% unvaccinated passengers.  Statistically, it's probably safer for kids to be in that environment than it would be for them to be going out in public regularly for meals, shopping, movies, etc. given that even in high vaccination states the vaccinated population is much smaller.  

 

Although it's true that all of the deaths in Maryland in June were unvaccinated, I don't think any of them were under the age of 20.  Only 3 deaths have been in children under 10, and I think that number has been unchanged for sometime.  Each death of a child is an immense tragedy.  But given that children spent much of 2021 in classrooms with a number of unvaccinated children--and for part of the year, unvaccinated adults--the risk of a cruise seems much lower than the actual risks they already face, at least under current protocols.  Florida cruises seem to present a higher risk given the higher number of potentially unvaccinated passengers. Increased capacity limits would also increase the risk.

 

The Canadian study is interesting, but would seem to indicate the risk is even less.  If far more kids have been infected than believed, that would suggests that a larger proportion of them have antibodies that would protect them from future infections (and make it less likely that they would spread COVID to others on board).  The since on children spreading the disease is somewhat mixed with conflicting data points.  But, they should present very, very little risk to the bulk of passengers who are vaccinated.

Edited July 9, 2021 by schittenden

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, mom says said:

Never say never. Even IF only the unvaxxed are tested, if some test positive, then everyone in their party and all close contacts are tested. If any of THOSE are positive, then everyone in THEIR party and all close contacts are tested. So even with only the unvaxxed tested to start, it would be statistically possible. But not probable.

Particularly not probable as one would need to do all this contact tracing and then subsequent rounds of follow up testing on a short 7-day cruise.  

[Nana_w]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:02 AM, Unlvswezel said:

So I have 2 AQ rooms booked for the Edge on 7/24. We have taken our boys (14 and 5) on HAL twice and actually found the passengers to love on our boys. After reading some of the reports I’m worried about bringing my boys on board. We’ve never hit Celeb and I’m worried about the judgement, particularly in a post COVID cruise world. Any Celeb parents able to provide some encouragement?

 

TIA for suggestions and support!

We were on the Edge for the 6/26 sailing and I believe there were around 25 children onboard.  Some wore masks and some did not.  There were many negative comments made by adults when children did not wear masks. I did see one heated argument as people were exiting an elevator. The children I saw were welll behaved and I didn't have an issue with them as I was aware of the possibility when I booked.

My children are all adults now but if they were younger,  then I would not take them on a cruise in this environment. I wouldn't want to expose them to angry adults. That's just my personal opinion. 

[TeeRick]

21 minutes ago, SWKcruise said:

We were on the Edge for the 6/26 sailing and I believe there were around 25 children onboard.  Some wore masks and some did not.  There were many negative comments made by adults when children did not wear masks. I did see one heated argument as people were exiting an elevator. The children I saw were welll behaved and I didn't have an issue with them as I was aware of the possibility when I booked.

My children are all adults now but if they were younger,  then I would not take them on a cruise in this environment. I wouldn't want to expose them to angry adults. That's just my personal opinion. 

I think non-vaccinated children in an elevator without masks is probably a good bet for some controversy on board.

[zitsky]

On 7/7/2021 at 1:57 PM, Orator said:

The reports of the Pfizer effectiveness against the Delta variation might be a game changer for some. 

 

Not sure how you mean?  I've heard it's 67% effective against Delta.  Are you suggesting it's better or worse?

[phoenix_dream]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I think non-vaccinated children in an elevator without masks is probably a good bet for some controversy on board.

As well it should be!  I would never get into a heated argument with anyone over it, but if I saw it happening with any frequency I would report it.  Considering the small number of children onboard I suspect they could figure out who the people were fairly easily.  If unvaccinated people (children or not) are not following procedure they should be warned, and then removed from the ship if they don't comply.  Besides the obvious health issue, they are raising risk factors for the entire sailing.

[schittenden]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

Not sure how you mean?  I've heard it's 67% effective against Delta.  Are you suggesting it's better or worse?

That’s from one Israeli study. Studies out of the UK suggest 90+ percent effective at preventing infection and 94% effective at presenting severe illness. Some researchers have expressed skepticism of the Israeli data because it’s an outlier. 

[Cachecara]

I asked this above, but it was not addressed.  
Currently, children 5 yrs old are not vaccinated. 
Will there be ship board restrictions due to such? 
If so that could enjoyment ( pool, theater, dining venue) 
also, are those restrictions unforced? 

[okiebaugh]

Currently on board with two unvaccinated kids. The kids have been tested three times this week. They are given the wrist band when they test negative and therefore do not have to wear masks and there are no restrictions. Over 16 yrs currently are supposed to wear a mask if they are unvaccinated. I have not seen anyone on board say anything to anyone about wearing masks or not. If you are not comfortable cruising now, don’t. But I am thankful to have the option to bring my kids. 

[schittenden]

52 minutes ago, okiebaugh said:

Currently on board with two unvaccinated kids. The kids have been tested three times this week. They are given the wrist band when they test negative and therefore do not have to wear masks and there are no restrictions. Over 16 yrs currently are supposed to wear a mask if they are unvaccinated. I have not seen anyone on board say anything to anyone about wearing masks or not. If you are not comfortable cruising now, don’t. But I am thankful to have the option to bring my kids. 

Do you know what the Camp at Sea situation is on board?

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, okiebaugh said:

Currently on board with two unvaccinated kids. The kids have been tested three times this week. They are given the wrist band when they test negative and therefore do not have to wear masks and there are no restrictions. Over 16 yrs currently are supposed to wear a mask if they are unvaccinated. I have not seen anyone on board say anything to anyone about wearing masks or not. If you are not comfortable cruising now, don’t. But I am thankful to have the option to bring my kids. 

Thank you for the details.  Do you pay for each test?  So you have paid for 6 tests so far onboard?  That must be pretty expensive.

Edited July 10, 2021 by TeeRick

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

As well it should be!  I would never get into a heated argument with anyone over it, but if I saw it happening with any frequency I would report it.  Considering the small number of children onboard I suspect they could figure out who the people were fairly easily.  If unvaccinated people (children or not) are not following procedure they should be warned, and then removed from the ship if they don't comply.  Besides the obvious health issue, they are raising risk factors for the entire sailing.

If they have been tested continuously and wear a wristband after a negative test result as @okiebaugh told us in post #66, that is all very good and the kids and everybody else should be pretty safe.  They would be following procedure.  But I think maybe not all passengers will know this and it will still lead to unwanted and unwarranted controversy in some cases.  Hopefully the testing rules on board for kids are somehow communicated to everybody.  This makes me feel better anyway about our upcoming cruise on Millennium. I just worry a bit about in port exposure with delta around.

[ipeeinthepool]

On 7/8/2021 at 2:42 PM, TeeRick said:

They will never get to that number because at most 5% unvaccinated are the only ones being tested on board.

 

I hope your correct, but I think the risk is greater than you are suggesting.  I'll suggest that it is likely that the majority of the unvaccinated may come from just a few family groups.  That would make it a lot easier to get to 1.5%.  This may become an issue for Royal which isn't adhering to the 95% limit.

Edited July 10, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I hope your correct, but I think the risk is greater than you are suggesting.  I'll suggest that it is likely that the majority of the unvaccinated may come from just a few family groups.  That would make it a lot easier to get to 1.5%.  This may become an issue for Royal which isn't adhering to the 95% limit.

But doesn't this all go away next week if the CSO goes away (for FL anyway)?

[ipeeinthepool]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

But doesn't this all go away next week if the CSO goes away (for FL anyway)?

 

1.  I think the appeals court will enter the discussion and keep the CSO in effect for now.

2.  I think the 1.5% limit may be part of the port agreements that are in place.  I'm not sure the ports want a ship docking with a possibility of a lot of Covid cases.

3. I think the way it really goes away is when the cruise lines stop random testing.

[Cachecara]

11 hours ago, okiebaugh said:

Currently on board with two unvaccinated kids. The kids have been tested three times this week. They are given the wrist band when they test negative and therefore do not have to wear masks and there are no restrictions. Over 16 yrs currently are supposed to wear a mask if they are unvaccinated. I have not seen anyone on board say anything to anyone about wearing masks or not. If you are not comfortable cruising now, don’t. But I am thankful to have the option to bring my kids. 

Thanks for the info. 

[phoenix_dream]

11 hours ago, okiebaugh said:

Currently on board with two unvaccinated kids. The kids have been tested three times this week. They are given the wrist band when they test negative and therefore do not have to wear masks and there are no restrictions. Over 16 yrs currently are supposed to wear a mask if they are unvaccinated. I have not seen anyone on board say anything to anyone about wearing masks or not. If you are not comfortable cruising now, don’t. But I am thankful to have the option to bring my kids. 

First of all, I should not have to stay away from cruising because the cruise line is not adequately keeping their passengers safe.  I should be able to board with the expectation that reasonable rules (as prescribed by agencies such as the CDC and WHO) will be followed.  I am glad for you that your kids are testing negative.  I hope it stays that way.  I don't like the idea that if they test negative they don't need to wear masks.  It can take 5+ days for the virus to present itself in the system, during which time they could be testing negative even if infected, and spreading the virus to others. 

 

Besides the risk to other passengers and potentially the entire sailing being cancelled or modified, many unvaccinated children are catching the virus.  The majority get mildly ill (if at all) and survive.  Sadly, hundreds do get seriously ill, and some die.  I would never, ever, ever forgive myself if my child were one of those hundreds and died because I had to take a cruise.  It is one thing to risk my own health and potentially life  - it is quite another to risk that of my child.  My opinion.

[phoenix_dream]

14 hours ago, schittenden said:

That’s from one Israeli study. Studies out of the UK suggest 90+ percent effective at preventing infection and 94% effective at presenting severe illness. Some researchers have expressed skepticism of the Israeli data because it’s an outlier. 

I have also heard/read that there are doubts about the study.  Every other study conducted so far indicate that the vaccines are very effective against that variant.